Ram-Air For 740 Turbos

[boostdemon]

By: Brooks Gillmore

Description: Simple low cost ram-air construction for the 740 turbo

http://www.turbobricks.com/mods.php?content=art0016

[boosted]

hahaha i remember that as the first performance article i ever read on volvos... got bored, did it, loved the results

if you want to start scratching that performance itch, do this, it's fun

[Doomsday2024]

yah, this articles was good, but my mod was even simpler, just 2 holes and dryer tubing in between.

[Greenchunks]

Yeah I think this was a lto of our first mods. It seems so long ago now......

[slipstream3d]

Hmm, what happens if you live in Canada where you *need* the hot air? Lol...

[xtonyx]

link didnt work when i clicked it..

[Cornercase]

Here's the new link

http://www.turbobricks.com/mods.php?content=art0016

Eamon

[Al]

You just made my job easier. I was looking at doing something similar. I didn't want to butcher the Air box in my 97 960 to get more air. I was thinking of running a tube made of PVC under the factory snorkel and into the box. Kind of like an additional stealth intake hidden by the factory unit. I never thought of using plastic hose or two. Thanks you just save me a lot of work. As soon as I can find another air box to cut up for this install I'll be good to go.

[engraverwilliam]

I plan on doing this soon.

On my 740 airbox at the bottom it has the one tube going from the box out the side fender to get it's air. directly opposite of that is another outlet that has a barrier held in place by a screw. I plan on running a hose from that to someplace in front of the car behind the grill to pick up additional cool air while I drive.
From the looks of it, I shouldn't need to cut my airbox at all!

[Icanhazbewst]

I plan on doing this soon.

On my 740 airbox at the bottom it has the one tube going from the box out the side fender to get it's air. directly opposite of that is another outlet that has a barrier held in place by a screw. I plan on running a hose from that to someplace in front of the car behind the grill to pick up additional cool air while I drive.
From the looks of it, I shouldn't need to cut my airbox at all!

:roll: You should do whats proven to work here. On the otherhand your not the first to do this grand plan of yours so have it! :-P

[NotSoFresh]

holy thread bump batman...
3 years 10 months 30 days or:
1430 days
123,552,000 seconds
2,059,200 minutes
34,320 hours
204 weeks (rounded down)

[engraverwilliam]

Hehe yeah sorry for the zombie resurrection of this thread. :freak: I would do it like the OP's article, accept that without some sort of pics. I really can't tell what he has done based on his description alone. If somebody has pictures of this mod, I would be much obliged.


I based my own idea of this off of what I can see with my airbox having had it all apart. :volvo:

[Icanhazbewst]

Dump the air box, get a cone, feed cold air to it, done. Not much for improvment but fairly easy.

[Hagar17]

yep

[tjts1]

Dump the air box, get a cone, feed cold air to it, done. Not much for improvment but fairly easy.

Worst idea ever

[Hagar17]

Ram air on a car is the worst idea ever

[WindowsBreakerG4]

Has everyone used pipe? I found that 2.5" is the perfect size though it is hard to find. How are people blending it into the box?

[Icanhazbewst]

Worst idea ever

Which is why I said not much for improvment, BUT I BET ITS NEVAR BEEN DONE B4!:-P And lets face it, cold air intake on teh turbo'd cars dosnt really do much but sound cool anyway.

[tjts1]

Ram air on a car is the worst idea ever
Really? Have you tried it?
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_110824/article.html
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_0663/article.html
And lets face it, cold air intake on teh turbo'd cars dosnt really do much but sound cool anyway.
If you say so.
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_1023/article.html
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_0779/article.html
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_1605/article.html

[Hagar17]

Really? Have you tried it?
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_110824/article.html
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_0663/article.html

If you say so.
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_1023/article.html
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_0779/article.html
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_1605/article.html

At best you can negate the drag made by the filter - not one dyno test proves it makes for 1HP

Cold air - yes but Volvo 740s have that already! Adding accordian hose to intake?!? that will just create more turbulent airflow.

RAM AIR DOES NOTHING ON A CAR - DOESN'T TAKE AN ENGINEER TO FIGURE THIS OUT

No more replies to this thread unless you can dyno / track prove me wrong!

[stylngle2003]

cold air is good, period. the intercooler removes a percentage of heat from the air, not a set number of degrees. start with colder air, end with colder air

[badvlvo]

If ram air does nothing on a car then why are so many race cars using it to feed their engines? Hmmmmm. "DOESN'T TAKE AN ENGINEER TO FIGURE THIS OUT"

No more replies to this thread unless you can dyno / track prove me wrong!
Ram air does not work on a dyno, the car needs to be moving. "DOESN'T TAKE AN ENGINEER TO FIGURE THIS OUT"


And colder air = denser air = more HP potential. "DOESN'T TAKE AN ENGINEER TO FIGURE THIS OUT"

[700volts]

.....And lets face it, cold air intake on teh turbo'd cars dosnt really do much but sound cool anyway.

That's reason enough for me :-D

[tjts1]

:blah:

Read more, talk less. You'll sound smarter.

[badvlvo]

Read more, talk less. You'll sound smarter.

He really should diversify his information resources before he makes statments he expects to be taken as fact. And the sad thing is that he was trying to sound smart. He probably still thinks he is right because someone who claims to know something about this told him that it doesn't work.

