newbie with (an) 850 turbo wagon

[unicorn787]

I just got an 850 turbo wagon. it's got a lot of pep already, but I want more!
I still don't know much about volvos except their reputation, so can anyone recomend a good starting point for a newbie who wants his wagon to scream? what are some common mods?
thanks a lot,
phil

[frpe82]

Chip and exhaust.

Extremely good value for money.

[855turbowagon]

+1 to fred, Get some of his chips, He has many happy customers. Can also pick up an mbc for about £30 boost the power up quite nicely. Cheap mod :)

[frpe82]

+1 to fred, Get some of his chips, He has many happy customers. Can also pick up an mbc for about £30 boost the power up quite nicely. Cheap mod :)
You don't need the MBC if you get the chip.

[unicorn787]

+1 to fred, Get some of his chips, He has many happy customers. Can also pick up an mbc for about £30 boost the power up quite nicely. Cheap mod :)

who's fred and why don't I know him yet?

[SlowRide]

Fred was the first to comment on your post :-D

[unicorn787]

Chip and exhaust.

Extremely good value for money.

what would you recomend for the exhaust? is it worth replacing the intake?

[initialD]

3" donw pipe and full exaust, and fred chip and it´s another car.

i have both ( and a bite more) and i´m happy

[frpe82]

what would you recomend for the exhaust? is it worth replacing the intake?
No need to do anything about the intake really.

However... if you are getting the chip, the air flow will increase a lot. And if you have the "accordion-hose" on the intake and the stock air box you can gain quite a lot by replacing that with a smooth hose/pipe + a cone filter with heat shield. If you don't have the accordion hose, then you don't have to bother with modifying the intake.

A nice 2.5-2.75" exhaust with one muffler or a 3" exhaust with two mufflers is preferred.

It also depends on which turbo you have. Boost creep is extremely common on the 5-cylinder engines with the smaller turbos.

[Karl Buchka]

You dont need a MBC period......

You're just full of helpful little nuggets today aren't you.

[DooDoobrown]

If you get an mbc the highest you can set your boost is 15psi with factory computer tune. Chiptune>MBC mbc spikes to your set boost level then fades off. Your factory computer has fuel maps up to 15psi. Anything after that you will hit fuel or boost cut. If you want a good setup done right get any aftermarket chip, 3"downpipe custom exhaust preferably 3" and then start on your suspension modds to get it at a more aggressive stance. My friend had a speedtuning chip he bought for $300 worked nicely. Im not sure about freds chips but they seem to have a good reputation so I bet they are pretty nice.
-Will

[Charlie G]

You're just full of helpful little nuggets today aren't you.

I have a 98 t5 stick. Mods............shortened the waste gate act. all the way. how much boost? I dont know!!!! I dont have a boost guage, more than stock. The car doesent ping, it was free and it will pull on STIs. Not that I really care. Everybody wants MBCs and cone filters and 3in exhausts and thats fine in all but in true Grassroots fashion, ie cheep all you need is to start with a good "stage 0" and wick up the boost. PS the car has been running this way for 65,000 miles with no problems

[unicorn787]

No need to do anything about the intake really.

However... if you are getting the chip, the air flow will increase a lot. And if you have the "accordion-hose" on the intake and the stock air box you can gain quite a lot by replacing that with a smooth hose/pipe + a cone filter with heat shield. If you don't have the accordion hose, then you don't have to bother with modifying the intake.

A nice 2.5-2.75" exhaust with one muffler or a 3" exhaust with two mufflers is preferred.

It also depends on which turbo you have. Boost creep is extremely common on the 5-cylinder engines with the smaller turbos.

I get 'betty' back from her safety tomorrow. I'll post to let you know what turbo its using. as far as the exhaust goes, I looked all over kijiji, craigslist, and ebay and I couldn't find any exhausts for 93-95 turbo wagons. any good sites for volvo parts?

If you get an mbc the highest you can set your boost is 15psi with factory computer tune. Chiptune>MBC mbc spikes to your set boost level then fades off. Your factory computer has fuel maps up to 15psi. Anything after that you will hit fuel or boost cut. If you want a good setup done right get any aftermarket chip, 3"downpipe custom exhaust preferably 3" and then start on your suspension modds to get it at a more aggressive stance. My friend had a speedtuning chip he bought for $300 worked nicely. Im not sure about freds chips but they seem to have a good reputation so I bet they are pretty nice.
-Will

I've read that 850 turbo wagons are european police interceptors. any ideas on where to buy the suspension they're using? is it IPD?

