Pauls 16V Turbo Plenum Project

[blkaplan]

Just want to start by thanking Paul for giving me the opportunity to contribute to such an incredible engine and engine install into his incredibly clean 245.

This project was classified since it was started until Carlisle, now I am gonna post up the pics.

This engine is a turbo 16V with Individual throttle bodies, this requires a sealed plenum. The length of the runners put the top of the air horns into the hood so there was going to be some modification required, we decided to make the volume of the box as large as possible inside the allotted work envelope.

of course the box was first designed in CAD and then made its way to a masonite prototype, and then the stainless steel construction of the final item.

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/69887483.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/76870778.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/76878352.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/79429638.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/79429643.jpg

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http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/79398034.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/79398037.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/79428496.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/79428501.jpg


Big thanks to Travis (Mesoam) for the killer installed pics! That guy sure knows his was around a D50

http://www.pbase.com/image/79436964.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/79436965.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/79436966.jpg

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http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/79436969.jpg

[adrianpike]

take that, dolphin!

Did you fab the horns yourself, or source them from somewhere?

edit: I see those messed up heater hoses...

[blkaplan]

take that, dolphin!

Did you fab the horns yourself, or source them from somewhere?


Horns came with the engine, I believe they are made by Jenvey

[242Fast]

2 sets of injectors
O RLY!

very slick!

[Biesey]

that is epic...

[VolvoPunch]

Wow nice craftsman ship. You got skills. :-D

[Tick]

Damn. There'd better be video when this is done. Looks like a good spot for a water to air intercooler. Maybe drop in in place of the plexi for track.

edit - Where's the money shot looking inside?

[BiG_BrIcK_240]

wow!

[TerribleOne]

*yawn*

..just kidding. Good work Rachels brother.

[Yeedogga]

cue boner... that is just beeauutiful

[Aoder1]

wow that looks amazing!

[djecko]

that viewing window is pretty righteous i must admit. :zeeall:

[impulse922]

that viewing window is pretty righteous i must admit. :zeeall:

+1 but whats the reason for it being so ..large?

[blkaplan]

+1 but whats the reason for it being so ..large?

The larger the plenum, the more air thats immediately available for consumption. Its a 2.7 liter motor. It can suck in a lot of air. If it can draw from the box before having to pull from the intercooler it will have better response.

[mikep]

edit - Where's the money shot looking inside?

http://www.pbase.com/mperry/image/79108954.jpg

[Tick]

Slick.

[MrBill]

time to sell to public
edit: but for 8v

[242Fast]

http://www.pbase.com/mperry/image/79108954.jpg





what's peaking out on the bottom? is that one of those "I'm in your plenum, stealing your boost" type things?

[impulse922]

what's peaking out on the bottom? is that one of those "I'm in your plenum, stealing your boost" type things?

naw, thats were the pcv hose goes, ala poi

[Grant Borman]

Thats um........interesting.

Cheers,

Grant

[Gene_GaTech]

so um...that thing about the air in the box deal.....i'm not so sure i buy it. In fact, if the box is too big you'll get stagnation(at least the air WILL slow down) and thats not good for anyone. Care to elaborate and discuss?

[n xntrx volvo]

.

[blkaplan]

why not put the bov on the plenum? looks pretty. whats the size on the plenum and tb's? also why did you mount the inj on the bottom instead of side by side (each pointing down a runner)?

That was discussed but the idea was brought up too late in the game to make it mounted there feasible. Its also less weight on the intake studs if the bov is on the cold side pipe.

side by side? :roll: care to elaborate? both injectors fire down the intake pointing into the runners.

[blkaplan]

so um...that thing about the air in the box deal.....i'm not so sure i buy it. In fact, if the box is too big you'll get stagnation(at least the air WILL slow down) and thats not good for anyone. Care to elaborate and discuss?

Stop reading text books, Its not a 50 L box. Theres no way it would stall or become stagnant.