[mickeys240]

Oh You CAN make HP out of it. And it DOES work. But are you prepared to turn you r whole fron end into a filter and then drive 120 MILES PER HOUR (240 Kph?) to really get that 10-20 hp boost that is all negated from the drag from all that surface area?



It's like buying dollar tree steaks. Not much point... But if your hungry, It gets the job.. Started...

And for experince, It works VERY WELL for response.

But HP is kind of like a lost cause.


I UNDERSTAND I AM GOING TO BE THE BUTT OF ALL JOKES FOR A WHILE, BUT ANYWAYS,..

I hooked up my shop vac to my PT crusier. It was the 6 PEAK hp variaty. I did it with the filter on and off.

One great way of telling when the vacume cleaner was no longer a power adder was to monitor the difrent tone and sound that was eminating from the filter on the shop vac.

I also did a "Pull" or rev with the filter off and with the blower I had.

The blower blowed in more air and did not create a flow restriction till much latter in the rev (read-RPM RANGE) counters.. (Don't know when, and where, it was last summer. )

So the real differnce between what I did and RAM air is the volume of air.

I can say that it felt to have more response. But not fast enough to compensate for the vacume of the cylinders upon opening the intake valves..

So actully weirdly, (Based on sound and tone and the surges in the plastic pipe) It did better after idle then it did AT Idle. so say in the range of 2500 RPM with steady throtle on a 2.5 engine, It worked well.

Quick BLIPS on the throttle showed more Snapiness and response.

I tried to compensate for the volume of air by hooking up the shop vac and the blower into a "T" fitting and using another shop vac I had pumping air into the other one. But I had no T fiting that worked with the pipe diamers I had. So the experiment kind of ended there.

However.

(FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NO WONDER OREGON HAS A WEIRD MANTRA. ITS BECAUSE OF ME. )

i GOT OUT 3 100' EXTENSION CORDS AND HOOKED THEM UP TO A 30 AMP CIRCUIT (WASHER)

I accelerated the length of my property (150 feet apx. ) WITH BOTH VACUUM CLEANERS HOOKED UP IN SERIES WITH NO FILTER with pipe sticking out from the window to underneath the hood connected right to the throttle body sealed with duct tape.


I got a nice "kick" at start going up the hill. But after about mid way, felt the same.

And managed not to break or snag a extension cord while in the VERY short process.

Next time, Ill tape it, and use a potable generator and try to hot rod one of the vacs to 240V power.

It kind of gives me a reason to get up in the morning...

I also tried it on a 4 cycle lawnmower, But did not work either. Just died. I guess it is a carborator thing. I think it gets its gas from the sucking of the piston. So when I put the "Turbo" air to it. It died. (Lack of fuel)

I tried this with Everclear and gas. And then for ****s and gigiles, Ran Canola Soybeean oil for Oil.

Ran for about a year. till I burnt a valve...


Ram air is more response then HP.

I have the video on google video for lawnmover part....

<embed id="VideoPlayback" src="http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=1345898877188971150&hl=en&fs=true" style="width:400px;height:326px" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"> </embed>

Wonder how much Ill get flamed for this one...

[GrandmaSideways]

Worst idea ever

Seems to work fine for me...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/redstripe302/Volvo/940%20in%20Oregon/IMG_0113.jpg
And lets face it, cold air intake on teh turbo'd cars dosnt really do much but sound cool anyway.
HUH?
Next time we go for a several hour long drive, I'll pop the hood and make you stick your hand on both sides of that shield. There is a definite difference, that you can feel.

[Hagar17]

QUOTE=GrandmaSideways;2417109]Seems to work fine for me...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/redstripe302/Volvo/940%20in%20Oregon/IMG_0113.jpg

HUH?
Next time we go for a several hour long drive, I'll pop the hood and make you stick your hand on both sides of that shield. There is a definite difference, that you can feel.[/QUOTE]

Actually cold air/flow is more important for your IC - once the air gets compressed its hot your IC will bring it down closer to ambient. CAI preturbo might help a bit but your IC is the real key factor.

This of course has nothing to do with Ram air - and again if you think the air is moving faster outside your car than through the intake then your car must be really really fast! :rofl:

[Hagar17]

some links for info on intakes...

http://www.isuzuperformance.com/isupage/tech/intake.html

http://www.bankspower.com/techarticles/show/31-How-Air-Flows

http://autospeed.com/cms/A_1023/article.html?popularArticle

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Airboxes.html

http://www.cvphysiology.com/Hemodynamics/H007.htm

http://mgcgti.com/Page36.html

should be some food for thought.

[TurbOwner]

will this argument ever end?

[GrandmaSideways]

Actually cold air/flow is more important for your IC - once the air gets compressed its hot your IC will bring it down closer to ambient. CAI preturbo might help a bit but your IC is the real key factor.

This of course has nothing to do with Ram air - and again if you think the air is moving faster outside your car than through the intake then your car must be really really fast! :rofl:

Oh I know, but he said that CAI doesn't do anything... There's at least a few degrees difference.
Maybe sometime I'll hang thermometers on both sides.

As for the dumb idea - well, having a cone, with cold air fed to it, is not a stupid idea.

[Hagar17]

yep but again this thread is about RAM AIR and I say and IMO this is an urban myth.

