Back from the ole' dyno [Archive]

Captain Bondo

05-06-2009, 10:15 PM

Well it was a coimedy of errors, but the car and I are back from the dyno in one piece.

I have nothing useful to post- Phil took some video but i think i lost my camera or left it at the dyno. :(

I can't take a decent pic of the sheet- mustang dynos print so faintly.

I'll scan it at work.

So anyways it makes exacty what I thought- first pull at 12psi was 245whp. I steady state mapped the AFRS and it went to 267whp.

Then all hell broke loose, missing, bucking, blah blah blah. Turns out 3.0ms of dwell is a no go on the vb921's + 960 coils, at least for me. 3.5 was better, 4.0 cleaned it up. :e-shrug:

Next issue was some manner of crazy sorta whooshing/static noise that neither I nor anyone ther could confirm/deny was ping.

Pull all the plugs, looks good. put it back together. Crank 'er up, pings a bit- ok good so ping can be eaily heard over the other odd noise. (I was listening on my det cans and a tech was listening on a chassis ear).

18psi it all went to crap. Some manner of fuel pressure problem - I suspect walbro as it sounds wonky now, although it could be the pressure reg although it's brand new.

So anyways I ended up at 286whp and 273ft/lb - afrs were going into the 13's and I didn't feel like troubleshooting it there. :(

Their dyno read 25% off crank they say (a new sti dyno'd before me at 211hp)

So crankwise I am maybe 350-370 crank.

Power is way low becuase I am not getting full spool until 5000rpm!!!!!!!!
It's way off cam by then an never makes any torque.

The rest of the motor is desperately trying to make midrange, but it ain't got no boost where the ve is good. :doh:

So, sort out the fuel issues and try some cam timing to try to sync things up.

If that doesn't work I'll go to a smaller hotside, no biggie.

Man it has lots of potential, it frickin pulls HARD on boost now that I have those afrs set well.

Ok that's enough story telling for now. there's more that happened but I'll post again later.

maybe cam timing will fix it, but i think the 1.00A/R housing needs to be mothballed till i have a 9000rpm redline.

Overall i am disappointed the whole setup is so mismatched but hey, you won't know till ya try. I am still ecstatic that it runs soooo well and is sooo smooth, and everything I actually built for it, worls flawlessly.

:cheers:

PS here is the datalog of the last run:

adrianpike

05-06-2009, 10:18 PM

Hey, on the plus side you're in the 300 club! :-)

Bigbegum69

05-06-2009, 10:21 PM

hip hip....... :nod:

Icanhazbewst

05-06-2009, 10:23 PM

1.00 A/R....yeah might be just a LIL too big

Tom Wiley

05-06-2009, 10:24 PM

Sweet. I am looking forward to seeing it at IPD on the 16th!

volvoluvin

05-06-2009, 10:27 PM

Kenny...I bet your camera is in your car...I put it on the passenger side dash before I left. You probably forgot and drove off with it still there...then it would have dropped to the floor...
I only have one crappy cell phone pic I took of the header during a steady state tune...the glow was purrdy...
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/buggabean/3509385030/" title="Kenny's Header on fire...nearly by buggabean, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3404/3509385030_7126586aeb_o.jpg" width="800" height="600" alt="Kenny's Header on fire...nearly" /></a>

The car sounds freakin' awesome I have to say...but I bet it's loud inside like you said...but man...what a sound...llooouuuddddddddd and ferocious.

Glad to see you manage to pull it up to the high 200's after I left...thats sweet!

spruill745

05-06-2009, 10:36 PM

Video?
Nice work man, I was guessing 280whp.

GabAlmighty

05-06-2009, 11:20 PM

Solid. Hope you had fun!

Captain Bondo

05-06-2009, 11:45 PM

Thanks guys,

I was hoping for 400 crank at least-

We did one pull where I overadjusted the boost controller and I hit boost cut at 5500rpm (21psi) and it made 320 torque there, that would have done it.

But it just runs out of fuel. As mentioned I suspect walbro, I hate that friggin pump. It screwed me before too, with its black=positive red-negative wiring.

I am thinking new 740 turbo intank pump and two turbo main fuel pumps now. :rant:

Here is the datalog from the last run:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll214/WatsonFab/misc%20car/FAIL.jpg

Also the ignition is still pretty untuned, these guys at this shop were disappointing and didn't really get what I was trying to do on the ignition side of things. :(

All in all it's just way too laggy. :rofl:

Once I fix it I will take it to the shop I originally wanted to go to, I think they're more on the same page.

7300rpm and 18psi and 13:1 afrs.

Amazing I didn't kill it guys. I am lucky.

stylngle2003

05-06-2009, 11:49 PM

that's not too bad at 12psi!

dieselboy

05-06-2009, 11:57 PM

Nice! It's all trial and error. I want to hear it.

84 Blue 240

05-07-2009, 12:09 AM

What kind of dyno? Your boost threshold numbers seem awfully high. Is the dyno not loading it very hard?

Captain Bondo

05-07-2009, 01:01 AM

Mustang with a brake for steady state tuning.

The boost threshold is actually very low- I have 4 psi by 2500rpm. It just takes forever to get it on full boil- the datalog shows it pretty clearly. It's not a threshold thing, it just plain old spool time.

I think the hot side is just too big. Maybe i can jack around with cam timing and ignition and get it down a bit, but I think it's just too big.

It's like the boost just arrives at the party way too late.

Thanks Phil, the camera was on the dash still! Thanks for coming too. That glowing manifold pic is sick. I want to get one of those with an actual camera next time I dyno.

Vid:

<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i289.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid289.photobucket.com/albums/ll214/WatsonFab/P1010918.flv">

GabAlmighty

05-07-2009, 01:13 AM

That sounds awesome!

edit: nitrous to spool sooner :-P

Group A

05-07-2009, 02:41 AM

Amazing I didn't kill it guys. I am lucky.No, yours runs. :pat:

Captain Bondo

05-07-2009, 03:26 AM

No, yours runs. :pat:

Touche. :rofl:

Now thinking back I wish I had played with cam timing, it was just late in the day and there were so many other gremlins... going to need to do some midnight freeway flogging, especially if I am going to race it before IPD - more than 500rpm worht of powerband would be handy. :rofl:

The det cans performed really well btw, running them side by side with the professional listening aid the dyno operator was using, we were kinda laughing because we'd hear all of the same stuff at the same time.