[Gene_GaTech]

Stop reading text books, Its not a 50 L box. Theres no way it would stall or become stagnant.

http://smiliesftw.com/x/kekekegay.gif jokes on you, I damn near never read (past tense) my text books. But the point is if you say the box is bigger so you don't have to pull air from the intercooler, that means you are already assuming the air is near motionless. In fact if the air is moving you have a slightly less change in inertia of the charged air as the piston pulls it down. Which, DUH, means a tiny bit less work the the engine will have to waste on induction.

So i think that it really doesn't matter how large (in limits) you built the box. I was just pointing out the strangeness of your comment.

[Wagner]

It has a cool industrial look about it. I like it.

But why was it made out of stainless steel and not aluminum? Just for appearance's sake?

[blkaplan]

http://smiliesftw.com/x/kekekegay.gif jokes on you, I damn near never read (past tense) my text books. But the point is if you say the box is bigger so you don't have to pull air from the intercooler, that means you are already assuming the air is near motionless. In fact if the air is moving you have a slightly less change in inertia of the charged air as the piston pulls it down. Which, DUH, means a tiny bit less work the the engine will have to waste on induction.

So i think that it really doesn't matter how large (in limits) you built the box. I was just pointing out the strangeness of your comment.

No, I AM NOT ASSUMING THE AIR IS MOTIONLESS. An engine never stops pulling air, if it did it would stall.

The only thing strange is the fact that putting on a larger exhaust doesn't hurt performance :roll:

[blkaplan]

It has a cool industrial look about it. I like it.

But why was it made out of stainless steel and not aluminum? Just for appearance's sake?

We wanted to maximize the internal volume compared to the outside area. If it were aluminum it would have to be much thicker to be the same strength. Plus,,, the SS structure will stand up to boost much better in thinner sections as it is much less prone to cracking when it flexes then aluminum.

[Gene_GaTech]

No, I AM NOT ASSUMING THE AIR IS MOTIONLESS. An engine never stops pulling air, if it did it would stall.

The only thing strange is the fact that putting on a larger exhaust doesn't hurt performance :roll:
I'm becoming more and more convinced you're not actually designing the parts you are selling.

What does exhaust flow velocity have ANYTHING to do with building a gigantic intake plenum?

[blkaplan]

I'm becoming more and more convinced you're not actually designing the parts you are selling.

What does exhaust flow velocity have ANYTHING to do with building a gigantic intake plenum?

I will let poik handle this response.

[Gene_GaTech]

I will let poik handle this response.

so no explanation? just dismissal?

[n xntrx volvo]

.

[Poik]

You do know that when ITBs are used in performance applications that are not boosted, no plenum is even used, so that it will have a really really big "plenum" volume of air readily available? Will make throttle response a lot better, same with going to a bigger throttle body.

Also, Ben put really big exhaust on my car and I lost top end, don't buy exhaust from him!

[blkaplan]

:roll: isn't called for here ben.
two sets, mounted on top. each pointed on the center points of the oval. that way each one points down each "port" in the head (a 16v splits towards each valve).
currently the secondary (i assume thats what the bottoms are) do point to a runner, but its the top of the manifold runner. Not even directing spray down a port. It'll work, but its not ideal.
what are the sizes btw?

how in the hell are you gonna package 2 fuel rails on the top, just think about where you would put everything... are these magical injectors with wireless fuel rails? Even if you could package them you ruin the placement of the first rail by trying to have them both.

when the 2nd rail is needed there is going to be so much air moving through the runner that it really doesn't matter where its spraying as long as its close to the correct direction.

[blkaplan]

Oh and btw, this motor will make more hp then all of the cars that xntrx and gene owned combined.

[n xntrx volvo]

.

[blkaplan]

ok:roll:
why have 2 rails? this isnt mechanical injection.

You should direct your expert questions to Unitek, they are the ones that built this engine.

I am sure you know much better then they do...

[Gene_GaTech]

Oh and btw, this motor will make more hp then all of the cars that xntrx and gene owned combined.
:roll::roll:



















:rofl::rofl:

[Gene_GaTech]

hey kaplan why are you so mad and defensive? You did beautiful work. We're just asking why you made certain engineering decisions, and asking you to back those up with solid theory.


