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View Full Version : Who owns the Fastest Street Legal Volvo Wagon?


Dug strickler
04-28-2008, 06:36 PM
Is it me? Doubt it... Show me some SIQ 5 doors!

Ruben
04-28-2008, 06:37 PM
I guess you mean in the States? 1/4mile wise or HP wise.
In the States you're wagon will probably be the one, well very very fast at least. In Europe, especially Sweden I guess not.

Dug strickler
04-28-2008, 06:38 PM
I guess you mean in the States?

Wherever...

Ruben
04-28-2008, 06:40 PM
Over here dragracing isn't nearly as big as in the states. Which makes it difficult to prove how fast your car is.

DurableSwedish
04-28-2008, 06:55 PM
that yellow/black 745 that a Sweedish magazine made did 11's before it blew up...turbocontainter or somethin?

norcal505
04-28-2008, 06:59 PM
that yellow/black 745 that a Sweedish magazine made did 11's before it blew up...turbocontainter or somethin?
haha INSANE.

GhengisKhan
04-28-2008, 07:06 PM
Mine will rape all your wagons. I am about to put 13mm rods in it - beware!

DurableSwedish
04-28-2008, 07:10 PM
this thing is what i was talking about:
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xPQ5JfJEDjQ&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xPQ5JfJEDjQ&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Dug strickler
04-28-2008, 07:22 PM
this thing is what i was talking about:
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xPQ5JfJEDjQ&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xPQ5JfJEDjQ&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Yea that thing is B.A.D. but I'm talking currently... do I own the title for "The Fastest Street Legal Volvo Wagon in the World"?

the poi
04-28-2008, 07:25 PM
Yea that thing is B.A.D. but I'm talking currently... do I own the title for "The Fastest Street Legal Volvo Wagon in the World"?

Most likely not. The title has more to do with local laws then anything else. The fastest street legal wagon in California is a stock 2004+ V70R, the fastest street legal wagon in ****, I dunno, Brazil is most likely a tube frame blown drag car with a fiberglas 240 wagon body on it.

sdturbo
04-28-2008, 07:39 PM
Its probablly in puerto rico with a quad turbo 4 rotor.

Dug strickler
04-28-2008, 08:20 PM
Most likely not. The title has more to do with local laws then anything else. The fastest street legal wagon in California is a stock 2004+ V70R, the fastest street legal wagon in ****, I dunno, Brazil is most likely a tube frame blown drag car with a fiberglas 240 wagon body on it.

I'm not talking about most likely... I'm asking Where is it? Or do I own it?

BP3
04-28-2008, 08:22 PM
Well, mine doesn't count cause it isn't quite done yet...I think I read somewhere in a post that you were planning om hitting yours with the gas, is that right?...

Mine should put down about 600rwhp once its all together...Made 620bhp on my engine dyno W/O the meth injection...12.0:1 331 all forged, file fit PM rings, main supprt, decked and I spent about 4 days massaging the IRON heads...I wanted to keep it in the realm of "beatable" for those who would want to take a peek under the hood...

Power will make its way to an 8.8" rear that has been narrowed for a mini-tub with COs being run via a Lenntech 4spd AOD...Should have gone MT like you did Dug but since my whole goal is to lift the fronts on the track I decided to make it a dedicated strip/money street car...

The entire interior will be coming out front the front seats backward, cage goes in (tech & weight reasons) and then SFI seats and harnesses...

"Should" be a low 11 second car on DRs and most likely high 10s on slicks...If its not fast enough I give it the gas...

Looks unassuming huh?...

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t226/WildWilDavis/VOLVOWAGON0022.jpg

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t226/WildWilDavis/Progression-004.gif


Another one for fun...This would have made an EXCELLENT piece for your ride Dug...383 all forged making just under 700bhp and LOADS of TQ, Dart heads with all the good bits inside...10.5:1 so it could run on pumpgas or recieve some sort of forced induction...The monster in front of it is a 900bhp BBC, closed chamber heads (Dart Iron Eagle)...That went into a friends Chevelle...

I love the sound of compression!...

I actually raffled this engine off at a roadster show...Thats my Unlce BTW, please excuse his bib-overalls he always wanted to be a train conductor...

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t226/WildWilDavis/th_100_0563.jpg (http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t226/WildWilDavis/?action=view&current=100_0563.flv)

BP3
04-28-2008, 08:23 PM
I'm not talking about most likely... I'm asking Where is it? Or do I own it?

I would say that yours would have to be the fastest at the VERY least in the states!...

fige
04-28-2008, 08:30 PM
Elijah get your car done and give him a run for the title!

volvo740t
04-28-2008, 08:36 PM
Is it me? Doubt it... Show me some SIQ 5 doors!

Conceded much?

Im sure and mostly positive that the people we "do not" know about have way faster cars but just have no time for online forums... nor know about the current ones.

You took the easy way out... throwing in an LS1 and adding 2 turbos. Good ole american way there.

B234f with super large turbo there the fun is. And WAY more efficient.

the poi
04-28-2008, 08:37 PM
I'm not talking about most likely... I'm asking Where is it? Or do I own it?

You'll never know for certain, but it's doubtful. Go ahead and put it in your myface or whatnot though, no one cares enough to prove you wrong:-P

edit:// /\/\ conceited. come on, issac can't be in every thread.

Dug strickler
04-28-2008, 08:59 PM
Conceded much?

Im sure and mostly positive that the people we "do not" know about have way faster cars but just have no time for online forums... nor know about the current ones.

You took the easy way out... throwing in an LS1 and adding 2 turbos. Good ole american way there.

B234f with super large turbo there the fun is. And WAY more efficient.

1. My quote would tell you that I am NOT conceded.
2. Putting a Twin Turbo LS1 in a 740 is NOT easy or "an easy way out"...
3. My TTLS1 put down 544rwhp & gets 28 mpg highway which is way better gas milage than the b230ft or b234f thank you very much!

Luv, Dug.;-)

Dug strickler
04-28-2008, 09:09 PM
<a href="http://s182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/?action=view&current=l_4e412996f56b9c7eedf018fc8f02fad8.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/l_4e412996f56b9c7eedf018fc8f02fad8.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a><a href="http://s182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/?action=view&current=l_b78a9db69509ec3fb046dad2f694c94a.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/l_b78a9db69509ec3fb046dad2f694c94a.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a><a href="http://s182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/?action=view&current=l_b9a0b59f019fc71ca1e4917307830945.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/l_b9a0b59f019fc71ca1e4917307830945.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a><a href="http://s182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/?action=view&current=l_4a48924cd1c72f5b8a51593478e8f984.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/l_4a48924cd1c72f5b8a51593478e8f984.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a><a href="http://s182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/?action=view&current=l_8b10a977a1b34c8e3e4b1666e19b562a.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/l_8b10a977a1b34c8e3e4b1666e19b562a.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a><a href="http://s182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/?action=view&current=l_cd7a466e88cd3515e1a5e0cbc71c1565.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/l_cd7a466e88cd3515e1a5e0cbc71c1565.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

ovlo
04-28-2008, 09:10 PM
Conceded much?

Im sure and mostly positive that the people we "do not" know about have way faster cars but just have no time for online forums... nor know about the current ones.

You took the easy way out... throwing in an LS1 and adding 2 turbos. Good ole american way there.

B234f with super large turbo there the fun is. And WAY more efficient.

he took the easy way out? looks like a lot of work has gone in his car. I would like to see you just throw an ls1 and 2 turbos in anything and make it run or look like anything:rofl::rofl:

norcal505
04-28-2008, 09:19 PM
yeah honestly, i think yours may be the fastest.
i mean, come on, a twin turbo v8? none of us have pockets as deep as yours.:-P:nod:

Dug strickler
04-28-2008, 09:20 PM
yeah honestly, i think yours may be the fastest.
i mean, come on, a twin turbo v8? none of us have pockets as deep as yours.:-P:nod:

Or debt like me...:rofl:

gear whine
04-28-2008, 09:31 PM
<img src="http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/l_cd7a466e88cd3515e1a5e0cbc71c1565.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

bangin.

igor
04-28-2008, 09:42 PM
The fastest street legal wagon in California is a stock 2004+ V70R
I wanna see someone with a pre '75 car prove this wrong.

mAydAy
04-28-2008, 09:47 PM
What did it run last wednesday anyways?


And to all the haters.....oh c'mon. An LS1 is a man's engine, and anything with an LS1 in it is sweet. If I had a little more free time, I would build my dream DD -- LS1/T56 e39.

Dug strickler
04-28-2008, 09:49 PM
What did it run last wednesday anyways?

Only 11.7. Never had a clean run. I will be going again next Wed.

badvlvo
04-28-2008, 09:56 PM
Knowing what I know about LS1's and seeing your dyno numbers, yours is the fastest, you just havent' put that tune on it yet.
544whp with a twin turbo is just gettin gstarted on one of those. There's another 100hp just hanging out with a little more work and some more $$$.

I'll just say yours is the fastest. IMO the LS engines are the best thing GM has developed in 50+ years.

Tom Wiley
04-28-2008, 10:28 PM
Knowing what I know about LS1's and seeing your dyno numbers, yours is the fastest, you just havent' put that tune on it yet.
544whp with a twin turbo is just gettin gstarted on one of those. There's another 100hp just hanging out with a little more work and some more $$$.

