Spark induced Resets? (sorry another thread..)

[crazy0000]

Okay guys, I know.. I'm starting another thread, and I'm sorry, I really appreciate all your help, this is actually a different problem with its own causes.. I just want to get this stuff sorted out!

So after figuring out my trigger angle was wrong I fixed it(http://forums.turbobricks.com/showpost.php?p=2059807&postcount=133), and I'm running 740ATLs spark map for the time being(because it works now!). A new problem has surfaced... My MS seems to be resetting when I get into the low 9s for spark advance. Its fine everywhere, but once I boost and the spark gets below 10 it will reset. We'll Judging by the log file, its when the timing wants to go below 9 that it resets, sitting at 9 is fine and will not reset.

MS version : MS1-Extra 029y4
MSQ File: http://www.trevermah.com/files/sean/Oct. 13 2008(Spark causing reset.).msq
LOG file: http://www.trevermah.com/files/sean/Ressetting in boost(more like with low spark).xls

Heres a pic of one reset: http://www.trevermah.com/files/sean/Resetspark.png


I don't believe this problem is new, because when I had my boost control hooked up, and would go to 8-9 PSI, it would reset the exact same way, and the way my spark map was set up, when I was at 8-9PSI my timing was around 9 degrees(I'm just saying the correlation ...)


Why would having a spark advance below 9 cause a reset? No resistor in the wire that goes to the 139 module? Ugh... frustrating! Could this have something to do with the fact that my car runs with Inverted Spark Output set to Yes?

[Matt Cramer]

Can you induce resets by retarding the timing to 8 or 9 at idle or in low load areas, or is it just under boost?

[crazy0000]

That was my next test :), let me eat dinner and ill give it a go.

Is this a "normal" problem by any chance? or one you've never heard of.

[crazy0000]

Had my car idling( I didnt check low load, woops, damnit!) at 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 degrees of timing, no resets(only when I burnt to ECU), which is weird, but sometimes it does that if I keep burning it.

Does this make the problem easier to solve?

[Matt Cramer]

Hiccups when burning to the ECU are pretty normal. I wonder if it's some other factor - like misfires caused by spark blowout - that is happening at the same time that the engine also needs a lot of spark retard. Does narrowing your spark plug gap do anything about the resets?

[linuxman51]

I can't see the msq (at work, no megatune), whats the trigger angle and what ignition setup? FWIW your timing is *very* conservative for the rpm and boost, to the point that its a very real possibility its causing issues with the charge lighting off. When was the last time you replaced spark plugs?
Another thing you might try (in addition to bumping the timing) is adding fuel. Mid 13's at 5ish psi isn't a big deal, but it is on the lean side of things, you don't want to start knocking that low in the power band.

[crazy0000]

Okay, yeah I just changed my trigger angle to 72, my car is really weird, but it is 72 for sure, cause I put it at TDC and everything lined up to 0 for the timing mark and everything. So then I proceded to match my timing to the crank timing, and it turns out that 60 degree trigger angle was12 degrees more advanced than my car... and I haven't changed anything since LH 2.4! But yeah the A/R may be a little on the lean side since I loaded 740ATLs map, not that I have the correct trigger angle(I couldn't use it be\fore because if you take his map and add 12degrees, yeah a little nuts) and haven't adjusted the fuel map yet, I've been trying to figure out this problem and can't really even boost there to find out, because it just resets.


Spark blowout would cause resets? How? It would make a a lot of sense though... I'm running BPR6ES, maybe I should switch to 7s? They are gapped correctly now, I'll close the gap a bit.

[linuxman51]

noise and things like that. Usually not as big a problem on setups with ignition modules like the 139, make sure you've got clean grounds & enough of them.

[crazy0000]

So yesterday I started my car at school. Its running fine. Plug in my laptop and randomly my car shuts off, and won't start back up. I have no RPM signal on the cars tach, it doesn't do anything. I'm headed there right now to see whats up I brought my MS home to see if there were any loose solders and nothing, nothing looks fried, it talks to the computer still it just doesnt want to give a spark signal.

[MrDoug]

Try another 139 module if you have one, its probably fried from running inverted

[crazy0000]

Gah! its not the module, just checked MS, its not getting a RPM signal either... So either the VR sensor fried, or something in MS fried. I'm going to try sticking the stock EZK back into the car and see if I get spark, that way I can narrow it down to MS or the sensor. If I get spark with the EZK then its MS...

[crazy0000]

Heres an Odd update, and I'm really not sure why this happened.

Well I took megasquirt out a little, just really doing whatever I can to remove the resets(still can't), but for the longest time I was running spark output inverted=yes with my bosch 139 module(everyone says thats wrong, maybe it is, I'm not doubting it either, it just lets my car run properly)... Well I took MS out of my car, and just for the heck of it(since I wasn't using it) I removed the boost control stuff from inside the box and cleaned it up(I had an idea that it wasn't properly insulated.). Well a few weird things were happening with my idle, it kept dipping really low for no reason, then it decided to sit at 400 and not idle any higher unless I pressed the throttle. Well from there I was messing with some settings and just for the heck of it changed my spark output inverted= NO, and the car still ran! Every time I had done this before the car would pop once or twice then turn off and not turn back on. This time it was idling nice and smooth. Pulled out the timing light, it was exactly 12 degrees advanced, so I changed the trigger angle to 72(was 60 before), and had dead on timing. I though for some strange reason maybe, the boost control stuff for some reason was messing with my timing, not letting me run inverted. So I started to drive the car went a bit into boost, and it was knocking like crazy! Pulled off to the side of the road and set all the timing stuff back to normal..
I guess what I'm getting at is why would removing my boost control stuff allow me to run spark output inverted=no, and why would it knock when I set it to that...? I'm honestly mystified by this whole thing.


Also what would cause a reset every time I load and burn an MSQ file. it happens right at the end of the burning process(like a second before it stops). everytime

[crazy0000]

Fixed...
For now.

[permieshane]

With boost control working?

[crazy0000]

No (not hooked up) But! I will guarantee boost control will work now, and it was not the problem, though removing it did help me understand a little of why it wasn't working. But when I decide to take my MS out of my car again, I hesitate cause I've unscrewed it out of my car like 50 times and I just want to leave it there for a bit since its running right now, boost control will work.

I don't have resets at all, and I mean, never (I'm so jinxing myself... Owell!!)
Basically my spark trigger was hooked up wrong... For some reason I had it in my head that I was supposed to hook it up differently, It was probably just in mass confusing when I was first setting up my MS trying to get my coil to fire(a long time ago...)
So I used this picture, for some reason I didn't before(I'm stupid :e-shrug:)
http://www.msextra.com/manuals/MS_Extra_Hardware_Manual_files/1out5V3.GIF

Now I run spark output inverted= "No" Can you believe it??! And all you guys were right, and I'm sorry for doubting anyones knowledge! Not that I was saying I knew better, all I knew before was that my car ran when I had Spark Output Inverted= yes, but yep everyone was right With a 139 Module while running the stock LH 2.4 VR sensor and 60-2 flywheel you run Spark Output Inverted = No

I hope this thread helps out future megasquirters.