MS.....B20 Injectors and Ignition

[ryankalel]

I am getting ready to switch over to Megasquirt and I wanted to get some advice on injectors. Should I stick with the regular Bosch...036 injectors or can I go with something else. I have a B20F head with the injector holes plugged. I am going to take the head into the machine shop and have some valve work done and have those holes unplugged as well.

I also have a XR700 Crane Optical points to electric ignition system. Should I keep that or goes with the EDIS? Which one works better with the Megasquirt system?


thanks for all the help:cool:

[JohnMc]

It's nice to have the ignition advance under the control of MS, which would mean EDIS. The Crane optical system is still leaving the advance up to the weights and springs in the distributor.

I'm not sure how easy it is to hook anything else into those D-jet ports, the advantage to using the D-Jet injectors is that you don't need to fab up anything.

[ryankalel]

It's nice to have the ignition advance under the control of MS, which would mean EDIS. The Crane optical system is still leaving the advance up to the weights and springs in the distributor.

I'm not sure how easy it is to hook anything else into those D-jet ports, the advantage to using the D-Jet injectors is that you don't need to fab up anything.

I am thinking about pulling the crane and doing the EDIS, a little bit of difficulty with the B20 crank setup but manageable.

I have thought about using different injectors and then creating a new fuel rail out of some aluminum stock from places like summit racing. Would also give some bling to the old brick. If I did that I would probably have to get some fuel injector bungs, etc.

thanks again

[JohnMc]

I tired on the bench one time to get MS to recognize the 5V signals from the Crane optical sensor. I was going to use that as the tach signal for MS, and then run the Crane box from MS. Then, once I'd locked down the mechanical advance in the distributor, I could control advance with MS. But MS didn't see the 5V signals, and making it work was beyond my meager electronics knowledge.

You could always do something simple like run the tach signal off the distributor (maybe the coil output of the Crane box), and then run some other ignition controller from the MS output, like an MSD box. Of course, that's a little hokey to have two ignition controllers on the car. Or just put the points back in (although the optical sensor doesn't wear and change all the time)?

[gsellstr]

VS V3 will accept the VR input from the 75 elec. B20 dizzy directly, so it would simply be a matter of locking the advance out, run the signal to the MS, and the MS fires the MSD/Crane/whatever. That's my tenative plan when I get time to get spark control up.

As for injectors, the 036's are expensive, but they're also a LOT more fuel than you'll be needing anytime soon(42-46lb @ 3-bar IIRC). Otherwise the k-jet mounts may accept injectors from the Z cars it looks like. Otherwise I don't know what all would be involved in custom mounts to run stock bosch injectors of your choice. Seems like fidel was working on a B20 rail a while back to run normal bosch stuff but I never heard if that project went anywhere.

[JohnMc]

Yeah, those injectors were designed to work on a 2bar (28 - 32 psi, depending on where you read it) regulator.

[gsellstr]

Really? I gotta read up then. Memory steered me wrong when I tuned MS...
(runs to laptop when possible to check some settings).

[JohnMc]

I'm just talking about D-jet. It used a non-MAP referenced FPR that is set somewhere between 28 and 32 psi. I guess roughly 2 bar. The fuel pressure was adjustable, that was one of the tuning parameters. That's probably not what a Bosch 036 is, Im guessing?

[ryankalel]

As for injectors, the 036's are expensive, but they're also a LOT more fuel than you'll be needing anytime soon(42-46lb @ 3-bar IIRC). Otherwise the k-jet mounts may accept injectors from the Z cars it looks like. Otherwise I don't know what all would be involved in custom mounts to run stock bosch injectors of your choice. Seems like fidel was working on a B20 rail a while back to run normal bosch stuff but I never heard if that project went anywhere.

I was thinking of converting from the hose fuel connection to an o-ring. I don't see why this would not work in that I have a fuel inector bung, if needed, for the injection port and making sure that keep the fuel rail anchored somehow to the head. I just need to find some injectors that will work!!!

thanks again

[gsellstr]

The 036 is the later d-jet injector. They had 024's and 036's (490 and 495cc respectively).

If you can fab up a rail, the rest should be a walk in the park. Maybe running the k-jet injector mounts will get you a place to mount it down to as well if there's nothing on the intake that'll work out.

[B-lennium]

keep the D-jet injector, easy connecting (Hose fitting on top of the injector) use original fuelrail + e-bay pressure regulator
the megasquirt sould be setup as PWM for the low impendance injectors

[ryankalel]

Happy Thanksgiving and thanks for all of the replies.

