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EricF
01-07-2004, 12:36 PM
This is the latest rendition of my intro to tuning these cars that I first wrote some years ago on VS and cross-posted over here. Since then a few things have been taken out and added, and changed.

Since it seems multiple times every day, we have people asking the same questions again and again ("What mod should I do first?" "Can my car be fast?" "What's the best bang for the buck?" "Why is the sky blue?" "Has anyone modified 850 turbos?" etc), I am going to attempt to lay things out clearly for some of the noobs. This will focus on 850 turbos primarily, as that is where the majority of my experience is. There will be notes and information about other cars though as well...

It is my hope that this post in conjunction with the pinned FAQ thread will be able to guide people to the answers to some of the more repetitive questions relatively easily.

I'll break it down as follows:

I. Engine
A. Limitations of the stock turbo
B. Upgrading the turbo and a new set of limitations

II. Transmission
A. Limitations of the stock auto transmission, and options for improving it
B. The better M56H manual, and possibilities it opens up

III. Miscellaneous Considerations


I. Engine

Overview: The engines in these cars (850 turbos, T5's, T5-R's, and R's, as well as all 70-series T5's [may mention early V70R's], all of which will be referred to as the HPT turbo cars as they are mechanically very similar) are 2.3 liter 20 valve DOHC designs, with a stock turbocharger and settings as follows:

All HPT 850's received TD04HL-15G turbos, with stock boost for turbo and T5 models set at 9.6 psi, and T5-R and R models at 10.5 psi (stock hp are 222 and 240, respectively). (The European 850R received a 16T turbo)

All HPT 70-series cars received 16T turbos (with the exception of the V70R's, which received 18T's in 98 and 99, and 19T's in 2000). Not sure on stock boost setting, I'd assume it's around 10 for the T5's and probably 12.5 or so for the R's.

Stock airbox design is excellent, pulling cold air from behind the grille, and can be easily modified to be even better. Stock exhaust has nice bends, but relatively small (~2.25") piping and very restrictive cat and muffler.

That's the starting point info. The overview of the engines.

With these cars, there are basically two relatively easily attained levels of tuning. The first is that in which the stock 15G turbo is the major limiting factor in increasing performance, with a ceiling around ~270-300bhp. The other level is one in which the turbo is upgraded, and performance is limited mainly by the transmission and later, the connecting rods.


A. The HPT cars with their stock 15G turbo reach their limitations fairly quickly. A reprogrammed ECU, coupled with good 2.5"-3" full exhaust, will generally get you to the limits of the 15G's efficiency. The ECU will increase fuel and boost maps to about 15-16 psi maximum boost. For a little more performance, you can add a boost controller (don't think you can on the ME7 1999+ cars) to decrease spool-up time and increase the boost an extra pound or two (beyond that isn't too useful).

Essentially though, at this point, if your car was in good tune to begin with, you will be in the area of as high as you'll get with this car, barring band-aid add-ons like nitrous and water/alcohol injection. You should be running mid-low 14s with anywhere from 270-300 horsepower at the crank. Extracting more power with the stock turbo is becoming difficult, because at higher RPMs, the turbine side limits exhaust flow. (though if you insist, you can gain some power by water/alcohol injection and/or nitrous oxide)


B. If you choose to upgrade the turbo (upgraded compressor wheel for the 15G, or using 16T, 18T, or 19T turbos are easiest), then you will potentially be able to yield significant gains in power beyond 17-18 psi. The 15G isn't too efficient even at 16 psi, so even at the same boost levels, you will feel a gain because the air won't be so superheated. However, you won't be able to increase the boost as high on this turbo as with the 15G, because it's actually flowing enough air at those higher boost levels that you'll be needing more fuel in order to make more power (*Bill at Adrenaline Racing recommends upgrading ECU map at any level above 16 psi when using a 19T).
This is the seperating factor for this level, because fuel mods apart from the pre-made performance chips are a consideration. Larger injectors and a rising-rate fuel pressure regulator are options, as well as the possibility of a custom ECU program. Best case scenario would be a custom ECU program used in conjuction with larger injectors.
*Since the time of writing this, it is easier to obtain ECU tuning for higher levels of modification from companies like RICA and IPD/TME, among others. That would be the route I would recommend. Civinco has also proven to be a viable option, depending on the user.

The difference in turbine housings:
There are 3 turbine housing designs (with two variations having been seen internally in the angle-outlet housing, but we will ignore that for now!). Conical outlet flange (94-95 850 turbo, 95 850 T5-R), straight outlet flange (96-97 850 R, T5 and GLT, 98 model S70 R, T5, And GLT), and angled outlet flange (All cars 99+ excluding the newer cars with KKK turbos). User jonsayre has contributed a photograph of all three side-by-side. http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/index.php?showtopic=92545
http://www.ezpixs.com/UserImages/14536.jpg

As you can see, the difference is in outlet size. This has an effect on performance, and all three housings are interchangeable and can be placed on any TD04HL turbo (13G, 13T, 15G, 16T, 18T, 19T, sorry if I forgot anyone!) by removing the center band clamp. Outlet sizes are <2.5" for the conical, >2.5" for the straight, and ~3" for the angled outlet. They also come with varying wastegate actuators, with the angle-outlet turbos receiving the 300/70 actuator with the strongest spring (straight outlet 16T was 215/60, conical 15G was 150/30, others may vary).

Beyond the TD04HL Volvo turbos, there are a few more options. The first is the Hahn Racecraft TD05H series of turbos, which are Mitsubishi TD05H turbochargers with a Hahn Racecraft turbine housing which gives it the standard T3 inlet flange. This is the same flange Volvo uses, but they use a raised lip on the exhaust manifold and recess in the turbine housing to make a mechanical gasket-less seal. This lip on the manifold must be machined down by a mill in order to use one of these turbos. There are 16G, Big 16G, and 20G compressors available in this series of turbo, and there are a handful of members using these turbos with great success.

In addition to the Hahn 16G/20G turbos, it is possible to use most Garrett T3-flanged turbos. This opens you up to a whole new world of sizing possibilities. It seems that the older T04B and T04E compressors (which are used in T3/T04B and T3/T04E hybrids) are being replaced by more modern GT-series ball-bearing turbos, although the 50 trim T04E is still an outstanding compressor and very versatile for power levels from 300 whp to 400 whp. The GT-series of turbos from Garrett provide a number of options, I would start with the GT2871R as a great turbo to use with the stock transmission and bottom end. This turbo will comfortably make 270-320 whp on our engines I would say. The next step is a GT3071R, and the GT3076R... These are great options for mildly built bottom ends using manual transmissions or upgraded automatic transmissions. The GT35R is an excellent turbo, but unless you are aiming for over 450 whp I would not say it is necessary. It is also possible to use some Holset turbos. When using big turbos like these, you may run into firewall clearance or rear transmission mount clearance issues. Don't be surprised...

Internals
The engine's internals are reportedly good to around 400 horsepower with proper air/fuel tuning. However, many premature failures of connecting rods have happened due to high boost levels at low RPMs, or poor tuning in general. With boost coming on gradually however, 320-340 wheel horsepower or possibly slightly more should be attainable if done carefully. The problem is how well the ECU can respond to and correct detonation events. At higher, less stable boost levels with stock boost control and oddly proportioned turbos (like the 19T), it is difficult for Motronic's algorithms to effectively combat these problems before permanent engine damage has occurred. There is also a much much thinner margin for error and bad gas and such at the highest power levels.

There are now affordable H-beam rods available from either Sten Parner (bad because of exchange rate now), or R-Sport International, among a few other companies. These rods will allow you to do a mild rebuild of the engine and take out the weakest link in the bottom end. This will allow you to make 350-400+ whp safely and reliably with proper tuning.

Intercooler
The stock intercooler setup is very good, utilizing all black-painted aluminum piping, and an OK bottom-to-top intercooler. In my experience, the abundant rubber elbows used in this system have proven very weak under high levels of boost, and are costly to replace.... I would recommend getting a kit of replacement elbows in silicon. Drop-in upgraded intercoolers are available, though I don't know at what point they become a serious consideration. (there are also "reverse-flow intercooler setups available that reduce the distance of the intercooler pipes to improve throttle response, but it's my belief that the benefit of added cooling of the longer plumbing helps cooling enough to make the reverse intercooler piping (~$250) not quite worthwhile.) There is more discussion and more rambling on my part in the FAQ thread regarding intercooler upgrades.