Sure run a car on a track at over 200Km/h ok might be some benefit but for most people here it will do nothing.

otherwise why would they not design cars with them already? Oh yeah all those car engineers don't know about this 'secret' power upgrade or it's 'illegal' or something. sheesh!

ha ha fun thread! lolz

Seriously though read my links some good info in there and will get you thinking about it at least. (thinking is better than trying to reply and attack fellow tbr's on this thread!)

[Hagar17]

One more tidbit for those who think I don't research anything...

http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_9508_ram/index.html

[engraverwilliam]

Ok, so this is what I have done.

On my airbox at the bottom there are two inlets. One goes out to the fender and the other had a plastic "cork". All I've done is remove that cork and inserted a length of heater hose. I directed the heater hose through the front of the car to behind the grill. I faced it sideways instead of forward to help keep rain out of it. Now I have two sources of air entering my box. The immediate results that I can feel under foot are that my acceleration is more responsive. As stated above I have not noticed any increase in power, only that when I step on it to pass on the freeway and when the light turns green, I can feel a noticeable lack of hesitation that it did before.

Someday I may go the cone filter/partition route, but for now this seems to be the effect I was looking for.

good links ^ by the way :-) I learned a lot from them thank you.

[F1reBird]

Which is why I said not much for improvment, BUT I BET ITS NEVAR BEEN DONE B4!:-P And lets face it, cold air intake on teh turbo'd cars dosnt really do much but sound cool anyway.

oh it's been done before.. by.. me!
http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs037.snc1/3305_73748777205_667617205_1595438_1126884_n.jpg

here was my stock airbox cold air setup (which didnt fit with the new intercooler so i had to get a cone)
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e13/Turbotanki4/installed.jpg

you know..this whole "ram air" thing is a misconception.. i think instead of calling it ram air.. we should just call it a cold air intake.. becasue that's what it's doing... even at 25mph its forcing cold outside air into where the cone sits and that will always be better than closed off engine heat air.

[Icanhazbewst]

Oh I know, but he said that CAI doesn't do anything... There's at least a few degrees difference.
Maybe sometime I'll hang thermometers on both sides.

As for the dumb idea - well, having a cone, with cold air fed to it, is not a stupid idea.

...I said it dosnt do much, not it dosn't do anything:-P

[Icanhazbewst]

Ok, so this is what I have done.

On my airbox at the bottom there are two inlets. One goes out to the fender and the other had a plastic "cork". All I've done is remove that cork and inserted a length of heater hose. I directed the heater hose through the front of the car to behind the grill. I faced it sideways instead of forward to help keep rain out of it. Now I have two sources of air entering my box. The immediate results that I can feel under foot are that my acceleration is more responsive. As stated above I have not noticed any increase in power, only that when I step on it to pass on the freeway and when the light turns green, I can feel a noticeable lack of hesitation that it did before.

Someday I may go the cone filter/partition route, but for now this seems to be the effect I was looking for.

good links ^ by the way :-) I learned a lot from them thank you.

It would seem you have entered into the world of ass dynoing, enjoy!

[Icanhazbewst]

oh it's been done before.. by.. me!
http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs037.snc1/3305_73748777205_667617205_1595438_1126884_n.jpg

here was my stock airbox cold air setup (which didnt fit with the new intercooler so i had to get a cone)
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e13/Turbotanki4/installed.jpg

you know..this whole "ram air" thing is a misconception.. i think instead of calling it ram air.. we should just call it a cold air intake.. becasue that's what it's doing... even at 25mph its forcing cold outside air into where the cone sits and that will always be better than closed off engine heat air.

Your sig kinda makes me giggle....Garret T3 watercooled turbo...errr stock maybe?:-P

T3 at 28PSI BITCH

Your new setup is way cooler(hehe)...zipties and all!!

[engraverwilliam]

...... the world of ass dynoing.....


wut? :freak::omg:

[Hagar17]

My car is NA so I went with least turbulent and high laminar flow (aka big pipe few bends)

One thing about ditching the airbox and heat flapper pipe etc - more engine bay room and less weight than my cone and ghetto fab cold air...

Once the larger TB went in I did notice a difference for sure - but a clean stock filter flows plenty for stock car setup.

[F1reBird]

Your sig kinda makes me giggle....Garret T3 watercooled turbo...errr stock maybe?:-P


in MY DEFENSE.. its a T3 on the 90+ manifold (which normally have the mistus) :-P

ahaha

[F1reBird]

...I said it dosnt do much, not it dosn't do anything:-P

ALSO.. if i put the headlight back on ( ie no cold "ram air) or if its idling in the city the temp goes WAY UP..3/4s on the guage.. but as soon as i start moving..no matter WhAT SPEEDS the temp will drop to a lil below normal operating range :e-shrug:

and since i got the cone filter in its gotten ALOT FASTER
of course i installed it with the new intercooler..but thats besides the pint :-P

[Icanhazbewst]

in MY DEFENSE.. its a T3 on the 90+ manifold (which normally have the mistus) :-P

ahaha

Touche

[Icanhazbewst]

ALSO.. if i put the headlight back on ( ie no cold "ram air) or if its idling in the city the temp goes WAY UP..3/4s on the guage.. but as soon as i start moving..no matter WhAT SPEEDS the temp will drop to a lil below normal operating range :e-shrug:

and since i got the cone filter in its gotten ALOT FASTER
of course i installed it with the new intercooler..but thats besides the pint :-P

pint:wtf: Anyways, I have no high beam the air filter is like right behind that hole. Its cool but not too big a difference. I am not saying that cold air is bad but its not like its a shot of nos or somthing:lol:

[F1reBird]

pint:wtf: Anyways, I have no high beam the air filter is like right behind that hole. Its cool but not too big a difference. I am not saying that cold air is bad but its not like its a shot of nos or somthing:lol:

point*


lol def.. no noticable dif in performance... just.. it makes me feel better:-P

[Hagar17]

nothing replaces placebo power!:-P

[Icanhazbewst]

:lol: I love you guys(in the most non-homo way) and this thread!!

