Understeer=TEH FAIL! (carnage warning)

[crandandall]

Went on a drive yesterday with a few other cars, my brother in his e30, TURBO_Volvo_Dan in his +t 244, and a couple audi A4's. All in all, the drive went well. We went from Auburn to Cool via Hwy. 49, then from Cool to El Dorado Hills by way of Salmon Falls Rd. We got to El Dorado Hills at around 1:00, so we decided to head up Hwy 50 to Placerville and take Hwy 193 from Placerville to Cool in order to get back to Hwy 49. We finally got to Hwy 193 around 2:00 and started the 30 mile trek back to Cool. We ended up getting stuck behind someone in a pickup for a couple miles until they pulled of on a wide hairpin curve. Once we got going again, we went throug a couple really tight turns and s**t hit the fan. I was in the front leading everyone with my brother in his BMW behind me, his friend in an '03 A4 behind him, Dan in his 244 next with the other A4 bringing up the tail. We went around a turn that gets really tight on the exit around the mountain side, I was going maybe 25 miles per hour from what my brother said. I heard some tire screeching after I had exited the turn just in time to see Dan sliding into the oncoming lane which just happened to have a Jeep Cherokee in it.:-( I'll let the pics do the rest of the talking.

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/9181/dscn0213le0.jpg
http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/2822/dscn0218gs9.jpg
http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/3916/dscn0217wy2.jpg
http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7783/dscn0219an6.jpg
http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/5248/dscn0216oo1.jpg
http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/9425/dscn0215um7.jpg

What happens to a 240 when it's in a head on with a Cherokee?

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/804/dscn0221iz6.jpg

What happens to the Cherokee?

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/8089/dscn0220vo9.jpg

The guy in the A4 ended up in the back of Dan as you can tell by the pics, and ended up bouncing over to the driver side of Dan's car. I'm pretty sure all three cars are totaled. Good news is that nobody was hurt too bad, bruises and bumps, with the obligatory bruised ego. Just another brick doin it's job.

[crandandall]

For reference, this is what Dan's car looked like before the accident on another drive we went on.
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/474/hpim1480ew3.jpg
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/9078/hpim1475wn0.jpg
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/9352/hpim1463wz9.jpg

Yes, the left rear quarter was pretty much entirely bondo.:-P

[Sp3aK]

Guess I'm first in here to just echo the obvious that the whole situation sucks. +1 for no one being hurt, hope everything works out for all involved.

[blkaplan]

that left rear quarter panel was trying to escape

that is some serious pwnage

[crandandall]

Hopefully everything works out, I'm gonna talk to Dan today to see about getting rid of the car once he pulls all of the stuff he wants off of it, I'm sure he'll keep everyone updated anyway. Everyone had insurance, so it shouldn't be an issue, but you know how things go sometimes. It's actually kind of fortunate that the Jeep was there, because the cliff is a sheer drop for about 75 to 100 feet down to the road, plus my youngest brother was in the passenger seat. Could've been a lot worse for sure.

[canadianflathood]

Good to hear everyone was okay.

[fige]

wow. Good to hear everyone is okay.

How do you understeer at 25mph?

[SquareD]

That will definitely not buff out. Glad to hear everyone's ok.

[tryingbe]

Driver that drives too fast for the road condition, fail. (240)
Driver follow too close, fail. (Audi)


Hopefully, there is something to be learn from this.


I hope they clean up the road well, or else the oil and coolant is going to make somebody else crash at the same site.

[500dollar744ti]

i have an odd feeling that the Jeep was not at fault. it seems to me that in order to understeer into the opposing lane some reckless driving has to be involved.

glad to hear everyone is okay but really, have any lessons been learned?

[crandandall]

I'm pretty sure he was going faster than 25. I was doing 25, but I had gotten a bit of a jump on everyone coming out of the hairpin once the truck pulled over. By the time we got to the turn, my brother and his friend behind him had caught up but Dan and the other Audi guy were still on the gas. Guess next time we'll keep someone that's familiar with the road near the back too.

Here's a link to a map of the part of the road we were on, the accident happened on the turn in the upper left corner.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Placerville&state=CA#a/maps/l:::Placerville:CA::US:38.729698:-120.797501:city:El+Dorado+County/m:sat:15:38.772807:-120.816594:0::/io:0:::::f:EN:M:/e

[crandandall]

Yup, lessons learned for sure, and no, the Jeep was not at fault. Everyone knows who's at fault and Dan's not denying fault at all. We're just all glad that it wasn't any worse.

[500dollar744ti]

We ended up getting stuck behind someone in a pickup for a couple miles until they pulled of on a wide hairpin curve. Once we got going again, we went throug a couple really tight turns and s**t hit the fan.

stuck behind a pickup because the driver was obeying the law? i think trying to push a group of cars hard on a twisty mountain road that endangers drivers in the other lane minding their business is a terribly bad idea.

what would have happened if the jeep was pushed off the road and rolled over repeatedly down that hill and someone was killed?

not pushing the fault cause, just exploring ideas to show how lucky you all really are.

