GM Alternator Swap

[boostdemon]

By: Shane Mayall

Description: Yes, there IS a way to get more than 70 amps to power your Brick! You heard it right! Start with 100 amps, or if you really need more juice, you can get a whopping 140 amps.

http://www.turbobricks.com/mods.php?content=art0010

[240Psycho]

towards the end of the article it mentions something about a ford regulator. What is he refering too?

[stylngle2003]

maybe somehting like Ipd's adjustable regulator?

[765tiME]

Its mentioned in the 700/900 FAQ...

[240Psycho]

shouldnt be a problem with a 240 install should it? I bought a reman 100 amp unit im tired of going through volvo units.

The voltage regulator on my old 100 amp volvo unit was toast, too late to fix it i already broke 3 blades trying to get the pulley off.

The Gm alt seems like a direct fit except for a few spots of grinding and a 4 prong terminal

The connections on the gm:

phase connection: this terminal is used to send a signal to a relay or frequency sensing tachometer. There may not be a wire leading to this terminal.

Indicator lamp: When used, this terminal is connected to the vehicles indicator lamp. A 300 to 500 ohm resistor is connected across the lamp to provide a "start charging" signal if the lamp burns out.

Ignition Terminal: When used, this terminal is connected to the vehicles ignition switch.

Sense battery voltage: When used, this terminal provides the alternator with a precise battery voltage reading.

what needs to be hooked up?

thanks
~Kyle

[The Aspirator]

Somebody take pics if they do this, I'm in need of moar amps too.

[Matt Dupuis]

I've been having great success with the Ford 3G alternator, as found in the late '80s/early 90s 3.3 litre Sable/Taurus. 135 amps, internally regulated, 2 wire hookup, and there are plenty of v-belt pullies that work with it. Got one on my 244 and one on my 765, and we're putting one on Dale's 122.

[The Aspirator]

Matt my friend.
U.
R.
Awesome.

Looks like I need to go junkyardin.

[240Psycho]

http://www.alternatorparts.com/cs130_sbpage1.htm
this website tells you everything you need to know about the gm alternator

[Renny_D]

I've been having great success with the Ford 3G alternator, as found in the late '80s/early 90s 3.3 litre Sable/Taurus. 135 amps, internally regulated, 2 wire hookup, and there are plenty of v-belt pullies that work with it. Got one on my 244 and one on my 765, and we're putting one on Dale's 122.

Got pics and notes on what needed to be done? I need more amps aswell.

Thanks
Renny

[holtzboy]

Renny, I am in the process of installing a 240 amp GM alternator i bought from a member on here awhile ago. Its different than the 3G one shown above but it might have some similar wiring to it. You can check my thread on it here:

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=74477.

Also I asked about wiring on the 'other' Volvo forum and got some responses:

http://brickboard.com/RWD/index.htm?id=1079278

Hope this info helps some.

[Renny_D]

Renny, I am in the process of installing a 240 amp GM alternator i bought from a member on here awhile ago. Its different than the 3G one shown above but it might have some similar wiring to it. You can check my thread on it here:

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=74477.

Also I asked about wiring on the 'other' Volvo forum and got some responses:

http://brickboard.com/RWD/index.htm?id=1079278

Hope this info helps some.

Holy crap 240 amp, well you'll be ready for a monster stereo system. Lemme know how it goes.

I'd love to find a single wire high output alternator so that I can run highbeams, wipers, and stereo and still roll the windows up and down.

Thanks
Renny

[dalek]

I am confused: I have in my 94 Jetta a 90A Bosch Alternator. We tested it (good thing to be friends with the shop owner) with the engine running and we were getting 120A at 3500RPM. Food for thought.

[240Psycho]

if you ever buy an alternator new. it will come with a spec sheet on it. My 100 amp gm alt goes as high as 120 amp and as low as 95. average is 105amps

the amps increase as the rpms do,

on another note, the gm alternator wasn't too hard to install and it works great.