[Tick]

I have a 98 t5 stick. Mods............shortened the waste gate act. all the way. how much boost? I dont know!!!! I dont have a boost guage, more than stock. The car doesent ping, it was free and it will pull on STIs. Not that I really care. Everybody wants MBCs and cone filters and 3in exhausts and thats fine in all but in true Grassroots fashion, ie cheep all you need is to start with a good "stage 0" and wick up the boost. PS the car has been running this way for 65,000 miles with no problems

:doh:

[Karl Buchka]

I have a 98 t5 stick. Mods............shortened the waste gate act. all the way. how much boost? I dont know!!!! I dont have a boost guage, more than stock. The car doesent ping, it was free and it will pull on STIs. Not that I really care. Everybody wants MBCs and cone filters and 3in exhausts and thats fine in all but in true Grassroots fashion, ie cheep all you need is to start with a good "stage 0" and wick up the boost. PS the car has been running this way for 65,000 miles with no problems

That doesn't make the **** you say any more correct. No boost gauge is stupid, stock exhaust is stupid, shortening the actuator rod is really stupid, and claiming it doesn't ping because you can't hear it is incredibly stupid.

[boostin'xr4]

That doesn't make the **** you say any more correct. No boost gauge is stupid, stock exhaust is stupid, shortening the actuator rod is really stupid, and claiming it doesn't ping because you can't hear it is incredibly stupid.

And what do you get when you add that all up?
Stupid...and you should give me your car. I won't kill it.

[Ktown_Brick]

I get 'betty' back from her safety tomorrow. I'll post to let you know what turbo its using. as far as the exhaust goes, I looked all over kijiji, craigslist, and ebay and I couldn't find any exhausts for 93-95 turbo wagons. any good sites for volvo parts?



I've read that 850 turbo wagons are european police interceptors. any ideas on where to buy the suspension they're using? is it IPD?

Phil, check OBX on ebay for your exhaust. $400 for full exhaust. As for your flange type, it's concial.

Suspension, check IDP, or http://www.eurosporttuning.ca/, their local. Stage zero is where it's at for you, then worry about mods, trust me, your car need's stage zero, ask me how I know?



Mike

[unicorn787]

Phil, check OBX on ebay for your exhaust. $400 for full exhaust. As for your flange type, it's concial.

Suspension, check IDP, or http://www.eurosporttuning.ca/, their local. Stage zero is where it's at for you, then worry about mods, trust me, your car need's stage zero, ask me how I know?



Mike

how do YOU know? what does stage zero mean?

[fattmatt805]

replacing any and all wear items on the car. oil change plugs wires posibly dizzy. suspension bushings, gaskets, water pump, oil pump, timing belt...the works.

[Ktown_Brick]

how do YOU know? what does stage zero mean?

Trust me, I know. Just read this, http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=10961 It is esentially the replacment of worn parts. You will def need vaccum lines before you try to up your boost, new plugs, fuel filter, oil change, check all your gaskets/rear main seal, blah blah blah. You should of come over today, I did my vac lines, your gonna love the "red" one.:rofl:



Mike

[Mueller]

how do YOU know? what does stage zero mean?


clearly by you not knowing what stage 0 is, you need to do it :)

full tune up, new plugs, cap or whatever is required to ensure that the car is in perfect running order before you start trying to modifiy it....you always do stage 0 1st....

[shellshock]

clearly by you not knowing what stage 0 is, you need to do it :)

full tune up, new plugs, cap or whatever is required to ensure that the car is in perfect running order before you start trying to modifiy it....you always do stage 0 1st....


+1. Car needs to be in top shape before you start putting mods on it and driving it hard.

TIMING BELT!!!! Check into this first! If this is overdue, you're running the risk of it, or one of the timing belt components such as the tentioner failing and bending all the valves in your head.


Good luck! They're a hell of alot of fun....once you get over the whole FWD aspect of it, haha

[justjim]

my 95 850 wagon has a mbc, k&n drop in filter, and i cut off the muffler and put in a straight through type resonator. it runs low 14's

[unicorn787]

+1. Car needs to be in top shape before you start putting mods on it and driving it hard.

TIMING BELT!!!! Check into this first! If this is overdue, you're running the risk of it, or one of the timing belt components such as the tentioner failing and bending all the valves in your head.