Any thoughts on the d-log? The raggy map signal seems odd.

However, everything is "jittering" like that - so I still wonder if it is tired to the fuel pressure issue.

Is there a way to jury-rig a fuel pressure datalog into MS? like through the knock input if I scaled it?

I hate just trying to watch gauges realtime....

turbo2door

05-07-2009, 04:19 AM

No, yours runs. :pat:

hawhawhaw. :-P

Morten VJ

05-07-2009, 05:17 AM

You can log almost anything.
http://www.msextra.com/manuals/MS_Extra_Datalog_Manual.htm#addgauge

what does the battery voltage show??
When it's starting to get jittery.

740Weapon

05-07-2009, 07:18 AM

good job on getting to the dyno.

while you were busy re-inventing the 240 from scratch maybe you forgot about some simple stuff like running stone-cold spark plug heat ranges and torquing the plugs to spec so the heat transfer works well?

A ghetto-engineering way to datalog fuel pressure changes would be to put a strain gauge on something thin in the fuel system (you may have to put something thin in-line in the fuel system), build your own wheatstone bridge, and output the voltage to megasquirt.

hockey930

05-07-2009, 07:32 AM

Ruben

05-07-2009, 07:39 AM

The Bosch 044 has a good reputation.

linuxman51

05-07-2009, 09:04 AM

I am still running stock pump at 350/420
I am not sure how big a fan I am of the walbro's. I know they are cheap, however my friend with a 400+whp fiero has had alot of trouble with his. When I upgrade I am thinking bosch 044(s?)

As for mismatched parts, I hear you loud and clear! ;-) hx35/40 on a stock 8 valve.

No problems out of the walbros in either my evo or the volvo :shrug: But I do hear about failure rates being somewhat high. I wonder how much of that is tied to the china copies.

Seems like you're still getting jitter on the map sensor signal, you have an expansion/pulse chamber on the map line or does it go straight into the ms from the intake manifold?

pwschuh

05-07-2009, 09:07 AM

pwschuh

05-07-2009, 09:10 AM

Seems like you're still getting jitter on the map sensor signal, you have an expansion/pulse chamber on the map line or does it go straight into the ms from the intake manifold?

Wait, this discussion sounds very familiar...

I thought the intake manifold was the expansion/pulse chamber on cars with a single TB??

linuxman51

05-07-2009, 09:14 AM

What are your dyno options Kenny? A Mustang would be my last choice.

Dyno really is a stress test and it's taken me almost a year to recover from my last session. Much of that time was waiting on other people but since you're doing your own fab, hopefully you will be on more of a closed-loop cycle than I am. I hope to be back in a few weeks.

Mustang dynos are the poop for tuning speed-density systems, tho. just make sure your stuff is up to snuff.

Wait, this discussion sounds very familiar...

I thought the intake manifold was the expansion/pulse chamber on cars with a single TB??

no, inside the intake manifold behind the throttle body there are lots of things going on, pressure waves bouncing around, individual intake events momentarily dropping pressure, etc.

This led to the creation of the somewhat infamous 'map bomb', basically a piece of pvc pipe with two caps glued on the end, and a pair of vacuum nipples next to each other. Kind of like a noise filter for the ms.

Captain Bondo

05-07-2009, 10:19 AM

while you were busy re-inventing the 240 from scratch maybe you forgot about some simple stuff like running stone-cold spark plug heat ranges and torquing the plugs to spec so the heat transfer works well?

What makes you say that?

Either way, it has BKR7's in it- 1 step colder than T6 plugs. Should be entirely fine. I had zero ignition related issues once dwell was increased, and sparkplug readings looked very good.

I don't think I'm short ~100hp due to sparkplug choice/installation procedure.
No offense.

What am i missing?

A ghetto-engineering way to datalog fuel pressure changes would be to put a strain gauge on something thin in the fuel system (you may have to put something thin in-line in the fuel system), build your own wheatstone bridge, and output the voltage to megasquirt.

No. I won't be "ghetto engineering" something I rely on for datalogging purposes. I'll probably use a 5 bar oil pressure sender like a clever individual would.

Kenny,

Ya the vac line is very small diameter, I'll stick something inline just for laughs.

I am going to try messing with cam timing now, something ain't right.
18psi on that turbo should be bat**** crazy even if it is way late.

I will scan the plot today, it's all kinds of messed up and it doesn't really correspond to my datalog.

I am really interested to figure out what's wrong.

Bosch 044's are nice but way overpriced.

They can't do anything 2 740 turbo main pump in parallel can't do,and they pretty much free. :oogle:

JohnLane

05-07-2009, 10:34 AM

Kenny hows about the pair of MB pumps on that bracket with the pulse dampner?

Cheap, proven, reliable.

Any chance that you need to advance exhaust cam timing?

Retarding ignition timing will wake up a big turbo. We need not have it within a degree of ping before it is making boost.

This thing should scare the sh!t out of you with the torque it will make.

Congrats. Love that turbocharged six cylinder sound.

Captain Bondo

05-07-2009, 11:05 AM

Kenny hows about the pair of MB pumps on that bracket with the pulse dampner?

Cheap, proven, reliable.

Absolutely! If there are a pair locally I'm going to grab them- that bmw 750 I thought had twin pumps didn't work out- I looked again and it was a twin set if little filters/accumulators that looked just like fuel pumps. I had twin in-tank pumps- not so useful.

Any chance that you need to advance exhaust cam timing?

Are you inside my head?:rofl: I literally just advanced it this morning- going to try it today.

Retarding ignition timing will wake up a big turbo. We need not have it within a degree of ping before it is making boost.

Yeah I will mess with the tune a bit- boost comes on faster and faster once it does come on, and ignition retards. Probably just a coincidence and just how the turbo is, but that was on my to-do list as well.