I'll just say yours is the fastest. IMO the LS engines are the best thing GM has developed.

agreed.

nalletill1000
04-28-2008, 11:39 PM
I would not call it fastes Volvo due to a bowtie under the hood. It has more in common with a Corvette. I would say problably one of the fastes street legal Volvo belongs to Jens Gustavsson Sweden. It is a 142 with a B20 running 10.68.... Biiiiiig turbo does a lot!!! Might want him to build an engine ;-)

500dollar744ti
04-28-2008, 11:46 PM
probably the OP, although gatti's 745 GN V6 turbo probably moves pretty well. putting a stock grand national into the 10's is not terribly difficult.

dmcgee
04-29-2008, 12:07 AM
Conceded much?

Im sure and mostly positive that the people we "do not" know about have way faster cars but just have no time for online forums... nor know about the current ones.

You took the easy way out... throwing in an LS1 and adding 2 turbos. Good ole american way there.

B234f with super large turbo there the fun is. And WAY more efficient.

+1

he took the easy way out? looks like a lot of work has gone in his car. I would like to see you just throw an ls1 and 2 turbos in anything and make it run or look like anything:rofl::rofl:


Easy when you don't do the work yourself


I hate threads like this when people fish for complements

Poik
04-29-2008, 12:11 AM
I would not call it fastes Volvo due to a bowtie under the hood. It has more in common with a Corvette.
Uh, the longblock. What else?

This thread is full of haters.

adrianpike
04-29-2008, 12:21 AM
Easy when you don't do the work yourself

If it's so easy, why isn't it done more often?

Just because somebody can make more money doing something other than dorking around with their car is no reason to try to put on airs.

edit:// go get a jawb and build yourself an 11-second car. I don't care if it's powered by a goddamn pack of llamas, it's still cool.

nocones
04-29-2008, 12:22 AM
I don't care what anyone else says Dug....that is one sweeta$$ wagon! :cool: I love the crankin it sideways pic! laughed my arse off when I saw it! awesome, awesome awesome!:nod:

nalletill1000
04-29-2008, 01:10 AM
Poik I am not a hater! I think this ride is sweet and I would not mind having it in my drive way. I am just a little bit more strict in my opinion on how and what to compare. If there was a 4.6 32V it would be more like keeping it in the family ;-)

500dollar744ti
04-29-2008, 01:16 AM
If there was a 4.6 32V it would be more like keeping it in the family ;-)

and loosing the race.

volvoluvin
04-29-2008, 01:20 AM
This is retarded , this is why I hate this board sometimes...they amount of hate is just ridiculous. And to say "it's easy when you don't do the work yourself"...go cry on your little pillow of jealousy...

Dug, your car is fantastic, well thought out, and delivered with a fury that few will ever hope to do...

the poi
04-29-2008, 01:26 AM
This is retarded , this is why I hate this board sometimes...they amount of hate is just ridiculous. And to say "it's easy when you don't do the work yourself"...go cry on your little pillow of jealousy...

I don't want to come across as an ******* but come on people, be honest here, **** is easy when you don't do the work yourself. christ. Dug's car is rad for what it is, and if someone doesn't think it's hot ****, maybe, just maybe, it's not because they're jealous, but because they have, and I know this is a apocalyptic proposition, an opinion different from yours! Shocking!

edit:// and to clarify a handful of the above, Dug did most of the work himself didn't he? Other than like, the manifolds and the rear end?

fige
04-29-2008, 01:29 AM
edit:// and to clarify a handful of the above, Dug did most of the work himself didn't he? Other than like, the manifolds and the rear end?

thats what I though...:wtf:

Greg Wong
04-29-2008, 01:30 AM
Yours is definitely up there Dug, but there's competition all over the place. I know a fellow up here who has a supercharged Ford V8 in a 745, it's based on a 347 Dart block. He's also running a 8.8" rear end, but I don't think he's got a set of huge slicks like you've got.

The last he told me, he was making 532 at the wheels, so almost the same as you. Same deal with tune, too, he said that was on a conservative tune, because he's putting alcohol injection on it.

Greg

Tom Wiley
04-29-2008, 01:33 AM
Well its damn fast. that is for sure. Fastest in the world? Doubt it? Top five in the USA I would guess.

m4ld0.^
04-29-2008, 01:36 AM
^ word.

Stereophile33
04-29-2008, 02:10 AM
George Mitchell has a fun wagon in the works. I am curious to know what it has already run.

dmcgee
04-29-2008, 03:07 AM
I don't want to come across as an ******* but come on people, be honest here, **** is easy when you don't do the work yourself. christ. Dug's car is rad for what it is, and if someone doesn't think it's hot ****, maybe, just maybe, it's not because they're jealous, but because they have, and I know this is a apocalyptic proposition, an opinion different from yours! Shocking!

edit:// and to clarify a handful of the above, Dug did most of the work himself didn't he? Other than like, the manifolds and the rear end?

Thanks for the defence poi. I really could not have said it better myself. I was not trying to seem like a prick earlier, but it was my understanding that most of the work on the car was done by somebody other than Dug, which would not take away from how cool the car actually is. I get excited about anything with a turbo, let alone two. I was just irritated by what seemed like Dug fishing for compliments. Yeah, it definitely is a fast car. If you want to say that it is the fastest, by all means do it. Not like anybody here could challenge you. But in my honest opinion I get way more excited when I see a Volvo with a Volvo motor putting down the same horsepower. I just don't have any interest in Chevy motors anymore. If I wanted something with an Ls1, I would just buy a GTO.

Adrian, I have a job and I, like everybody else here, am working on a 11 second car. But at the moment it is nothing more than a b230 and a b234 sitting on my garage floor.:rofl:

Ruben
04-29-2008, 04:21 AM
I think everyone over here has a lot of respect for Dug and his car! It's an extremely cool and an imho beautiful car.
But when talking about how fast it is, in which way would you like to have this tested/proven? John Lane's car is fast, on a dirtroad much faster than yours (not a wagon I know).
Like I said before, the cars that probably will be faster in Europe do not compete in dragracing like you do. It's small over here.
Your car will be in the top 5 fastest street legal Volvo wagons in the States probably. Maybe even fastest streetlegal wagon in the States, outside the States I don't think it's that fast.....
This opinion has nothing to do with how much I respect you and the car, I'm not a hater and could only dream of such performance you've got, but not having a fast car yourself does not mean I can not join in this thread.

Dug strickler
04-29-2008, 06:50 AM
OK so with this thread,

1. No one has showed me a higher HP Volvo Wagon driving around on the streets in the US. That means I am going to utilize that title in the DVD I am making. "The Fastest Volvo Wagon in the United States". That was the purpouse of this thread. NOT to fish for complements.

2. I found out that there is a 532 HP wagon in the Mass area.(Cant wait for pics and video)

3. I did ALL the work myself except for the welding. I'm not a welder. Other than that I did all the wrenching, wireing, funding, ect. I did the funding by a one small bank loan and alot of hard work and sacrifice. I sold about 10 Volvos and Sportbikes of my own in the past 3 years and all the profit that came from them went into the Volvette. I am not rich by any means.

4. Much respect to those who Design and make there own parts. I don't have the experience, equipment or knowledge to do so. Atleast not the hardcore metal fab.

5. Yes Volvo power is nice an complements the car but won't make silly power on low boost. This motor does. I love all Volvos and fast cars. I just decided to mix the two differenty and tastefully. Seeing a Volvo with a Powerful Volvo motor has been done before(even by me believe it or not, before I ever even joined T-Bricks). A TT Volvette has not. That is what makes my car stand out from the crowd.

And if there is other crazy Volvo Wagons out there... (which I know there is) LETS SEE EM!

Fake-R
04-29-2008, 07:02 AM
Actually, what about the Volvo "Death Wagon" that went on ebay awhile back? The one with the SR20DET? I think that thing was making alot of power too...

Volvorules
04-29-2008, 07:16 AM
OK so with this thread,

1. No one has showed me a higher HP Volvo Wagon driving around on the streets in the US. That means I am going to utilize that title in the DVD I am making. "The Fastest Volvo Wagon in the United States". That was the purpouse of this thread. NOT to fish for complements.

Most HP does not equal fastest. I can't get on photobucket now to link to my timeslip, but my 242 is quicker than your car in the 1/8th mile. I'm just sayin:)

Your car is way badass, no question. Gotta get more seat time at the strip and I'm sure you'll blow my car away!

Blackbrick
04-29-2008, 08:55 AM
I'm certainly not discouraging you from using that title Dug, but a quick you tube search turned up this one.
May well be worth investigating.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vs100JqQGuw&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vs100JqQGuw&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Dug strickler
04-29-2008, 09:13 AM
Most HP does not equal fastest. I can't get on photobucket now to link to my timeslip, but my 242 is quicker than your car in the 1/8th mile. I'm just sayin:)

Your car is way badass, no question. Gotta get more seat time at the strip and I'm sure you'll blow my car away!

Yea Rob, your car can probably handle ALOT better than mine too. I'm talkin Wagons though.
P.S. I have a free pass for you to run your car at the track Friday Night May 16th. Message me for more info.

I'm certainly not discouraging you from using that title Dug, but a quick you tube search turned up this one.
May well be worth investigating.

Yea that wagon is SICK! What happened to it? Who ownes it? Where is it now? I know that it was built right and had rumers of having over 80k into it. I WANT MORE INFO!!!

Blackbrick
04-29-2008, 09:14 AM
Wish I knew where to find it for ya.