[holtzboy]

Alright now I guess I will need some assistance with the wiring as well. I thought I had it all figured out but I am getting crazy voltage dropping with my GM 240 amp alternator. The belt is nice and tight and I am not getting any squeeling. The alt is almost identical to the back of this one:

http://www.jacqui-of-all-trades.com/shane/volvo/242ti/alternator/alt_diagram.jpg

This is how I wired it up, for the S Terminal, I just connected it to the alternator output stud, L terminal went to the small red wire for the dummy gauge light, and the IG Terminal went to the available pin 15 on my coil. With this setup the dash light comes on when the ignition is in the accessory position and when the car is started it turns off. Voltage starts out at 14.5v but then after 30 seconds or so it drops down to around 13.8 and hovers in the mid to high 13s. If I rev it up it will goto 14.5v again but then go right back down to the 13s. I still have the stock red power wire from the starter going to the alt + stud as well as a short 4 gauge wire going to the battery positive terminal. For the alternator ground wire, its a 4 gauge cable thats only 5" long and bolts to the fender where I sanded off the paint.

I have an 80 amp alternator in my 244DL with the same type of upgraded wiring and the voltage always stays at 14.4v and never drops below 14 unless I am blasting my stereo which even then will only go down to about 13.6v. So I am not sure if I screwed up the wiring to the three terminals on the back of the GM alternator or whats going on. I might throw the stock 55 amp on to see what kind of voltage readings it gets. Any hints or suggestions would be awesome! Thanks.

EDIT: Might make a big difference but the voltage regulator is internal right? If I am supposed to hook up an external one that'll help the voltage problems just a wee bit.

[Renny_D]

Have you tried turning things on to increase the load and see what the Alternator then does. The 120 amp in my suburban will sorta go into idle if the battery is full and their is no load on it. This may just be how the GM voltage regulator works.

I'm interested in doing this swap also just to get enough voltage to run everything and not have to worry.

Thanks
Renny

[The Aspirator]

For what it's worth I've had my S80 fan in for a few days now with a stock 70 amp alt. At cold idle when the car gets up to ~160* and the fan turns on, there's only a slight stumble in the idle then it's fine. I can lower both power windows with the fan on, while driving, with the cd player going (basic unit, 2 speakers) with no ill effects. Although my problem is that my battery doesn't hold a base charge so when I shut the car off I usually have to jump it :rofl:. Probably not too good for the alt, but whatever.

[holtzboy]

It is kind of weird, on a cold startup of my car the voltage will stay at 14.5 volts until it gets warmed up then it will start to fluctuate. Without anything on the fluctuation will be from 14.0 - 14.5 and when I turn accessories on it will be from 13.7 +. This only happens at an idle and if I rev it up at all the voltage will goto 14.5 and stay there. I asked someone who did the swap and he said that he ran into the same problems so he got a smaller pulley for the alt so it would spin faster at idle and keep the voltage up. It is only a small annoyance because once I get going and am not idling it will be fine.

[Renny_D]

Unless you need it at Idle I wouldn't worry about it. As long as off Idle you're getting voltage.

Thanks
Renny

[n xntrx volvo]

fyi, b21/b23 based pentas are set up for a gm alt factory. just grab the bracket like i did.

[240Psycho]

my gm 100 amp doesnt charge much better then my 200k miles volvo 100 amp. is a 10 gauge ground too small?

oh and holtzboy you may need a smaller pulley for the alt. the serpentine belt pulley that came with my gm alt was a lot smaller then the standard volvo pulley

[swedishiron.com]

fyi, b21/b23 based pentas are set up for a gm alt factory. just grab the bracket like i did.

Where did you get it and how much did you pay?
All the places I've contacted want $50 or more for this simple piece of metal...

JD

[AustVolvo]

Well I just did the alternator swap on my 144. It was neccessitated by my sound system which was drawing ~25-30A from my 35A which meant that at night I would be flattening the battery and triggering warning lights if the headlights were on.

A couple of things were different:
-I live in Australia so rather than a GM alt I used a Bosch Alt (From a TR-ish Magna). Still it is an 85A unit as compared to my oem 35A.
-I didn't need to fabricate a bracket.
-I did need to change the pulley on the new alt to a V belt.

Mounting was fairly straightforeward I was able to use the stock mounts with no problems. The only thing I needed to do was fab up some spacers for the lower mount.

Wiring was also pretty straightforeward. I upgraded the current wire (some 8 gauge) and connected the starter to the alt B+ as the old one had been. This left two wires on the alt, labelled S and L respectively. Took an educated guess that S was signal eg ignition and L was light eg warning light. Connected L to the existing wire. Perused wiring diagrams to find an appropriate location for S to be drawn from. The coil looked a good place, fitted a two way adapter to it and connected to S. Pretty straightforeward.