[NotSoFresh]

ALSO.. if i put the headlight back on ( ie no cold "ram air) or if its idling in the city the temp goes WAY UP..3/4s on the guage.. but as soon as i start moving..no matter WhAT SPEEDS the temp will drop to a lil below normal operating range :e-shrug:

and since i got the cone filter in its gotten ALOT FASTER
of course i installed it with the new intercooler..but thats besides the pint :-P
maybe you got a different prob if you heat up like that.

[F1reBird]

maybe you got a different prob if you heat up like that.

naw... its the same symptoms as when the airbox flapper is stuck open on the hot side

[n. rippe]

I did the same thing to my airbox, except without the silicone surrounding the openings.

[tjts1]

Since it seems like most people around here didn't bother to read the original post from 5 years ago.
RAM-AIR FOR 740 TURBOS.
by Brooks Gillmore.

If you're interested in making your Volvo faster (and I think you ALL are)read on, I have a story.

Last Saturday afternoon, I was sitting around at my friend's house bored stupid. I had nothing to do. SO. Fire up the computer. Pointed the browser toward www.turbobricks.com and stumbled upon the 740 airbox area of the MODS section. (You want to read that, by the way, it's quite interesting)

Finally, something to do. Print that thing. Called up my grease-monkey friend Clay with the 1800ES (wanted some help should I accidentally bust my precious 740TI) and told him I was going to rip out my airbox and play with it.

I pulled the car into the garage, opened up that wide-mouth hood and removed the airbox. Took out all that stuff that Volvo put in there.. Warm air from the engine compartment? Don't need that, I live in Texas my car is warm in an instant, even in January. So we epoxyed it shut. I decided to go for the all-out performance airbox, all restrictions were to be eliminated. Which meant that the limited airflow allowed by the inside-the-fender tube would have to go. Looking down below the headlight assembly, Clay spotted a punch-out hole, put there for some option that I didn't have. It was about three inches in diameter, perfect for the new intake I wanted. But how to get the cool outside air from the hole to the airbox? Solution: Home Depot.

We hopped in the 1800 and went for a ride. I bought a few feet of their thickest rubber hose (about 2" inside diameter) and a few 45 degree 2" PVC connectors and went back to my friend's house where my Volvo sat in the garage and got to work. I used an exacto knife to carve a rough circle in the front of my airbox and punched it out. The next step was to route a tube from the new hole in the box through the hole in the metal wall below the headlights with the PVC pipe and hose. After that, I routed the hose from under the headlights inside the bumper to the little air dam that has my fog lights in it. While I was occupying myself with this, Clay had removed the little plastic sheath that directs air from the three vents in the air dam to the radiator and stole the vent closest to the airbox for a ram-air intake.

He used a little piece of ultra-thin plywood (from my friend's hovercraft project, you don't want to know) to redirect the air from that one radiator intake vent into the tube that leads to the airbox.

The net gain? A 740 turbo with dual cold air intakes (the fender intake and the new ram-air) no hot air intake, more punch and a faster throttle response, especially for high speed passing. My turbo now seems to spin up on a whim, and the car just feels faster. The net cost? $23.17 and four hours of my time. Not bad for a high school student on a budget. I'll be finalizing it soon. All the duct tape used to seal the tubes will be replaced with epoxy and the plywood with lexan or plexiglass. That should add about $10 to the cost, still well worth it. I would suggest this to anyone who wants more air for his or her Volvo; it's fairly easy, and very cheap.

You may want to find a junkyard airbox, so you can play with it at your leisure, and be sure that you've got it right. If I could do it again, I would do this; it would be worth it not to spread the project out over two weekends and to eliminate the temporary parts. My last step is a trip to a junkyard to find a ram-air logo to put on my car, because a ram-air Volvo just begs to be flaunted.

Good luck!

[Hagar17]

not ram air .... 'feels like' ain't proof
4hours ?? + 23 bucks is cheap? u don't value your time?

oh yeah I'm sold on it.

[smokeyfan1000]