This thing should scare the sh!t out of you with the torque it will make.

Exactly and it doesn't really, in my other showroom thread I kinda mentioned that fact that it just didn't feel very fast. Turns out it isn't. :rofl:

I am kinda glad I have some stuff to mess with- I would have felt kinda lost if it had all just worked perfectly the first time. :nod:

Congrats. Love that turbocharged six cylinder sound.

Thanks John and thanks for the advice- definitely confirms checking some setting that were on my mind.

OK off to work, I will can the (useless) dyno sheet in.

EricF

05-07-2009, 11:16 AM

Absolutely! If there are a pair locally I'm going to grab them- that bmw 750 I thought had twin pumps didn't work out- I looked again and it was a twin set if little filters/accumulators that looked just like fuel pumps. I had twin in-tank pumps- not so useful.

Are you inside my head?:rofl: I literally just advanced it this morning- going to try it today.

Yeah I will mess with the tune a bit- boost comes on faster and faster once it does come on, and ignition retards. Probably just a coincidence and just how the turbo is, but that was on my to-do list as well.

Exactly and it doesn't really, in my other showroom thread I kinda mentioned that fact that it just didn't feel very fast. Turns out it isn't. :rofl:

I am kinda glad I have some stuff to mess with- I would have felt kinda lost if it had all just worked perfectly the first time. :nod:

Thanks John and thanks for the advice- definitely confirms checking some setting that were on my mind.

OK off to work, I will can the (useless) dyno sheet in.

Awesome Kenny!

I think this is a wonderful step. And now you know the characteristics of that sized turbo/manifold and can probably match them very accurately with cams and headwork on the next engine, for your 5000-9000 powerband :)

Let's re-size the turbo a bit to match your current hardware setup for the time being, then watch the torque become a mountain. I for one think it will be exceedingly interesting to see how the peak power number and the in-boost power curve changes with a slightly smaller turbo.

May I ask what you were winding it out to? I bet it sounded glorious over 7 if you went that far...

dieselboy

05-07-2009, 11:21 AM

dang i was going to mention cam timing but i got beat to it.

Captain Bondo

05-07-2009, 11:22 AM

Awesome Kenny!

I think this is a wonderful step. And now you know the characteristics of that sized turbo/manifold and can probably match them very accurately with cams and headwork on the next engine, for your 5000-9000 powerband :)

That's pretty much my thought- it's more-or-less R&D at this point. I'm holding out on maybe getting som cam trickery to speed up spool, but honestly I also think it's probabaly more of a 9000rpm hotside.

That's exactly why i bought this turbo though- there are 5 different hotsides that I can just buy and swap right on in an afternoon.

I am glad I covered my ass that way. I suspect I'll drop to a 0.70A/R

I for one think it will be exceedingly interesting to see how the peak power number and the in-boost power curve changes with a slightly smaller turbo.

Bigtime.

May I ask what you were winding it out to? I bet it sounded glorious over 7 if you went that far...

Hard limit is 7600, it dumps timing to 10 degrees and stats pulling spark as you can see in that datalog below. You cna see where i have it selected in the screen shot, it's a7418RPM, and it keeps going after that. :nod:

No torque up there though BTW.

EricF

05-07-2009, 11:36 AM

I'm holding out on maybe getting som cam trickery to speed up spool,

You cna see where i have it selected in the screen shot, it's a7418RPM, and it keeps going after that. :nod:

No torque up there though BTW.

Be careful, because these are two very closely related issues.... Myself and a few personal friends attempting to bring spool time down on bigger turbos (on whiteblocks) have totally killed our top end by minor advancement adjustments. I think the natural range of the turbo is 5000+ and I would time my cams to be 'coming into the cam' at that range, meaning retarding both of them. I seriously seriously doubt you have any exhaust reversion issues so I wouldn't worry so much about overlap.

I bet synch'ing the cams up with the turbo's operating range will give you that push back on boost threshold that you are looking for, and might really wake up your powerband. I think advancing them is just going to soften your powerband by choking the engine when it actually should be making power, and make your off-boost performance a little better, resulting in an even less inspiring overall feel.

The nice thing is that it is very easy to try both ways :) Are your gears adjustable in the same way as 850 gears? If not, I could probably find some 850 gears to send you.

Try it both ways and let us know, I bet the difference each way will be pretty astounding and pretty interesting :)

kildea

05-07-2009, 11:54 AM

those are some nice numbers, better than stock.

i agree that your biggest problem will be that exhaust cam, controlling it (or better yet just locking it upright) will help both your spool and your top end.
with it retarded you will notice awesome part throttle torque in the mid range but otherwise it just blows imo.
mine just falls on its face with higher boost and no vvt control, while with it even just ballparked it was a completely different engine.

honestly though if you can wait a few weeks the 960 cam mod will be complete and you can just run 960 cams in that t6 head - the neet-o thing is the simplicity of the adapter concept, it should be easy to reproduce in some reasonable quantity.

The Aspirator

05-07-2009, 11:54 AM

Awesome numbers Kenny, that's not bad at all for the first try out after a 5 year build at 12psi :cool:.

JohnLane

05-07-2009, 11:56 AM

Kenny if memory serves your turbo is sized about the same as I have in the 8.3 liter diesel in 'Tiny.'

Should be fun once you've got it up to speed.

Question though..... With how a turbo motor makes HUGE torque.... Why the desire to rev the piss out of it?

linuxman51

05-07-2009, 12:45 PM

power without huge boost.

Captain Bondo

05-07-2009, 01:04 PM

The idea at this stage was partly to see what can be done on stock rods if you "hold your mouth right" so to speak- basically what Kenny is saying. Obviously it's not working as yet though. :rofl:

Also since full boost is showing up at 5000rpm it just becomes the natural order of things.

So I started it up this morning to an absolute symphony if frightening noises. :omg: :(

Was fine when I parked it.

I heard a very scary sounding noise once a while back that came from the bellhousing- like something snuck in there through crank sensor opening or clutch fork.

Basically decided if it did it again, it was off with the trans.