BTW my volvo's mad at you.

[n xntrx volvo]

.

[blkaplan]

The questions are not directed at the long block, just the intake. Which your thread makes people assume that you are the builder and mastermind of.
I'm not replying anymore, your head is getting bigger then that plenum. To the point so that us idiots aren't allowed to speak to you unless showering you with praise.

Plenum does not equal Intake, Plenum is just the airbox that bolts to the airhorns.......

Sorry I assumed you had a working vocabulary of performance parts.

[Gene_GaTech]

The questions are not directed at the long block, just the intake. Which your thread makes people assume that you are the builder and mastermind of.
I'm not replying anymore, your head is getting bigger then that plenum. To the point so that us idiots aren't allowed to speak to you unless showering you with praise.
http://smiliesftw.com/x/kekekegay.gif

[adrianpike]

so um...that thing about the air in the box deal.....i'm not so sure i buy it. In fact, if the box is too big you'll get stagnation(at least the air WILL slow down) and thats not good for anyone. Care to elaborate and discuss?

GODDAMNIT YOU FOOLS DOO TEH FAWKING MATTTHSSSSS

2.7L motor, 3000rpm (granny shifting, not double clutching, blah blah blah). 4 cylinder, 4 stroke, so one cylinder's always going to be huffing every revolution. Let's be sissies and assume a PR of 1, because we're sissies like me and don't have the cash or time to make our junk huff snail. ASSume 75% VE, again just to prove a fawkin point.

2.7L * 3000 * .75 = 6075L/min. (amirite? i may be inebriated, so my maths may be off)
skeet skeet that's a lot of air. You're going to need a BIG-ass boxen for some stagnations.

really the only downside of a big-ass plenum is that of packaging, unless we're talking about using an air bladder in the back of a wagon or something... :e-shrug:

[superboosted]

Looks fawkin good Mr.Triangles(like usual)...The window is awesome!How's that motor sound?Any dyno #'s to shut down the endless supply of haterade?:roll:

[blkaplan]

Looks fawkin good Mr.Triangles(like usual)...The window is awesome!How's that motor sound?Any dyno #'s to shut down the endless supply of haterade?:roll:

I will let Paul decide if he wants to post dyno numbers or not.

[suterman]

we decided to make the volume of the box as large as possible inside the allotted work envelope.

Or to use the proper word, gap.

Horns came with the engine, I believe they are made by Jenvey

They are about 2 miles from where I sit. (I went out with his daughter):)

Oh and, I like the work.:-D

[Johann]

I think it is a nice setup. The only down in this would be the usage of SS IMO. Just a personal between the ears thing. "Intake alloy, exhaust SS"

For the injector placement, basically you could get away with one injector per runner.
If I would have used two I would have used one at the head and one outside in front of the stack. But since the Jenvey's can be had with 2 injector connections why reinvent the wheel.

[Johann]

The airbox I made for my 850 ITB's setup,

http://www.swededemon.com/images/SDM/shots/engine/airbox-v1-1.jpg

http://www.swededemon.com/images/SDM/shots/engine/airbox-v1-2.jpg

2 mm alloy sheet welded to a 5 mm alloy plate mounting frame which is bolted to a 5 mm alloy base plate .

http://www.swededemon.com/images/SDM/shots/engine/manifold/idlemod.jpg

There is only one thing killing such a construction and that is vibration. (I'm not talking about my lousy welding... :oogle: )

[blkaplan]

I think it is a nice setup. The only down in this would be the usage of SS IMO. Just a personal between the ears thing. "Intake alloy, exhaust SS"

For the injector placement, basically you could get away with one injector per runner.
If I would have used two I would have used one at the head and one outside in front of the stack. But since the Jenvey's can be had with 2 injector connections why reinvent the wheel.

Johann, I know that typically "alloy" is used on intake,,,,, and you did know that stainless steel is an alloy also :-P, correct?