Good luck! They're a hell of alot of fun....once you get over the whole FWD aspect of it, haha

yeah the timing belt definitely needs to be replaced. are these pricey?

[t5 pete]

I have a t5 the best things to do to start off is a better filter then get a rica or fred?? chip with the rica it alters all charistics timing fueling boost and all at safe levels the boost will go up to 15-16psi from the stock 9.5psi also the 15g turbos are meant to run out of steam anything more than 16psi a 3" down pipe with race cat and 3" exhaust with two back boxes will help alto and sound 100% better for handleing fit a strut brace genuine volvo then i have koni fsd's with 35mm lowering springs you can also polybush the upper engine stableising bar they give a brilliant noise with extra power i would fit bigger brakes cheepest option is the 302mm brake upgrade of a v70 any more questions ask away

[pro_star]

Unicorn - timing belt is something you DO NOT want to screw around with.

FCP Groton has a kit that has the timing belt, water pump, and serp. belt for around $300, but your best bet is go up to Ottawa, and get the actual Volvo part from a dealership. (I'm due in another two months...but I've been too scared to ask the cost there...lol)

Cause seriously, if the timing belt breaks, you = :censored:


If you're too lazy to do it yourself or just don't have the time, it costs about $500 at a dealership, and seeing that you're from ktown (I'll assume Kingston) if you take the trip up to ottawa, AVOID CARLING MOTORS LIKE THE FRIGGIN PLAGUE!

In all honesty though, spark plugs, distributor cap&rotor, spark plug wires (I've heard good things about bougicord...they're on my list of to do), flush your fluids, tranny, brake, coolant, etc etc.

Run some seafoam through too. Chinese water torture ftw ;)

[linuxman51]

Unicorn - timing belt is something you DO NOT want to screw around with.

FCP Groton has a kit that has the timing belt, water pump, and serp. belt for around $300, but your best bet is go up to Ottawa, and get the actual Volvo part from a dealership. (I'm due in another two months...but I've been too scared to ask the cost there...lol)

Cause seriously, if the timing belt breaks, you = :censored:


If you're too lazy to do it yourself or just don't have the time, it costs about $500 at a dealership, and seeing that you're from ktown (I'll assume Kingston) if you take the trip up to ottawa, AVOID CARLING MOTORS LIKE THE FRIGGIN PLAGUE!

In all honesty though, spark plugs, distributor cap&rotor, spark plug wires (I've heard good things about bougicord...they're on my list of to do), flush your fluids, tranny, brake, coolant, etc etc.

Run some seafoam through too. Chinese water torture ftw ;)

I didn't know they let you post outside of OT

[pro_star]

I didn't know they let you post outside of OT

I venture out from time to time ;) C'mon though, this poor lad's in the same boat I'm in...lookin for stage 0 in a wwd whiteblock ;)

[justjim]

seafoam is safe for our cars? i love the stuff. where do you reccomend putting it in ? (95 850 turbo)

[pro_star]

Well my s70 Has yet to implode from the sea foam do it the same you would a red block but anyone who can throw misfire codes - expect it lol think i got nine faults all said and done Posted via Mobile Device

[unicorn787]

Unicorn - timing belt is something you DO NOT want to screw around with.

FCP Groton has a kit that has the timing belt, water pump, and serp. belt for around $300, but your best bet is go up to Ottawa, and get the actual Volvo part from a dealership. (I'm due in another two months...but I've been too scared to ask the cost there...lol)

Cause seriously, if the timing belt breaks, you = :censored:


If you're too lazy to do it yourself or just don't have the time, it costs about $500 at a dealership, and seeing that you're from ktown (I'll assume Kingston) if you take the trip up to ottawa, AVOID CARLING MOTORS LIKE THE FRIGGIN PLAGUE!

In all honesty though, spark plugs, distributor cap&rotor, spark plug wires (I've heard good things about bougicord...they're on my list of to do), flush your fluids, tranny, brake, coolant, etc etc.

Run some seafoam through too. Chinese water torture ftw ;)


yeah I'm flushing the rad tonight, and changing the oil/tranny/brake this weekend. that actually works out brilliantly because I'm going to ottawa on monday. so I can buy the kit from the dealership there for $300? deals!

I'm not too lazy to change it myself, I'm too cheap to let someone else do it for me! :D I'll make sure to avoid carling motors, but why?

and what the hell is seafoam?