So anyways I am pulling the tranny now, in hopes that is the noise and it's not bottom end. It's hard to tell- the noise if fairly random and not espectially related to engine speed, so maybe it'll be ok. :( Famous last words.

Maybe a clutch cover bolt came loose and is whizzing around in the pressure plate, creating random scary noises. That would also explain some if my general dissatifsaction with the clutch... ugh.

Happy times! I very excite! Not.

linuxman51

05-07-2009, 01:09 PM

if you changed the cam timing, change it back and see if the noise persists.

Captain Bondo

05-07-2009, 01:12 PM

if you changed the cam timing, change it back and see if the noise persists.

Yeah I did.

Also the cam was in basically the fully retarded end of the slots originally - I set it all the way to the other end, turned it by hand and verified it was cool, and then set it in the middle before I started it.

But it's not that consistent sound like valves kissing either.

it's either this clutch or a bearing.

volvoluvin

05-07-2009, 01:21 PM

VOTING FOR CLUTCH :raincloud: :drama:

linuxman51

05-07-2009, 01:24 PM

doubt its a bearing in the motor unless the clearances weren't right.

EricF

05-07-2009, 01:29 PM

I vote for clutch throwout bearing. Does it go away with clutch pedal in?

I've had a PP bolt head shear off before, maybe that's all it is :e-shrug:

Captain Bondo

05-07-2009, 01:36 PM

It's a worse noise than a throwout, but it does seem the noise changes w/ clutch activation.

Also I noticed that in neutral, it would actually try to stall when i let the clutch out, and letting the clutch out in neutral actually did stall it once unless it was coincidence.

Kuikka

05-07-2009, 01:40 PM

I lost an eye bearing from crank and it made terrible noise on neutral as it broke the bearing carrier and disk was hitting the pressure plate....

Captain Bondo

05-07-2009, 01:42 PM

I lost an eye bearing from crank and it made terrible noise on neutral as it broke the bearing carrier and disk was hitting the pressure plate....

You mean like a thrust bearing? ha that would be just excellent. :(

Kuikka

05-07-2009, 01:48 PM

No, the bearing between crank and gearbox input shaft...

J2_

05-07-2009, 01:55 PM

No, the bearing between crank and gearbox input shaft...

Pilot bearing..

I have had the same trouble, Got me some axial play on the crank just for free.. (flywheel was rubbing against the block).

Hope that isn't it though.. (doesnt sound like it).

Goodluck with troubleshooting !

Captain Bondo

05-07-2009, 03:31 PM

I don't have a pilot bearing, so that ain't it.

Here are some pics. Eenteresting. The motor may just live. :woowoo:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll214/WatsonFab/P1010920.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll214/WatsonFab/P1010922.jpg

All of the pressure plate bolts are intact.

I don't believe anything fell out... It might be inside the clutch now.

Pulling pressure plate...

badvlvo

05-07-2009, 03:48 PM

bummer that you have to pull the trans.

As for your tune, I'm with the 'advance the exhaust' people. I would also give it a lot more timing off-boost to help it rev faster.

And I am waiting to see what you find in the bellhousing. Don't go and break the car sl close to the ipd show.

BB-Q

05-07-2009, 03:49 PM

looks like a stray nut from somewhere. Fingers crossed for you that it's nothing serious.

1.00A/R? You really thought that would spool?:doh:

Captain Bondo

05-07-2009, 04:12 PM

1.00A/R? You really thought that would spool?:doh:

I didn't know you were such an expert on this application.

Why don't you tell us at what RPM each A/R option of divided t4 housing spools at on a 2.8 six cylinder so everyone can know for the future. :sarcasticclap:

Anyways I guess there will always be monday morning quarterbacks so whatever.

I can't find whatever it is. :wtf:

I guess I will clean it all up and put it back together. :roll:

Good times.... hopefully this was the issue.

Volvorules

05-07-2009, 04:19 PM

I had a pressure plate bolt come out and do the same kinda denting to the inside of my bellhousing, what a scary noise! Sucks to have to pull the trans for something so small, but at least you know where the noise was coming from. Eventually the bolt got shot out of the clutch fork hole on mine :)

Captain Bondo

05-07-2009, 04:40 PM

Well I dunno where the foreign object is... it took some wrestling to get the trans out to begin with, so it might have fallen out and I didn't notice/kicked it away while dry humping the tranny.

Anyways it all looks ok so i guess I'll clean it up and bang it back together. :e-shrug:

Hopefully that was the issue.

****ty thing to surface while you are messing with cam timing that's for sure. Like i need higher blood pressure these days.... lol

EricF

05-07-2009, 04:58 PM

Weird stuff. Input shaft feel tight? If you've pulled a hydraulic line in dropping the trans, take this opportunity to get those lines bled extra-well :)

dieselboy

05-07-2009, 06:36 PM

check your starter. I had the bushing come out of mine and sling around a few times right after i started it once

JohnLane

05-07-2009, 09:09 PM

What fun for you Kenny!

I 'get' to pull the T-5 back out of the Orange kar again. Came in with a clutch that did not want to release.

I had it apart and played the usual game of pattycakes with it, reassembled and now...

It will NOT release. At all. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr........

Pulling the box again.

Curses to those who made the 5.0 shifter BS.

Captain Bondo

05-08-2009, 01:01 AM

Misery loves company John! :cheers:

Ok so it's all back together and running. Seems i have fixed it.

Well, it's back to it's regular underacheiving self anyways.

I added about 3 degrees of exhaust cam advance. Just see how it goes.

I haven't enough fuel to even be able to fix the problems anyways for now.

Maybe junkyard for fuel pumpses on the weekend...

GabAlmighty

05-08-2009, 01:35 AM

Hope for your sake you get it done for IPD

ps. My friend saw you driving the other day...

Captain Bondo

05-08-2009, 01:42 AM

Hope for your sake you get it done for IPD

ps. My friend saw you driving the other day...

What do you mean? It's done- and it runs again. Beyond that it'll either explode or it won't. :-D

GabAlmighty

05-08-2009, 02:17 AM

Beyond that it'll either explode or it won't. :-D
More of what I meant... :-P

dbh86

05-08-2009, 02:55 AM

Maybe junkyard for fuel pumpses on the weekend...