I did something similar to my 78 245(naturally aspirated) I routed a 4" elbow in place of 2 " deal Volvo used. Also went with 2 1/4 Turbo exhaust(cat back) and a (IIRC) Dynomax muffler I found in the road in Burlington NC(it looked like it had JUST fallen off a car, because it was just tack welded on)that looked NEW, no rust just a scratch or 2. I did before & after 10 mph to 70 mph(used a sign on entry ramp on hiway for start point and bride for end point. Gained 9 mph!! And revvved up a whole hell of a lot quicker,by the tach! So much, I had to be prepared to shift gears quicker. This B21 n/a had 400,000 + miles too !! Recently modified my 91 244 n/a ,by using hot air pipe(at ex. manifold) as an additional cold air intake,routed to pass side of radiator support(there's a hole already there!) and using the behind the grille "snorkle" set up like the airbox side does. While the aluminum pipe still picks up a little heat from convection from radiator and manifold, I still got an improvement. Before mod, engine quit making power(or quit pulling) at 4600 rpm. Now makes power to 5500 rpm. Pulls harder too. Seems to use a little bit more gas, although I have not actually check the gas milage when filling up YET! Was getting 27 mpg(that was feathering the pedal!) I will check MPG soon. SO, my point is: I BELIEVE HIM!!!! I BELIEVE HE DID IMPROVE THE PERFORMANCE OF HIS ENGINE/CAR. The "seat of the pants" dyno usually works well. Probably a lot considering he Turboed. Something I NOTICED was 78 245 air box intake tract(WHERE IT GOES THRU RAD. SUPPORT AND BEHIND THE GRILLE) WAS QUITE large!! 91 244 WHERE IT TURNS TO CLEAR THE LATE MODEL HEADLIGHT WAS ONLY1/7/8 -2" sMALL HOLE FOR 141 CU IN ENGINE IF YOU ASK ME.1978 b21245 TRACT WASAS BIG AS HOSE ON BOTTOM OF AIRBOX WHERE IT GOES THRU RAD SUPP. AND THEN GOT BIGGER AND NECK DOWN TO THE SNORKLE.SIZE. CHECK IT OUT, YOU WILL SEE WHAT I MEAN!

[Hagar17]

uh yeah like all that makes sense. Kids, don't drink and post!

oh and stay in school

. :-P

[badvlvo]

uh yeah like all that makes sense. Kids, don't drink and post!

oh and stay in school

. :-P

What did you learn in school?

Any good professor will teach you that what you read in a book is not the end all, be all of knowledge. There is practical application that must take place to test the theorys that you learn in school.

Keep talking ****, it only makes you look even worse.

[smokeyfan1000]

It makes a lot of sense, if you actually go look at the differences between the intake tracts on 78-93 normally aspirated Volvo's and are not afraid to learn something. Really don't understand YOUR post.

[smokeyfan1000]

I don't know if RAM AIR is the correct term in my case it is the increase in air flow, that gave me my performance gain. Engine was starving for more CFM. I will never believe a 2" hole will flow CFM for 141 ci. Could be wrong, but the increase in upper RPM range proves I was right, IMO.

[Hagar17]

What did you learn in school?

Any good professor will teach you that what you read in a book is not the end all, be all of knowledge. There is practical application that must take place to test the theorys that you learn in school.

Keep talking ****, it only makes you look even worse.

I've seen zero proof posted here.

And you wanted to sell me an alternator??? Stop trash talking potential customers and fellow tbr's and start putting up something to back up your talk.

I've put up a few articles to support my position...even one with a dyno tested ram air!

[tjts1]

A 6 year old thread in the vault isn't the place for you to try to start a pissing match. If you don't think this works, fine, write up an article to prove your point, post it in article composition section for peer review and if you have something worthwhile to contribute the mods will move it to the vault. You don't need to keep repeating yourself here. You don't think it works. We get it. Move on.

[badvlvo]

I've seen zero proof posted here.

And you wanted to sell me an alternator??? Stop trash talking potential customers and fellow tbr's and start putting up something to back up your talk.

I've put up a few articles to support my position...even one with a dyno tested ram air!

Actually, no I don't want to sell you anything at all. Thanks. TBer's have proven to be too cheap to buy anything of quality.

Oooohhh... dyno tested... there's a reliable way to simulate the change in air pressure and temp. Cooler air = more power. Ram air will get you a cooler air charge. Cooler air = higher density = more HP. Also opening up the air inlet for better flow will improve potential for HP.

Some of us have been building cars for long enough to know what works. Cold air, forced in if possible is the best way to go.

[NotSoFresh]

TBer's have proven to be too cheap to buy anything of quality.

I can see you are also a member of turbobricks, so you must be refering to yourself here.
No-one is saying ram air doesn't work.
Many have said cold air is good.
Many have said there are better ways to spend money.
May i ask where you BOUGHT your quality ram air kit?
Have you ever thought that the front of a brick is huge, and the air funnels into the middle, creating a high pressure zone behind grill. This high pressure air is shared by the cooling system and the intake. THIS IS RAM AIR. IT IS BUILT IN.

Could you please upload the graphs of engine rpm/intake temp/outside temp/egt for all the ram air tests you have done at various speeds, before you slander large groups of people.
If you have no actual data, SHUT UP, and let those who do speak.

[smokeyfan1000]

If you proved it to him, he still would not want to believe it.IMO. I know it helped both of my cars, so that is what counts.

[badvlvo]

If you proved it to him, he still would not want to believe it.IMO. I know it helped both of my cars, so that is what counts.

It would seem that Hagar and Notsofresh have their panties in a twist.

Oh well, there's better things for me to do like go finish the RAM AIR hood for my truck. :lol:

[NotSoFresh]

It would seem that Hagar and Notsofresh have their panties in a twist.

Oh well, there's better things for me to do like go finish the RAM AIR hood for my truck. :lol:
they are pink and red with little frills on them.
I actually dont care, i am just tired of people saying they know everything about everything, with nothing to back it up. I also dont feel slander is appropriate in this forum.

[Hagar17]

how many production cars have ram air?:-P

[780Racer]

1969 GTO judge?
1969 mustang GT mach 1 w/ shaker hood?

2 off the top of my head at like 4:20 am.....time to call it a night!