The only hassles were:
-The new alt is physically larger (dah) and so wouldnt swing in toward the block as far making putting the belt back on abit tricky.
-Had to pull the fuel-pump to get the lower bolt in.

Total cost was $40 (AUD).

EDIT: Oh I also ditched the oem voltage regulator as surplus to requirements.

[240Psycho]

In my experience with the GM alt, i found it to be only this - much better then the volvo 100 amp alternator, Granted its smaller, i found mine to have unussual spikes and drops and the amount of work to propperly shim it and grinding to make it fit was just not worth it in the end.

I am currently moving the alternator to the space that the ac compressor was in. this will move it away from the heat, shorten the wires, and provide more clearance on the turbo side. (this is from a 240 owner point of view)

[bumpbox]

Personally a GM alternator isn't a good idea. They're notorious for failing at an early age. Better off sticking with an improved Volvo unit or Denso. I've seen 100 amp Volvo units anyways, and lord knows the Japanese know their way around electronics.

[240Psycho]

Personally a GM alternator isn't a good idea. They're notorious for failing at an early age. Better off sticking with an improved Volvo unit or Denso. I've seen 100 amp Volvo units anyways, and lord knows the Japanese know their way around electronics.

well one of the plus's was the size/weight/cost compared to the volvo unit, but your right about the gm unit failing early.

Im interested in this Ford unit people are talking about now.

~Kyle

[bumpbox]

Ford would be a better choice. I guess now it's technically OEM for Volvo. Motorcraft tends to have good electrical stuff. I have a sneaking suspicion that the Motorcraft units might be Denso. Afterall, Yamaha builds most of their engines. The V8's anyways. Mazda builds their 4's and V6's.

[volvoid]

Ford would be a better choice. I guess now it's technically OEM for Volvo. Motorcraft tends to have good electrical stuff. I have a sneaking suspicion that the Motorcraft units might be Denso. Afterall, Yamaha builds most of their engines. The V8's anyways. Mazda builds their 4's and V6's.

FWIW, Yamaha has only built one and only one V8 for Ford: the 3.4L in the '96-99 Taurus SHO. This engine was never used in any other vehicle.

Yamaha has built one and only one V8 for Volvo: the new 4.4L in the XC90 and 2nd gen S80. This engine is not used in any Ford vehicle.

Ford builds its own V8s, V6s and inline 4s itself in its own engine plants in the U.S., with the exception of only a scant few smaller engines that are made in conjunction with Mazda and only for the vehicles platforms that were co-developed by Ford and Mazda.

What this all means is that Volvo still operates as an independent entity within Ford. '99+ Volvos still to this day do not run Ford parts and one still can't buy Volvo parts at any Ford dealer and vice versa.

That all said, it's worth noting that many Ford engines, especially Ford's own large displacement modular engine family which are generally fitted with the highest amp alternators available bolt directly to the engine block or to the intake manifold without a bracket at all making retrofitting onto a non-Ford engine a bit cumbersome.

As far as Ford's Motorcraft service parts go, there are *many* OEMs like Denso, Bosch, etc. that produce service parts for Ford under the Motorcraft brand name. Ford does not produce the majority of its Motorcraft service parts itself. So the case of alternator retrofitting, the OEM of a Motorcraft alternator will vary by the alternator part number and the engine the alternator is designed to fit.

[Jeh]

FWIW, .

What this all means is that Volvo still operates as an independent entity within Ford. '99+ Volvos still to this day do not run Ford parts and one still can't buy Volvo parts at any Ford dealer and vice versa.
.

Soryy to bust your bubble on this one. 99 to about 04 you are correct Starting with the 04.5 s40 Volvo has been using Ford parts and the newer units late 06 an 07 have FOMOCO stamped all over them.:-(

[Top_ntocH 740GL]

I just put a 87 Tarus 4cyl alternator on mine. It fits like factory. My orginal alt died, and this was the cheapest alt availible in town. No Volvo units anywhere. But, Im still not charging. Its bull****, I wired everything upcorrectly, and Im still not getting a charge. WTF? 12.2 volts FTL

[Top_notcH 740]

I just put a 87 Tarus 4cyl alternator on mine. It fits like factory. My orginal alt died, and this was the cheapest alt availible in town. No Volvo units anywhere. But, Im still not charging. Its bull****, I wired everything upcorrectly, and Im still not getting a charge. WTF? 12.2 volts FTL

OK, found a scematic. going to redo wiring now... :embarrassed:

For all interested, I found a .pdf on a bronco forum with the schematics for Ford's 3 G alternators. They are availble in 65, 100 and higher amp ratings. The one I used, the 87 Ford Tarus 4 banger, bolted right in like factory. No modifications, minus wiring.