But on a more serious note, I would think if you looked at your setup you might want to consider a SS construction over aluminum for overall performance. I say this because with your setup the radiator blows directly on your intake plenum, and as we all know heat = bad. Aluminum transfers heat much more efficiently then Stainless steel does, there fore your intake as acting as a heat sink versus a heat shield which stainless promotes.


Just a thought,,,, b. . . n.. . .. e.... . .

[ferret]

So we can expect a sup $1000 version for the b230 in... a month? :oogle:

Ya'll are always making cool stuff :nod:

[blkaplan]

So we can expect a sup $1000 version for the b230 in... a month? :oogle:

Ya'll are always making cool stuff :nod:


ITB's and a plenum for under 1k, no way in hell. Custom airbox w/ nice runners and a real plenum... maybe ;-)

</ferret>

[Yea, Right]

:-p :-p :-p :-p :-p

[ferret]

ITB's and a plenum for under 1k, no way in hell. Custom airbox w/ nice runners and a real plenum... maybe ;-)

</ferret>

:rofl: Trust me, I'm kiddin

Needs more soundbites

[Homer]

Sorry I assumed you had a working vocabulary of performance parts.

Picking nits here, but a plenum is not always a performance part. Don't stock cars have them;-) :-P
Jenvey does our TB every year on the FSAE car. They are good people.

[blkaplan]

Picking nits here, but a plenum is not always a performance part. Don't stock cars have them;-) :-P
Jenvey does our TB every year on the FSAE car. They are good people.

Don't you have a table to be making :-P

[Alex Buchka]

ITB's and a plenum for under 1k, no way in hell. Custom airbox w/ nice runners and a real plenum... maybe ;-)



I read this and I thought the price was pretty damn ridiculous. Then I realized you basically can't do anything for yourself and have to sub everything out. No wonder...

[blkaplan]

I read this and I thought the price was pretty damn ridiculous. Then I realized you basically can't do anything for yourself and have to sub everything out. No wonder...

You shouldn't comment on things you know nothing about.

[Johann]

But on a more serious note, I would think if you looked at your setup you might want to consider a SS construction over aluminum for overall performance. I say this because with your setup the radiator blows directly on your intake plenum, and as we all know heat = bad. Aluminum transfers heat much more efficiently then Stainless steel does, there fore your intake as acting as a heat sink versus a heat shield which stainless promotes.


Just a thought,,,, b. . . n.. . .. e.... . .

You might reconsider your theory. :pat: The temp readings confirm this. :nod:

[adrianpike]

I read this and I thought the price was pretty damn ridiculous. Then I realized you basically can't do anything for yourself and have to sub everything out. No wonder...

You might want to look up the prices on ITBs and bitchin' horns.

edit: or you could reinvent the wheel and build them yourself, and have to charge *more*

[NChoy]

Ignore the naysayers Ben, you know you got mad skills. Just adopt an elitist attitude and tell them to go screw themselves. Works over here on the "left" coast...

So I'm assuming the plenum cleared the hood (or did Paul drive to Carlisle with the hood up?)

And so now you're free to get working on the V70R rear shock solution? 142 suspension parts? (on the 142 stuff you now have two people here in Portland waiting for you... Marc and I are building "parallel" 142 projects).

[shaved240]

I read this and I thought the price was pretty damn ridiculous. Then I realized you basically can't do anything for yourself and have to sub everything out. No wonder...

hahaha

[NC244GLT]

Ben....fix your website!!

[Grant Borman]

BNE i hope you don't take this as anything more than constructive criticism.

1. Your welding could use some help. Parts look undercut while other parts look like you exposed them to to much heat and/or not enough shielding gas. I hope you back purged also.

2. When you are building a performance part usually a good moto to go buy is K.I.S.S. Windows to look at the pretty intake bellmouths are ok on show cars but in a boosted application i see a boost leak nightmare. I hope for the owners sake the ecu is running in speed density.