Stock ignition and fuel systems are very good as well, basic plug, wire, coil upgrades will probably yield some small gains, especially at higher output, and the fuel system is easy to upgrade. The first upgrade to consider in the fuel system would be the injectors, which stock are 315cc/min as I recall. A general rule of thumb on our engines with stock fuel pressure is that for each cc/min of injector size, you can achieve about 1 bhp. So with 315cc/min injectors you can achieve about 315 bhp, or 260-280 whp. There are Bosch-made Volvo injectors which are a direct replacement for the 850's stock orange top injectors. The 70-series T5 cars in 1998 received white injectors which flow roughly 350cc/min. In 1999, all 70 series T5 cars received blue 395cc injectors, which were original equipment on those models for quite a few years. In 2000, the V70R AWD received green 468cc/min injectors, which resurfaced again in 2004 when the R AWD V70 and S60 were introduced. A quick and easy way to up effective injector flow is to put in a Dodge 4-bar fuel pressure regulator from a 2.2 liter turbo Dodge (from the late 80s, early 90s). Which gives an increase in flow over our 3 bar.

Apart from these injectors, any high impedance Bosch injector can be used in the stock rail, but accompanying tuning ought to be done to ensure the car will run efficiently with these injectors. It is possible to run larger injectors with no tuning provisions for them, but it will be far from an ideal setup and mileage will suffer.

In addition to upgrading the injectors, the stock fuel pump will eventually run out of steam. I am not totally sure of where this occurs, but believe it is somewhere shy of 400 bhp. There is a very easy and inexpensive upgrade available though, the standard Walbro 255 lph in-tank pump. (The part number is GSS 342 and an installation guide can be found in the FAQ thread)


II. Transmission

A. The stock automatic transmission doesn't seem to like seeing power above 300bhp. However, some people have been running higher amounts just by doing simple things. There are two very easy and very significant things to do that will help the life of your transmission great amounts. One is flushing your fluid (also upgrading to better fluid helps), and the other is the installation of a transmission fluid cooler. With these two simple things, these transmissions (in good shape) have held well over 300 horsepower, though they are still far weaker than their manual counterparts. You will find by checking your transmission fluid regularly after modifying your car greatly, the condition of the fluid deteriorates pretty rapidly. Flush the fluid again as soon as its condition has deteriorated.

B. There are to my knowledge two manual gearboxes for the FWD cars, the M56 (available in H and L versions) and the M59. Some people have gotten the M66 from the S60R to work in these cars, but I will focus on the 850's offerings. The M56 has an open differential, but is supposedly stronger than the M59. The M59 however, was used in Europe in the R's, and came with a high power-handling clutch and a limited slip differential. The M56H and L differ only by gear ratios, both being very strong transmissions. When using the Volvo manual transmissions, the R clutch kit should be capable of handling most builds regardless of driving style, until you start approaching the 350-400 whp level. In my car with 19T turbo, stock injectors and intercooler, and Upsolute tuning, I ran 13.31 at 107.4 mph, this with the M56H transmission and R clutch.


III.

There are other things to consider when tuning these cars. One is that they can run fairly well with very worn components, and in some cases do well even with fairly damaged components. For this reason, many of these cars out there today are in very poor shape mechanically, though it is not readily apparent (most people don't notice something is wrong with them, and if they do, if it's not affecting the car's performance they will generally overlook it). Often times, people will do certain modifications and not yield the gains they are expecting. This is most often due to these small problems that had been overlooked by previous owners and such.
Stage 0 is unbelievably important in these cars. Before modding, replace the distributor cap and rotor, spark plugs wires, spark plugs, fuel filter, all vacuum lines, test compression, look for oil leaks, and generally make sure the car is up to spec. Buy gauges. Generic boost and A/F ratio gauges are fairly cheap and very useful in tuning these cars. This is also a good chance to do minor upgrades like better air filter, exhaust, and minor ignition components. Once you're confident your car is running as it should, go ahead with the major modifications, you will save yourself a lot of headaches and troubleshooting (not that there won't be any involved!). Most people don't acknowledge the increased wear/load placed on basic components when you increase engine output by ~50%. Refer to the FAQ thread for more on Stage 0.

Another important consideration to make before sinking lots of money into one of these cars is that it will never be a drag racer. With fat (for these cars, 225 is considered pretty fat) street tires on 16-17" rims, traction will be a huge problem, even around the 300 horsepower level.
Larger tire sizes would require smaller offsets or spacers, accompanied probably by fender-rolling. The wheel wells in these cars are very snug. Drag radials are but a small help, and slicks are far from reasonable for a daily-driven car.
Overtaking cars on highways, and racing from a roll will be on par with mildly modded f-body V8's, and other extremely fast cars, but you'll find that from a stop, you will be at a severe handicap..

The setup I would recommend to most users: TD04HL-18T turbocharger, IPD intercooler upgrade, SAMCO silicon boost hoses, 3" exhaust system, 350cc or larger injectors with custom ECU programming from a reputable tuner, and either manual transmission swap or automatic with aftermarket cooler and nice fresh fluid. This will produce an extremely quick car in the 18-21 psi range, and will be relatively reliable as it utilizes all Volvo factory parts and design considerations while not exceeding the safe limitations for the stock block.

Some vendors for the chips (I'd recommend custom exhaust, and trying to find injectors independently), and turbos, plus other minor performance parts...

Vendors
- http://www.ipdusa.com</a> - the most reputable Volvo performance parts place in America, they are a distributor for TME, and top-notch, if a little expensive.

- http://www.viva-performance.com - George is a US distributor of RICA ECUs and a number of other parts for these cars.

- http://www.samsteffansson.se/samindex.html - SAM Steffanson, very extensive catalog of parts although located in Sweden.

- http://www.eurosporttuning.com - If you refer Volvospeed, Frank will be very helpful here, and there is also a small discount. They are the US distributor for the Swedish tuning company SAM Steffanson.

- http://www.upsolute.com/ - A more budget-minded chip tuning company.

- http://www.speedtuningusa.com - Another budget-minded company.

- http://www.stenparnermotor.se - A reasonably-priced very reputable engine builder and parts supplier in Sweden. He speaks English well so e-mail is a good way of contacting him if you would like to order parts from him.

- http://www.r-sportinternational.com/ - An up and coming Volvo tuning company, they are able to provide H-beam connecting rods at an affordable price as well as other parts.

- http://www.kaplhenke.com/ - Another up and coming company, specializing mainly in higher end suspension parts.

- http://www.atpturbo.com - These guys are a generic turbo dealership, with a ton of offerings from Garrett and I believe a couple of other manufacturers, as well as vital things like fittings and silicone couplers, mandrel U-bends, etc. This is where to go if you are upgrading beyond the TD04HL series of turbos or are fabricating your own exhaust or front-mount intercooler kit.

- Board member Joseph Essaye (JHEIII874T5M) is a dealer of Samco Hoses and a number of other parts (Limited-slip differentials, Walbro pumps, etc) and is excellent to deal with.

- Board member Mike (thelostartof) is an excellent connection on OEM parts, performance exhausts (When he is making them :) ), and generally very helpful in tracking down parts when it is crunch time.

- Board member 300+ T5R 855 (CJ) could be known for his attention to detail and absolute demand for perfection. He distributes and manufactures various useful and in-demand parts for these Volvos. http://www.yother.com/ is his website.

These should be enough links to get you started, but if you really want to shop around please browse the pinned FAQ thread, as it is chock full of meaningful links and other data which has been omitted here.

If there are any questions unanswered here, feel free to PM me, or search the forums.

Kind of unorganized, may work on that in the future... Feel free to add/comment... I may revise/reorganize at a later date. For now that's enough of my company's time wasted on this thing ;)

stylngle2003
01-07-2004, 04:14 PM
awesome post, eric.

very informative...even to the RWD guys i think :wink:

should be stickied i think....


Billy

WeezilUSA
11-10-2004, 02:37 AM
I'm sold :lol:

volvoman37
11-10-2004, 02:44 AM
i'll be printing most of that once i get an ink cartridge

ashvolvo
11-10-2004, 06:23 AM
Fantastic post. Thanks heaps!
It would be great to see it built upon and developed a bit more.
Cheers,
Ash

boostdemon
11-10-2004, 08:50 AM
Yes this is very good information, cant wait to get this one up on the site. An idea - what about combining this with andy's (mAyday) 850 info article and sort it around a little so its a "Staged Mods for the 850/70 series cars" ?

mAydAy
11-10-2004, 09:29 AM
Yes this is very good information, cant wait to get this one up on the site. An idea - what about combining this with andy's (mAyday) 850 info article and sort it around a little so its a "Staged Mods for the 850/70 series cars" ?
Eric - AIM when I get home. I got 2 articles on 850's I've done I need to polish up and finish.