[gsellstr]

Given the roads, there's a LOT of people who won't do the speed limit or even close. I've driven that route and the posted speed limits are VERY conservative (for a reason). It's not uncommon for people to do 10-20 under posted, and for someone with a car that can handle, it's nice to be able to do the posted or 5-10 over.

That being said, this sucks. Glad to hear everyone's okay, the cars did their jobs, and it's only bumps and bruises.

edit: Hey Crandall....get my message on Saturday?

[crandandall]

Given the roads, there's a LOT of people who won't do the speed limit or even close. I've driven that route and the posted speed limits are VERY conservative (for a reason). It's not uncommon for people to do 10-20 under posted, and for someone with a car that can handle, it's nice to be able to do the posted or 5-10 over.

That being said, this sucks. Glad to hear everyone's okay, the cars did their jobs, and it's only bumps and bruises.

edit: Hey Crandall....get my message on Saturday?

Totally agree, can't really go much faster than 5-10mph over what's posted on chili bar anyway, LOL. It's a chance most of us take on a regular basis. It was an accident, nobody ever wants accidents to happen, but they do, that's why we have insurance.

I did get that message from you, Gary. I have a G80 already, remember the one from Gian's car? Still sitting on the garage floor ready to be put in the wagon.:oops:

[F1reBird]

wow..thats a scury turn.. i can see how bad it would be for someone who doesn't know the road, specially if they have stock volvo rims ( 195) tires 0_0

glad everyone is okay tho.. you live you learn :e-shrug:

and i guess the jeep won the boxy contest :-P

[pwschuh]

I'm pretty sure all three cars are totaled.

Audi doesn't look totaled from here.

Glad everyone is OK.

[2manyturbos]

Dan likes to drive fast, push it as much as possible. I'm glad everyone is OK. I keep telling him, do it on an autocross course, road race course etc. The street is no place for this kind of fooling around, unless, it is closed off, such as the "Silver State Classic" etc.

[mAydAy]

Audi doesn't look totaled from here.

Glad everyone is OK.

Being its an older A4, and the airbags are popped, I'd be willing to put money on it being totalled. Airbags alone would cost about the same as what you could replace the car for.

[CountOfNowhere]

A prime example of why I refuse to go on any group drives on public roads.

Sucks, tho. Definitely sucks. I will look at the carnage when I go home, I can't get to the pictures at work.

[pwschuh]

Being its an older A4, and the airbags are popped, I'd be willing to put money on it being totalled. Airbags alone would cost about the same as what you could replace the car for.

I can tell it's not one of the latest gaping grill models but other than that I can't age Audi's very well.

[240_Richmond]

I'd be pissed if I were driving the Jeep.

[Crazychopstick]

That stinks.

Good looking car too.

[Mueller]

bummer, hope Dan has damn good insurance, surprised he was not issued a ticket by police

[fige]

were those E-codes?

[RvolvoR]

not ecode....audi probably wont be totalled, girl i know has a 98 that got hit head on earlier this year....airbags and all....didnt get totalled...

[CFL940]

ahhh fuking lame dude... that was a nice 244. Glad everyone is ok.

[pooprah]

damn makes me glad i have only crashed into random things not cars. im sure you guys were scooting pritty good and having fun, i know i like to drive hard. sad to see, time for a 242?

[pooprah]

oh and this is kinda scary looking cuz it looks like this http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=147708

[F1reBird]

I'd be pissed if I were driving the Jeep.

meee toooo

did dan get a ticket?

he could've said he slipped on the gravel :lol:

but that only works for motorcycles.. and if you slip on gravel in that situation..you're dead

[tryingbe]

Gravel is placed there after to suck up all the oil and coolant...

[F1reBird]

^ well.. there goes that alibi

[Tom Wiley]

damn makes me glad i have only crashed into random things not cars. im sure you guys were scooting pritty good and having fun, i know i like to drive hard. sad to see, time for a 242?

Dan has a 78' 244 so he MIGHT (speculation) drive that.

[Morley]

Not to be an ass, but that looks more like panic-braking to me than understeer.

Oh and driving to fast - for the conditions.

[Mr.Borrie]

well guess where i am not gonna post pics/story when i streetrace and crash my car :-P

[Mueller]

well guess where i am not gonna post pics/story when i streetrace and crash my car :-P

that is what your friends are for :)

[BoostedSwede]

Well, however that accident happened, at least everybody's ok. It clearly could have been A LOT worse. Hopefully you can get another Volvo up and running soon!:volvo:

[Bready]

well guess where i am not gonna post pics/story when i streetrace and crash my car :-P

If you wind up killing someone in the process the press will take care of it for you.


Amazing how easy it is to get overconfident in a car - when the **** hits the fan it can get ugly and tragic in the blink of an eye.