Brand new and not JY? Plz?

Raz

05-08-2009, 03:05 AM

get kjet pumps from the jy, 7 of them, if one fail, mega redundancy and they flow like hell! :D

Ruben

05-08-2009, 03:50 AM

They actually do flow a lot!

JohnLane

05-08-2009, 10:10 AM

Kenny I have one of those brackets in the North of the shop.

I could order up a pair of new pumps + a filter.

They would arrive Tuesday.

Captain Bondo

05-08-2009, 11:08 AM

Cool John- I'll keep that in mind. Thanks!

Is there some manner of OEM fittings/plumbing that "tee" the fuel lines together at the pump inlets/outlets that I need, or do you usually just make that part?

I think I will do a couple of rudimentary tests first- connect a fuel pressure gauge and see what's what.

If fuel pressure is somehow good- I suspect five-o motorsport sent me the wrong injectors. They have a part number on them for something very small-- like a 19 or 24lb injector.

I called five-o and said "wtf?"and they assured me that is just what the injectors were born as, and they modify them.

Now that I am running out of injector at around what a 20 or 24lb injectors would max out at, it made me think of that.

If pressure is indeed no good, I have another reg here I'll swap, if that's no good then pumps it is.

740Weapon

05-08-2009, 11:17 AM

maybe a mega guru can chime in with what reality is, but i was always under the impression that "100%" duty cycle reads as "255%" in the megatune table.

could this be the issue?

Poik

05-08-2009, 11:23 AM

If that were true my car would have 125bhp @ 12psi.

linuxman51

05-08-2009, 11:23 AM

maybe a mega guru can chime in with what reality is, but i was always under the impression that "100%" duty cycle reads as "255%" in the megatune table.

could this be the issue?

that is not correct.

Captain Bondo

05-08-2009, 11:28 AM

Injector pulsewidths at 7500rpm were 20ms, which works out to 125% duty (impossible).

In the tuning screen in megatune it shows that, but it appears based on pulsewidths that the datalogged inj duty cycle is scaled to 100.

But maybe there's another oddity I missed?

Volvo Heretic

05-08-2009, 11:54 AM

3/8" air compressor manifold

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r123/VolvoHeretic/threewaycompressormanifold.jpg

http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay_10551_10001_35480_-1______14151%7C14152%7C14153%7C14161%7C35480?listi ngPage=true&Special=false

Captain Bondo

05-08-2009, 12:12 PM

Ok- exhaust cam advance was epic win.

I gained 500rpm worth of spool, from one adjustment.:wtf::omg:

Obviously it likes the still-burning gases.

I don't know if it is destroying top end yet - I only drove to work, no opportunity to wind 'er out to 7500rm. :-D

The idle definitely drops noticeably still when I let the clutch out in neutral. It's like the box itself is difficult to turn... I think it might just be the heavy fluid. That how it feels when spun by hand- just like it had a lot of drag. Not lumpy or rough or anything.

If I can get some more spool out of it from some ignition retard on the cells it uses coming on to boost, and maybe some more gains from cam timing, I DON'T NEED A SMALLER TURBO.

BBQ Still hasn't posted to tell me what hotside I should use or where these spool though, so I am kinda bummed about that.

I will laugh if I do make this thing have full boost by 4k though.

Side note: created another fantastic oil leak somehow during the trans pull. Exhaust side though so it should be an easy one- likely I knocked the oil return loose or something.

Kuikka

05-08-2009, 01:00 PM

Captain Bondo

05-08-2009, 01:17 PM

For testing fuel pump flow, just hook up a running car with battery cables to battery and remove return line and use regulated air pressure to pressure regulators MAP port. With pressure set little above your intended boost pressure you should have 25% higher flow than your injectors at 100%DC from return line. Altho I don't know if you use those return less systems...

No, standard system.

I will likely hook up a gauge, verify base fuel pressure, pressurize it with a blowgun like you said and verify it goes up, then go drive it have have someone watch the gauge.

Being that I am running out of fuel at only just over 50% of what the injectors should support, if the problem is fuel pressure it should be pretty obvious becuase it must be falling off HARD.

And BTW I think that turbo might not be correct match, it's probably too small...

:rockon:

Maybe I will buy a 1.52 A/R instead, just for you. :-D

Kuikka

05-08-2009, 01:56 PM

I recommend to measure the out flowing fuel from the regulator. Like for me my pumps pump 6 liters of fuel in 1 min when I have 2.7 bar at regulator MAP. It should be enough.

Captain Bondo

05-08-2009, 02:03 PM

Raz

05-08-2009, 02:11 PM

Kuikka: you have a 360LPH pump? :) what is it?

Finns always have really weird but ingenious ideas/methods :)

Poik

05-08-2009, 02:17 PM

Cool that you got it to spool sooner!

When the transmission is cold and I let the clutch out in neutral the idle will drop a little, but once the fluid has warmed up that goes away.

Captain Bondo

05-08-2009, 02:23 PM

Yeah, it want' any better by the time I got to work, but it's only a 15 minute drive. I imagine that will be the case- it'll be better hot.

I have had another thought-

the car was making a crazy noise on boost that neither I nor the dyno operator could identify.

Sort of like television static, like ping but softer and more rapid, and almost like rushing air like a boost least, but from inside the motor.

I almost think the exhaust cam was opening so late it was blowing charge air right through the head, hence crazy noise, lack of torque, slow spool.

Part of why I say this is because I was thoroughly confused when installing/timing the cams and didn't have the, locking tool. So, it's entirely possible that it ended up even more retarded than it is from the factory.

Once i drive it some more, obviously this will be confirmed if the noise goes away.

I didn't hear it on the way in to work, but I am so used to it now I have to intentionally listen for it, which i wasn't since this hadn't ocurred to me yet. :rofl: I was more listening for clutch related noises.

Kuikka

05-08-2009, 02:40 PM

Ok cool I htink I understand now- so I think what you are saying is with the engine off, jump the fuel pump so it is on, and measure the flow from the return line. Pressurize the regulator to boost pressure, and verify what comes outs of the return line.