Found this on streetfire.
http://thumbs.streetfire.net/e6adff4c-5b80-4c35-9b50-980b01242777.jpg (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Volvo-745-Turbo_61806.htm)Volvo 745 Turbo (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Volvo-745-Turbo_61806.htm)

Dug strickler
04-29-2008, 09:18 AM
And how can we forget THIS one!?!

v8volvoman1
04-29-2008, 09:21 AM
I'm certainly not discouraging you from using that title Dug, but a quick you tube search turned up this one.
May well be worth investigating.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vs100JqQGuw&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vs100JqQGuw&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

That is Simon Dodds Car. I think it has a turbochraged corvette engine in it as well.

Dug strickler
04-29-2008, 09:27 AM
That is Simon Dodds Car. I think it has a turbochraged corvette engine in it as well.

I thought it was a Supercharged LT1... older Vette motor.

500dollar744ti
04-29-2008, 09:55 AM
I thought it was a Supercharged LT1... older Vette motor.

i am sure there are a few volvo wagons around that would give you a run for your money with the current setup. however all you need to do it raise the boost and tune for it and be back on top, wayy up top. :)

Dug strickler
04-29-2008, 10:38 AM
i am sure there are a few volvo wagons around that would give you a run for your money with the current setup. however all you need to do it raise the boost and tune for it and be back on top, wayy up top. :)

I am 100% limited by my Stock 10.5 comp motor.

Hagar17
04-29-2008, 10:44 AM
All these crazy wagons inspire me...love the stock interior Dug! It's nice when it's all Volvo power but nonetheless these are great cars and inspired works of art!
Perhaps you should do a DVD "Searching for the fastest Volvo wagon in the world"

Go big or go home! :-P

Ruben
04-29-2008, 10:47 AM
I am 100% limited by my Stock 10.5 comp motor.

Run E85....

linuxman51
04-29-2008, 10:51 AM
it'll break. its not the compression ratio so much as it is just bottom end strength.

H.M.S
04-29-2008, 11:12 AM
it'll break. its not the compression ratio so much as it is just bottom end strength.

i sense a rebuild brewing!!:-P

Dug strickler
04-29-2008, 11:18 AM
i sense a rebuild brewing!!:-P

Yes low compression + bigger injectors X tune = 1000hp.

Blackbrick
04-29-2008, 11:22 AM
And a cage to keep the damn thing from bending in half...

Citysurf740
04-29-2008, 11:43 AM
Doug your car is the fastest straight out, now I think Kenny has the fastest Volvo power period. now both of your guys cars are awesome, no doubt, I think that you are the fastest wagon in the country, the guy from Mass has a sick 740, I cant remember if it was a wagon or not, but has a small block ford engine with a super charger. I seen this in person, its ok, I think yours is so much cooler.

linuxman51
04-29-2008, 11:51 AM
Doug your car is the fastest straight out, now I think Kenny has the fastest Volvo power period. now both of your guys cars are awesome, no doubt, I think that you are the fastest wagon in the country, the guy from Mass has a sick 740, I cant remember if it was a wagon or not, but has a small block ford engine with a super charger. I seen this in person, its ok, I think yours is so much cooler.

Mine does alright, Doug should have no problems screaming by, well, pretty much anyone on the forum with his setup once he puts some decent rodz n slugz in it hahaha

Greg Wong
04-29-2008, 12:16 PM
That is Simon Dodds Car. I think it has a turbochraged corvette engine in it as well.

That's not Simon's car. That video is a 960 in Sweden, and it's supercharged.

Citysurf740
04-29-2008, 12:34 PM
Greg has a nice 240 v8. I cant tell how fast it is but is really nice car.

Citysurf740
04-29-2008, 12:37 PM
Mine does alright, Doug should have no problems screaming by, well, pretty much anyone on the forum with his setup once he puts some decent rodz n slugz in it hahaha

you are so modest kid, you know you stuff, and your car screams... one day i will be somewhat close to yours.

SinisterMoose
04-29-2008, 12:50 PM
3. My TTLS1 put down 544rwhp & gets 28 mpg highway which is way better gas milage than the b230ft or b234f thank you very much!

Luv, Dug.;-)

Okay, I was with you until that quote. My B230ft 745 may only have 170hp, but I will call foul on your statement that your ttLS1 gets better mileage than a B230ft. I average 33MPG on the interstate and provided I drive normally I get about 20MPG around town.

There's no question that you've got a fantastic wagon there. But using the phrase "better gas mileage" when comparing an LS1 to any properly tuned and well maintained Volvo 4 cylinder is stepping over the line.

My LT1 powered Land Yacht ('96 Impala SS) gets 25MPG on the highway, and about 8MPG in town. Putting that engine in my Wagon, wouldn't reduce the load on the engine enough to get it anywhere near 30MPG.

I'm not trying to be a dick, because I do think you have an inspirational wagon and one I admire. However My wagon gets better mileage than yours. You can certainly claim a number of things, but improved mileage isn't one of them. :)

MrBill
04-29-2008, 12:55 PM
Okay, I was with you until that quote. My B230ft 745 may only have 170hp, but I will call foul on your statement that your ttLS1 gets better mileage than a B230ft. I average 33MPG on the interstate and provided I drive normally I get about 20MPG around town.

There's no question that you've got a fantastic wagon there. But using the phrase "better gas mileage" when comparing an LS1 to any properly tuned and well maintained Volvo 4 cylinder is stepping over the line.

My LT1 powered Land Yacht ('96 Impala SS) gets 25MPG on the highway, and about 8MPG in town. Putting that engine in my Wagon, wouldn't reduce the load on the engine enough to get it anywhere near 30MPG.

I'm not trying to be a dick, because I do think you have an inspirational wagon and one I admire. However My wagon gets better mileage than yours. You can certainly claim a number of things, but improved mileage isn't one of them. :)

your impala lacks a t56 w/.5 OD

Dug strickler
04-29-2008, 01:03 PM
Okay, I was with you until that quote. My B230ft 745 may only have 170hp, but I will call foul on your statement that your ttLS1 gets better mileage than a B230ft. I average 33MPG on the interstate and provided I drive normally I get about 20MPG around town.

There's no question that you've got a fantastic wagon there. But using the phrase "better gas mileage" when comparing an LS1 to any properly tuned and well maintained Volvo 4 cylinder is stepping over the line.

My LT1 powered Land Yacht ('96 Impala SS) gets 25MPG on the highway, and about 8MPG in town. Putting that engine in my Wagon, wouldn't reduce the load on the engine enough to get it anywhere near 30MPG.

I'm not trying to be a dick, because I do think you have an inspirational wagon and one I admire. However My wagon gets better mileage than yours. You can certainly claim a number of things, but improved mileage isn't one of them. :)

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/6874.shtml

http://www.autobeat.com/index.cfm?page=4&INVENTORY_ID=2331149

linuxman51
04-29-2008, 01:08 PM
I'm not trying to be a dick, because I do think you have an inspirational wagon and one I admire. However My wagon gets better mileage than yours. You can certainly claim a number of things, but improved mileage isn't one of them. :)

actually corvettes get really good mileage stock, it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that with some tuning the economy would improve.

SinisterMoose
04-29-2008, 01:09 PM
your impala lacks a t56 w/.5 OD

Oh believe me, I would love to install a T56 in that behemoth. But, I'm done with the work on it, after all of the required mods to keep it running problem free. I'm tired of listening to the rattles, squeaks and noises inside the Impala. I rarely drive it. My 740 Wagon has much less noise inside even though it's an '88. GM made great engines, but it seems like everything in the interior came loose at about 97K miles. Now at 137K hitting a pebble on the road sets off a symphony of interior noises that drive me out of my mind.

SinisterMoose
04-29-2008, 01:22 PM
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/6874.shtml

http://www.autobeat.com/index.cfm?page=4&INVENTORY_ID=2331149

Neither of those prove that your TWIN TURBO LS1 (Which Chevy has yet to factory produce) gets better mileage than my wagon. Find the specs on a 740 turbo intercooled Wagon with an M46OD. That Fueleconomy.gov listing is for an automatic.

Using the same fueleconomy.gov site a 1999 Corvette 6 Speed Manual is listed at 16 City, and 26 Highway.

A 1988 Volvo 740/760 Turbo Wagon 4 Speed Manual (Without Overdrive) is listed at 18 City, 23 Highway.

I'm well aware of the ability of corvettes to get amazing mileage, but you're attempting to compare apples to oranges. Your 500+ HP simply requires more fuel to produce, and adding turbos onto an efficient engine isn't going to decrease the amount of fuel it needs.

Sp3aK
04-29-2008, 01:24 PM
When I was working at the performance shop I had a few customers say they squeezed out 30mpg in a vette on a highway trip. Of course these were 6spd cars not autos. My bosses stock'ish (air intake and catback at the time) 2002 vette 6spd got 28mpg on a trip back from Maryland once... I know because I drove it, lol.

Anyways I've seen a few people mention turning the boost up etc. etc.... Unfortunately these motors STOCK are limited to about 600whp before things start to get kind of dicey. At least bottom end wise.... We had a customer that we tuned to 620whp (supercharged vette, LS1 of course), with modest timing and alcohol injection as well and it only lasted for a few days before the bottom end gave out. Now, that said I don't want to hear **** about people saying, "well my so-n-so's brothers cousins best friends uncle got 800hp on a stock motor!" -- Whatever, who the hell cares, I'm just saying it gets kind of sketchy, and I personally wouldn't trust it too much.. but that doesn't mean it can't happen.