-Andy

EricF
11-10-2004, 10:45 AM
Eric - AIM when I get home. I got 2 articles on 850's I've done I need to polish up and finish.

-Andy

Sounds good :)

EricF
11-10-2004, 10:56 AM
Additional information I have picked up in the year or so since I wrote this:

An outstanding new vendor for FWD Volvo performance is Volvo Motor Sports, VMS. http://www.volvomotorsports.com

Additionally, I have found through very reliable information that the 19T is not nearly as safe to run on the 850s as a 16T or or 18T, reason being that the Motronic 4.3 system cannot regulate it efficiently enough and support it well enough to avoid bending rods in a long term sense. However, there are a number of people running 19T's on their 850s with no complaints thus far. There have also been a number of bent rods with this turbo, so at least you have been warned. The Swedes do not generally like it.

Also, my information regarding what cars the 18T was found in is wrong.

It is found on 1997-1998 V/S70R FWD/AWD cars in Europe with the manual transmissions.

I will also type up a post regarding knock retard in Motronic ECUs (not technical, just an "observations from the field" type thing) later tonight. ;) ;)

pat244ti
11-11-2004, 12:38 AM
Hmmmmm! BSR's PPC, a BMC Carbon Airbox Intake, a 3'' DP+Exhaust are being begged by my V70R once it gets a new tranny [which I guess I will adapt a cooler to now once it is in!]

Thanks for the info

nrvate
12-14-2004, 10:27 PM
that makes FWD sound tempting... :badboy:

EricF
12-14-2004, 10:56 PM
I am going to update this thread with pictures and extensive info on my car, once I have it somewhat finished (mid-low 13 trim) in the next month or so... After I get a few track times in.

Stay tuned :)

Geoff240Ti
12-15-2004, 01:26 PM
Very good article!!

A great read for rwd guys like me who don't know much about fwds..

blkaplan
12-16-2004, 10:48 AM
hmmm
i wanna convert our R to manual

Benjam83
12-16-2004, 01:25 PM
Frist off, great post dude.

What about the driveline on the newer AWD models. What can they handle? What improvements can be made? I've noticed that the WRX STI, ya know 300hp blah blah blah, is very quick 12.xx sec 1/4 etc etc. (I don't want this to turn into another WRX debate) I know the S60R is at a disadvantage b/c of the weight, but I don't think that would be a matter of 2 seconds. This would lead me to believe that there is some time left on the table from the AWD. I wouldn't know from experience as I haven't driven an s60r. I have driven an STI. I could understand how the scooby would have the AWD thing down, they've been doing it forever. Are the newer volvo AWDs 4 wheel, or are the front and read diffs open? More info on these would be super and very informative for all of us I think.

Anyone able to shine some light?

ashvolvo
12-16-2004, 06:56 PM
Not sure if you'd like to include this in your article composition or not, but upgrading to a better coil, such as MSD, etc is certainly worthwhile.

We purchased two MSD coil upgrade kits from EuroSport tuning, which come with Magnacore 8.5mm coil lead, mounting bracket, MSD coil and instructions.

The first car we installed this in was 1997 V70R AWD Manual.
This car has a TME chip, decent cat-back exhaust system.
- Instantly noticable improvements in throttle response and better 'pull' under load

The second car we installed the kit in was a 1995 850T5 Auto.
Standard ECU. Standard exhaust.
- A big difference also, especially up hills and generally better from lower RPM.

Regards,
Ash

Fuller
12-17-2004, 10:41 PM
If I see that people start to ask about tuning the LPT cars here, I'll write a little about them, but for now this should answer most of the questions the board gets regarding FWD tuning.



If you could write alittle bit about tuning the LPT cars I would appreciate it quite a bit. Or even just send me a PM. My stage 0 is done, and im ready to start with other things. Im really not sure where to start. Thanks - Kyle

Ajax5678
12-18-2004, 09:29 PM
The canadian 850 R Manuals had more HP did they not? I'm guessing just an ECU thang? 250 or something close to that.

EricF
12-18-2004, 09:35 PM
The canadian 850 R Manuals had more HP did they not? I'm guessing just an ECU thang? 250 or something close to that.

Bigger injectors, 16T turbo, limited slip differential... All I can think of right now :)

700volts
12-18-2004, 11:18 PM
Hey, nice job. Tell me more about my car, if you would!! I'm dying to here more stuff about it. Turbo type, trans ID, that kind of stuff. All I can tell you is that I really hooks up and goes pretty well for a little 5 banger. It's quicker than my old Chevelle I had.

'01 V70 T5 (high pressure), has the geartronic trans (LSD?), fly-by-wire.

EricF
12-19-2004, 12:31 AM
Hey, nice job. Tell me more about my car, if you would!! I'm dying to here more stuff about it. Turbo type, trans ID, that kind of stuff. All I can tell you is that I really hooks up and goes pretty well for a little 5 banger. It's quicker than my old Chevelle I had.

'01 V70 T5 (high pressure), has the geartronic trans (LSD?), fly-by-wire.

ME 7 engine management with electronic throttle... 5 speed auto/geartronic (don't know the ratios), no LSD, 16T turbo... Cool platform, Rob (on this site as Rob @ Volvomotorsports I think) made something like 330 hp on his 19T (upgraded) 2001 C70. They work :)

700volts
12-19-2004, 01:21 AM
So the Dynamic Stability and Traction Control (DSTC) is not a sort of LSD? 247 HP correct? Thanks for the info.

MuscleVolvo
01-03-2005, 11:18 AM
ok , so being a newbie to this turbo stuff * V-8 mustang kinda guy * im seeing that the recipe for decent power levels requires a chip and exhaust ..... that is not produced by very many companies and have the monopoly .... therefore have outrageous prices :omg:

So , say I opt the 800 dollars for a chip which gains 50 hp ..... not bad ........ But decide against the 1400 dollar exhaust that nets 10 - 15 hp ..... kinda rediculous .

Will the chip still gain me 50 hp without the exh mods ?

EricF
01-03-2005, 11:27 AM
ok , so being a newbie to this turbo stuff * V-8 mustang kinda guy * im seeing that the recipe for decent power levels requires a chip and exhaust ..... that is not produced by very many companies and have the monopoly .... therefore have outrageous prices :omg:

So , say I opt the 800 dollars for a chip which gains 50 hp ..... not bad ........ But decide against the 1400 dollar exhaust that nets 10 - 15 hp ..... kinda rediculous .

Will the chip still gain me 50 hp without the exh mods ?

If money is a concern, go with Upsolute (~$400?) for a chip and exhaust custom fabricated locally. I chipped my car and got turbo-back exhaust (with high flow cat and muffler) for $1100 total, and I have a higher end chip.

If $400 still seems too expensive, look for chips on e-bay from Speedtuning USA, I believe they are $299. They are also legitimate.

MuscleVolvo
01-03-2005, 07:30 PM
If money is a concern, go with Upsolute (~$400?) for a chip and exhaust custom fabricated locally. I chipped my car and got turbo-back exhaust (with high flow cat and muffler) for $1100 total, and I have a higher end chip.

If $400 still seems too expensive, look for chips on e-bay from Speedtuning USA, I believe they are $299. They are also legitimate.
Well , I may be a newbie to turbo volvos , but have been racing mustangs for quite some time . So when you say is money a concern ..... well lets see ..... I spent a little over 6 grand last year in my 90 GT this past year , but also spent it with the " best bang for the buck " attitude .

So , when i see a chip for 800 bucks , that raises the output of that volvos power plant 30 % .... im like wow . Thats good . Im sold .

Then i see a 1400 dollar downpipe that nets 10 hp ..... im like .... yea whatever .

Question is tho ..... will the chip perform the huge hp gain by adding the Chip alone ?

And whats this i hear about rods giving out from the wrong combo ? Thats scary .

naTRON
01-04-2005, 11:56 AM
instead of spending 600+ on a nice chip... couldn't you just buy a boost dependent fuel pressure regulator, a msd boost timing master, and a boost controller????

where could i find a boost dependent fuel pressure regulator for a volvo? (97 t5)

EricF
01-04-2005, 12:15 PM
instead of spending 600+ on a nice chip... couldn't you just buy a boost dependent fuel pressure regulator, a msd boost timing master, and a boost controller????

where could i find a boost dependent fuel pressure regulator for a volvo? (97 t5)

A chip is a better means of tuning, really. Not to mention the stock chips have fuel cutout at 14-15 psi...

You could try that and probably have decent results, but you could get a chip and get the same result more reliably and for less money.

naTRON
01-04-2005, 01:40 PM
A chip is a better means of tuning, really. Not to mention the stock chips have fuel cutout at 14-15 psi...