[Top_notcH 740]

http://www.bcbroncos.com/3ginstall.pdf

the link

[doeboy]

Was it a ford 3g alternator that was on that taurus? I found a good place called www.mralternator.com that sells 3 versions of that alternator cause i want a new one that just bolts on.

[vivalavolvo]

I made the mistake of getting a Duralast alternator in my 90 245. BUT they did have a lifetime warranty, i was in auto zone every month or so for a new alternator.

[doeboy]

BUILT TO LAST DURALAST! ahahahha now i feel bad about my brakes.

[oRange855]

Soryy to bust your bubble on this one. 99 to about 04 you are correct Starting with the 04.5 s40 Volvo has been using Ford parts and the newer units late 06 an 07 have FOMOCO stamped all over them.:-(

Quoted for truth, and add the statement that all FOMOCO parts are stocked under ford partnumbers...

[spe1983]

Was it a ford 3g alternator that was on that taurus? I found a good place called www.mralternator.com that sells 3 versions of that alternator cause i want a new one that just bolts on.


Did you ever do this? We're stuck in Kansas and my alt is making 19+ Volts :omg:

[doeboy]

nope i havent.. i think the gm would be a better bet to try since there is an article up i jut wish there were pictures included in the article.

[Chuck W]

If I have the time to look into it I want to see if the spare 90A Ford 3G will work on my '85 240. I kind of glanced at it when I was working on some front susp stuff and had the splash pan out of the way. Not sure what stock is on the car but I plan on wiring up fogs and adding an e-fan in the future.
I need to dig up some wiring diagrams for my car...

[doeboy]

So I am going to talk to a master mechanic i just et about making a bracket if its needed for a high output iceberg alternator or an old ford.. If the bracket is required I am gonna have this guy make a bunch for me so I can get them to you guys. This is gonna take a few days to make sure this can happen but believe me it will.

[linuxman51]

i grabbed a 90 or 100A bosch from a VW at the jy. it was about as straight forward as it gets, slight modification of the bracket on the car, slight modification of the tensioner bracket, and done.

[Volvo244GLE]

hmm i just got a standard 90A bosch alternator from a volkswagen i think (but it doesnt matter), disassembled it, dissembled my old one and swapped the front cover between the two. 90A alternator + front from volvo unit = win.

[bdimag]

iraggi 200amp cs-130 vs bosch 100amp
http://bdsontheweb.com/images/cs130.jpg

[doeboy]

I ended up getting a mechman alternator and it works great. hiiigh power and wayyy better than that tiny little cs130

[bdimag]

mine is 200 amp and was ~$200; to get the same high-amp volvo alternator was ~$400.

[doeboy]

This pro-power I got puts out 220 amp at maximum. Mechman includes a dyno sheet for the alternator. It has a nice big casing which allows a lot more cooling to go on. Its probably just as big as the bosch. Probably selling it soon enough.

[Rustee]

Just did this swap today. Went to the wreckers with a rough idea of what it could be found in. They had one on the shelf from a '00 Safari that is basically brand new. So I grabbed it and turns out its a different mount style CS130D.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o15/Tyler-K/240/101_1012_tn.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o15/Tyler-K/240/101_1014_tn.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o15/Tyler-K/240/101_1015_tn.jpg


Top and bottom brackets are the same length, thats the only difference I can see.

I made it work without even modifying it. Only had to modify the tensioner bracket, drill everything out to 3/8 and use new bolts, since that was the size of the holes in the alt brackets. Oh, and make spacers for the bottom bracket.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o15/Tyler-K/240/101_1024_tn.jpg

[armandjones82]

On choosing a good GM Alternator Swap, I must say that the Motorcraft (http://www.car-stuff.com/motorcraftbrand.htm) Brand ain't that bad to use. I've used that previously and a friend also tried that and it works good in our vehicle. I hope that all things will work out well as the days go by with your chosen Alternator Swap.