Now, build the bottom end, sky's the limit... well money too ;) -- Again, this has been stated, but more track time will or SHOULD yield much better numbers, and more money will be more power.

And Dug bring y0 sh*t down here to NC and I'll run you in the wagon. I took the yellow reflectors out of my turn signals and put on a cone filter.... I'll show you whats up ;)

linuxman51
04-29-2008, 02:14 PM
Neither of those prove that your TWIN TURBO LS1 (Which Chevy has yet to factory produce) gets better mileage than my wagon. Find the specs on a 740 turbo intercooled Wagon with an M46OD. That Fueleconomy.gov listing is for an automatic.

Using the same fueleconomy.gov site a 1999 Corvette 6 Speed Manual is listed at 16 City, and 26 Highway.

A 1988 Volvo 740/760 Turbo Wagon 4 Speed Manual (Without Overdrive) is listed at 18 City, 23 Highway.

I'm well aware of the ability of corvettes to get amazing mileage, but you're attempting to compare apples to oranges. Your 500+ HP simply requires more fuel to produce, and adding turbos onto an efficient engine isn't going to decrease the amount of fuel it needs.

They didn't sell a 4 speed without overdrive, so you can stuff that, and his 500hp engine only requires 500hp worth of fuel at full bore, not cruising down the road. Ya know, kinda like your 160hp engine isn't generating 160 hp at cruise either... So, Shut the **** up. K? Thnx.

SinisterMoose
04-29-2008, 02:28 PM
They didn't sell a 4 speed without overdrive, so you can stuff that, and his 500hp engine only requires 500hp worth of fuel at full bore, not cruising down the road. Ya know, kinda like your 160hp engine isn't generating 160 hp at cruise either... So, Shut the **** up. K? Thnx.

Wow! Eloquent. To the point, but I've always had a problem shutting the **** up. So you're argument is that a modified twin turbo LS1 uses less fuel than a stock b230ft? Okay. You win, I guess I'm imaging things on my three weekly 180 mile round trips that use only 5.5 gallons in 180 miles.

Again, I'm not trying to be a dick about it but obviously I've pissed in your cheerios for some reason, but Dug can't claim his car with that engine, gets better mileage than my car with my b230ft.

So how about you shut the **** up. Okay?

volvoluvin
04-29-2008, 02:34 PM
And how can we forget THIS one!?!
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/buggabean/2451894757/" title="Coolest Wagon Volvo EVER by buggabean, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3082/2451894757_cc2f122839_o.jpg" width="800" height="600" alt="Coolest Wagon Volvo EVER" /></a>
To bring this back to a place of sanity...

I want more info on this wagon?? Anyone?? Bueller?

Poik
04-29-2008, 02:35 PM
Why can't he? His car is most likely lighter than a Camaro by a couple hundred pounds which also gets 28mpg highway. Plus his engine has headers and some other stuff that makes it more efficient. He's going down the road at 1500rpm, you are cruising down probably close to 3k. Stop with the jealously, just because an engine is bigger doesn't mean it is less efficient, that's ricer talk.

Karl Buchka
04-29-2008, 02:38 PM
Wow! Eloquent. To the point, but I've always had a problem shutting the **** up. So you're argument is that a modified twin turbo LS1 uses less fuel than a stock b230ft? Okay. You win, I guess I'm imaging things on my three weekly 180 mile round trips that use only 5.5 gallons in 180 miles.

Again, I'm not trying to be a dick about it but obviously I've pissed in your cheerios for some reason, but Dug can't claim his car with that engine, gets better mileage than my car with my b230ft.

So how about you shut the **** up. Okay?

If you're cruising steady state on the highway, you aren't making boost. Your "WITH TWIN TURBOS" argument is completely pointless. You said yourself that a 1999 Corvette gets better mileage. You proved yourself wrong.

Dug strickler
04-29-2008, 02:38 PM
Wow! Eloquent. To the point, but I've always had a problem shutting the **** up. So you're argument is that a modified twin turbo LS1 uses less fuel than a stock b230ft? Okay. You win, I guess I'm imaging things on my three weekly 180 mile round trips that use only 5.5 gallons in 180 miles.

Again, I'm not trying to be a dick about it but obviously I've pissed in your cheerios for some reason, but Dug can't claim his car with that engine, gets better mileage than my car with my b230ft.

So how about you shut the **** up. Okay?

Lets all calm down. I get 28 highway and you get 33 highway. I dyno'd at 544 and you dyno'd at ________. Why are we aguing about performance/gas milage anyway? Anybody that wants huge power isn't going to mind my 28mpg to your 33mpg.

Dug strickler
04-29-2008, 02:42 PM
If you're cruising steady state on the highway, you aren't making boost. Your "WITH TWIN TURBOS" argument is completely pointless. You said yourself that a 1999 Corvette gets better mileage. You proved yourself wrong.

Your right! The Volvo b230ft gets better gas milage! It also has less than HALF the power. Great!

I used to have a 300hp b230ft... and I like my new Motor better.

Dug strickler
04-29-2008, 02:47 PM
What happend to this SIQ wagon?
<a href="http://s182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/?action=view&current=Picture108.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/Picture108.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a><a href="http://s182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/?action=view&current=Picture114.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/Picture114.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

SinisterMoose
04-29-2008, 02:56 PM
Lets all calm down. I get 28 highway and you get 33 highway. I dyno'd at 544 and you dyno'd at ________. Why are we aguing about performance/gas milage anyway? Anybody that wants huge power isn't going to mind my 28mpg to your 33mpg.

Dug, I never intended to slight you or your wagon in any way, but you claimed to get better mileage than all b230ft engines. I disagreed. Of course you're gonna have boatloads more power, my only argument was that your earlier comment about your engine getting better mileage than a b230ft isn't accurate, it may get better mileage than some, but not all. I would be surprised if my b230ft managed to pull 170 on the dyno even with the few mods. Hell, I applaud your work on your wagon and think you've raised the bar for all us wagon owners. Getting that engine, in that brick to make anything over 28MPG is gravy. I've had 500HP Porsches that wouldn't get 20MPG being towed downhill.

The biggest problem with this board is people getting into pissing contests, over bull****. You built a bitchin' wagon, congrats. But I still get better mileage. :-P

Dug strickler
04-29-2008, 02:58 PM
Dug, I never intended to slight you or your wagon in any way, but you claimed to get better mileage than all b230ft engines. I disagreed. Of course you're gonna have boatloads more power, my only argument was that your earlier comment about your engine getting better mileage than a b230ft isn't accurate, it may get better mileage than some, but not all. I would be surprised if my b230ft managed to pull 170 on the dyno even with the few mods. Hell, I applaud your work on your wagon and think you've raised the bar for all us wagon owners. Getting that engine, in that brick to make anything over 28MPG is gravy. I've had 500HP Porsches that wouldn't get 20MPG being towed downhill.

The biggest problem with this board is people getting into pissing contests, over bull****. You built a bitchin' wagon, congrats. But I still get better mileage. :-P

Well said.

Sp3aK
04-29-2008, 03:14 PM
A-Team represent....

500dollar744ti
04-29-2008, 03:14 PM
Neither of those prove that your TWIN TURBO LS1 (Which Chevy has yet to factory produce) gets better mileage than my wagon. Find the specs on a 740 turbo intercooled Wagon with an M46OD. That Fueleconomy.gov listing is for an automatic.

and nothing will prove that your stock b230ft gets better economy than my un-stock diesel 240. :-P

either way the point is mute, Dug's car wasn't built on the fuel economy pretense, that is just a byproduct.

SinisterMoose
04-29-2008, 03:51 PM
and nothing will prove that your stock b230ft gets better economy than my un-stock diesel 240. :-P

either way the point is mute, Dug's car wasn't built on the fuel economy pretense, that is just a byproduct.

Mmmm, I do love a good diesel. :nod:

badvlvo
04-29-2008, 04:00 PM
I have seen LS1 powered cars get 25+ mpg even with turbo's, superchargers, heads, cams, etc. The last LS1 car I took on a trip was an 02 WS6 Trans Am automatic with headers, midpipe, exhaust, SLP heads and cam, larger MAF and TB, modded airbox, coolant bypass @ tb, 3.90 gears and a programmer.

It got 25mpg @ an average of 80mph from Reno to Las Vegas. To average that with a fuel/toilet/smoke/snack stop in the middle on a mostly 2 lane road with little towns with 35mph speed limits on the way means we were really making the best of things when we had open road. The car would also get 27+ when we weren't beating on it and would get about 22 in town.

Pretty damn good for a car that runs 12.20's with the AC on.

SO I don't dount that Dugs car can get the mileage. And like I have said before, there's more HP available in that setup that isn't realized yet.

Try that with a B230.

linuxman51
04-29-2008, 04:14 PM
I have seen LS1 powered cars get 25+ mpg even with turbo's, superchargers, heads, cams, etc. The last LS1 car I took on a trip was an 02 WS6 Trans Am automatic with headers, midpipe, exhaust, SLP heads and cam, larger MAF and TB, modded airbox, coolant bypass @ tb, 3.90 gears and a programmer.

It got 25mpg @ an average of 80mph from Reno to Las Vegas. To average that with a fuel/toilet/smoke/snack stop in the middle on a mostly 2 lane road with little towns with 35mph speed limits on the way means we were really making the best of things when we had open road. The car would also get 27+ when we weren't beating on it and would get about 22 in town.

Pretty damn good for a car that runs 12.20's with the AC on.