KTP

[Mr.Borrie]

If you wind up killing someone in the process the press will take care of it for you.


Amazing how easy it is to get overconfident in a car - when the **** hits the fan it can get ugly and tragic in the blink of an eye.

KTP

That sir i agree on.. its a twisted feeling of "come on racing is awesome", and "but is dangerous" and yes you can kill people with it and that sucks donkey balls so yeah never encourage people with something like that .. but is kinda awesome... aahh damit

[Lucky the Smiling Pirate]

That sir i agree on.. its a twisted feeling of "come on racing is awesome", and "but is dangerous" and yes you can kill people with it and that sucks donkey balls so yeah never encourage people with something like that .. but is kinda awesome... aahh damit

haha, like that time on the track?;-)

[Mr.Borrie]

haha, like that time on the track?;-)

Yeah well what do you want, "ehm there is no way the smart should be faster but hey' dont kill us" could have taking him but i was nice and let us live :rofl:

[volvorod85]

Good that everyone is ok. I was driving up a mountain road and my buddy behind me had a camera in his car rolling when you see me go into the turn, smoke and then see me straightening out on the wrong side of the road pulling back into the correct lane. Same scenario, same type of road, but i was only doin 15mph, posted suggested speed was 10mph, and there was gravel on the road....back end slid out and snapped the guard rail. expceted to get out and see the rear quarter gone....but it just tapped the bumper. In the video you hear "oh ****!" and then......he didnt hit the rail, he didnt hit the guard rail, then yelling my name, shouting yeah horn honking...meanwhile my pants needed changing. I take it pretty easy driving up there now

Mark

[crandandall]

Not to be an ass, but that looks more like panic-braking to me than understeer.

Oh and driving to fast - for the conditions.

I'm sure it was a bit of everything, all I know is that I looked in my mirror just in time to see dan's wheels turned right as he slid straight into the opposite lane, couldn't really tell if the brakes were locked up or not (they probably were).

I think I heard Dan's dad on the phone today trying to buy a '92 244, so I'm sure he'll have a new brick pretty soon. Probably won't be turbo'd any time soon though.

[lunar240z]

That sucks. That was a nice looking brick, nice stance. What size tires are those?

[JustFord0099]

wow that really sucks, glad to see everyone is ok


lawl at the UTI shirt though :lol:

[crandandall]

lawl at the UTI shirt though :lol:


That's my brother in the UTI shirt, he goes to UTI with Dan and the two guys driving the Audi's. Went to help Dan strip anything of value off the car today before it gets scrapped. Came home with a set of HD's and IPD springs for the 242. Dan's volvo will live on by means of another Dan's volvo, LOL.

[pooprah]

ah the 242 forgot you had that. make it go

[EUROmotion]

not ecode....audi probably wont be totalled, girl i know has a 98 that got hit head on earlier this year....airbags and all....didnt get totalled...

thats why buying used car sometimes worries me... not that i would ever buy a new car

[ashvolvo]

Nasty stuff.
It's good to hear everyone is ok though.

This is really one of the reasons that I dont get out on group drive days very often, there's more often than not someone who ends up with a scrape or a situation like this. It's no fun for anyone.

Trawl through the previous posts on here or any similar forum and you'll see pictures of similar carnage.

More often than not, these sorts of incidents are simply a result of a driver getting their ambitions confused with their abilities.

[norcal505]

holy s@$# that sucks.
glad he's ok

[84 Blue 240]

I think I heard Dan's dad on the phone today trying to buy a '92 244, so I'm sure he'll have a new brick pretty soon. Probably won't be turbo'd any time soon though.


Please tell me that Dan's dad isn't gonna just buy him another car after this.

[adrianpike]

Please tell me that Dan's dad isn't gonna just buy him another car after this.

Maybe he'll buy him a broken Jeep.

[SiGmA_X]

Driver that drives too fast for the road condition, fail. (240)
Driver follow too close, fail. (Audi)


Hopefully, there is something to be learn from this.


I hope they clean up the road well, or else the oil and coolant is going to make somebody else crash at the same site.My thoughts entirely.

FFS. We only have women do this on drives. (Need to find that DTM link lol)

[triton]

people on other forums and 4chan are making fun of this somewhat.

[badvlvo]

Inexperienced driver, difficult road, bad accident. Glad to see nobody was hurt.

I have done that drive quite a few times and it's easy for a few of the turns to sneak up on you if you are pushing it. That's why I don't do drives like that on roads that have oncomong traffic.

[TURBO_Volvo_Dan!!]