That makes perfect sense and I don't have to risk lean conditions to verify.

That is beautiful. Heck I don;t even REALLY need a fuel pressure gauge, just a bucket with a known volume, a stopwatch, and a pressure regulator on my air line.

Wicked. You are the man!

Yes, that's the idea. However you need a running car to be connected with jump start cables to car that is being measured as the pump output is highly related to a voltage it gets. <-therefore use thick (AWG16 min) short lines to pump to minimize the voltage drop.

And for my pumps I use 2 Biltema cheap pumps parallel, they flow just shy of -044 pump and are cheap. Reason for dual pump setup is that I run out of fuel with one -044 in 1,4 bar boost.

Captain Bondo

05-08-2009, 05:44 PM

perfect, that makes sense. What I will likely do is use my charger as I can set it to approximate the alternator charging voltage.

The numbers work out good- a 255lph is 4.25 L/min at no pressure,

A Walbro 255HP is rated at 3.5l/min at 80psi, so that works out perfect- 60psi base pressure plus 20psi of boost.

My injectors are 600cc, so x6 =3600cc or 3.6L/min

So when I simulate boost pressure to the pressure reg, I should be getting at least that much flow out of the return line.

Well not quite because of pressure drops from fuel filter etc, but it's all very close. Hence why it *should* have all played together nicely.

I am excited to try this!

Captain Bondo

05-08-2009, 08:22 PM

Looking at the req fuel and ve map values for the Buchka's MSQ with 270cc injectors,
and looking at Poi's MSQ with 67lb, it seems more and more like the injector place sent me the wrong injectors.

Seems to me that the bosch number on the injectors was a 24lb, which is right about the size of injector that would max out at 285rwhp. :roll:

I even called the place I bought them form, and said "hey, the number on these injectors is a #24" and they said "oh we just use those as a base and then we modify them".

I suspect mine weren't modified.

I will test the fuel system tomorrow, but I am skeptical now. :(

How bogus is that?
:rant:

Poik

05-08-2009, 08:27 PM

That's a reason as good as any to go postal.

DNAsEqUeNcE

05-08-2009, 08:55 PM

get some 95 lb/hrs

Bonerjams240DL

05-08-2009, 09:12 PM

I must say that car sounds and looks phenomenal. I'm a fan.

wennstroma

05-08-2009, 09:48 PM

get some 95 lb/hrs

On my 2.3l 4 cylinder, the leanest I can get the engine to idle with 95 lb/hr injectors is 11:1. The pulse width is ~1.2ms, any lower and the engine starts cutting out because they're not even opening anymore. On a 2.8-2.9l six with 6 injectors it seems like it would be even worse.

L8 APEKS

05-08-2009, 09:50 PM

Very cool!

Any other pics of your car? I like the black/silver wheels on black. Looks sharp. Good numbers!

dieselboy

05-08-2009, 09:54 PM

have any stock green tops laying around?

Captain Bondo

05-08-2009, 11:00 PM

Used injectors will never touch this car. Never. If I could only pick one item to buy new for a project, it would be injectors.

If I am limited to 350bhp until I sort it out, so be it, I'll live. :rofl:

I certainly don't want or need 95's. What I want is what I ordered to begin with and sized correctly for my application.:-(

For more pics of the car, hit the "I'm trying guys" thread in showroom.

:cheers:

Thanks for the comments!

JohnLane

05-09-2009, 01:32 AM

Kenny.....

A pressure gauge in the supply up by the fuel rail. Make sure that you can see it and take it for a drive.

If you don't need more pump.... No sense in spending there.

Advancing exhaust cam for more fun. Nice!

I bet that taking ten degrees of ignition timing out as it builds boost will do wonders. Take out timing with large throttle openings+no boost over 2500.

I'm interested to see how it goes.

Reads as though you are needing more injector among other things. Ahhh the joys of 'sorting.'

Yea, Right

05-09-2009, 11:33 AM

Kenny, my 960 will be at IPD with a for sale sign on it next weekend. You are welcome to drive it while you are down here just for comparison. It sounds like you are working some things out.

Captain Bondo

05-09-2009, 11:37 AM

yeah, I will do a quick check to verify, but basically looking at Chris (Poi's) setup, he has very close to the same injector size as me, same motor, etc.

If I tried to run his settings my car wouldn't even start- I literally need twice that much fuel - all the way throught the map.

In other words, it's not just high load, even at idle I would need a little more than double the amount of pulsewidth Chri's setup gives.

If it was pump related I'd be pretty well the same at idle.

If it were the system pressure, well, my calcs say I'd have to be at 10psi base pressure. I don't think the injectors would even atomize...

Edit: Thanks Pete, that'd be cool! I didn't have the cam lock tool when I put the head together,

I kinda eyeballed it- yeah, I know, it was 2 years ago. :( Anyways my plan was to set it on the dyno anyways, so i wasn't too worried. I think I was off more than I thought.:rofl:

300+_T5R_855

05-09-2009, 11:46 AM

Did you put the cams in at TDC or the factory timing mark? They are different.

Captain Bondo

05-09-2009, 11:56 AM

Did you put the cams in at TDC or the factory timing mark? They are different.

The exhaust cam has no such marks- that's the problem. You can install the vvt gear any old which way you'd like, it is completely unkeyed- timing marks mean nothing.

The only way to correctly time the exhaust cam is to use the factory tool.

With my swap using the factory tool would mean pulling the motor. I'll pass on that. :rofl:

960 cams FTW.

I will set the timing up while I wait for five-o to send me the correct injectors. :rant:

300+_T5R_855

05-09-2009, 01:50 PM

Using the VVT?

GTJordan

05-09-2009, 02:31 PM

Captain Bondo

05-09-2009, 02:37 PM

Hey Kenny,
I can take a look on Vida on Monday, but there is a picture on there, that shows roughly the orientation the cams need to be in. It shows a drawing of the back of the head and it shows the cams slots.
Might get you closer atleast

Jordan

Cool man- I took a step back a bit and thought about it more closely-

I am 99% sure the slots in the cam need to be parallel with the top of the cam cover they need to be horizontal, basically).