SO I don't dount that Dugs car can get the mileage. And like I have said before, there's more HP available in that setup that isn't realized yet.

Try that with a B230.

I rocked 32mpg including track time with the 16v car. Well tuned. I've also rocked in excess of 28 with a reasonably powerful b230f+t, again, well tuned. Its a rare event to see a b230ft car with stock management driven even slightly more than grandma-esque get better than about 24.

Given that the v8 will make more torque at a lower throttle angle than a small 4 cylinder...

Ah whatever. the people arguing against really don't know what the **** they're talking about I really don't know why I bother.

Bigbegum69
04-29-2008, 04:27 PM
my volvo is faster, but its a two door not a wagon...:-P

11.19@120.74

drove it 100+ miles to the racetrack, raced it, drove it home.

linuxman51
04-29-2008, 04:33 PM
my volvo is faster, but its a two door not a wagon...:-P

11.19@120.74

drove it 100+ miles to the racetrack, raced it, drove it home.

yeah, but anymore to take part in this conversation we're gonna need to know some particulars about its fuel economy.

DurableSwedish
04-29-2008, 04:33 PM
is this a MPG argument in a "fastest wagon " thread? :roll:

Fuse
04-29-2008, 04:38 PM
Well the VX Amazon has run 10,83 /202 km/h

It's got the finished interior now btw.. no more exposed gearbox etc... It was at American Car/Tuning car Show here at Helsinki Finland about a month ago.. took some pics maybe I should upload some.


5. Yes Volvo power is nice an complements the car but won't make silly power on low boost.

Depends.. what's silly power and what's low boost. :-P

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Kulmamies/16v%20turbo/

That Amazon dynoed 422hp/539nm @ 0.8bar and 496hv / 597nm @ 1.2bar. I think ~1bar is still quite a normal level of boost.

igor
04-29-2008, 05:14 PM
That Amazon dynoed 422hp/539nm @ 0.8bar and 496hv / 597nm @ 1.2bar. I think ~1bar is still quite a normal level of boost.
I love that car. And he makes it look almost stock!

And yes, pics of the finished VX Amazon please. Surely there must exist video of that thing in action too?

tequila_gundam_no_chaser
04-29-2008, 05:33 PM
I rocked 32mpg including track time with the 16v car. Well tuned. I've also rocked in excess of 28 with a reasonably powerful b230f+t, again, well tuned. Its a rare event to see a b230ft car with stock management driven even slightly more than grandma-esque get better than about 24.

Given that the v8 will make more torque at a lower throttle angle than a small 4 cylinder...

Ah whatever. the people arguing against really don't know what the **** they're talking about I really don't know why I bother.

too true. A good tune on my b230 is rocking out at close to 27mpg when driven with care on the highway, going through this aw71l.

davashcow
04-29-2008, 09:26 PM
Not many folks get 33 mpg out of a b230ft in a wagon. Not even drafting. Maybe your calculator is a Democrat.

My 1991 745t got 24 mpg highway with the 230ft. I doubled the cylinders and displacement and now she gets 26 mpg.

I like my 5.0 just a little better than the 2.3

Dug strickler
04-29-2008, 09:51 PM
my volvo is faster, but its a two door not a wagon...:-P

11.19@120.74

drove it 100+ miles to the racetrack, raced it, drove it home.

Thats really good!... My beast trapped at 125mph so hopefully I can get those times down tomarrow. Anyone down for going to Cecil tomarrow?

crandandall
04-29-2008, 09:56 PM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3082/2451894757_cc2f122839_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/buggabean/2451894757/)
To bring this back to a place of sanity...

I want more info on this wagon?? Anyone?? Bueller?

Here's a pic of the fact sheet that I took when I was at SEMA. The car is outrageous.
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/5505/dscf3890zt4.jpg

B-dub
04-29-2008, 10:20 PM
I have the fastest wagon.
\thread.
P.S. Dug your wagon is sick, as in phat, as in the sh!t, as in bad a$$, as in who cares what crap is talked 'cus you'll smoke anyone on here who talks it(except me).

Greg Wong
04-29-2008, 11:20 PM
I think you should go ahead and say your wagon is the fastest Volvo wagon in the US. Then make people prove you wrong.

Here's some pics of the guy from MA. It's a 740, painted in a Chrysler color. These are older pics, so for instance, the brakes are now a custom Baer setup, and the rear tires are 255/40R17.

http://users.rcn.com/gwong76/DSC00133.jpg

Halon(?) bottle where the original gas tank was
http://users.rcn.com/gwong76/DSC00134.jpg

A couple of the fire system ports
http://users.rcn.com/gwong76/DSC00135.jpg
http://users.rcn.com/gwong76/DSC00136.jpg

http://users.rcn.com/gwong76/DSC00137.jpg

http://users.rcn.com/gwong76/DSC00138.jpg

FattMatt805
04-29-2008, 11:25 PM
i think you win, and you totoaly whomp my 855 in gas mileage

Oreo931
04-29-2008, 11:45 PM
I want to come to Cecil and watch you run but I have a statistics test tomorrow from 5-7 :(. Are you going to go the Wednesday before Carlisle? My new motor will be in by then, and I will be itching to see what I will run.

dmcgee
04-30-2008, 01:38 AM
What happend to this SIQ wagon?
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/Picture108.jpg (http://s182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/?action=view&current=Picture108.jpg)http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/Picture114.jpg (http://s182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/?action=view&current=Picture114.jpg)

I believe that car resides in Houston.

Seriously, can we not just spell it sick. The whole SIQ thing is getting pretty old..

Vol242vo
04-30-2008, 02:53 AM
Seriously, can we not just spell it sick. The whole SIQ thing is getting pretty old..

Damn Sastwat! Get your titties out of the wringer...

Dug strickler
04-30-2008, 08:00 AM
I think you should go ahead and say your wagon is the fastest Volvo wagon in the US. Then make people prove you wrong.

Here's some pics of the guy from MA. It's a 740, painted in a Chrysler color. These are older pics, so for instance, the brakes are now a custom Baer setup, and the rear tires are 255/40R17.


http://users.rcn.com/gwong76/DSC00137.jpg

http://users.rcn.com/gwong76/DSC00138.jpg

Needs moar meats. That would be siq. I LUV THAT CAR. More more more!

matt b
04-30-2008, 10:38 AM
What happend to this SIQ wagon?

As far as I know, Aaron's wagon is still in Houston. Pras also has his in TX. But neither wagon comes close to the 500 hp mark.

Dug strickler
04-30-2008, 10:58 AM
As far as I know, Aaron's wagon is still in Houston. Pras also has his in TX. But neither wagon comes close to the 500 hp mark.

I thought that black one was going to be up there...

dmcgee
04-30-2008, 12:08 PM
Damn Sastwat! Get your titties out of the wringer...

I just need to leave this thread..:oops:

FattMatt805
04-30-2008, 11:03 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7eKvAyjWY4, i didnt see any time, but it says 10.10, and thats damn fast for wwd

*edit* NOT a wagon, sorry...but still fast as hellz

Fuse
05-01-2008, 04:45 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7eKvAyjWY4, i didnt see any time, but it says 10.10, and thats damn fast for wwd

*edit* NOT a wagon, sorry...but still fast as hellz

Yeah and the trap speed 244km/h :omg:

That engine was previously in an Opel/Vauxhall Ascona. :-P

www.ttaracing.se

matt b
05-01-2008, 08:00 AM
I thought that black one was going to be up there...
Should be, when it's done but Aaron has been MIA from VS for a while, so I have no idea what's going on with it. And even with "up there", I think he was still going to be below 450 bhp.

Chigga 744SE
05-01-2008, 10:04 AM
I think this was the fastest 4cyl one, ran 9.93 at time of that issue, I think it got faster.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k65/themadchigga/Volvos/bilsport1.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k65/themadchigga/Volvos/bilsport3.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k65/themadchigga/Volvos/bilsport2.jpg

Karl Buchka
05-01-2008, 10:09 AM
^^ And all that with a blowthough carb setup.

EricF
05-01-2008, 10:09 AM
There's the blue wagon here in FL that I think is in the 9s now. Turbo 4 16 valve with a powerglide I believe.

Chigga 744SE
05-01-2008, 10:19 AM
There's the blue wagon here in FL that I think is in the 9s now. Turbo 4 16 valve with a powerglide I believe.

this car?

I think it had B230FT in this pic.

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/12/web/132000-132999/132073_64_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/12/web/132000-132999/132073_63_full.jpg

Dug strickler
05-01-2008, 10:25 AM
this car?

I think it had B230FT in this pic.

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/12/web/132000-132999/132073_64_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/12/web/132000-132999/132073_63_full.jpg

Thats sick! Any more info? Is it still around.

FattMatt805
05-01-2008, 03:17 PM
the strut brace on that thing looks beefcake:rofl:

the poi
05-01-2008, 03:23 PM
the strut brace on that thing looks beefcake:rofl:

Ha, what the ****?

Poik
05-01-2008, 03:40 PM
Is that just a piece of flat bar with 2 holes drilled in it?

Karl Buchka
05-01-2008, 03:42 PM
Is that just a piece of flat bar with 2 holes drilled in it?

It's that Amurikan Injurneering.

linuxman51
05-01-2008, 04:17 PM
Thats sick! Any more info? Is it still around.

yes. Everton Biggs. Last was discussed, it has a ford C4 and 8.8 in it, and it makes buukuu power.