3. I understand how important it is for a company to keep a certaint style when they build something. Unfortunately you don't build bridges so the triangle thing is a little over done. Its neat to be known for triangles but then again so is Wankel.........

4. I can understand how excited one can get bout getting a new piece of equipment like a cnc plasma cutter but every part you make utilizes it from what i can tell. You are really limiting yourself by trying to cut EVERYTHING on it. When i look at your intake manifold it looks like some back hills fab job you would see on HomeMadeTurbo.com. Sometimes just because you can make something some way doesn't mean you should. Sometimes i feel people are afraid to make something that uses other design elements that other people have used for fear of "copying" somone but just remember a great man borrows ideas where as a genius steals.

5. I don't want to tell you how to run your business but it is a good idea not tell somone they are wrong. When you are running a business you can not tell customers (past/present/future) that they are incorrect or wrong unless its a safety reason. Instead of a snide remark about how somone intake manifold is inferior for using aluminum maybe it would have been a better idea to say "you know thats an avenue we may try next time" Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. -Abraham Lincoln

No need to reply just remember this for future reference. The more excited fabricators we can have in the Volvo community the better!

Good Luck & Cheers,

Grant

[blkaplan]

Grant, paul took a file to some of the welds before I could stop him. It helps to give the apperance of undercut etc, most of the box was welded without filler rod.

I added the window per request of paul, the customer gets what the customer wants. With this style installation you need an opening regardless to attach the airhorns so it was a risk either way. All the flat bolted services are gasketed and we use sealing washers on the bolt heads. It should have no problem holding boost.

I won't comment on the rest as they are style comments and to each his own.

BNE i hope you don't take this as anything more than constructive criticism.

1. Your welding could use some help. Parts look undercut while other parts look like you exposed them to to much heat and/or not enough shielding gas. I hope you back purged also.

2. When you are building a performance part usually a good moto to go buy is K.I.S.S. Windows to look at the pretty intake bellmouths are ok on show cars but in a boosted application i see a boost leak nightmare. I hope for the owners sake the ecu is running in speed density.

3. I understand how important it is for a company to keep a certaint style when they build something. Unfortunately you don't build bridges so the triangle thing is a little over done. Its neat to be known for triangles but then again so is Wankel.........

4. I can understand how excited one can get bout getting a new piece of equipment like a cnc plasma cutter but every part you make utilizes it from what i can tell. You are really limiting yourself by trying to cut EVERYTHING on it. When i look at your intake manifold it looks like some back hills fab job you would see on HomeMadeTurbo.com. Sometimes just because you can make something some way doesn't mean you should. Sometimes i feel people are afraid to make something that uses other design elements that other people have used for fear of "copying" somone but just remember a great man borrows ideas where as a genius steals.

5. I don't want to tell you how to run your business but it is a good idea not tell somone they are wrong. When you are running a business you can not tell customers (past/present/future) that they are incorrect or wrong unless its a safety reason. Instead of a snide remark about how somone intake manifold is inferior for using aluminum maybe it would have been a better idea to say "you know thats an avenue we may try next time" Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. -Abraham Lincoln

No need to reply just remember this for future reference. The more excited fabricators we can have in the Volvo community the better!

Good Luck & Cheers,

Grant

[blkaplan]

You might reconsider your theory. :pat: The temp readings confirm this. :nod:

Which part of my theory? SS having a lower thermal transfer coefficient then aluminum?

Or its use in the performance application?

You have tried both? back to back on the same car? Care to post your findings? Where did you take temps?

[Johann]

Which part of my theory? SS having a lower thermal transfer coefficient then aluminum?

Or its use in the performance application?

You have tried both? back to back on the same car? Care to post your findings? Where did you take temps?


I only tried Aluminium on this car with similar thoughts about the heat like mentioned in your post. But it shows that the IAT's are at ambient all the time, no fluctuation when the fan is working. Only when idling it raises some but comes down to the correct temp immediately once air is being moved.
This also because the airbox is situated in an open "cold" airstream. My concerns where more about the effectiveness of the radiator in this case but it does it's thing like it should.