WOW! this thread has grown fast! anyways... so yeah... i feel like quite the douche... I'm just really glad that everyone is ok. I'm perfectly fine, and i talked to the jeep people today, and so are they. They were saying how they have friends and family who have crashed on that same corner... i wasn't even driving as hard as i usually do, going into the corner was fine, and then the exit gets crazy sharp, and yeah...understeer... most of my close calls are all oversteer which i can control, but not understeer... i didn't even hit the brakes, it happened pretty fast, and before i knew it BAM jeep, and then mr audi did the same and BAM from behind. it was a learning experience for sure...i need to know the roads i'm on before i start getting cocky, i wish there were auto X's around here to prevent things like this from happening. but i learned big time yesterday. my insurance will cover for the jeep etc, and then my inurance company is prob gonna argue with the audi's insurance company since he hit me and made it even worse...for the people asking, my tires are 205/45/16's on OEM upgrade hydras.
I am in a bit of trouble with my pop's, so i won't be driving for a little while. and once i do, i'll be in the good ol' 78.
so anyways, whats done is done!

[Lord_Athlon]

Ive been in a situation like this once, minus the accident. Im thankful for my wide assed tires and stiff suspension.

[crandandall]

ah the 242 forgot you had that. make it go

Working on it, had that thing for 5 years and the closest I've been to driving it was when we towed it home with a chain. LOL. Just been collecting stuff for it over the years and tkinkering with it when I can find some time. Not in a big hurry to get it running, once 7 years comes around, I won't have to pay any of the back dues to DMV. Maybe I can find a late 142 or '75 242 to use the VIN of by the time it's running.:oogle:

[John V, outside agitator]

I'm pretty sure he was going faster than 25. I was doing 25, but I had gotten a bit of a jump on everyone coming out of the hairpin once the truck pulled over. By the time we got to the turn, my brother and his friend behind him had caught up but Dan and the other Audi guy were still on the gas. Guess next time we'll keep someone that's familiar with the road near the back too.

Here's a link to a map of the part of the road we were on, the accident happened on the turn in the upper left corner.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Placerville&state=CA#a/maps/l:::Placerville:CA::US:38.729698:-120.797501:city:El+Dorado+County/m:sat:15:38.772807:-120.816594:0::/io:0:::::f:EN:M:/e

Maybe next time you guys head over to a track or some dirt road where other people don't have their cars and their whole days ruined just because you guys can't show minimal respect for others on the road.

Now I think jeeps and SUVs are junk but for all anybody knows, the guy driving it may have liked his car, and maybe he had something more important to do than have his car destroyed by you guys who were obviously rat-racing.

Did anybody get issued a citation?
Equipment violation for the dead-looking tires?

Shame to loose a 240, but somebody need some time to ponder their actions, maybe while guest of the County.

[Vee_Que]

I've had good luck with the one drive day I've done, luckily we were heavily spaced out and the roads had a high speed limit, understeer is easily countered with throttle though I found, no matter what speed.

Still sucks, car looked good.

[swunder]

idiots

glad to here everyone is ok

[240T man]

idiots

glad to hear everyone is ok

Irony? :-P

[pooprah]

:clap:

[TURBO_Volvo_Dan!!]

Maybe next time you guys head over to a track or some dirt road where other people don't have their cars and their whole days ruined just because you guys can't show minimal respect for others on the road.

Now I think jeeps and SUVs are junk but for all anybody knows, the guy driving it may have liked his car, and maybe he had something more important to do than have his car destroyed by you guys who were obviously rat-racing.

Did anybody get issued a citation?
Equipment violation for the dead-looking tires?

Shame to loose a 240, but somebody need some time to ponder their actions, maybe while guest of the County.

well, our goal wasn't to screw up someones day, and it was a lesson learned, and my tires aren't close to bald, the picture i guess just looks like that to you.

[ashvolvo]

I've had good luck with the one drive day I've done, luckily we were heavily spaced out and the roads had a high speed limit, understeer is easily countered with throttle though I found, no matter what speed.

Still sucks, car looked good.

Alex,
I dont think luck plays any part in it.
Drive within your limits, pay attention and always think of what could happen.

As seen above, the actions of other people in the group I could potentially be involved with mean that I generally wont particpate in them.

[GrandmaSideways]

I'm pretty sure he was going faster than 25. I was doing 25, but I had gotten a bit of a jump on everyone coming out of the hairpin once the truck pulled over. By the time we got to the turn, my brother and his friend behind him had caught up but Dan and the other Audi guy were still on the gas. Guess next time we'll keep someone that's familiar with the road near the back too.

Here's a link to a map of the part of the road we were on, the accident happened on the turn in the upper left corner.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Placerville&state=CA#a/maps/l:::Placerville:CA::US:38.729698:-120.797501:city:El+Dorado+County/m:sat:15:38.772807:-120.816594:0::/io:0:::::f:EN:M:/e

Ahhh placer county!
Nice area!

well, our goal wasn't to screw up someones day, and it was a lesson learned, and my tires aren't close to bald, the picture i guess just looks like that to you.

The front left looks pretty worn, almost looks like you should be on the wear bars (zoom in)

[swunder]

damn grammer police

see what I did there??

[Tom Wiley]

Ahhh placer county!

The front left looks pretty worn, almost looks like you should be on the wear bars (zoom in)

Something tells me that Dan (who can see his tires in ultrahigh resolution) would know his tread depth better than you.