FattMatt805
05-01-2008, 10:52 PM
Is that just a piece of flat bar with 2 holes drilled in it?

looks like it:rofl:, i need to get me one of those!

linuxman51
05-02-2008, 12:00 AM
It's that Amurikan Injurneering.

he's an islander actually iirc ;-)

norcal505
05-02-2008, 12:31 AM
he's an islander actually iirc ;-)
wtf?
what's up with Puerto Ricans having the sickest Volvos in North America??:-P
No-seriously. They ARE the nicest.

Dug strickler
05-02-2008, 03:05 AM
yes. Everton Biggs. Last was discussed, it has a ford C4 and 8.8 in it, and it makes buukuu power.

I WANT TO SEE MOAR NOW! We need updated photos. And new pics of that red wagon STAT!!!

Vol242vo
05-02-2008, 11:08 AM
the strut brace on that thing looks beefcake:rofl:

I really doubt that is there as a strut brace. Looks like there are 2 rubber blocks, one on the flat bar and another just behind. My assumption is that they are there to help put the hood on without damaging anything.

With power that they have I doubt they would use a thin piece of flat bar with 1 bolt one each side as a strut brace...

pwschuh
05-02-2008, 12:32 PM
It's strictly a drag car so it doesn't need a sophisticated strut brace; just enough to stabilize the front end that may have been otherwise lightened. I suspect it may serve multiple purposes.

Deimos
05-03-2008, 12:20 AM
Hm... I wonder if removing the hatch and installing a bunch of rockets would be "street legal"

Dug strickler
05-03-2008, 01:36 AM
Hm... I wonder if removing the hatch and installing a bunch of rockets would be "street legal"

Actually, it might be. As long as you don't use them on the street your cool.

V8BRICK
05-19-2008, 04:49 PM
Elijah get your car done and give him a run for the title!

Ahhh yes I need to finish mine. I will be shooting for near as I can get to 600whp on pump gas weee and if it blows I guess I'd have to put the 351w shortblock together, hurray for cheap parts, boo for no time to play.

Dug strickler
05-19-2008, 05:10 PM
Giggity goo I forgot about this car!

Mark
05-19-2008, 09:03 PM
got tpi
got big injectors (thanks Poik btw- the "spark plugs" showed up just fine :lol:)
got turbo planz
got no time
got no $$ right now either- anyone know any GVRD VFX studios that need a junior pipeline TD/ 3d generalist? I'm sick of where I am.
Half finished junk, no money- I truly have become a tbricker :-(

Yer wagon rocks Dug.

V8brick, was yours the wagon that got dropped off the car carrier? Whoever that was it was a heartbreaker.

M.

V8BRICK
05-20-2008, 10:01 AM
Nah mine didn't fall off a car carrier, though it looked like it could have, rusty and dented everywhere. I tore it all down when the rear end decided to unweld and grind itself into a sack of metal chunks. Then I just got carried away wanting a different chassis, wheel setup, and true 5.0 roller block, taken waaay too long to do. You've got me beat right now Dug for sure. Maybe the factory forged pistons will help me get up a little higher, transmission will probably explode first lol

Zeeall
05-20-2008, 10:58 AM
that yellow/black 745 is even faster now, running on pure ethanol and bigger(yes, bigger) turbo

Dug strickler
05-20-2008, 11:51 AM
Nah mine didn't fall off a car carrier, though it looked like it could have, rusty and dented everywhere. I tore it all down when the rear end decided to unweld and grind itself into a sack of metal chunks. Then I just got carried away wanting a different chassis, wheel setup, and true 5.0 roller block, taken waaay too long to do. You've got me beat right now Dug for sure. Maybe the factory forged pistons will help me get up a little higher, transmission will probably explode first lol
Get it done! That thing looks sick already. Cant wait for it to be reborn!
that yellow/black 745 is even faster now, running on pure ethanol and bigger(yes, bigger) turbo
NEED MOAR PICS/INFO! Stat!

volvoluvin
05-20-2008, 01:06 PM
Hey Doug,
This one was at the IPD meet on Saturday, it's not fully running yet, but looks to want to put down stupid power:
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/buggabean/2500423953/" title="IMG_3416 by buggabean, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2152/2500423953_1768aec9f1_o.jpg" width="1280" height="853" alt="IMG_3416" /></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/buggabean/2501253070/" title="IMG_3415 by buggabean, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3178/2501253070_3a0d24e782_o.jpg" width="1280" height="853" alt="IMG_3415" /></a>

Dug strickler
05-20-2008, 02:19 PM
DAHM!!!!! Lookin Sexay!

RockVegas
05-20-2008, 03:22 PM
Probably my car.

Oh, you said "fastest"... I though you said something else..... anything else.

Tenacious Todd
05-20-2008, 10:04 PM
Dug you are nuts going that fast with those brakes or did you do an upgrade yet?
I can certainly stop faster :oogle:
I don't have **** for HP or gas mileage either!!!! :rofl::rofl:

Karl Buchka
05-20-2008, 10:25 PM
Dug, the Swedes approve: http://forum.savarturbo.se/viewtopic.php?t=23803

ErikS
05-21-2008, 01:25 PM
Is it me? Doubt it... Show me some SIQ 5 doors!

Just saw this thread and I'm newish to TB.

Friend's Wagon in TX ..

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7682/volwagonmu9.jpg

currently getting Darton sleeves ...

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/5197/block1ys6.jpg

Be ready in a few months from what I hear. Hope he doesn't find out I posted this, he might get pissed!!!!

RvolvoR
05-21-2008, 01:50 PM
Be ready in a few months from what I hear. Hope he doesn't find out I posted this, he might get pissed!!!!

I wouldnt worry about it...hes already posted pics of the sleeves on VS

boosted
05-21-2008, 02:04 PM
I WANT TO SEE MOAR NOW! We need updated photos. And new pics of that red wagon STAT!!!

i met everton biggs in person. those pics were actually mine i believe from 2003'ish? he was running a 8v/twin t3 setup then. it was some ghetto, ****ty setup that only pulled off 12's that day. But i did see him two months later with a 16v and a HUGE turbo. The car is an EX-Deisel shell, all 'sawzalled' out. It had a chevy turbo 350 trans in it with an 8.8 rear end. the windows are plexiglass. The engine is controlled by haltech with two injectors per cylinder, and the car runs 9's

shellshock
05-21-2008, 03:29 PM
he took the easy way out? looks like a lot of work has gone in his car. I would like to see you just throw an ls1 and 2 turbos in anything and make it run or look like anything:rofl::rofl:

Yeah, but is it still considered a Volvo?

And yes, he did take the easy way out. I'd like to dee one person get a Volvo motor that fast with the money he spend the time devoted.

Sorry, I just get so tired of the **** kickers around here all "BOYY, If you put a good ole chev motor in that german piece of ****, it be waaay more fast! YEEHAWWW"!

Hell, why not just buy a corvette and turbo that?

volvo740t
05-21-2008, 04:33 PM
Right, and that's what I mean by "efficient" I'm not talking about about mpgs (feck mpgs)

I'm talking about you have "8" cylinders and "2" Turbos....

Well with a 16 valve (or anything volvo) you would spend more or equal time to build the same HP. With only "4" cylinders and "1" Turbo

Half, am i right?

The only thing that should be more is valves.

Like Gabe said, I too am tired of the whole V8 scene. Because that's just seems to be almost everyone's answer to more quick & easy power. Oh and I would hate to have to work on them.

Dug strickler
05-21-2008, 06:24 PM
Yeah, but is it still considered a Volvo?

And yes, he did take the easy way out.

Hell, why not just buy a corvette and turbo that?
You would lose that Sleeper effect that your car lacks.

Right, and that's what I mean by "efficient" I'm not talking about about mpgs (feck mpgs)

I'm talking about you have "8" cylinders and "2" Turbos....

Well with a 16 valve (or anything volvo) you would spend more or equal time to build the same HP. With only "4" cylinders and "1" Turbo

Half, am i right?

The only thing that should be more is valves.

Like Gabe said, I too am tired of the whole V8 scene. Because that's just seems to be almost everyone's answer to more quick & easy power. Oh and I would hate to have to work on them.
There's no replacment for displacement. I had about the same $ tied up into my B230ft set-up as my STOCK LONGBLOCK Turbo LS1. Needless to say, the LS1 makes more power, with less boost reliably. That is why I did the swap.

volvo740t
05-21-2008, 07:53 PM
I see your point.

I congratulate you on your achievement

But I'm sticking with what I know best the B230 :nod:

Dug strickler
05-21-2008, 08:04 PM
I see your point.

I congratulate you on your achievement

But I'm sticking with what I know best the B230 :nod:

Yea, I like the whole "Same Motor Brand as Car Type" too, and I miss that but... my car would not be as Special or different. So, I no longer roll that way... Except in my V70R! :cool:WooHoo!

Raymont
05-21-2008, 11:09 PM
theres a dent on your liftgate, by your left tailight

Dug strickler
05-22-2008, 01:11 AM
theres a dent on your liftgate, by your left tailight

My car is far from perfect.

V8BRICK
05-22-2008, 03:52 PM
Dug, it's called the V8 Volvo guilt. We both have it, that's why we compensate by owning at least one other 100% Volvo to feel more whole.

It's not necessarily a replacement for displacement in my eyes. It's the whole drive-ability and power combination that can only be achieved with a larger displacement engine. Simply put, a 600hp 4 cylinder is a pain in the ass to lump around town, while a 600hp turboed V8 is waaaay more fun to tool around. Doesn't mean I'm not going to try to slap a Volvo embossed gt42 compressor housing and wheel on the 16v 142 project engine!