You could try that and probably have decent results, but you could get a chip and get the same result more reliably and for less money.



:cool: the only reason i am hesitant to buy a chip is because i want the flexibility of being able to control boost levels myself, so i guess the best thing for me would be a chip + boost controller????

thanks man!!! :-D

Volvo4Life
01-04-2005, 01:49 PM
:cool: the only reason i am hesitant to buy a chip is because i want the flexibility of being able to control boost levels myself, so i guess the best thing for me would be a chip + boost controller????

thanks man!!! :-D


yup... buy the chip for the upgraded fuel maps.. and then happy boosting :)

MuscleVolvo
01-05-2005, 09:14 AM
Gee , I must be writing in clear ink again ....... 3rd times the charm maybe

Will the chip still gain me the 50 hp without the exhaust mods ?

EricF
01-05-2005, 10:35 AM
Gee , I must be writing in clear ink again ....... 3rd times the charm maybe

Will the chip still gain me the 50 hp without the exhaust mods ?

On most cars, it won't give you 50 hp even with exhaust. It's still the most wortwhile upgrade for these cars though by a long shot. Chip, exhaust, and boost controller should set you in the low 14s with very few exceptions.

MuscleVolvo
01-05-2005, 11:37 AM
low 14 aint too bad for a brick in the wind

EricF
04-29-2005, 12:29 AM
bump, as I am going to be making a few additions and submitting soon.

Unregistered
05-04-2005, 01:37 PM
Can't wait EricF. Keep up the good work!

- Gregory Shepertycky

think_07
05-04-2005, 01:38 PM
Oops, forgot to log in.

Can't wait EricF. Keep up the good work!

- Gregory Shepertycky

think_07
06-01-2005, 01:36 PM
So how are those additions coming along?

- Gregory Shepertycky

EricF
06-01-2005, 02:09 PM
So how are those additions coming along?

- Gregory Shepertycky

Well I've got some strange stuff going on with my car situation right now... And it is possible that I will be driving an 850 with megasquirt fuel control and an 18T turbo soon, so I'm waiting to see how things materialize really.

That would be make for a much more interesting article I think :)

Though I suppose I could break it down into multiple issues (general information and rules of thumb for FWD cars, then the hybrid turbo experience, then the stand-alone fuel experience)... We'll see. There will be a lot more information forthcoming though :)

volvo
06-15-2005, 10:54 AM
EricF: great post, and quite informative. its also nice to know that the FWD cars work well with worn parts.. :P hehe

my question, being that you were refering to Turbo, T5 and T5-R's, is if the information you provided can be applied to a Light Pressure Turbo car. I currently have a 97 GLT, and is not slouchy, but i have the bug to make it quicker.

i think my 97 GLT has a 2.4L engine w/LPT (i've had the car for 4 weeks, so im still learning) as opposed to the 2.3L T, T5, or T5R...is this an advantage for fitting a bigger turbo? does the LPT have a higher Compression that the regular T, T5, ot T5R, which would limit the size/type of turbo to be fitted? is there a computer problem when the larger turbo is fitted for proper fuel delivery, and air speed to the sensor. what PSI is a LPT set at?


im sorry if im overwhelming you with these questions. i would like to get more info on the tuning possibilities of a GLT, but there seems to be not too much info out there, but im still researching. i'm going to look through the sites you put links to later on.

thanks

1 riktig svensk
06-17-2005, 12:35 PM
The one thing that I noticed you guys forgot to discuss was cams.....most people that have the T5 cars don't bother considering other cams, HOWEVER there is a very cheap option when it comes to cams. Get a set of N/A cams from like a GLT or something. They will have higher lift, and when it comes to high performance on T5 engines, they will help you yield more potential out of your engine. They can be found cheap on Ebay, and other sources. I got a set for $60 shipped. I've seen them on Ebay for $9.99 plus shipping. But you might also spend upwards of $200.....shop wisely.

Also worth mentioning is the newer exhaust manifold, AKA Japan manifold....outflows the older one by far. That combined with a 19T, GLT cams and so forth, will give you a fast car to say the least!!!!

On certain early R models, they had the reverse intercooler flow setup.....I did this on the '94 850 turbo I had, and the biggest difference I noticed was quicker throttle response, in my mind, it's worth doing, if it's done right.....flush and clean intercooler, etc. One of the benefits would be that the air has a much shorter distance to travel, and fewer bends.

Just my 2 cents.....

EricF
06-17-2005, 08:39 PM
The one thing that I noticed you guys forgot to discuss was cams.....most people that have the T5 cars don't bother considering other cams, HOWEVER there is a very cheap option when it comes to cams. Get a set of N/A cams from like a GLT or something. They will have higher lift, and when it comes to high performance on T5 engines, they will help you yield more potential out of your engine. They can be found cheap on Ebay, and other sources. I got a set for $60 shipped. I've seen them on Ebay for $9.99 plus shipping. But you might also spend upwards of $200.....shop wisely.

Also worth mentioning is the newer exhaust manifold, AKA Japan manifold....outflows the older one by far. That combined with a 19T, GLT cams and so forth, will give you a fast car to say the least!!!!

On certain early R models, they had the reverse intercooler flow setup.....I did this on the '94 850 turbo I had, and the biggest difference I noticed was quicker throttle response, in my mind, it's worth doing, if it's done right.....flush and clean intercooler, etc. One of the benefits would be that the air has a much shorter distance to travel, and fewer bends.

Just my 2 cents.....


Good points :)

I had the GLT cams in my black 850 before it died... I did too many mods at the same time to see how that affected things though.

I have mixed feelings about reverse intercooler piping, and one thing people forget is that the longer path with the good 850 aluminum piping will help cool the charge a little more. It depends what you're after though, and if I had the parts laying around, I'd probably do the reverse setup. I don't know if I'd spend a lot of money on it though.

For my upcoming setup, I may be using a custom FMIC mounted below the bumper... Depending on the space and if I can do the piping with stuff I have now. One interesting option though is one guy over on VS has cut up his stock piping to create the reverse piping setup at no cost.

I don't know that the 19T is the best option on 850s, but if you have a reliable form of boost control and you aren't relying on motronic 4.3 to control boost, it's a nice setup I think. I'm going to be using an angle-outlet 18T on my upcoming setup, which is essentially the same thing (slightly smaller compressor, but same turbine stuff).

volvo: Jesse850GLT (he comes around here sometimes and is a moderator on VS) has done pretty well with his 97 GLT, as has Alex (forget his exact name on here?), both running in the 14.4s :) Jesse is running off-the-shelf chips for the low pressure turbo cars, a 15G turbo (straight from an 850 T5), and has exhaust, water injection, and a couple of other modifications.

Tuning those cars seems to be essentially the same as tuning the other 850s, but you'll have to be a lot more careful with the amount of boost you run and how well you tune, as you have a higher compression ratio and thinner cylinder walls. Hope that helps.


--------------------------------------
Since I keep talking about "my upcoming setup," I may as well get it down on paper here :)

I'll be running a brand new angle-outlet TD04HL-18T turbo, new oil lines, a used long block with 73k miles (might put on my .040" off and slightly ported head with GLT cams, but haven't decided yet), possibly a front-mount intercooler... Definitely Samco silicon hoses.

A 3" mandrel-bent SS downpipe made by Jesse, a 2.5" IPD cat-back, a resonator in place of the cat.

For fuel, I will be using Megasquirt with 395 cc/min "blue" injectors from a 1999+ 70-series T5 car, tuning with a Techedge wideband O2 sensor, and controlling boost with an AVC-R electronic boost controller, both by RPM and gear, and watching a Boris M. KnockSense unit to make sure I don't get any knock, and see what air-fuel ratios I should shoot for (probably ~12.0:1 at WOT, running ~18-20 psi at the higher RPM levels). Ignition timing map will come courtesy of a chip designed and programmed by a personal friend of mine in Sweden.

My goals for this car are ~285-300 whp (maybe more if I put on that other and cams), and hopefully a quarter mile time around 13.5 or possibly a little faster. This is certainly a setup capable of yielding these numbers, and certainly capable of exceeding them at least by a nominal amount, but I am skeptical of my ability to tune it to the point where it can put up those numbers consistently and reliably.

I'm hoping to have the car running with this setup in a month, month and a half or so. I'm hoping to meet my power goal perhaps a month or so after that. I have all the said parts except the turbo (en route from Sweden), engine (picking up tomorrow), and downpipe (waiting for Jesse to make it... and I'm waiting for the turbo to come before I start pressuring him ;) ).

After I get that setup running well, I will write up a final copy of this "article" and submit it, mainly chronicling my adventures with these cars and mentioning results others have had with various setups.