[TURBO_Volvo_Dan!!]

Something tells me that Dan (who can see his tires in ultrahigh resolution) would know his tread depth better than you.

haha, like ultrahigh resolution as in my face 5 inches away looking at the tires... yeah, i have at least 10k left on the tires... but thanks!

[GrandmaSideways]

Yeah but he also claims he powdercoated the braces he made, and that wasn't the case.

[TURBO_Volvo_Dan!!]

well if you call spraying powder onto them and then baking them in a fatty oven not powder coating, then i dont know what powder coating is. but thanks again! stop criticizing everything... this thread doesn't need little bitchy comments...

[GrandmaSideways]

It wasn't, it was a quick rattlecan job.

[Morley]

Powder coating is normally a coat applied using no solvents, and typically electrostatic effects are used to bond the uncured paint to the item being painted. Then it is cured, or melted might be a better word, in an oven.

Rattle can paints cured in an oven is not powder-coated. Period.

[GrandmaSideways]

Well the bar began rusting and the paint began flaking that winter - I had only gotten it in July - and the car was not even going anywhere, it was stored. When it arrived I was a bit disappointed by the build quality. There was something metal you could hear inside the bar when you moved it, and the welds for the most part were not properly coated. They had some white puddy-like material to seal them - hell, could've been white-out! I asked him what the deal was, and said I wasn't happy with the finish, and he went off on how much it cost to make them, the cost of shipping, blah blah blah 'Basically you got a powdercoating done for $20' - etc...
But anyways, now we're off topic.

[Vee_Que]

Alex,
I dont think luck plays any part in it.
Drive within your limits, pay attention and always think of what could happen.

As seen above, the actions of other people in the group I could potentially be involved with mean that I generally wont particpate in them.

Yeah we kept our distances and drove at our own paces, I had the windows open and stereo off to listen for tyre squeeling and there wasn't any!

[Volvo244GLE]

yep keeping reasonable spacing and taking it at your own pace are definately the key, especially on unfamiliar roads. definately lessons to be learnt here, could have been alot worse though.

[BDKR]

More often than not, these sorts of incidents are simply a result of a driver getting their ambitions confused with their abilities.

+1

WOW! this thread has grown fast! anyways... so yeah... i feel like quite the douche... I'm just really glad that everyone is ok. I'm perfectly fine, and i talked to the jeep people today, and so are they. They were saying how they have friends and family who have crashed on that same corner... i wasn't even driving as hard as i usually do, going into the corner was fine, and then the exit gets crazy sharp, and yeah...understeer... most of my close calls are all oversteer which i can control, but not understeer... i didn't even hit the brakes, it happened pretty fast, and before i knew it BAM jeep, and then mr audi did the same and BAM from behind. it was a learning experience for sure...i need to know the roads i'm on before i start getting cocky, i wish there were auto X's around here to prevent things like this from happening. but i learned big time yesterday. my insurance will cover for the jeep etc, and then my inurance company is prob gonna argue with the audi's insurance company since he hit me and made it even worse...for the people asking, my tires are 205/45/16's on OEM upgrade hydras.
I am in a bit of trouble with my pop's, so i won't be driving for a little while. and once i do, i'll be in the good ol' 78.
so anyways, whats done is done!

Dan, I'm more then enthused that you are OK. Holy Crap does it suck when you look at your wrecked hulk and the stuff you messed up that belongs to somebody else. But you'll be fine and as you've stated, you'll learn.

Or at least you should continue to learn! I would think long and hard about what caused it. Was it simply understeer? Was it simply not being familiar with the road? Was it simply skill or the lack thereof?

The cool thing about being into bikes was the people I rode with and the constant attention paid to riding technique, which of course involved a lot more then just where to use the brakes. The ability to accurately judge a corner and chose safe lines is just as important as knowing how to apply the brakes.

Ultimately, this really looks that that decreasing radius corner caught you guys out. :-(

[Tom Wiley]

Yeah but he also claims he powdercoated the braces he made, and that wasn't the case.

Lose your ego. You don't know everything. If the powder coating was ****ty then that is what it was. PM Dan that and have a conversation about it. Don't bitch about something you aren't will to change.

[TURBO_Volvo_Dan!!]

+1



Dan, I'm more then enthused that you are OK. Holy Crap does it suck when you look at your wrecked hulk and the stuff you messed up that belongs to somebody else. But you'll be fine and as you've stated, you'll learn.

Or at least you should continue to learn! I would think long and hard about what caused it. Was it simply understeer? Was it simply not being familiar with the road? Was it simply skill or the lack thereof?

The cool thing about being into bikes was the people I rode with and the constant attention paid to riding technique, which of course involved a lot more then just where to use the brakes. The ability to accurately judge a corner and chose safe lines is just as important as knowing how to apply the brakes.