Tuff240
05-22-2008, 09:00 PM
.

Dug strickler
05-23-2008, 12:32 AM
Dug, it's called the V8 Volvo guilt. We both have it, that's why we compensate by owning at least one other 100% Volvo to feel more whole.

It's not necessarily a replacement for displacement in my eyes. It's the whole drive-ability and power combination that can only be achieved with a larger displacement engine. Simply put, a 600hp 4 cylinder is a pain in the ass to lump around town, while a 600hp turboed V8 is waaaay more fun to tool around. Doesn't mean I'm not going to try to slap a Volvo embossed gt42 compressor housing and wheel on the 16v 142 project engine!

Well put. Check these!
<a href="http://s182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/?action=view&current=SM25thandprojectcar018.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/SM25thandprojectcar018.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a><a href="http://s182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/?action=view&current=SM25thandprojectcar016.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/SM25thandprojectcar016.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a><a href="http://s182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/?action=view&current=SM25thandprojectcar003.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/SM25thandprojectcar003.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a><a href="http://s182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/?action=view&current=SM25thandprojectcar004.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x42/dugstrickler/SM25thandprojectcar004.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

pooprah
05-23-2008, 01:01 AM
good god thats dug "siq"

bwb3
05-23-2008, 01:17 PM
:drool: that turbo manifold is beautiful :drool:

Captain Bondo
05-23-2008, 01:32 PM
Manifold looks crazy- quite the elaborate collector.

I am guessing that little "frame" in front of the header is a combination header brace and motor mount bracket?

Neat!

stylngle2003
05-23-2008, 01:37 PM
sweet jesus, that's a masterpiece

linuxman51
05-23-2008, 01:38 PM
thatsa verrah niiiceeeeee [/borat]

740ATL
05-23-2008, 01:42 PM
I wish my welds looked like that.

rwturbo
10-30-2008, 09:24 PM
Well it may not be a wagon but my brothers car will give you a good run. Especially on some twistii roads. You have him by 3.9 HP to the wheels. The car is what we call the black widow AKA one lap america car. A small block 289 ford block bored and stroked to 319 C.U. and 5 pounds of boost with intercooler. I know you for sure have even seen the car in person. It would be cool to put them together and do some running. His airflow sensor went bad and just dyno'd it last week and reset fuel and timing to 5 pounds 540.9 rwhp. They tried to get him to change the pulley and set it over 600 but its fast enough for the street now. Car looks good man. Just think it would be cool to get them together one day. Maybe next year we will make it back to carlise. We skipped out this year. Cheers man

500dollar744ti
10-30-2008, 09:25 PM
^^^ but that's NOT a wagon! :lol:

Dfer10
10-30-2008, 09:38 PM
might be some fwd or awd drive cars close.......

84 Blue 240
10-30-2008, 09:42 PM
Pretty header, but not a fan of the wastegate design at all. Sexy ass fabrication! I wish I could fabricate half that well.

GabAlmighty
10-30-2008, 09:43 PM
well, i'll tell ya this much. It's faster than my wagon, and i've got a fast wagon:-P

spruill242
10-30-2008, 11:27 PM
Well it may not be a wagon but my brothers car will give you a good run. Especially on some twistii roads. You have him by 3.9 HP to the wheels. The car is what we call the black widow AKA one lap america car. A small block 289 ford block bored and stroked to 319 C.U. and 5 pounds of boost with intercooler. I know you for sure have even seen the car in person. It would be cool to put them together and do some running. His airflow sensor went bad and just dyno'd it last week and reset fuel and timing to 5 pounds 540.9 rwhp. They tried to get him to change the pulley and set it over 600 but its fast enough for the street now. Car looks good man. Just think it would be cool to get them together one day. Maybe next year we will make it back to carlise. We skipped out this year. Cheers man

I still have to get him to take that thing out to VIR. And it's good to see you around again bud. I'll have to get back out that way sometime. If you don't mind PM me John's number, I can't seem to find it.

Bigbegum69
10-31-2008, 05:41 AM
i think i might have a shot at the fastest street legal volvo in the us... period

Mr.Borrie
10-31-2008, 06:01 AM
sweet jesus, that's a masterpiece

:omg: yes....

Karl Buchka
10-31-2008, 10:50 AM
So it's a 6 cylinder collector, but with a wastegate on one of the primaries? That makes no sense what so ever.

Homer
10-31-2008, 10:56 AM
So it's a 6 cylinder collector, but with a wastegate on one of the primaries? That makes no sense what so ever.

Agreed.

JW240
10-31-2008, 11:10 AM
Agreed.

indeed. beautifully made, but that wastegate arrangement seems sub-optimal.

Captain Bondo
10-31-2008, 12:20 PM
indeed. beautifully made, but that wastegate arrangement seems sub-optimal.


I have seen a car on a dyno with a wastegate pipe like that.

It had boost creep with NO wastegate installed, just an open hole.

It is very tempting to do that due to packaging, I made that mistake on my first t6 header. That's part of why I'm making a new one now.

Wastegate placement is important. I with I'd seen that car do a pull before I built my first header. :cry:

JW240
10-31-2008, 12:46 PM
I have seen a car on a dyno with a wastegate pipe like that.

It had boost creep with NO wastegate installed, just an open hole.

It is very tempting to do that due to packaging, I made that mistake on my first t6 header. That's part of why I'm making a new one now.

Wastegate placement is important. I with I'd seen that car do a pull before I built my first header. :cry:

yeah, wow, that is worse than what i would expect. Because i didn't know any problematic applications offhand i chose to describe as "sub-optimal", instead of something stronger. The gasses wont turn 180 degree and go out of the open pipe but rather go to the turbine. quite logical with bigger turbo's that have very low exhaust manifold pressures actually, takes hardly any pressure to turn the turbine.

Wastegate placement is indeed important. Im starting with internal, but with the cosworth T3 style so its healthy enough for fun.

Captain Bondo
10-31-2008, 12:50 PM
yeah, wow, that is worse than what i would expect. Because i didn't know any problematic applications offhand i chose to describe as "sub-optimal", instead of something stronger. The gasses wont turn 180 degree and go out of the open pipe but rather go to the turbine. quite logical with bigger turbo's that have very low exhaust manifold pressures actually.

Wastegate placement is indeed important. Im starting with internal, but with the cosworth T3 style so its healthy enough for fun.


Yes that's exactly it- with a small turbine housing you can actually get away with it to some degree, but with a big turbo (I notice there is a t4 hotside on the car in this thread) gas will take the path of least resistance, which is often straight down to the turbine.

Booster
10-31-2008, 12:53 PM
im going for the fastest lh 2.4 powered volvo.

84 Blue 240
10-31-2008, 03:10 PM
werd...as I said. I don't like the wastegate at all, but it is pretty. However, that's what I think of most turbo headers I see...poor design, but pretty looking.

Hodginsa
10-31-2008, 03:19 PM
So it's a 6 cylinder collector, but with a wastegate on one of the primaries? That makes no sense what so ever.

I think it makes sense, it would be the same as drilling a hole in the collector and welding a pipe on.

84 Blue 240
10-31-2008, 03:24 PM
I think it makes sense, it would be the same as drilling a hole in the collector and welding a pipe on.

Not really. The latter still isn't super great, but at least isn't asking the waste exhaust to flow against the incoming flow. With a properly sized turbo, the only good way to get proper wastegate flow is to place the wastegate at a point at which to introduce stagnation point pressure.

Captain Bondo
10-31-2008, 04:17 PM
84 Blue,

I'd be interested to hear what makes a "good" header design, in your opinion. :cheers:

One of the problems I see with other cars of late is that it has become really cool to dump the wastegate to atmosphere, but in many cases what you actually want to do is have the exhaust flow leaving the turbo actually suck exhaust through the wastegate circuit.

To use other words, you can literally siphon exhaust through the wastegate circuit, provided that the connection to the downpipe is at a low andgle and the wastegate pipe is also at a low angle relative to the merge collector. IMO this is the smartest way to do it.

84 Blue 240
10-31-2008, 04:36 PM
84 Blue,

I'd be interested to hear what makes a "good" header design, in your opinion. :cheers:

One of the problems I see with other cars of late is that it has become really cool to dump the wastegate to atmosphere, but in many cases what you actually want to do is have the exhaust flow leaving the turbo actually suck exhaust through the wastegate circuit.

To use other words, you can literally siphon exhaust through the wastegate circuit, provided that the connection to the downpipe is at a low andgle and the wastegate pipe is also at a low angle relative to the merge collector. IMO this is the smartest way to do it.

I agree 100% with your opinion on wastegate re-entry. Assuming the pipe is large enough to not take a flow penalty with extra gas and the pipe enters at a shallow angle (or concentrically:)). However, I much prefer a dump over what I see on most systems, being the perpendicular re-entry. That, just basically creates a wall of gas.