*phew*

volvo
06-19-2005, 10:26 PM
EricF: thanks for the info. im going to VS to see if i can research the possibilities of LPT before i spend any $$$. i want ot make sure i know what i want to do it properly.
ca't wait to read your article...it will be a "publishing" we all will love to read.

LION 850 T5
09-29-2005, 02:32 AM
To Modify Exhaust System I Need To Set Up 2.5 Piping. Should I Need To Modify Exhaust Mainfold To Fit 2.5 Downpipe Or Just Remove The Stock Piping And Put 2,5 ?

EricF
09-30-2005, 11:07 AM
To Modify Exhaust System I Need To Set Up 2.5 Piping. Should I Need To Modify Exhaust Mainfold To Fit 2.5 Downpipe Or Just Remove The Stock Piping And Put 2,5 ?

Exhaust manifold bolts to turbo, turbo bolts to downpipe... So no you wouldn't have to change anything with the exhaust manifold since it does not connect to the exhaust at all :) Just un-bolt the stock downpipe and exhaust from the turbo and bolt the new stuff up.

pat244ti
10-02-2005, 06:03 AM
To Modify Exhaust System I Need To Set Up 2.5 Piping. Should I Need To Modify Exhaust Mainfold To Fit 2.5 Downpipe Or Just Remove The Stock Piping And Put 2,5 ?

Just remove the stock piping, and for a downpipe I'd recommend going 3''. After the DP it'd be a good idea to go down to about 2.5''.

ashvolvo
10-02-2005, 10:03 PM
I'm using 2.5" piping with mandrel bends from the cat back. I find this to be a vast improvement over the stock setup.
Ultimately I'll replace the cat with something bigger and perhaps the downpipe, but the car had a split muffler which really needed to be fixed.

volvorsport
10-03-2005, 05:53 AM
ive posted these in the con rod section in performance , interesting pics of the different NA and turbo heads .

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.slater133/wb08.JPG

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.slater133/wb07.JPG

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.slater133/wb06.JPG

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.slater133/wb05.JPG

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.slater133/wb04.JPG

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.slater133/wb03.JPG

Morley
10-13-2005, 05:34 PM
The M59 does NOT have an LSD, it's more like a hydraulic coupling that transfers up to 190NM to the wheel that is spinning.

JFYI.

240MAN
11-03-2005, 03:34 PM
So, I need a simple answer. Can all of these mods be performed on an 850 GLT? I know this is a n00bish question, but hey, I'm a Volvo n00b. :)

If these mods can be done, I think this would be a way better deal for a fast (faster?) car rather than saving up money for an 850 T-5 Turbo sedan. Plus, wouldn't the insurance be cheaper as well? I got quoted at $292 a month for insurance on an 850 T-5, which is a major drag and huge drawback from me purchasing an 850 T-5 sedan.

I know how fast these cars can be, my father has a '97 850 R with an ECU upgrade and TME exhaust, and it is a blast to drive. Much more fun than my 240 DL, and way sportier as well.

Any body have any answers?

EricF
11-03-2005, 04:42 PM
So, I need a simple answer. Can all of these mods be performed on an 850 GLT? I know this is a n00bish question, but hey, I'm a Volvo n00b. :)

If these mods can be done, I think this would be a way better deal for a fast (faster?) car rather than saving up money for an 850 T-5 Turbo sedan. Plus, wouldn't the insurance be cheaper as well? I got quoted at $292 a month for insurance on an 850 T-5, which is a major drag and huge drawback from me purchasing an 850 T-5 sedan.

I know how fast these cars can be, my father has a '97 850 R with an ECU upgrade and TME exhaust, and it is a blast to drive. Much more fun than my 240 DL, and way sportier as well.

Any body have any answers?

If you have a 1997 GLT with the low pressure turbo engine, then yes the majority of the mods here will translate over to your setup... But you have a higher compression ratio and thinner cylinder walls so the margin for error in tuning is a bit narrower.

If you have a 93-96 GLT, then really the best option is to sell your car and get a T5. There are alternate plans for getting performance from those cars, but none will be as satisfying per dollar as acquiring a T5 to begin with and doing minor mods to that.

240MAN
11-03-2005, 08:47 PM
If you have a 1997 GLT with the low pressure turbo engine, then yes the majority of the mods here will translate over to your setup... But you have a higher compression ratio and thinner cylinder walls so the margin for error in tuning is a bit narrower.

If you have a 93-96 GLT, then really the best option is to sell your car and get a T5. There are alternate plans for getting performance from those cars, but none will be as satisfying per dollar as acquiring a T5 to begin with and doing minor mods to that.

Really, that is disappointing. I was hoping I'd be able to replace the stock turbo on the GLT with a more powerful one, and then be in for some fun. Guess it isn't that simple.

stylngle2003
11-03-2005, 10:36 PM
sure it is...if you have the elusive 97 GLT

you just have to be more careful with how well you tune it

its advised to get a t5 if you have an earlier GLT because well, NA sucks...mostly

240MAN
11-04-2005, 12:00 AM
Haha, awesome comment there at the end. I agree though, I love that rush you get driving when you floor it when you're packing a turbo. Really makes me wish I had a B230FT in my 240 DL, but I'd rather go for the newer models now.

RockVegas
11-04-2005, 10:56 AM
Now I just gotta wait for my folks to sell their V-70 AWD.... Auto tranny though :(

stylngle2003
11-04-2005, 01:36 PM
^^ better for drag launches anyway, and easier on the driveline components

plus, kickdown is sweet if you have a built car (andy's will SMOKE them from a 50 roll sometimes)

97GLT
01-31-2006, 09:03 PM
Hi all, new here,

Ive been following this post for some time now. In light of the recent talk of 97'GLTs ive decided to post some of my plans, so please give me what advice you have.

Being in college Ive never had enough money to actually do what you were talking about though, but I took it upon myself to research my options so i could upgrade if i gathered enough cash.

Im taking some time off from college (a degree in medicine is a loooong journy, i want to make d*mn sure that its what i want to do before i head into 8more years of school) and I should have enough money due to a new job (though i dont like to count my chickens before they hatch....excuse the lame idiom). I came across a kit at ATPturbo.com for $1995.00 that includes the following:

Stage II Turbo Upgrade Kit with Garrett Turbocharger (GT or T series), Wastegate, Blow-Off Valve, and all installation hardware; i.e. flanges, adapters, fittings, steel braided lines, and coolant lines and fittings.

They said to expect the following:
Garrett GT or T-Series Turbocharger
· Improved Wastegate Design for stable boost
· Larger Compressor to support up to 400HP
· CNC Custom Components for ease of installation
· Stock Downpipe and Manifold
· Larger Injectors
· Blow-Off Valve

Is this a good deal?


I plan to replace the stock 97' 850GLT engine with that of either a 850R or T-5 of the same year (if at all possible....would it fit? idiot newbie question, i know) to avoid any issues with the higher boost on the thinner cylinder walls.

Im also going to take your advice on replacing the transmission, so i plan to drop the auto gearbox and replace it with the kit you recomended (M56H kit via Bill at adrenalineracing). I plan to put in a new cat-back exhaust system, replace all the tubing with the higher strength silicon, upgrade the downpipe, and also upgrade to 17" wheels (nothing rediculous though....NO CHROME).
Ive already replaced the intake kit with a C/A intake (via eurosporttuning) and have a ECU upgrade ready to purchase at eurosporttuning as well. Ive done what i can to replace the stage zero components: Ive replaced the spark plugs and wires, tested compression and replaced rack and pinion system (nasty leak for a while, had to fill the power steering fluid like every 2days) as well as replacing a cracked boot joint in the front right. Oil seems to be fine, as well as most of the tubing in the engine bay. I still need to replace the vacuum lines and the distributor cap and rotor.


tell me if im missing anything or if i need to consider anything else


PS
Something thats really important to me is to keep the car looking relatively stock. The most i would do to alter its appearance would be to tint the windows or get more defined 6 spoke rims.
I like the way it looks (Fire engine red with stock spoiler).

EricF
02-01-2006, 05:49 PM
Hi all, new here,

Ive been following this post for some time now. In light of the recent talk of 97'GLTs ive decided to post some of my plans, so please give me what advice you have.

Being in college Ive never had enough money to actually do what you were talking about though, but I took it upon myself to research my options so i could upgrade if i gathered enough cash.

Im taking some time off from college (a degree in medicine is a loooong journy, i want to make d*mn sure that its what i want to do before i head into 8more years of school) and I should have enough money due to a new job (though i dont like to count my chickens before they hatch....excuse the lame idiom). I came across a kit at ATPturbo.com for $1995.00 that includes the following:

Stage II Turbo Upgrade Kit with Garrett Turbocharger (GT or T series), Wastegate, Blow-Off Valve, and all installation hardware; i.e. flanges, adapters, fittings, steel braided lines, and coolant lines and fittings.