They are offset, one is higher than the other, but they are parallel and horizontal.

I am 99% sure that I got this right, becuase I was f'ing paranoid of this very situation.

I second guess myself endlessly.

What it sounds like is assuming it was set up with the slots in the back horizontal, having the slotted holes in the cam gears up front set to the bolts are in the middle gives you "0".

That would make sens,e and it would make sense that I have it right and the exhaust cam was simply retarded, becuase it was set almost all the way retarded on the factory adjustment slots.

So yeah, if you have a drawing to confirm, that'd be sweet- but I am feeling more confident that I have them in right and the cam was just retarded.

VVT is left static and I have no intent on controlling it. I'll got to fixed hotter cams in the next couple months.

300+_T5R_855

05-09-2009, 02:50 PM

Not sure without looking, but you may be able to use the 850 cam gears.

kildea

05-09-2009, 02:52 PM

Not sure without looking, but you may be able to use the 850 cam gears.

unfortunately it does not work that way :-(

he's got it sorted out i think.

300+_T5R_855

05-09-2009, 03:09 PM

I meant to say 960 non VVT cam gear, not 850

kildea

05-09-2009, 03:36 PM

I meant to say 960 non VVT cam gear, not 850

same thing
the cam actuator is not in the gear, it's in the cam

300+_T5R_855

05-09-2009, 05:25 PM

If your not using VVT, why wouldn't you use a non VVT camshaft?

Captain Bondo

05-09-2009, 05:41 PM

he's got it sorted out i think.

Yup. Sorted.

I understand you wanting to help CJ but things don't interchange directly between the VVT and non VVT heads. We are working on adapting things though- as this motor in particular NEEDS cams.

It improved spool more than I thought- datalogs show full boost by 4000rpm. :omg: 4000rpm was my target, muthalickas. :rockon:

BBQ, What is your analysis? :-P

I did lose a bit of top end - but I think the intake gear needs some advance too which should help power everywhere. With some real cams this things going to bend frickin space-time assuming I can keep from 'sploding it..

This timing is strikingly easy to tune without a dyno- just watch duty cycle and boost curve.

My GEGO is set up well as are my afr target tables, so I can pretty easily change the timing and GEGO pretty much takes care of changes in the VE curve from a fueling standpoint.

I pulled 5 degrees of ignition timing arounf the boost onset poit of the map and it didn't do much. I'll try 5 more, then move on to the intake cam, once I try that I might need to tweak the exhaust cam again.

etc etc.

I need injectors, BAD.

Alex Buchka

05-09-2009, 05:43 PM

The heads and cams are different from VVT to non-VVT. If it was as easy as swapping a cam it's pretty obvious that Ken would have done that already.

Poik

05-09-2009, 05:48 PM

Spool by 4000rpm now huh? Nice, sounds like it's ready for me to drive!

300+_T5R_855

05-10-2009, 02:38 PM

The heads and cams are different from VVT to non-VVT. If it was as easy as swapping a cam it's pretty obvious that Ken would have done that already.

Just asking since I put a non VVT head on a VVT engine with non VVT cams. 5 cylinder of course.

kildea

05-10-2009, 02:43 PM

Just asking since I put a non VVT head on a VVT engine with non VVT cams. 5 cylinder of course.

precisely ... the cams go with the head.

Captain Bondo

05-10-2009, 03:32 PM

I did realize that was an option.

I stayed with the T6 head because:

A) I had it

and

B) I wanted to run this style of head because if I go one year newer on the next motor, I will get solid lifters, which I will likely need. I'd rather retrofit some different cams, than an entire valvetrain.

With both cams straight up it drive like and 850 on crack. Torque is at 3000-5500 or so.
Pretty boring but interesting.

I think I need to advance both cams, with the intake being advanced more than the exhaust cam to add some overlap. I may actually try to go about +2 on the intake and +1 on the exhaust, and it it doesn't have enoug topend I'll got to -1 or so on the exhaust.

Pretty interesting stuff and makes a HUGE difference.

Getting this a bit more dialed in will help me be that much closer to where I want to be for the next dyno session, on a dynapack with operators who know wtf it is I am trying to do.

I think I'll be far more equipped to know what I want to try and what to expect this time around!

I just hope I can spazz out on five-o enough to get them to send me injectors this week!

kildea

05-10-2009, 03:55 PM

awesome that you are seeing results, i'm excited to see what you get when you advance those suckers a bit more :)

should be very interesting ...

Captain Bondo

05-10-2009, 04:00 PM

Bigtime.

Also i forgot to mention something else I realized- advancing the exhaust cam actually increases piston/valve clearance, so there is no risk of hurting anything should the vvt mechanism "flop around" if something weird were to happen, since it can only flop around in the advance direction, so one can freely advance it via the slots as much as they like.

Captain Bondo

05-11-2009, 03:43 PM

So I got absolutely no help from Five-O.

They want me to either send these back (so the car is down for a week, minimum), or buy another set of injectors and then credit me when they receive these back.

Bull****. Send me the wrong injectors and I get to put up $500 or have the car down for a week?

They said "well, we don't know if we sent you the wrong injectors or not". So apparently the do not track or document the flow ratings of custom injectors they ship. Brilliant. Screw those guys.

So I won't have new injectors for some time now- until I have an extra $700 to buy some #75's from T1.

I told them to forget it in the end, I'd resell the injectors myself and buy elsewhere.

DNAsEqUeNcE

05-11-2009, 03:45 PM

delphi 100lbs!

adrianpike

05-11-2009, 05:25 PM

I've got some freshly cleaned & flowed big CFIs that you can borrow if you want. They only got pulled out of the baggies to put pintle caps on.

Captain Bondo

05-11-2009, 05:29 PM

I've got some freshly cleaned & flowed big CFIs that you can borrow if you want. They only got pulled out of the baggies to put pintle caps on.