The problems I see in so many turbo headers are ties to NA header design. Long primaries and equal length being the primary concerns. Considering that backpressure has a very detrimental impact on scavenging, it baffles me why one would try to tune the header. Short, direct primaries that allow the maximum pulse strength and high velocity are optimum. At some point, velocity reaches the choke point, increasing backpressure. Only then should primary size be increased. With short primaries, you don't pay a big penalty in shear losses due to the high Reynolds number.
Back to the equal length/long primary issue. I see so many turbo headers that have the pipe snaking all over the place in order to have that magical equal length with a medium primary. The truth is, IMHO, that the increase in bends/length is far more of a detriment (and probably fubar's the timing of the arrival at the collector the builder worked so hard to get right with equal length) than any slight benefit from equal length and a long primary. The longer the primary, the hotter my engine compartment and the less energy that reaches the turbo. In addition, most arguments of equal length also tie into having less backpressure because of the pulses not trying to come out at the same time. I am a big proponet of pulse matched, short primaries with split housings. With the short primaries, you eliminate the chances of two pulses hitting each other, maximize energy, minimize heat (energy) loss, and most importantly maintain a very even exhaust flow with no forced EGR due to reversion.

I, personally, am a huge proponent of a proper, cast iron, or thick wall stainless manifold, rather than header. The design changes a bit with the ones I designed (currently being used to good effect, I might add). Rather than small primaries, I go as big as possible and basically make a diffuser (Expanding nozzle) that turns the high velocity into high pressure. The entry paths are aimed for minimal reversion and maximum flow. The advantages are that the shorter path and overall volume, I think, decreases spool times, and still flows well up top due to the large cross section and low pressure seen at the port. Lastly, and most importantly to me, I believe manifolds like this will long outlast most stainless headers using conventional thickness. Stainless likes to crack and it likes to expand. Even the best welds tend to fail after a while. One can use mild steel and coat it, but we all know the problems there. Recently, there have been some nice, CNC mandrel bent and hydroformed, 1 piece (except for flanges) headers coming out. I think those might hold up better.

pooprah
10-31-2008, 05:06 PM
84 and bondo what do you think about people saying afr readings get thrown off when you have an external dump pipe?

RvolvoR
10-31-2008, 05:14 PM
84 and bondo what do you think about people saying afr readings get thrown off when you have an external dump pipe?

thats a bull**** statement...all of the exhaust is the same, the oxygen sensor is just taking a sample of it...

pooprah
10-31-2008, 05:18 PM
thats a bull**** statement...all of the exhaust is the same, the oxygen sensor is just taking a sample of it...

coming with the FIRE! :lol: thanks

84 Blue 240
10-31-2008, 05:20 PM
thats a bull**** statement...all of the exhaust is the same, the oxygen sensor is just taking a sample of it...

Pretty much. Unless you have a dump that is so short, and a turbo so large (ie low backpressure) that air could come back into the car (being forced in from the car's velocity), I have a hard time believing that.

RvolvoR
10-31-2008, 05:28 PM
Pretty much. Unless you have a dump that is so short, and a turbo so large (ie low backpressure) that air could come back into the car (being forced in from the car's velocity), I have a hard time believing that.

or a pre turbo exhaust leak

Captain Bondo
10-31-2008, 05:34 PM
I agree 100% with your opinion on wastegate re-entry. Assuming the pipe is large enough to not take a flow penalty with extra gas and the pipe enters at a shallow angle (or concentrically:)). However, I much prefer a dump over what I see on most systems, being the perpendicular re-entry. That, just basically creates a wall of gas.



Agreed.
Dump is likely better than the poor re-entry often seen.

Can't say I don't agree with your sentiments. Thanks, discussion like this is rare these days aorund these parts so I really appreciate you taking the time to post!

The one thing I would say though, is that it is easy to describe an ideal, but many goals have conflicting requirements, especially when packaging of the overall system is concerned.

At the end of the day it is packaging that is King, and all of the values you describe are its subjects.

I agree that if a casting can be made with a good collector and low volume without requiring a lot of really tight radius bends to do it, and put the turbo in a reasonable location, that would be nice. Not sure this is entirely feasible in some cases though (a 240 being one of them).


I agree that minimizing volume is a good idea, and that was a value I considered with the bottom mount headers. However, the collector format and arranging the runners so that a pulse paired flange and a smooth merge could be used was more important to me. As was mounting the turbo in a location I thought made sense from a weight distribution, downpipe layout, and oil return point of view.


So, IMO the runners are maybe longer than they maybe NEED to be, but this is an excerise in finding a good compromise.

I sacrificed low volume to some degree for the sake of having a good collector format (which to me is probably the most important thing).

I'm sure they exist, but I haven't seen a cast manifold with a collector that could compete with a well-built fabricated one, in terms is isolating pulses and having a geometry that mimics the turbine housing.

As I'm sure you know, large primaries will not compensate for a poor merge collector when it comes to flow (just look at the log manifolds whith huge pipe diameters that do not come close to producing the numbers tube headers with good collectors do).

I also agree equal length is overrated, but keeping them close is a good idea from a durability point of view as the hsortest one will expand and contract less than the others and be prone to failure.

The CNC bent/Hydroformed method interests me- I think it's the way to go. I'd still build the collector, but it could really save a lot of time and money for me, as well as improve durability long term. I have no connections though and no idea what the costs are like or what the volumes need to be....:-(

84 Blue 240
10-31-2008, 05:46 PM
Agreed.
Dump is likely better than the poor re-entry often seen.

Can't say I don't agree with your sentiments. Thanks, discussion like this is rare these days aorund these parts so I really appreciate you taking the time to post!

The one thing I would say though, is that it is easy to describe an ideal, but many goals have conflicting requirements, especially when packaging of the overall system is concerned.

At the end of the day it is packaging that is King, and all of the values you describe are its subjects.

I agree that if a casting can be made with a good collector and low volume without requiring a lot of really tight radius bends to do it, and put the turbo in a reasonable location, that would be nice. Not sure this is entirely feasible in some cases though (a 240 being one of them).


I agree that minimizing volume is a good idea, and that was a value I considered with the bottom mount headers. However, the collector format and arranging the runners so that a pulse paired flange and a smooth merge could be used was more important to me. As was mounting the turbo in a location I thought made sense from a weight distribution, downpipe layout, and oil return point of view.


So, IMO the runners are maybe longer than they maybe NEED to be, but this is an excerise in finding a good compromise.

I sacrificed low volume to some degree for the sake of having a good collector format (which to me is probably the most important thing).

I'm sure they exist, but I haven't seen a cast manifold with a collector that could compete with a well-built fabricated one, in terms is isolating pulses and having a geometry that mimics the turbine housing.

As I'm sure you know, large primaries will not compensate for a poor merge collector when it comes to flow (just look at the log manifolds whith huge pipe diameters that do not come close to producing the numbers tube headers with good collectors do).

I also agree equal length is overrated, but keeping them close is a good idea from a durability point of view as the hsortest one will expand and contract less than the others and be prone to failure.

The CNC bent/Hydroformed method interests me- I think it's the way to go. I'd still build the collector, but it could really save a lot of time and money for me, as well as improve durability long term. I have no connections though and no idea what the costs are like or what the volumes need to be....:-(

I completely agree that real world headers have compromises. I can also say I agree with most of the ones you made...I really wouldn't do mine much differently. I might differ from you in that I don't put as much emphasis on a collector as many do, but I certainly can appreciate that many people think it the center of a proper design. I appreciate the open, non-confrontational discussion we are having much more than the smack style I find myself in more often.

I also agree that poor logs are fuggin terrible designs. We really try to keep the word log out of our vocabulary when talking about the system with customers. If we do use it, we refer to it as an expanding log/header hybrid. I was very proud of the design process we took to arrive at our final design. We (I) designed 4 different headers based on the inputs of about 5 people. From there we were able to discuss improvement of those designs, compromises made by each, fab time, materials cost, and longevity. Once we picked two designs, I perfected those designs some more, taking into account the improvements suggested. Finally, a second round of discussions led to the choice of one design. From there, it was optimized in CAD and CFD for ease of manufacture and performance. I can't tell you how incredibly interesting and challenging trying to make the ideal compromises is. That's why I love my job(s) as an engineer.

Boris740
10-31-2008, 07:32 PM
84 Blue,

I'd be interested to hear what makes a "good" header design, in your opinion. :cheers:

One of the problems I see with other cars of late is that it has become really cool to dump the wastegate to atmosphere, but in many cases what you actually want to do is have the exhaust flow leaving the turbo actually suck exhaust through the wastegate circuit.

To use other words, you can literally siphon exhaust through the wastegate circuit, provided that the connection to the downpipe is at a low andgle and the wastegate pipe is also at a low angle relative to the merge collector. IMO this is the smartest way to do it.

Something like this?
http://www.viatrack.ca/TURBOMAN/WG_DP1.JPG
http://www.viatrack.ca/TURBOMAN/WG_DP2.JPG

Sorry about the monster size pix

Captain Bondo
10-31-2008, 07:50 PM
Yeah, I always thought your setup turned out pretty good. I might have eliminated the small bend on the outlet side of the flex section and just kept it straight, and angled the whole thing towards the downpipe slightly so it shot straight in, but who knows if that even clears. It's easy to nitpick without a good picture of the confines of the engine bay.

I think it's nice- how is boost control, anyways?

PS
Assuming that it is stainless, you could get by with about 1/2 as much filler on the 16ga pipe as you are using though. ;-)

Boris740
10-31-2008, 08:00 PM
I am using MBC set to 20 psi currently. DP and the manifold is now over two years old. I just removed everything inspected it for cracks. Nothing came apart. That was my first welding project so I will take your tip about excess filler.
Recently I transplanted it a new block. My first engine build. It goes like stink. Will dyno it eventually.

Captain Bondo
10-31-2008, 08:14 PM
Badass.