They said to expect the following:
Garrett GT or T-Series Turbocharger
Improved Wastegate Design for stable boost
Larger Compressor to support up to 400HP
CNC Custom Components for ease of installation
Stock Downpipe and Manifold
Larger Injectors
Blow-Off Valve

Is this a good deal?


I plan to replace the stock 97' 850GLT engine with that of either a 850R or T-5 of the same year (if at all possible....would it fit? idiot newbie question, i know) to avoid any issues with the higher boost on the thinner cylinder walls.

Im also going to take your advice on replacing the transmission, so i plan to drop the auto gearbox and replace it with the kit you recomended (M56H kit via Bill at adrenalineracing). I plan to put in a new cat-back exhaust system, replace all the tubing with the higher strength silicon, upgrade the downpipe, and also upgrade to 17" wheels (nothing rediculous though....NO CHROME).
Ive already replaced the intake kit with a C/A intake (via eurosporttuning) and have a ECU upgrade ready to purchase at eurosporttuning as well. Ive done what i can to replace the stage zero components: Ive replaced the spark plugs and wires, tested compression and replaced rack and pinion system (nasty leak for a while, had to fill the power steering fluid like every 2days) as well as replacing a cracked boot joint in the front right. Oil seems to be fine, as well as most of the tubing in the engine bay. I still need to replace the vacuum lines and the distributor cap and rotor.


tell me if im missing anything or if i need to consider anything else


PS
Something thats really important to me is to keep the car looking relatively stock. The most i would do to alter its appearance would be to tint the windows or get more defined 6 spoke rims.
I like the way it looks (Fire engine red with stock spoiler).


First off, I think ATP stopped making their kit for our cars... Development issues.

Second, I think for a stock block the ideal turbo is either the TD04HL-18T or the TD04HL-19T. The problem with these turbos is that you need an electronic boost controller with 3d capability (like an AVC-R) with them to have stable boost levels. However, they spool very very well, and will support as much power as the stock block can handle.

The two best parts about them are that there are off-the-shelf chip tuning options for them (best tuning being from Swedish companies probably, though I know Upsolute for one makes a 19T chip program), and the other best part is that they bolt up to the stock oil and water lines directly, requiring only that a newer downpipe designated for those turbos be used.

I would suggest a 3" downpipe and any high-flowing cat-back exhaust, with 350cc or 395cc ("white" or "blue," respectively) depending on your boost levels. With one of those turbos, the upgraded exhaust, and the upgraded software, you should be able to achieve 300 wheel horsepower with boost levels around 17-18 psi possibly.

As long as your automatic transmission is in good shape and you flush the fluid very regularly (an aftermarket transmission cooler allows you to change less frequently, and is a very very good idea).

As to the swapping engines bit... I think the engine in your car now is sufficient. The only reason I would pull it is if you decide to go to upgraded internals and/or rebuild. The high pressure turbo engine is essentially the same, but has shorter pistons (or maybe they just have a bigger dish?).

97GLT
02-02-2006, 01:20 AM
How frequent should the fluid be changed (if i buy a cooler)? Im not talking about building a racecar, just something that can beat most lightly tuned cars.

With the advice given in mind, what do you think about:

vptuning sells a TD04HL-19T Turbo for about $750, along with a set of "blue" injectors and either a supersprint exhaust from the same site, or a 2.5" system from eurosporttuning. Couple that with a 3" downpipe from eurosport, a chip from Upsolute, and a transmission fluid cooler.

EricF
02-02-2006, 08:12 AM
How frequent should the fluid be changed (if i buy a cooler)? Im not talking about building a racecar, just something that can beat most lightly tuned cars.

With the advice given in mind, what do you think about:

vptuning sells a TD04HL-19T Turbo for about $750, along with a set of "blue" injectors and either a supersprint exhaust from the same site, or a 2.5" system from eurosporttuning. Couple that with a 3" downpipe from eurosport, a chip from Upsolute, and a transmission fluid cooler.

That would be quite a nice setup... Just do not forget an electronic boost controller if you go with a 19T :)

I've heard people changing their fluid every 25-35k miles with a cooler. Really I'd play it by ear and check the condition of the fluid from time to time.

Also, make sure Upsolute knows you have a LPT model... I'm not sure if they have a 19T map for that engine or not. May have to go overseas, which isn't always bad (lots of people are of the opinion that the Scandinavian companies are the only ones who *truly* know what they are doing with chip tuning anyway).

mattguitar
12-19-2006, 07:01 PM
Since yours is the most detailed and informative on the topic- I want to replace (rebuild) the turbo on my '94 850 T. I want to know if I should rebuild or replace and need to know whats compatible. IE- It appears this Saab turbo is a direct replacement. Am I wrong?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300060463949

Thanks

stylngle2003
12-20-2006, 01:27 AM
i'd replace it personally. you shoudl be good with any turbo off a pre 96 850. shoudl be a td04hl-15g

the saab turbine inlet flange is different than yours. you could swap housings, but you can find used good quality 15gs for about $100 at a junkyard, or starting at ~$250 shipped here

Hank Scorpio
12-20-2006, 01:42 AM
Since yours is the most detailed and informative on the topic- I want to replace (rebuild) the turbo on my '94 850 T. I want to know if I should rebuild or replace and need to know whats compatible. IE- It appears this Saab turbo is a direct replacement. Am I wrong?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300060463949

Thanks

right turbo, wrong (non volvo) exhaust housing. could PROBABLY be made to work but stick to a geniune volvo one.

850 TURBO ISRAEL
01-12-2007, 06:39 AM
Hi everyone:)
I am new in this forum and I have imprested about your knowledge about Volvos turbo.

my car is 850 turbo (225hp) 95'
had 190000 km.
And I have got an automatic transmission.
the car is completely stock.

ericF i have got a question for you:
if I chip my car would it damage my transmission ???

Jokerman
01-12-2007, 07:41 AM
Not a bad write up, one thing to add/change. The intercoolers, while not bad for a factory setup are seriously prone to heat soak especially during the summer. It's not an issue going down the highway, but in stop and go it can be a problem, sometimes causing detonation. From what i have seen from other fwd white block owners, an intercooler upgrade, whether it is a custom front mount or the stock style replacement from Eurosport (http://www.eurosporttuning.ca/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=VLE-680-101&Category_Code=VL-S70-en) is a good idea.

cranky
01-12-2007, 12:38 PM
To add to what Jokerman said, the intercooler is sandwiched between the condenser and the radiator. Heatsoak? ABSOLUTELY. intercooler upgrade should be considered one of the higher priorities IMO.
The cam timing is adjustable, and with other modifications should be adjusted - true for turbo or N/A. So if you put N/A cams in a turbo, they really need to be adjusted - The N/A has more valve overlap than what would be ideal for a turbo appl.
The throttle plate is larger on the N/A car, and is often used as an upgrade to the turbo.
Water, or water / alcohol injection is an easy DIY upgrade. In fact putting together and installing your own kit is not hard, and it is relatively inexpensive using the PROPER parts = 100psi pump, water shut off solenoid (for insurance), anti siphon valves, a water hammer, and proper nozzles, and can easily be made to have 2 or 3 stages. Nozzles should be placed after the intercooler, and before the throttle plate.
Exhaust - as was mentioned before, is a good place to upgrade. but just for the record - the 93 (and maybe later years too?) N/A model has a 1.5" exhaust. That is not a typo. That is one and one half inch OD. Modifying my exhaust, a magnaflow 91006 is recommended for my 93 850 ($64.00 at Jegs). I believe the newer cars need an air line? which that one does not have.
Additionally, the 93 850 has several differences from the later model. This list may not be complete, but it is a good start.
Timing belt is smaller, and service interval is shorter.
Headlights and turn signals - and I think fenders. Both bumper covers are different.
15" wheels with 4 X108 lug pattern - not the 5 X 108 of the later models.
93 uses Bosch LH Jetronic 3.2. One computer for fuel control and a seperate computer for ignition. All the computer upgrades I've seen are for the later Bosch Motronic.
93's only have 1 oxygen sensor.
93 LCD's only display the time and temp.
My 93 5 speed is an M49 or M46 (I can't remember , but I'll try to remember to edit this) - and my understanding is that the 93 auto transmission is different as well - but I'm not 100% on that.
Supposedly there is something different about the front struts having mounting holes for brake lines that is different? but most people will say that the other years will work if you move a brake line clip or something simple like that.
The 93 and 94 N/A both have V-VIS Volvo Variable Induction System which uses a short or a long runner to each cyclinder depending on variables such as TPS, and RPM, and is controlled by the computer to a vaccum switch on the side of the airbox which supplies vaccum to a servo under the intake to control which runners are used.
People often distinguish fuel injectors by color, but I have yellow and orange top injectors that have the same bosch part # on the side - so from that, it seems reasonable to question going by color alone.
92 850's were not imported to the U.S. Some of those were 10valve engines.
For those of you not familiar with these engines, the 5 cyl, and 6 cyl engines are almost identical - except of course for one more cylinder hanging on the end of the block....
Maybe I'll remember more later.
Everything posted above is believed to be true - at least by someone warped enough to call himself cranky. If you have any info contradictory to what I've posted, please be sure to post it. It won't hurt my feelings - I ain't got none.
:nod:

njbrickwithboost
06-27-2007, 08:45 PM
cool

njbrickwithboost
06-27-2007, 08:52 PM
My 93 5 speed is an M49 or M46 (I can't remember , but I'll try to remember to edit this) -