Ultimately, this really looks that that decreasing radius corner caught you guys out. :-(

yeah... it was understeer due to the decreasing radius, and i had never driven the rode before, and going into the corner you would think it's a fine speed, but at the exit, that's when you relize OOHHH SHIZ this is not a corner you would want to accelerate out of, more like the further you get into the corner, the more you need to brake. but i guess i did the same like lots of other people on the same corner. there are also no speed or warning signs about the corner so that didn't help either...

[blkaplan]

L8 apex

[TURBO_Volvo_Dan!!]

Well the bar began rusting and the paint began flaking that winter - I had only gotten it in July - and the car was not even going anywhere, it was stored. When it arrived I was a bit disappointed by the build quality. There was something metal you could hear inside the bar when you moved it, and the welds for the most part were not properly coated. They had some white puddy-like material to seal them - hell, could've been white-out! I asked him what the deal was, and said I wasn't happy with the finish, and he went off on how much it cost to make them, the cost of shipping, blah blah blah 'Basically you got a powdercoating done for $20' - etc...
But anyways, now we're off topic.

well again it WAS powdercoated, and if i remember yours was one of the 2 white ones i made. i should have listened to my boss when he said powdercoating white is a bitchh. and for a peice of metal in the brace... it was prob a piece of slag tinkling around in there. I'm sorry you weren't happy with the finish, but like i said, i wasn't even gonna powder coat them at all and sell them for $150, but where i worked we had a powdercoater so i was doing it to try to be extra nice. so if you're not happy still then F*CKING SELL IT! i keep on getting people PMing me every so often wanting me to make them a brace still, even had an offer for my brace off my crashed car. Go buy an IPD brace and realize how your car handles like poop again, but at least the most important part to you (the paint) will be nice since they make hundreds. have fun.

[TURBO_Volvo_Dan!!]

L8 apex

yes...very... i thought it was a pretty gradual corner, but no. :oops:

[2manyturbos]

yeah... it was understeer due to the decreasing radius, and i had never driven the rode before, and going into the corner you would think it's a fine speed, but at the exit, that's when you relize OOHHH SHIZ this is not a corner you would want to accelerate out of, more like the further you get into the corner, the more you need to brake. but i guess i did the same like lots of other people on the same corner. there are also no speed or warning signs about the corner so that didn't help either...

It could have happened to anybody. Anybody that blasted down the road without previewing it first that is. I don't care how well a car is set up and how good a driver is, it can and does happen. Just like the last autocross event that I ran in. My 1st run, heading into a decreasing radius turn that I had walked 3-4 times, the front tires got onto some very fine gravel that had been pushed to the outside of the turn by the morning session. The car just plain wouldn't stick. My only choice at that point was to pick which cones I wanted to hit with which part of the car. Had I been on a public road, it would have been an accident. Either a guard rail, over the edge, right into an oncoming car, who knows? That said, the San Francisco Region SCCA chapter has autocross events almost year round. You are in the Meca of autocross opportunities. Get online and do a little research and you will find many, many clubs in the area you are attending school that hold events that are open to anyone. I'm glad everyone is OK. It was an expensive lesson.

[TURBO_Volvo_Dan!!]

It could have happened to anybody. Anybody that blasted down the road without previewing it first that is. I don't care how well a car is set up and how good a driver is, it can and does happen. Just like the last autocross event that I ran in. My 1st run, heading into a decreasing radius turn that I had walked 3-4 times, the front tires got onto some very fine gravel that had been pushed to the outside of the turn by the morning session. The car just plain wouldn't stick. My only choice at that point was to pick which cones I wanted to hit with which part of the car. Had I been on a public road, it would have been an accident. Either a guard rail, over the edge, right into an oncoming car, who knows? That said, the San Francisco Region SCCA chapter has autocross events almost year round. You are in the Meca of autocross opportunities. Get online and do a little research and you will find many, many clubs in the area you are attending school that hold events that are open to anyone. I'm glad everyone is OK. It was an expensive lesson.

yes indeedy... it was the worst corner for me to be driving on without knowing the corner... i am definitely going to be refined to track driving once i can even drive again... my dad still wants the blue 240 from you when you finish it... i don't know if you got my voicemail on yesterday asking how the interior was since we were gutting my car at that time.

[schaff70]

Hence the term accident:
"an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally"

I'm just glad everybody was OK. It's rare that both parties walk away from a head-on crash. As for the car, grab whatever you can that's still usable. There's always another brick out there, at least for now. There used to be tons of VW Rabbits when I was into them, now I never see them on the road or in the junkyard - the main reason I got out of VW's.

[2manyturbos]

The interior in the 92, 240 is in good shape. If your interior is in good shape, pull it and list for sale here and on craigslist. You will get good $$ for it.