I went to rockauto and found the Bosch injectors 036 for $195.79 YIKES!!!:roll:

They do have some beck/arnley injectors in the same category for $45. I don't think that I will run into any problems if I use those...will I.

[gsellstr]

Half the time the Beck Arnley is repackaged OE. I've actually grabbed 3-4 SETS of spares when I see them at the yard. Send 6 off to get flowed so I've got 4 good ones and a couple spares. Haven't had an issue with them yet, but for $45 each for new ones they should have fresh hose and the plastic won't be brittle around the connectors.

[vvpete]

Good to hear that the D-Jet injectors are avail outside of Bosch.
Q's: Has anyone used the Crane ign signal to replace the trigger points signal to the computer?
I'm now in progress of re-vamping my 73 144 fuel system and all of this is relavent. I don't know if my current D-Jet works yet, but plan on an alternaitve ign, as I already have the Crane icu. So incorporating the points type of dist converted to Crane is not easy with MS?
Also, I've pulled the injectors and need to have them flow tested. Where can I get that done and how much? Is it worth it if new ones are $45?
As far as changing the injectors, it looks like the 036 are designed with lots of flow, so if you can get them to work with MS as well as an ign, that would be the way to go.
When you say e-bay fpr, is that an aftermarket adjustable replacement, or one that works if other pressures are used?

[gsellstr]

FPR's are pretty adaptable to your specific situation. I'm still running the stock FPR with my 036's, and the stock k-jet pump even! You can get your 036's cleaned for around $15 each. Check out Witchhunter, Cruzin, or RC Engineering. I've used the first two with excellent results and fast turnaround.

As for using the Crane to signal d-jet, good luck. The d-jet points setup in the dizzy is an odd signal to say the least. Triggering MS is cake on mine via the MSD tach output though. I've also got a 75 dizzy in it so there's no points at all. If the crane will take a mag trigger signal, and you're not too concerned about getting the d-jet to work, I'd go that route first off and save yourself a lot of headache and hassle trying to get the crane to fire the d-jet. My eventual plan is to have the mag trigger from the dizzy signal the MS, and the MS trigger the MSD via the white points wire.

[vvpete]

Thanks, so a better choice for a pointy-less ign would be a Pertronix which uses mag pick-up. Oh just more $ to spend.
Whatever I do I want some flexibility so when I go to MS it's plug-& play

The reason why I ask about the fpr is that my return line was clogged, and there's a lot of crud coming out of the fpr, so believe it may be toast. Looking for alternaitves less than $125 OEM fpr.

[Redwood Chair]

Thanks, so a better choice for a pointy-less ign would be a Pertronix which uses mag pick-up. Oh just more $ to spend.
Whatever I do I want some flexibility so when I go to MS it's plug-& play

The reason why I ask about the fpr is that my return line was clogged, and there's a lot of crud coming out of the fpr, so believe it may be toast. Looking for alternaitves less than $125 OEM fpr.

I have an oem fpr for sale.
PM me if interested.

[gsellstr]

I think I've got a spare rail or three as well. :)

I guess I'm a little confused on the plan for the ignition setup. You're looking to replace the points for the ignition trigger but still run d-jet til you get MS ready? If that's the case swap in the crane kit for the ignition and get that all worked out before going MS. Once you go MS, use the tach output from the crane, get your fuel maps running and driveable without messing with the spark control.

THEN when you go for spark control swap the dizzy with a 75 dizzy (with the mech. advance locked of course), run that to the VR pickup on the MS box (assuming you're going MS V3 that is), then feed the MS ignition trigger to the crane signal wire.

[jiminy14]

i used a fuel rail from an b230 and only had to move two injector bungs on the rail to make it line up. i used bosh brown tops and k-jet injector bungs. i think the djet bungs will almost work with the later style injector ( brown tops) . just made a little bracket to hold the rail down and that was it.

[Matt Dupuis]

We used the stock D-jet injectors and fuel rail on Dale's 122, and built an EDIS underdrive crank pulley. Piece of cake.

PM 245gti for more details.

http://www.calgaryvolvoclub.com/gallery/d/6255-2/Pictures+July+18_+2006+058.jpg

http://www.calgaryvolvoclub.com/gallery/d/6300-2/Pictures+July+18_+2006+101.jpg