[pro_star]

No you can not buy the kit from the dealership for $300 its from fcp groton. But that is not a Volvo timing belt its after market. fcpgroton.com can save ya some money but remember it is american so you get conversion. I may just be calling my dear friends at the dealership later and i will let you know what they tell me but heads up some dealers are worse with the mark up than others Posted via Mobile Device

[unicorn787]

that would be great, I really appreciate it.

[ErikS]

www.volvospeed.com my friend, if you have not ventured over there yet.

[pro_star]

pssht!!!!! i find you brickers to be more helpful than vs!!!!

..but that's just me. And I am a bitter angry monkey.

and wow. that was less painful than I thought. Timing belt is $84, but if you have a manual tensioner, you need a new tensioner pully and that bad boy is $125.

[ErikS]

It's just more dedicated to 850's, that's all.

For example;

Stage Zero


Plugs
cap/rotor
oil/transflush
filter (oil)
hoses (the little vac lines)
samco hose kit
02 sensors
fuel pumps
clean injectors
clean IC/IC plumbing
Air filter
plug wires

Sound good but to expensive..

Don't forget that a lot of people are on a budget. A lot of money has gone in to the car itself and Mr. Powerupgrade is knocking on the door.

If to choose from a ECU upgrade or a Stage 0 the conclusion is obvious..
Then after the ECU upgrade there is what we could call a Stage 1.1 which means double posts on all the known forums why the boost doesn't work, why the car is hesitating, why the rods go S( ), etc, etc..

I think the best advice for a stage 0 is to start with a good optical inspection, this doesn't cost you a penny. While checking parts specially near hoses make sure to clean the surroundings from residues. This will also give faster indication of leaks at a later point. You know is wasn't smudgy and greasy the last time you checked..

Clean the airfilter. You can see for yourself if dust and rubbish is in there.
For the oil and filter, new is better of course but seldom a cause for problems. Just make a fixed shedule for this either mileage based or time based. When starting with tuning a fresh starting point is the way to go. After that keep it in a fresh state.

For the boost part check the STOCK hoses for small cracks near the clamps and for oil softening because at these spots the hoses often show small leaks and mostly near the clamp screw.*
Check the rubber T connection for the idle valve at the hose connected to the TB. A known spot for cracks. Just squeeze the hose and cracks will show.*
At this point there really is no need for Samco stuff but when replacing think Samco, stock hoses can do 1.4 bar easy. (trust me). There's no Samco stuff available for the cold (Early) setup so you'll have to fabricate some stuff yourself. For the TB a connection can be welded to the IC pipe and a separate small diameter Samco hose can be used for the idle valve.
For vacuum, all hoses inclusing the x-mas tree at the TB and the 90 degree crank vent knee at the end of the manifold.* Follow all the vacuum lines specially where they run around the engine*,
Check the crank vent hoses at the inlet before the turbo. A very wise thing would be to check the turbine for cracks between the wastegate and the turbine wheel but this is difficult to see from the outside. Most boost problems with 15G's can be found in this area. While looking at the turbo also check the vacuum connection to the compressor housing.* Also make sure that the intake system doesn't pull false air. The turbo boost solenoid is bleeding to the intake between MAF and turbo, make sure the connection is in place. Check if all the blind plugs in the system are in place.
Check the 150/40 wastegate actuator. Check again.. This "bike pump" is known for being weak in a stock setup. Even with a boost raising chip it is better to set it a bit more tight to make sure it isn't operating as a plasma cutter. Before ordering a stronger actuator visually check the turbine for cracks, also on the inside. An actuator will cost you half a turbo.

Why the * ?, These spots are difficult to reach and sometimes difficult to see if there are cracks. Don't be lazy. Don't forget that you are working with pressure so the hoses will expand while under pressure. Check and double check to make 100% sure the parts are OK.

After that check the ignition parts. If a car isn't running smooth and all the hose stuff appears to be OK then there could be something wrong in this area. Rotor and cap are wear parts. Often cut out under load is indication that something is wrong. Cables, check age. If new plugs are installed and the engine behavior is only better for a short while then cables could be a cause. Cables and distributer are overlapping each other in symptoms so sometimes it can be hard to tell where the problem really is. Often cables will function properly for a while after they have been reseated so try to work from one point to the other to rule out the parts one by one. for high mileage cars think about replacing the complete setup ANYWAY.

The plugs.. Huge discussions lots of brands and everybody knows what is best.
A tuned turbo Volvo will run 100% OK on stock Volvo branded plugs for turbo cars. Having a set of fresh Volvo plugs available isn't a bad thing. It will give you a nice "baseline" for comparison and troubleshooting. If all turns out to be OK the more exotic types can be used.