[BDKR]

L8 apex

Exactly! Or if you are brave and know the corner, run it in deep through the first half, get on the brakes and square the second half. :twisted:


yeah... it was understeer due to the decreasing radius, and i had never driven the rode before, and going into the corner you would think it's a fine speed, but at the exit, that's when you relize OOHHH SHIZ this is not a corner you would want to accelerate out of, more like the further you get into the corner, the more you need to brake. but i guess i did the same like lots of other people on the same corner. there are also no speed or warning signs about the corner so that didn't help either...


It's my opinion that you want to accelerate out of most corners and get to nuetral throttle as quickly as possible to get all the weight (and traction chores) off the front wheel(s). The real problem is that you didn't know this corner. Once you know it, it's a different story completely.

The Santa Cruz boys should be able to tell you that there is a nasty one on Highway 9 as well. It catches bike guys out all the time. For those of us that knew/know of it, we rode the first half at a moderate speed then dove for what could be considered the second apex. On those days when we were on, my friends on BMW's routinely scrubbed the cylinder heads in that corner.

[2manyturbos]

If you want the front tires to stick, you need the weight on them. It looks/sounds like Dan's only option when the car was pushing that bad was to hammer the throttle and swing the back end around. From the pics of the turn, it was too late for that option. That was an Oh s**t moment if there ever was one. Even a turbo 240 just doesn't have the power to pull off that method of directional change. Last weekend a CP Camaro lost it heading into left sweeper at one of our events. The Camaro was headed right toward 3 corner workers that were trapped up against a cyclone fence. Robert, the driver, has autocrossed for years and made the right choice. He nailed the throttle, (500+ HP) twitched the steering and swung the car 180 degrees in an instant. Had he tried braking, he would have hit the fence, possible one of the workers for sure. It was way cool watching him pull it off. No immovable objects to worry about. He was concerned about the corner workers more than anything. I had worked that exact corner the day before and had to keep telling my co-worker, "keep your eyes on the car", quit f***ing around. Last year a worker along the same fence had to actually climb the fence as a car ran right into it. I didn't see it, but, heard about it extensively. That is the one thing I don't like about racing at that facility. Long, narrow and nowhere to run when someone looses it.

[240T man]

damn grammar police

see what I did there??

Of course.

Sucks about the car, Dan. :-(

[GrandmaSideways]

well again it WAS powdercoated, and if i remember yours was one of the 2 white ones i made. i should have listened to my boss when he said powdercoating white is a bitchh. and for a peice of metal in the brace... it was prob a piece of slag tinkling around in there. I'm sorry you weren't happy with the finish, but like i said, i wasn't even gonna powder coat them at all and sell them for $150, but where i worked we had a powdercoater so i was doing it to try to be extra nice. so if you're not happy still then F*CKING SELL IT! i keep on getting people PMing me every so often wanting me to make them a brace still, even had an offer for my brace off my crashed car. Go buy an IPD brace and realize how your car handles like poop again, but at least the most important part to you (the paint) will be nice since they make hundreds. have fun.

The design was nice, but it had to be completely stripped down after only 6months and refinished. I did that and sold it for what I paid, $160, to a local.

[WeezilUSA]

This is why people need to go to driving school... or autocross... or something... You're lucky nobody got hurt.

[gsellstr]

Dan - want a FUN, awesome learning experience that's safe? Take a run at 'Street School' at Thunderhill if they're still doing it. The amount of stuff you learn up there is amazing. Time in YOUR car with an instructor will get you a long ways. Only went to 1 session, spent 2 hours on-track, picked up stuff I use daily, plus stuff I use when driving 'spiritedly'. It's saved my arse a bunch of times, and allowed me to keep the car in 100% control. Dunno if it woulda helped too much for this instance, but for future stuff (plus to help your rep with the 'rents) it would be well-worth the $150-200.

[PRVersion]

well at least it was just metallic blue 4-door that was already trashed to begin with. it did its job, now get another one and get cracking.

i'm not even going to read the thread for 'it'll buff out' content.

[pooprah]

itll buff out. i dont think its been said

[TURBO_Volvo_Dan!!]

The design was nice, but it had to be completely stripped down after only 6months and refinished. I did that and sold it for what I paid, $160, to a local.

good then why are you still complaining a year later? get over it. i haven't had trouble with anyone else...

[Lord_Athlon]

Because you blew me off and were a dick about it.
All I'm saying is Karma came back.

Tool.

[Tick]

Hah, where's the love?

To the op, sucks about your ride man. But it'll definately buff out.

[Mr Yuck]

itll buff out. i dont think its been said

I noticed that around page 3...I was planning on saying that and there you go, on page 4 and ruin it for me.

in other words:
+1

[SwedishBrick242...]

Damn... been there... :-( Almost exactly a year ago actually...

Still haven't rebounded...

[badvlvo]

Damn... been there... :-( Almost exactly a year ago actually...

Still haven't rebounded...

That's because you got a job and a Mazda.

[Crazychopstick]

What kind of suspension was on the 240?

[towerymt]

Sucks about the crash. I've been there....except it was a guardrail instead of a jeep, and I drove my wreck home so it wasn't quite that bad. Too fast, understeer, lock down the brakes and hope for the best. Not much else you can do once it has gone that wrong.