[Hagar17]

surely such a thing has been on a production vehicle since the late 60's / early 70's

I would think a lot of race vehicles would have this too...

[NotSoFresh]

Engines with a carb on top need it cause the air filter is so far from the front of the vehicle. Any newer vehicle pulls its air from the air box, which is in the front (the coldest spot of the vehicle), with an intake hole behind the grill, this is factory ram air. I think some of the confusion in this thread is from people thinking that air box improvements constitute ram air. You already have ram air. A cone filter behind that grill IS also ram air. The space behind the grill is a high pressure zone. Due to the design, most stock volvos already pull their air from a cold high pressure zone. This is why doing a "ram air setup" (like a duct to the headlight or valance) does not give the same improvement to power as getting cold air to the carb. There may be a performance increase in an efi vehicle, but this is not from cooler air, it is from a less restrictive intake. This is why i asked to see temp numbers of intake charge before and after mod for those who disagree. Air volume may increase but the temp drop will be miniscule. For a quick test, tape a thermometer inside your air box. get the car going fast and hot, and pull over quick to check temp. I bet it is not even 3 degrees higher than ambient.

[Hagar17]

yes I think this is where I feel 'ram-air' is a misnomer. Cold air is more like it...
my whole point was that the pressure outside intake can not amount to any performance enhancing
amount at speeds below 200 km/h thus I feel the concept of 'ram air' is of no benefit to most car drivers.
A free flowing exhaust although much more expensive than 'ram air' mods is something most drivers will be able to take advantage of and see tangible results.

[smokeyfan1000]

Don't forget Hemi Cudas, 440 Mopars, 63 Ford Fairlane "Thunderbolts" ,428 and 429 Cobra Jet and Super Cobra Jets Mustang, Torinos, Rancheros. 70 (and 71&72) SS Chevelles( they had "Cowl Induction" using the base of windshield pressure zone(as do ALL NASCAR race cars) 427 Comets, GTO Judge Most all 442 Olds had it as an option since 66. And the list goes on. Oh, and not to mention just about every car at the drag strip. Where has that guy been since 1963????? Holy Cow Batman! :rofl::omg:::lol:

[NotSoFresh]

Don't forget Hemi Cudas, 440 Mopars, 63 Ford Fairlane "Thunderbolts" ,428 and 429 Cobra Jet and Super Cobra Jets Mustang, Torinos, Rancheros. 70 (and 71&72) SS Chevelles( they had "Cowl Induction" using the base of windshield pressure zone(as do ALL NASCAR race cars) 427 Comets, GTO Judge Most all 442 Olds had it as an option since 66. And the list goes on. Oh, and not to mention just about every car at the drag strip. Where has that guy been since 1963????? Holy Cow Batman! :rofl::omg:::lol:


\every one of those is carbed, with the air intake right under the hood, in the middle, in the heat. cut a hole, less heat, more cold air. EFI cars come with cold air intake. That is why in ~1975 cars started coming with airboxes in the front fot fuel injection and those stupid snorkel things for carbs.

[GrandmaSideways]

yes I think this is where I feel 'ram-air' is a misnomer. Cold air is more like it...
my whole point was that the pressure outside intake can not amount to any performance enhancing
amount at speeds below 200 km/h thus I feel the concept of 'ram air' is of no benefit to most car drivers.
A free flowing exhaust although much more expensive than 'ram air' mods is something most drivers will be able to take advantage of and see tangible results.

Bingo.
The Porsche GT3 actually makes more horsepower at speed due to the intake being on the ass end of the car and it being forced in at a higher velocity, but there is no way to simulate that on a dyno

[smokeyfan1000]

Just because it is on ass end does not mean there is not hi pressure air in that area. Is that why a rear spoiler creates downforce??? Also, for every 10 degress in temp you cool air, you get 1 HP. This is a proven fact. Proven by Smokey Yunick in 66. On my 91 244 I increased available CFM by making preheat hose into a extra air intake behind grille. It is now faster. I proved it to myself. I hope to insulate it soon,to keep the heat off of it from radiator,& ex manifold. But yes, cold air is more like it, but the way I did 78 245 with 4" elbow facing front of car seemed to do better. But 78 intake tract is larger due to smaller headlights left more room. 91 is really cramped here. Back to the air temp deal, isn't that what an INTERCOOLER DOES???????????

[Hagar17]

Don't forget Hemi Cudas, 440 Mopars, 63 Ford Fairlane "Thunderbolts" ,428 and 429 Cobra Jet and Super Cobra Jets Mustang, Torinos, Rancheros. 70 (and 71&72) SS Chevelles( they had "Cowl Induction" using the base of windshield pressure zone(as do ALL NASCAR race cars) 427 Comets, GTO Judge Most all 442 Olds had it as an option since 66. And the list goes on. Oh, and not to mention just about every car at the drag strip. Where has that guy been since 1963????? Holy Cow Batman! :rofl::omg:::lol:


ha ha where has ram air been since the sixities / early seventies??

by production car I should have stated 'current production car'
or maybe more accurately 'current production turbo car'

IMO ram air is a waste of time on a turbo and my whole point is advising newbie TBr's to make the effort is really lame. Put on a better exhaust or something worthwhile!

If people do it and feel it works great - go for it - I just don't see any proof that this works in anything I've seen so far.