So far no money has been spend. Other things like compression testing will cost a few bucks unless you have connections handy.

Fuel filter, fluids and fluid levels etc. are tune up parts. Keep a shedule and check history of your car. Fuel pump. good enough for 350+ HP if the voltage stays within limits. With high mileage cars think agout replacing.

Try to image the state of your car. Even if you do not want to spend the money on repairs for whatever reason always make sure that the problem is known. One problem might be the cause for other problems. With tuning the weakest links are the first to give.
When the image is clear try to make a shedule of all parts. This way you can spread the costs preventing it to shoot at you all at once. Stick to the shedule no matter what!

In the process of adding parts these weakest links might brake you up.

For the lambda sensors, if the car is running bad due to age or bad maintenance new sensors will go bad in no time. A sort of chicken-egg situation here. Often sensors will burn clean after a short while when the engine is running fresh again unless the car has been running bad for a very long time.

For ECU tuning, Either it works or it doesn't. As a rule of thumb I would say that you can rule out the ECU in 99% of the cases when using maintream tuning. The tuning only causes the weakest links to fail.

MBC's? ...... rod killers and trouble makers IMO.

After tuning and changes always try to check the fuel settings.

ok, one thing to add to the stage 0 things is a new o2 sensor. i just changed my original one (front), and my car runs so much better. i can feel more power, but the biggest thing is that my acceleration characteristics are greatly improved. my accelleration had felt strong, but inconsistent through the powerband. that has drastically improved, along with the added power.

the most important thing about these high mileage cars: stage 0!!!!

EricF's Pinned thread on Modifying FWD turbo's (which I belive did start here)

http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/index.php?showtopic=86240

[volvoluvin]

+1bagillion to this above post.

I bought a 95 T5-R in really good shape a year ago. I've spent the last year completing the stage 0, and with each step built confidence that the car was in good shape either through replacement or inspection. And now, and only now am I ready to start the HP gain's...These are fantastic cars with bags of potential, but you MUST be building on a solid foundation or your just pissing $$ down the drain for short term gain...

Good luck
-Phil

[pro_star]

I still haven't found out the joy of the sameco hose kits. Why are they sooo much more awesome and are necessary for stage 0? I mean really, that's (ic and rad hoses) almost $400 right there. Those are the most expensive bit of the stage zero.

[ErikS]

I still haven't found out the joy of the sameco hose kits. Why are they sooo much more awesome and are necessary for stage 0? I mean really, that's (ic and rad hoses) almost $400 right there. Those are the most expensive bit of the stage zero.

$180 is all I paid for mine, its just piece of mind. Not that much more then paying for new oem rubber ones. My whp goals require them, so why not?

[pro_star]

$180 is all I paid for mine, its just piece of mind. Not that much more then paying for new oem rubber ones. My whp goals require them, so why not?

IPD does nasty markups then? Where did you get yours?

[Ktown_Brick]

Prostar, the belt in the fcp kit is the same as the volvo one, they are both made by connential. If you went to the stealership, expect to pay twice as much. I have no complaints about fcp's kit. It's not that difficult to change the two belt's and associated componets. About half a day taking your time on the first attempt. The biggest nut buster I found was releasing the serp belt tensioner.

As for Phil, he just needs to drag his arse over to my place. He has quite the big list of things to do. I've asked him to come over when I'm doing my belt, thats the best way to learn. Phil, you also need to learn to stay away from curbs, you don't have to wreck any more tires:rofl:. There's also a Volvo dealership thats ten minutes away from Phil, he just needs to venture there to build a relationship with John. If he likes you, you get twenty-percent off everything. Not too shabby, and John knows his wwd parts.



Mike

[volvoluvin]

Prostar, the belt in the fcp kit is the same as the volvo one, they are both made by connential. If you went to the stealership, expect to pay twice as much. I have no complaints about fcp's kit. It's not that difficult to change the two belt's and associated componets. About half a day taking your time on the first attempt. The biggest nut buster I found was releasing the serp belt tensioner.

As for Phil, he just needs to drag his arse over to my place. He has quite the big list of things to do. I've asked him to come over when I'm doing my belt, thats the best way to learn. Phil, you also need to learn to stay away from curbs, you don't have to wreck any more tires:rofl:. There's also a Volvo dealership thats ten minutes away from Phil, he just needs to venture there to build a relationship with John. If he likes you, you get twenty-percent off everything. Not too shabby, and John knows his wwd parts.