It takes WAY too much area to instantly clutch kick the rear end around (or open the throttle quickly on your 500hp V8). If the e-brake worked and you were skilled with car control, you might possibly get the car sideways to scrub speed, but chances are if you're understeering AT the apex, you aren't making the corner without using more than your share of the road.

The only way to have prevented this would be to reduce entry speed, which is quite obvious. Mistakes happen, and at least no one got hurt.

[Tom Wiley]

What kind of suspension was on the 240?

Cut springs, blistein HD's, IPD 25/25 sways, and his own chassis braces

[crandandall]

Cut springs, blistein HD's, IPD 25/25 sways, and his own chassis braces

Actually the old ipd springs, I'm probably going to use them on my 242 if I don't do coilovers. He gave me the shocks and springs for helping him strip and get rid of the car.

[Tom Wiley]

Actually the old ipd springs, I'm probably going to use them on my 242 if I don't do coilovers. He gave me the shocks and springs for helping him strip and get rid of the car.

Now it seems stupid, but the car handled pretty well.

[fige]

time for another temp ban? lawl

[pooprah]

:e-shrug: its normal brett, some guys just will allways have that attitude, i dunno i just dont care anymore

[fige]

:e-shrug: its normal brett, some guys just will allways have that attitude, i dunno i just dont care anymore

sounds like a good idea... I wish I could just do that.

[pooprah]

well if he calls me out i will but we have had at it before big time then it stopped and i still didn't like him but he backed me up on something and said i was cool. w/e maybe its all these drugs i smoke illegaly make me dumb:lol:

[GrandmaSideways]

well if he calls me out i will but we have had at it before big time then it stopped and i still didn't like him but he backed me up on something and said i was cool. w/e maybe its all these drugs i smoke illegaly make me dumb:lol:

*joke overload*

And I wouldn't have wanted to slide sideways to scrub speed into that jeep.
I dunno, I think hitting it like he did would be safer than had he slid sideways into it and the driver's door had taken the worst of the beating. Maybe on a SIPS equipped car like my 940 it might be a little better, but still...

[2manyturbos]

Sucks about the crash. I've been there....except it was a guardrail instead of a jeep, and I drove my wreck home so it wasn't quite that bad. Too fast, understeer, lock down the brakes and hope for the best. Not much else you can do once it has gone that wrong.

It takes WAY too much area to instantly clutch kick the rear end around (or open the throttle quickly on your 500hp V8). If the e-brake worked and you were skilled with car control, you might possibly get the car sideways to scrub speed, but chances are if you're understeering AT the apex, you aren't making the corner without using more than your share of the road.

The only way to have prevented this would be to reduce entry speed, which is quite obvious. Mistakes happen, and at least no one got hurt.

If you are referring to my post, I wasn't driving the Camaro. I also said it was unobstructed, except, for the fence Robert (the driver of the Camaro) was headed straight for. There is no way Dan could have pulled that one off even if he had the power. Your conclusion is the same one I came to. Too late, oh s**t, wham.

[TURBO_Volvo_Dan!!]

^^ yup...

[Delfosse]

Damn... been there... :-( Almost exactly a year ago actually...

Still haven't rebounded...

me to :-( totaled my 84 244GL back on the 22nd of March. And as of right now, none of my bricks are on the road... The 79 242GT is almost ready though!

[1stRaven]

glad to see that no-one was hurt and it appears that the lesson is being learnt.

As for the Karma comment - don't come crying to me if that statement comes back to bite you.

[fivedoorfury]

Man I hate to see this. Well I actually can't SEE it due to filters on the work pc but reading is enough. I am really glad you guys are ok. TJ and I watched the E30s rage at PIR and there were a few fenderbenders. Seeing Marcs 142 smooshed was a wake up call. I've been known to push my limits a bit but I will def think twice about where and when I am doing it. I can't believe I am reading this BS about Karma. What kind of scumbag would say that esp in what seems to be a memorial thread about someones car.

[NChoy]

A prime example of why I refuse to go on any group drives on public roads.

Unless you're the lead car...

[GrandmaSideways]

Unless you're the lead car...

Bingo.
Did a drive with a bunch of dub owners.
"I don't know how the Volvo got out in front!" said a guy with a highly modified Mk.4 GTi.
It was on purpose, wasn't going to be in the middle of a large group of people pushing it.

[TURBO_Volvo_Dan!!]

while you're deleting things, delete grandma sideways... sorry... this is prob gonna be deleted too...:-P

[speedn_j]

while you're deleting things, delete grandma sideways... sorry... this is prob gonna be deleted too...:-P

ya no sh1t..whats up with the deleted post? too offensive..cant handle the criticism?

[1stRaven]

ya no sh1t..whats up with the deleted post? too offensive..cant handle the criticism?

Just trying to keep this thread semi on track. What criticism?