My experience with SS is that it builds up heat, it holds heat. It will slowly take over the heat from for example the engine itself and once it is in it will take a long time to come down to surroundig temps like Aluminium does. Aluminium could show some heat fluctuation when the car is idling, when moving it will come down immediately.
The heat shield remark is correct when used as a shield, a separate layer not in full contact with the object it needs to protect. When build up as a bridge it will exchange heat just like the Aluminium. Slower but eventually it will be worse.

But you are probably right. Many cars use SS as intake material.

[MikeHardy]

what's with all the sillyness about the injector placement.

if individual throttles with twin injectors in that placement didn't work like that jenvey wouldn't build them like that.

[RvolvoR]

The only thing strange is the fact that putting on a larger exhaust doesn't hurt performance :roll:

engine, air pump....

[blkaplan]

I only tried Aluminium on this car with similar thoughts about the heat like mentioned in your post. But it shows that the IAT's are at ambient all the time, no fluctuation when the fan is working. Only when idling it raises some but comes down to the correct temp immediately once air is being moved.
This also because the airbox is situated in an open "cold" airstream. My concerns where more about the effectiveness of the radiator in this case but it does it's thing like it should.

My experience with SS is that it builds up heat, it holds heat. It will slowly take over the heat from for example the engine itself and once it is in it will take a long time to come down to surroundig temps like Aluminium does. Aluminium could show some heat fluctuation when the car is idling, when moving it will come down immediately.
The heat shield remark is correct when used as a shield, a separate layer not in full contact with the object it needs to protect. When build up as a bridge it will exchange heat just like the Aluminium. Slower but eventually it will be worse.

But you are probably right. Many cars use SS as intake material.


Where is your temp sensor mounted?

You theory of the SS heat soaking is flawed IMO. If you apply the same experience you observed on your aluminum plenum... You stated that it gets some heat soak @ idle and then quickly goes to ambient as the car is driving. That might have something to do with the 1000's of liters of air getting sucked from the fresh air through your aluminum plenum. This effect cools much more effectively then a hot relatively stagnant engine bay, hence the reason your car shows ambient once moving.

The effect will be very similar on the SS except it will react much slower, as you stated. But this means if you compare the time to driving and the time to idling it will maintain a lower temperature as the material acts as a buffer as compared to aluminum.

food for thought.

[spongemonster]

Firstly wow that is some very very nice work. Secondly people wtf is wrong with you? We have someone making some crazy stuff that the majority of people on this board will never be able to do themselves and all we can do is tell them what they did wrong. Then we tell him to not tell us we're wrong if we tell him he's wrong? I think this is a case of STFU if you can't say something nice or at least offer slightly more constructive criticism. I'm sure he's going to tear it all out and re-do it in aluminum any second.

I see altogether too much of this hahaha you're an idiot cause I think you did something wrong stuff on here. Kinda like someone with little to no university education looking at an engineer's technical drawings and going hahaha stupid engineer you spelled something wrong.

Keep up the good work with all those triangles and I can understand how it feels to create something of beauty only to be told in an e-thugish way that it's horrible.

[John V, outside agitator]

Plenum does not equal Intake, Plenum is just the airbox that bolts to the airhorns.......

Sorry I assumed you had a working vocabulary of performance parts.

Geeeeez ben, when you get snippy about terms then you open yourself to MORE criticism.

I thought the plenum, when referring to automotive parts and not politics was the LOG like portion of an intake manifold off of which all the runners going out to the cylinders.
I thought a box bolted to a flange around the airhorns was a "box".
Sometimes referred to as an
"airbox".

[John V, outside agitator]

ITB's and a plenum for under 1k, no way in hell. Custom airbox w/ nice runners and a real plenum... maybe ;-)

</ferret>

Easy.