Mike

ok, that just got confusing...volvoluvin=Phil is this the Phil you are talking about?

[ErikS]

Where did you get yours?

The 5 IC hoses from a Vendor on VS.

[unicorn787]

ok, that just got confusing...volvoluvin=Phil is this the Phil you are talking about?

unicorn787 = phil

nice to meet you phil

[Ktown_Brick]

Unicorn, you have much work to do to keep up. What were you boosting on the way home? At least your coolant isn't milky for now, young cum stain. When you can beat me, and not drive like Volvo was intended for, we will have a reckoning. We must do, boost lines for your pos tommorow.


Mike

[unicorn787]

Unicorn, you have much work to do to keep up. What were you boosting on the way home? At least your coolant isn't milky for now, young cum stain. When you can beat me, and not drive like Volvo was intended for, we will have a reckoning. We must do, boost lines for your pos tommorow.


Mike

come to the shop and we shall swap thoze hozez. I was holding 5 pounds, I don't know what it spiked at tho it was too dark to read my pos gauge lol. I didn't mop the floor with you yesterday because of the "traffic/snow:tread on my tires" ratio. you're pretty eager to get torched by the red beast

[unicorn787]

we got mod-owned

[850ti]

pssht!!!!! i find you brickers to be more helpful than vs!!!!

.

it's not just you

[Ktown_Brick]

come to the shop and we shall swap thoze hozez. I was holding 5 pounds, I don't know what it spiked at tho it was too dark to read my pos gauge lol. I didn't mop the floor with you yesterday because of the "traffic/snow:tread on my tires" ratio. you're pretty eager to get torched by the red beast

Your red beast needs more work. We'll get your lower vac line when its not snowing. How do you like the resonance inside the cabin without the muffler? Your's isn't nearly as bad as mine was, you'll probibly find you will want a muff after a couple of weeks.

As for your tire to tread ratio, I might add a certin toyota highlander and a green 850 say that the green 850 is majorly lacking in the tire to tread ratio department. Yours might be louder tonight, but as your performance showed, your bark lacks a certin bite.:rofl: You still have to make us downpipes, two bungs, get on that sheit.



Mike

[lookforjoe]

I have a 98 t5 stick. Mods............shortened the waste gate act. all the way. how much boost? I dont know!!!! I dont have a boost guage, more than stock. The car doesent ping, it was free and it will pull on STIs. Not that I really care. Everybody wants MBCs and cone filters and 3in exhausts and thats fine in all but in true Grassroots fashion, ie cheep all you need is to start with a good "stage 0" and wick up the boost. PS the car has been running this way for 65,000 miles with no problems

Shortening the actuator all the way doesn't increase boost if you're still using the factory turbo control valve. The system can tell that the actuator is out of range and will reduce total boost. The only gain you may see is earlier boost onset.

[lookforjoe]

IPD does nasty markups then? Where did you get yours?

google Stylin' Motors. Their hoses are great, and were on sale last time I looked. I used them on my XC before I went FMIC. Stock hoses over 100K are usually weak.

[unicorn787]

Your red beast needs more work. We'll get your lower vac line when its not snowing. How do you like the resonance inside the cabin without the muffler? Your's isn't nearly as bad as mine was, you'll probibly find you will want a muff after a couple of weeks.

As for your tire to tread ratio, I might add a certin toyota highlander and a green 850 say that the green 850 is majorly lacking in the tire to tread ratio department. Yours might be louder tonight, but as your performance showed, your bark lacks a certin bite.:rofl: You still have to make us downpipes, two bungs, get on that sheit.



Mike

I had two spare tires and neris in the car. we'll replace the vac line and change the oil, and I will empty all the CRAP out of it, then we will have another grudge match. my poor old rad, smoked like streekstra when I parked it last night

[Ktown_Brick]

I had two spare tires and neris in the car. we'll replace the vac line and change the oil, and I will empty all the CRAP out of it, then we will have another grudge match. my poor old rad, smoked like streekstra when I parked it last night

That must of been hella smokey then, was it alright in the morning? Keep your eye on the coolant man. I also had two spares, and a shat ton of tools from earlier that day when we molested your car. Neris only weighs all of ten pounds, and was going to the Dominican, he doesn't count.

I was pulling on you like a young man who just found out how to masturbate. We gotta go bright and early to the vaJ-Yay tommorow.



Mike