[WindowsBreakerG4]

The last gen trans am Ws6 had ram air. According to wikipedia stats it looks to have been good for about 20 horse

5.7L-16V V8 (LS1)
1998-2002 305-330 bhp
1998-2002 (ram air) 320-350 bhp

[Hagar17]

The last gen trans am Ws6 had ram air. According to wikipedia stats it looks to have been good for about 20 horse

5.7L-16V V8 (LS1)
1998-2002 305-330 bhp
1998-2002 (ram air) 320-350 bhp

how do they know it's good for 20hp? can't dyno it right ?

now if they said it was good for time off a quarter mile or something...

I think the major difference in that design was less restrictive air flow - ie no angles or bends not ram air.

[NotSoFresh]

how do they know it's good for 20hp? can't dyno it right ?

now if they said it was good for time off a quarter mile or something...

I think the major difference in that design was less restrictive air flow - ie no angles or bends not ram air.
the ram air edition probably had a better tune too.

[WindowsBreakerG4]

:shrugs:

That's what the transam people say is 20 hp. Go argue with them, you asked which cars since had ram air, I answered.

[Hagar17]

no that is cool - of course marketing and car makers are gonna tell you more hp for this and that

I read they optimized the intake to make it flow better but I don't think it is ram air really. (maybe at 150 mp/h?)

[mickeys240]

I heard that the stock intake tract is more restrictive then the one that was used on the ram air. 20 HP is VERY possible. But again that would only be at the sea level and other positive variables.

I also think that the stock filter area has also been increased thus again decreasing resistance to flow.

IMO the Air box designs are now made to decrease noise air turbulence providing less obtrusive intake noise. (Hence the extra "dead" area inside of a air box.) Just like in Box designs for acoustic applications, The engineer can tune the air flow and intake and the noise or lack there of to produce a more refined characteristic's that may be the car manufactures and certain focus group requirements. Sadly, Maximum Horsepower production is not the prime priority of many stock intakes.

But Hey, Ain't nothin wrong with tweaking! VIVA La TWEEK!

[Børk,børk,børk!]

Wow...:omg:

Reading this thread has proved at least one thing to me...



That I'm going to have a f#%^@*g blast on this forum :drama:

[sbabbs]

Stay on topic, stay on topic...
http://i513.photobucket.com/albums/t334/simonbabbs/3inchmm11.jpg

http://i513.photobucket.com/albums/t334/simonbabbs/3inchmm12.jpg

http://i513.photobucket.com/albums/t334/simonbabbs/3inchmm13.jpg

http://i513.photobucket.com/albums/t334/simonbabbs/3inchmm14.jpg

[300+K 740GLE]

Wow...:omg:

Reading this thread has proved at least one thing to me...



That I'm going to have a f#%^@*g blast on this forum :drama:

Welcome to the insanity:)

[slimlavud]

The laws of physics will tell you that to have any 'ram' effect, the incoming air must be moving at a greater speed than the normal intake speed of the air drawn in by the pump - in this case the induction vacuum of an i/c engine. Given the usual calculations, this would mean that nothing can be gained below approximately 150 miles per hour of forward motion.
As to 'ram air' Us V8 'musclecars' of the 1960s, the ram air had no effect except to draw air from a cooler area. The most effective air intake used on stock cars in the 1960s and 1970s (and used by me for my 1967 Mustang and 1963 Fairlane V8 race cars) was at the rear of the hood, just ahead of the base of the windshield, a very low pressure area with generally fairly cool air.

[tjts1]

The laws of physics will tell you that to have any 'ram' effect, the incoming air must be moving at a greater speed than the normal intake speed of the air drawn in by the pump - in this case the induction vacuum of an i/c engine. Given the usual calculations, this would mean that nothing can be gained below approximately 150 miles per hour of forward motion.
As to 'ram air' Us V8 'musclecars' of the 1960s, the ram air had no effect except to draw air from a cooler area. The most effective air intake used on stock cars in the 1960s and 1970s (and used by me for my 1967 Mustang and 1963 Fairlane V8 race cars) was at the rear of the hood, just ahead of the base of the windshield, a very low pressure area with generally fairly cool air.
Read, learn, profit
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_1023/article.html
http://autospeed.com/A_110360/cms/article.html
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_110824/article.html

[slimlavud]

What a great way to get your engine to swallow up all the **** on the the road! Should help to keep your highways clean!
Of course the $500million that an average car costs to develop must be wasted as somebody with some old drainpipe fittings and used vacuum cleaner hose can improve it - yeah right...
Read, learn, profit
more like
Don't, chat, ****

[sbabbs]

Mines a cold air intake makes my car do 12.75 in the quarter mile. What's yours do?

Simon

[Freq]

What a great way to get your engine to swallow up all the **** on the the road! Should help to keep your highways clean!
Of course the $500million that an average car costs to develop must be wasted as somebody with some old drainpipe fittings and used vacuum cleaner hose can improve it - yeah right...
Read, learn, profit
more like
Don't, chat, ****

Don't troll. There are filters in place to stop debris from entering the engine. There will be at least an air filter, but most people that do this kind of design also put a metal mesh screen in where they make the hole to keep out rocks and twigs and the like.

Second, the turbo isn't going to be sucking things up like a vacuum unless you were under heavy boost with the intake sitting an inch off the ground.