[impulse922]

So I'm assuming the plenum cleared the hood (or did Paul drive to Carlisle with the hood up?)

look at the carlisle pics, there is an enormous bulge in the hood

[blkaplan]

look at the carlisle pics, there is an enormous bulge in the hood


he saw all the stuff in person in progress when he was visiting. but yes it cleared nick.

[blkaplan]

Geeeeez ben, when you get snippy about terms then you open yourself to MORE criticism.

I thought the plenum, when referring to automotive parts and not politics was the LOG like portion of an intake manifold off of which all the runners going out to the cylinders.
I thought a box bolted to a flange around the airhorns was a "box".
Sometimes referred to as an
"airbox".

Airbox is the plenum is this application. Its the same thing. But neither word includes fuel injector positioning

[John V, outside agitator]

how in the hell are you gonna package 2 fuel rails on the top, just think about where you would put everything... are these magical injectors with wireless fuel rails? Even if you could package them you ruin the placement of the first rail by trying to have them both.

when the 2nd rail is needed there is going to be so much air moving through the runner that it really doesn't matter where its spraying as long as its close to the correct direction.

Uh I don't know, but somehow those fools at Ford managed to:

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i124/rwsrally/escort_wrc/escort_wrc_11.jpg


but that was the second try at 2 per way back in '97.
The 1st time one was in the normal place and the other was in the plenum cover aimed right down the center of the port. That was in 87.

[Matt Dupuis]

They did it again with the 5.4 litre Ford GT engine (2 injectors per cylinder sharing the same rail).

[blkaplan]

Maybe you guys should right Jenvey a letter and explain to them why their product sucks. I am sure they will be interested hear your highly valued opinions.

[Mueller]

Maybe you guys should right Jenvey a letter and explain to them why their product sucks. I am sure they will be interested hear your highly valued opinions.

I see nothing wrong with the Jenvey approach, it makes perfect sense as far as making a product that can fit many applications and have less tooling as well.....what people (JohnV) are overlooking is that Jenvey is making that TB for multiple applications, single inlet valve as well as dual inlet valves, in order to make a dual injector setup like the Ford unit (2 inlet valves), a new casting would have to made which would be more vehicle specific and not as "universal"...

what I would like to know is if Jenvey sells that TB body but with only one injector hole milled out, what "side" of the shaft would it be on and how much of a differance would it make at different throttle openings (obviously they would be equal at WOT)

all in all I like the intake assembly....

[blkaplan]

I see nothing wrong with the Jenvey approach, it makes perfect sense as far as making a product that can fit many applications and have less tooling as well.....what people (JohnV) are overlooking is that Jenvey is making that TB for multiple applications, single inlet valve as well as dual inlet valves, in order to make a dual injector setup like the Ford unit (2 inlet valves), a new casting would have to made which would be more vehicle specific and not as "universal"...

what I would like to know is if Jenvey sells that TB body but with only one injector hole milled out, what "side" of the shaft would it be on and how much of a differance would it make at different throttle openings (obviously they would be equal at WOT)

all in all I like the intake assembly....


I bet they sell them with either only one hole machined or one hole cast...

[Homer]

Holy crap ben . Chill out. You need to work on learning to accept criticism more gracefully.

[RvolvoR]

Easy.

well, unless he does overmarkup on the materials like cost x4

[RvolvoR]

Holy crap ben . Chill out. You need to work on learning to accept criticism more gracefully.

+1, just because you prefer to do it a certain way doest mean its the "right" or "best" way to do it, no need to be a dick about it

[Johann]

what I would like to know is if Jenvey sells that TB body but with only one injector hole milled out, what "side" of the shaft would it be on.

No hole,
http://www.jenvey.co.uk/drawings/SF0_bbw.gif

one hole
http://www.jenvey.co.uk/Imgs/Prods/SFE1_m.jpg


or two holes.
http://www.jenvey.co.uk/Imgs/Prods/SFE2_m.jpg

[blkaplan]

Holy crap ben . Chill out. You need to work on learning to accept criticism more gracefully.