The 93 850 (like mine) has an M56L....which is prone to broken syncros, this theory has been proven by my brother





All HPT 850's received TD04 15G turbos, with stock boost for turbo and T5 models set at 9.6 psi, and T5-R and R models at 10.5 psi (stock hp are 222 and 240, respectively).



Then AM I to understand that by just increasing the boost 1.1 PSI, the 850 Gains 20 HP? so If I were to crank it up by 5 PSI would it get 100 more HP?

Oreo931
06-29-2007, 12:01 PM
no

rnmdad
07-03-2007, 03:47 PM
Isn't the general rule of thumb 1 psi + 10 horse, give or take (when done proper of course)?

fengler
07-03-2007, 11:56 PM
wow, i didnt even know this article existed.

just posting here for future reference :oogle: , on with your biznass

240MAN
07-05-2007, 10:50 AM
Hey guys, I just put an 18T in with RICA tune for white injectors, 3" DP and 2.5" exhaust. Now that she sounds great and breathes easier than she ever has, I have a question. I really don't want to bend my rods, and I hear this happens when boost comes on low in the RPM range. I don't think boost will even hit until 3000-3500RPM, so is this at risk for rod bend? I haven't really floored it yet to see the powerband, this **** really freaks me out though (I don't feel like buying a new engine). Is there a range of RPM that rod bend is susceptible to? I'm not looking for something specific because I understand it's not an exact science, just a range. Also, does it depend what gear I'm in (I've got the M56H in there)? Thanks for the help guys!

EricF
07-05-2007, 04:39 PM
Hey guys, I just put an 18T in with RICA tune for white injectors, 3" DP and 2.5" exhaust. Now that she sounds great and breathes easier than she ever has, I have a question. I really don't want to bend my rods, and I hear this happens when boost comes on low in the RPM range. I don't think boost will even hit until 3000-3500RPM, so is this at risk for rod bend? I haven't really floored it yet to see the powerband, this **** really freaks me out though (I don't feel like buying a new engine). Is there a range of RPM that rod bend is susceptible to? I'm not looking for something specific because I understand it's not an exact science, just a range. Also, does it depend what gear I'm in (I've got the M56H in there)? Thanks for the help guys!

I think the rods bending at low RPM may have a few possible contributing causes, and I think understanding those causes is key to getting a picture of the specific risks in different scenarios.

For one, the 850 has a very heavy rotating assembly mass... It revs extremely slowly, if you notice. As it accelerates at lower speeds with high amounts of torque on it fighting the high inertia of the heavy assembly, I would suggest that significantly greater cylinder pressure would be encountered than if it were significantly lighter. This is not my primary suspicion as to where the problem stems from, just something to keep in mind that may or may not be a meaningful contributing factor.

The sizing balance and nature of the TD04HL turbos allows them to start moving a lot of air at very low RPM levels. Boost builds very quickly with the stock 850 boost control solenoid. It is a very simple unit, and larger TD04HL compressors are very prone to pressure spikes upon hitting the boost threshold. The 19T in particular is very difficult to control (with stock BCS or otherwise). This sudden buildup in pressure makes it difficult for the Motronic's safety countermeasures to react quickly enough to end detonation events before they become rod-bending or otherwise damaging.

I would suggest that it is also rather difficult to tune for such moody and violent boost buildup, and although Motronic is a great management system, it runs into problems I think when it goes from 0-20 psi instantly, especially at lower RPM levels.

It's really just a combination of things... Things that might be more correctable at higher RPM levels than low ones. It all boils down to violent detonation events though.

EricF
07-05-2007, 05:05 PM
To answer your question more specifically, or rather to address your setup more specifically..

The 18T is largely acknowledged to be the safest big performance increase turbo for the 850, though the Evo III 16G is supposed to be similar. I think that if you have well synchronized software and hardware setups (you do), and your car is in proper working order, then you should not have any problems.

I ran a 19T for quite awhile with no issues and a final failure unrelated to performance modifications (I also saw a couple boost spikes over 25 psi, for the record). I think the 18T is an even safer bet, and the factory BCS is supposedly able to regulate it very effectively. If I built an 850 to drive daily again, it would have your exact hardware setup (with different software, but that is just a matter of personal taste :) ).

240MAN
07-05-2007, 05:16 PM
Thank you very much Eric, I appreciate the response.

I did get on the car a little today and I thought I could see the boost spiking a little under acceleration. I only took it up to MAYBE 15psi, probably more like 12. Right now I'm not keen on pushing her too hard because I'm leaking quite a bit of coolant, pretty sure it's the waterpump so I'm replacing that and the timing belt shortly. Until then I'm only using the car to go to work and have just little bit of fun in the process :).

Any ideas on how to control the boost spiking? It wasn't that radical but then again I didn't have it floored either. I've read about EBCs, but they are expensive and a lot of people say they are useless. Maybe an MBC?

But man when the boost hit it hit HARD, and I didn't even have it floored! Now if I could fix my speedometer, perhaps get a shift light, I'd be good to go! :)

Anyways, so if I'm reading what you are saying correctly I should be good to go on the stock internals. I'm thinking about going to a dyno and getting some runs in to get the A/F graphs and see how they look and what power I'm putting down, just to be safe.

EricF
07-05-2007, 05:47 PM
Thank you very much Eric, I appreciate the response.

I did get on the car a little today and I thought I could see the boost spiking a little under acceleration. I only took it up to MAYBE 15psi, probably more like 12. Right now I'm not keen on pushing her too hard because I'm leaking quite a bit of coolant, pretty sure it's the waterpump so I'm replacing that and the timing belt shortly. Until then I'm only using the car to go to work and have just little bit of fun in the process :).

Any ideas on how to control the boost spiking? It wasn't that radical but then again I didn't have it floored either. I've read about EBCs, but they are expensive and a lot of people say they are useless. Maybe an MBC?

But man when the boost hit it hit HARD, and I didn't even have it floored! Now if I could fix my speedometer, perhaps get a shift light, I'd be good to go! :)

Anyways, so if I'm reading what you are saying correctly I should be good to go on the stock internals. I'm thinking about going to a dyno and getting some runs in to get the A/F graphs and see how they look and what power I'm putting down, just to be safe.


Yeah, air/fuel is most excellent peace of mind.

As far as spiking... You really won't know how it's truly spiking unless you know how it behaves when floored and what your peak boost level is (spiking is just it going over your peak boost level when boost first comes on). I wouldn't anticipate any spiking with your setup, but there's always a chance.

I would definitely get that timing belt done! And make sure you are certain of where the water is coming from before you just do the waterpump. There a few things in that area that can leak (most common in my experience being the water cooling line for the turbo that is right next to the water pump).

240MAN
07-05-2007, 06:00 PM
Yeah my father and I are pretty sure it's the waterpump, the coolant seems to be all coming from there and we figure we should do the timing belt as well since I can get both for like $75 on ebay from FCP, and I don't know when the previous owner last replaced it.

Anyways, thanks for all the advice Eric. I'll be sure to send you a link once I get some pictures and movies of the car (new exhaust on it right now but gotta fix some rattling). Again, thanks!

yellow95
07-10-2007, 03:24 PM
Yeah my father and I are pretty sure it's the waterpump, the coolant seems to be all coming from there and we figure we should do the timing belt as well since I can get both for like $75 on ebay from FCP, and I don't know when the previous owner last replaced it.

Anyways, thanks for all the advice Eric. I'll be sure to send you a link once I get some pictures and movies of the car (new exhaust on it right now but gotta fix some rattling). Again, thanks!