My 850Turbo's air intake is very similar to the one mentioned here, except that it sucks in air from the grill, not the air dam. And in case you're wondering, this is a stock intake system. Please do some research and use logic and reasoning before making any more posts on this forum.

[smokeyfan1000]

You can have cold air intake with air filter.:nod: Mine is a 240 but this is what I came up with, using all OEM Volvo 240 & one 140 part/s. I prefer to THINK, read ,learn, profit.:lol::nod: I took the "flapper thermostat thinky out, sealed holes left with silicone, used the heat riser hose as additional air intake. Both go to OEM airbox & air is filtered.

http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq238/smokeyfan1000/100_2520.jpg

http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq238/smokeyfan1000/100_2519-1.jpg

[IceV_760]

Im on same lines with slimlavud.
Noone of you heard before about that approximate speed limit when Real ram-air starts to work?
"Read, learn & profit", dont want to sounds harsh but those autospeed DIY Tech Feature
articles really are biggest shaite ive ever seen before, makes me just laugh and cry for poor people reading them.
They use their cool meters but forget at when you displace your "ram-air" intake its sucking that air from there,
therefore causing negative pressure, and eliminating that way their cool calculations.
So, i stand in side with slimlavud and his/her comments.
"Dont, chat, ****", and, oh freg, dont troll please.

Little edit: Cold air intake for real is useful im not against that, just about that
miserable "ram-air" hype.

[smokeyfan1000]

I believe more members here are benefiting more from the COOLER air effect, more so than RAM air effect. Cooler air inducted to intake is always a help no matter what the speed. For the most part. So you are probably right as far as street operation at legal speeds. In my (240) case, I benefitted by increasing my overall air intake area by 2, the way I did mine. It made a difference, by just increasing air intake VOLUME.

[smokeyfan1000]

BTW IceV_760, For a naturally aspirated 1991 B230F (9.8 CR)with an "M" cam with engine in pretty good ring and valve sealing properties at 175,00 milage, what IS the speed (in mph) of the air being sucked thru the intake tract/ducting at engine speed of 5800 rpm, while car is sitting still?
Is it constant from tract behind the grille all the way to the intake manifold?
How much does the air box/air filter obstruct this flow?
How many mph does the car have to travel in order to achieve a true "ram air " effect ,above the vacuum created by the engine, if the intake tracts were actually facing the "oncoming air" via a 4" to 1 7/8 reduction to the air box?
And what is the formulas/equations needed to calculate these??
Not being a SA, just hoping you know.:nod:
I've always wanted to know this, but have not found anything to properly educate myself on the subject .:roll:

[IceV_760]

Have to say at i dont know formulaes to calculate those.
Amount of air used is easy to calculate, but no idea how to calculate air mass speed on intake pipe,
nor how much vacuum will it cause on mouth of, lets say 3" inch diameter pipe.
Just technical articles ive read. You should ask from someone doing headworks, think they would know.

But back to to the point.
Keywords are: Air Temperature, sufficient air intake Volume as smokey above stated, and intake pipings Flow-Restriction.
All those over ram-air hype.

[smokeyfan1000]

Guess I'll have to search harder then. I always wondered how OEM know/figure intake tract sizes for engines. Must be a calculation, huh? You know like if a vacuum cleaner hose gets too large a diam., you lose the "suction" properties. I figure same applies here? So must be an ideal intake tract size, for certain C.I. engine/s.

[mickeys240]

Be sure to make your "Ram-Air" or Cold Air Intake pipes at the Min. 2.5" And 3" if you have any turns or bends in the system.

With how small some intake valves are, It's no wonder why forced indcution is so benificial.

On that side note about airboxes. They are made to be acoustically performace based on most cars. With Air flow meeting the critera of the filter manufacrrer and its rated CFM. If the CFM of a filter fits the engine requirtments, then a box is made to adhere with prinicpal #1 then Pricipal #2.

To prove my thoery, Please look at any luxo car air box. After that take a look at somthign like a neon air box (second gen) that cost was the only factor. in consideration and you can see that a vacume based filter from a rigid SERIES SHOP VAC Will fit pretty well.

If there is money to be spent on R & D then you get a better air box. But for the most part, It's all about getting it done. With Calculations about Air velocity and Optimum intake air tract restrictions being only headed when they are nessacasry to perfom a specifgic engenring goal.

(Sorry wrote this in IE8, SO no spell check, Will correct latter when I get he time..)

[DustyLBottoms]

Guess I'll have to search harder then. I always wondered how OEM know/figure intake tract sizes for engines. Must be a calculation, huh? You know like if a vacuum cleaner hose gets too large a diam., you lose the "suction" properties. I figure same applies here? So must be an ideal intake tract size, for certain C.I. engine/s.


Ask and it shall be granted. To quote someone else on the thread "Read, learn, profit"

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0837601401/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=083760138X&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0XZSGSBKV1VF0NY41ZY3

[smokeyfan1000]

Thanks DustyLBottoms. I'll try to get the intake & exh. book soon. Hopefully will answer my questions. I read quite a bit automotively speaking, just had not come across the right book.

[DustyLBottoms]

Thanks DustyLBottoms. I'll try to get the intake & exh. book soon. Hopefully will answer my questions. I read quite a bit automotively speaking, just had not come across the right book.

Sure thing! This book gets into the equations for gas pulse wave vs. Intake & exhaust lengths. Very cool in my opinion.