So far most of criticism in the thread is of issues i had nothing to deal with (the design and packaging of the ITBS)

[qwkswede]

What size are the bores on those throttles? When I first saw the pictures, I thought they were Motorcycle throttle bodies. I had a plan a while back to try something similar with Suzuki throttles. These are nicer for car use though. I have never seen them before. The problem with the motorcycle ones are that they are all joined on a single aluminum chunk, and may not line up with the cylinders so nicely.

Very cool work Ben and Paul. Its good to see Unitek's name still is around. They really build some cool motors.

[WheyDey]

lotsa hate. GAY.

good work ben.

[Tuff240]

Why doesn't it fit under the hood? Customer preference?

[pwschuh]

Why doesn't it fit under the hood? Customer preference?

Follow link in B274FT thread to photos. Kind of shows why.

[Tuff240]

Follow link in B274FT thread to photos. Kind of shows why.I've seen several 16v's in 240's with custom intake manifolds, yours is one of 2 that went with a bulge in the hood (other being the silver "Be4You" 242). From an appearance standpoint, I would never do that to a 27k mile car, but then again it's not mine and to each their own.

I just hope you saved the original hood and used a spare hood in case you ever want to change back.

Edit: Bulge reminds me of the 60's salt flats racers trying to keep the bodywork tight to the motor but still streamlined. Looks out of place on a 245 imo.

[blkaplan]

I've seen several 16v's in 240's with custom intake manifolds, yours is one of 2 that went with a bulge in the hood (other being the silver "Be4You" 242). From an appearance standpoint, I would never do that to a 27k mile car, but then again it's not mine and to each their own.

I just hope you saved the original hood and used a spare hood in case you ever want to change back.

Edit: Bulge reminds me of the 60's salt flats racers trying to keep the bodywork tight to the motor but still streamlined. Looks out of place on a 245 imo.

It is the original hood, good condition metal is a lot easier to find then good condition rubber seals and trim.

The paint on this hood looks better then factory, it was done very nicely.

The length of the runners puts the runners into the hood supports. Without choking the airhorns by having a plenum with no area for flow around the top modification is necessary. Just one of those things when you don't want to compromise on the engine package... Long straight runners make for an awesome power band...

[Tuff240]

Long straight runners make for an awesome power band...I'd rather run another pound of boost than have that big nasty bulge right in my line of sight.

I'm sorry Paul, I have always liked you and admired the fact that you actually spend the money and try to do things the best way you think possible, but I can't keep this to myself anymore... your car has turned from a black beauty to some sort of a Frankenstein project from hell.

I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so as long as you think it looks good just ignore me. Me and most everyone here are jealous of the parts you have assembled, the execution is a love it or hate it affair.

(Yes, coming from the guy that runs big, heavy and chromed wheels that most Volvo enthusiasts here hate.)

[pwschuh]

Nothing to be sorry about. I have modified and removed many things from this car and I saved none of them except the original speedo cluster, since it shows the original miles. If I was modifying a 1929 Bugatti, that might be an issue, but we're talking about a 1984 Volvo station wagon that will never be worth the money I spent on it. I am certain that I would never want to change anything back. I am not doing this to please anyone's tastes but mine own and form follows function in my mind.

[TerribleOne]

Generally speaking women like to choose fashion over function, and men choose function over fashion right??
I guess that's why we all drive Volvos..

[740ATL]

magnum opus.

Nicely done Paul.

[spongemonster]

Sorry to thread jack but what were you saying about motorcycle throttle bodies? The stockers are joined but that's nothing a little saw work can't take care of considering they're not totally cast out of a giant block of aluminum. They have little bars connecting them. Yay sawzalls I mean umm proper machining. http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Hayabusa/Hayabusa_fuel%20injection%20kits.htm
That's another option for you guys who are absolutely drooling over this project like I am. I want more pics and videos... Well maybe not cause then I'll get too worked up and try to build up a car even an eighth as cool that I really don't have the budget for.

Thanks for sharing an awesome car.

[sparks]

http://www.webcon.co.uk/alpha/throttlebody_price_list.htm