Sounds like you better sell me that ecu and 18T.;)

Gary

240MAN
07-10-2007, 06:25 PM
Haha yeah right! She sure pulls good. I'm afraid to get on it too much though, there is a broken transmission mount on the bellhousing. :( It's like one thing after another. This happened before we put everything on because I noticed it when I was putting the oil and coolant lines on the turbo from underneath the car. I'd rather not fill it with weld, and just get a new bellhousing instead. Stupid problems.

On a side note, the coolant leak has stopped but I'm replacing the timing belt and waterpump anyways since I purchased them already.

lilfree200
09-10-2007, 09:27 PM
hey...im not sure if anyone really looks at this post anymore but if someone can talk to me and help me i would greatly appreciate it...i have a '95 850 turbo...runs good but im wanting to bump up the speed and power of her so i can show all this people who wanna talk bad about volvo (even though i could beat most of them now):lol: but thanks if you can help

pathfinder
10-04-2007, 11:53 AM
guys

how about mods formula for 2.0 LPT ? only 163bhp. B5204T4

I'm curious about the engine internals,injectors,fuel pump,radiator,intercooler....how much extra power could be added safely with stock parts

thanks

Jcaudill
10-05-2007, 10:29 PM
I have a 98 s70 t5. Is the Evo III 16G a direct bolt on like the 18t? Great post!!!!

Volvo850turbo
01-23-2008, 10:53 PM
how much will it generally cost to replace an automatic tranny with the M59?

Volvo850turbo
01-23-2008, 11:04 PM
how much will it generally cost to replace an automatic tranny with the M59?

Volvo850turbo
01-23-2008, 11:08 PM
i have an automatic 1995 volvo 850 turbo with straight pipe, and K&N Intake..... i would like to swap the auto with a manual M59. how much would this run?

Charles
04-01-2009, 01:51 AM
I know you don't own the 850 anymore Eric but THANKS for this. Answered all of my questions.



:cool:

Ferris Bueller
06-09-2009, 02:07 PM
i have an automatic 1995 volvo 850 turbo with straight pipe, and K&N Intake..... i would like to swap the auto with a manual M59. how much would this run?

If you do all the work, it's around $1,000. If a shop does the job, $$$

Jonty
08-18-2009, 03:25 PM
Gents

I wondered if it will be possible to install a 6-speed gearbox in my '95 T5. I'm having problems with the gearbox I have in her currently (suspecting a broken synchro).
I read that a M66 gearbox can be installed.
My question is How difficult and expensive will it be?

Jonty
08-18-2009, 03:27 PM
Gents

I wondered if it will be possible to install a 6-speed gearbox in my '95 T5. I'm having problems with the gearbox I have in her currently (suspecting a broken synchro).
I read that a M66 gearbox can be installed.
My question is How difficult and expensive will it be?

volvoluvin
08-18-2009, 08:06 PM
If you do all the work, it's around $1,000. If a shop does the job, $$$

I just had a shop do it for me...it was a $1000 worth of labor...

Jonty
08-19-2009, 11:42 AM
Thanx

I'd like to do it myself. What changes should I make to my car in order for the M66 to fit?

Another mod I'd like to make is to fit the GLT cams as some of the guys had suggested. Can anyone
tell me how much performance will improve?

EricF
08-21-2009, 10:17 AM
Thanx

I'd like to do it myself. What changes should I make to my car in order for the M66 to fit?

Another mod I'd like to make is to fit the GLT cams as some of the guys had suggested. Can anyone
tell me how much performance will improve?

I think some folks have done it. The issues you will have is the shifter and cable, and the rear mount. If you can compensate for these issues with fabrication/modification you should be set. You will also need to switch to a different clutch as I believe the later transmission has a slightly skinnier input shaft although it will seem to work it will have too much play (and a guy on here Johann has had the splines shear in an effort to teach this to all of us).

One other possible area of concern is axles, but I don't seem to recall anyone having to make custom axles for this.

jaydubya2003
02-17-2012, 06:02 AM
In my searching for a DD that not only would be fun to drive, but also be practical, sound good with a nice stereo, and also comfortable for my injured back I had many a conversation (deliberation) about 240's with my brother in law (M. Blue 240 on OVT). I came upon the decision months later that an 850 Turbo Wagon was the car for me, they have room, they handle well, and from the couple I've sat in (and from others testimonials) they are pretty comfy. Then with more searching about the recommended first steps on here I had a good idea of what I was getting myself into. But, I began wanting more info. So I did some more looking (through the Googles...lol) I then came across this post. This now has become the bible to my 850 Turbo Wagon/Civic Slayer ;-)

Many thanks to the OP for the very informative post, as well as the way it's been spelled out. Can't wait to get behind the drivers seat!!

ManAboutIt
05-23-2012, 05:03 PM
I wanna know what the better option is between chips or those ECU tunes that ARD, IPD, RICA, and such sell...

This now has become the bible to my 850 Turbo Wagon/Civic Slayer ;-)

A stock 850/x70t (even a 97+ GLT) should slay Civics on its own, all driving skills being equal.

swedishiron.com
05-23-2012, 11:59 PM
Watch Lucky's video on youtube, he explains why the ARD tune is the best:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnpV8nqor7M


I wanna know what the better option is between chips or those ECU tunes that ARD, IPD, RICA, and such sell...

jaydubya2003
10-29-2012, 08:09 PM
I wanna know what the better option is between chips or those ECU tunes that ARD, IPD, RICA, and such sell...



A stock 850/x70t (even a 97+ GLT) should slay Civics on its own, all driving skills being equal.

I spent some time as a younger lad beating up on civics around town in a few different vehicles. So I do understand that, it was more of a figure of speech than anything else. Sorry if you offended...

jaydubya2003
10-31-2012, 05:11 PM
Watch Lucky's video on youtube, he explains why the ARD tune is the best:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnpV8nqor7M

Awesome video, very cool to see the differences between each tune and the usable boost.

csbrianp
01-29-2013, 12:37 AM
First off max boost for all 850 turbo cars is 14.9lbs or 1 bar. Getting more than that is your first mission. Most ecu tunes just allow turbo to reach fuel cut. If you want more that 15 lbs you will have to find a tuner willing to make that happen and he'll want you wallet. The YouTube videos of 500hp 850 turbos are from guys who tune the ecu themselves, I haven't met anyone you can do it to a Volvo.

Second, every 850 turbo should be able to run 14.50's in the 1/4 mile with just a boost controller and the right amount of air pressure in the tires 40 lbs. my 94 850 turbo has run a best 1/4 mile at 13.91' at 102 mph, with just a speedtuningusa chip and a boost controller and different muffler, not a performance pipe (another issue) and smaller front tires for a little more gear. My sons 850 t5r can run with me from a rolling start, but not a standing start mainly do to my tire size, and all it has is a boost controller.

Becareful of exhaust pipe size. 3" down pipe to 2 1/2 out is best. How do I know because I have a friend that wanted a 3" pipe all the way out, the result it builds boost slowly leaving him a sitting duck for car like mine. If you like the way your 850 drives now with the boost coming on strong at 2500 rpms you are going to miss it as soon as you install that larger turbo, and bigger exhaust pipe. And yes it will make more power on top but most fast cars make power everywhere.

I'm currently working on building a set of cam that will move the power up a little bit in the rpm's but should be good of another 15 hp almost everywhere.

Also, for those with a auto transmission that aren't interested in swapping it out for a manual, level 10 transmissions in NJ make a valve body and torque converter that will make your tranny good for about 350 hp.

Brian

1 riktig svensk
01-29-2013, 01:26 AM
Actually...1 bar = 14.50377438972831 PSI



First off max boost for all 850 turbo cars is 14.9lbs or 1 bar.
Brian

Reevesey
03-15-2013, 05:44 PM
I'm looking at fitting a 19t turbo with a billet high flow compression wheel. I have focus mark 2 rs standard injectors 440cc to fit, uprated fuel pump, large 2.5 airtech focus rs upgraded intercooler, k&N air panel filter,s60r downpipe with decat. Full bsr exhaust cat back. The turbo will be fitted onto the standard exhaust turbo exhaust housing. Can u offer any further advice what I need to achieve the 350bhp range? What actuator and psi rate? Want the turbo to hold its boost at high rmp. Do I need to upgrade the cbv spring on the turbo? Do my connection rods need upgrading to forge.? Will porting the cylinder head give any extra bhp. Been told it gives around 20bhp extra by Tim Williams off T5d5 forum here in the UK. Sharp performance will do a custom map already have a stage 2 running on standard parts. Any advice would be helpful. Does having the compressor wheel clipped help with flow? Thanks, phil