Hitting you up on aim- I bet you're forgetting I need 6 and not 4 though. :-D

towerymt

05-11-2009, 06:53 PM

They want me to either send these back (so the car is down for a week, minimum)...
Is one week really a big deal? :lol:

Captain Bondo

05-11-2009, 07:18 PM

Is one week really a big deal? :lol:

It is now insured as my daily driver and I have to drive to work, so yeah, after having it not turn a wheel for a couple years, having it down is a pita now unles I want to keep paying to transfer insurance back and forth.

And even if it wasn't the case, it their screwup, not mine. I shouldn't have to run around like a chicken with my head cut off, transfering insurance, etc etc. You don't pay $500 for a set of injectors to get this sort of response. They should know exactly what they sent me.

If someone's brand new header cracked, I would send them a new one. Not tell them to buy another one and I'll credit them when they sent the old one back.

Poik

05-11-2009, 07:21 PM

Kenny my header cracked, so I'm gonna need you to send me a new one.

740Weapon

05-11-2009, 07:33 PM

Captain Bondo

05-11-2009, 08:05 PM

myself and many other brickers have learned that it is in fact cheaper to keep two volvos running and insured rather than one.

it only takes one or two incidents a year for a something like a beater 240 with minimum insurance to pay for itself.

and considering the scale of your project, i really suggest insuring two cars.

I do have a backup car and I could easily insure it if something went wrong. And I will- if something goes wrong.

But to work around some vendor being a prick? No.

I paid real money for parts like this so I can have a reliable car that doesn't end up off the road for weeks at a time for stupid reasons.

740Weapon

05-11-2009, 08:16 PM

yeah, i see your frustrations completely.

but alas, nothing is ever as easy as it should be.

sdturbo

05-11-2009, 09:44 PM

I do have a backup car and I could easily insure it if something went wrong. And I will- if something goes wrong.

But to work around some vendor being a prick? No.

I paid real money for parts like this so I can have a reliable car that doesn't end up off the road for weeks at a time for stupid reasons.

While you have a right to be upset, I wouldn't write them off. They have done good by me and a lot of friends/customers. There are a lot of shady consumers who would say they got bunk injectors and request another set when infact they are just hooking up a buddy or something. I know you are pissed but look at it from their prospective, for them to offer the pricing they do, that cannot afford to take losses like this.

If you want a reliable car thats not off the road for weeks at a time, stop now and go buy a honda civic and quit playing with motor swapped monstrosities. No matter who you buy parts from, how much you pay, or how much attn. to detail you put into something you will still have the odd issue here and there. At this stage id expect it to be down a lot as you find the weak links and wrong decisions.

Stick some junk yard/barrowed injectors in there and send them your injectors. Its a pain and it sucks but give them an opportunity to make it right. Im sure they will once they see that they have made a huge mistake.

244NA

05-11-2009, 09:55 PM

It's easy to want to be done with them completely (Been there) but it seems like they want to make it right.

Captain Bondo

05-11-2009, 10:05 PM

While you have a right to be upset, I wouldn't write them off. They have done good by me and a lot of friends/customers. There are a lot of shady consumers who would say they got bunk injectors and request another set when infact they are just hooking up a buddy or something. I know you are pissed but look at it from their prospective, for them to offer the pricing they do, that cannot afford to take losses like this.

They could happily have my credit card info. They can give me net/30 and invoice me. They had no need to bill me immediately unless I didn't make terms at which point they could just bill me. What are you talking about?

There's no obviously way I could screw them, since they already have what is obviously valid payment info. I offered to supply it again as well.

The important thing to note here is they didn't even have a record for the injectors they sent me.

This is a custom flowed set of injectors.

They should be able to look up my order, and pull up the flow bench tests for my set of injectors. Period. They didn't even know what they'd sent me.

None of the comments about reliability are valid- if the car ends up down due to some unforseen issue, so be it.

Maybe you don't realize it, but I didn't get this car together by being born yestderday and not knowing how these things go.

This is about someone else screwing up and then trying to make me pay for it. Not happening.

JohnLane

05-11-2009, 10:18 PM

This is about someone else screwing up and then trying to make me pay for it. Not happening.

Well not without some gnashing of teeth!

How is that working?

Captain Bondo

05-12-2009, 12:00 AM

Well not without some gnashing of teeth!

How is that working?

You know it! Works as I expected. Not great, but a man's gotta have principles. lol

klr142

05-23-2009, 10:48 PM

Do you have bigger injectors yet?

Captain Bondo

05-24-2009, 12:16 AM

No, unfortunately.

To be honest there are a lot of parts of the car I kinda just slapped together so I could get to IPD, and other unfinished/ghetto stuff I'm generally just not happy with I should deal with first.

The car is loud and has no power steering and is rattley and generally just kinda nasty and ghetto, so I'm forcing myself to make the car a little more civilized first, since I am daily driving it now. :rofl:

Still hoping to get to the dyno AND to the track before the end of june though.

YellowT5-r

05-25-2009, 10:39 AM

I noticed the lack of that belt at the garage sale and thought, "Damn, lucky that was a highway drive down." Ya know, you could get some major fabricator stud cred if you were to score one of the newer electric P/S systems and retrofit it. Peter showed me one of those the other day, and they're damn sexy.

Just a thought to distract you and make you fabricate bits that I'd want to buy from you :oogle:

Karl Buchka

05-25-2009, 10:54 AM

sdturbo has been running an electric power steering pump for months now.

kildea

05-25-2009, 10:56 AM

I noticed the lack of that belt at the garage sale and thought, "Damn, lucky that was a highway drive down." ...

on the 240's it's really not a major issue using the ps rack with no ps, not like in a benz or something.
i ditched mine when i did my build and daily drove it all year, parking in the city every day, it's not as hard to turn as people seem to think.

Captain Bondo

05-25-2009, 11:04 AM

on the 240's it's really not a major issue using the ps rack with no ps, not like in a benz or something.
i ditched mine when i did my build and daily drove it all year, parking in the city every day, it's not as hard to turn as people seem to think.

yeah it's liveable, but I guess my issue is I didn't really set out to build a "liveable" car- I actually am hoping this will be a "nice" car eventually. Uphill battle though, might not happen.:rofl:

Also I'm not sure what you had for rubber n your car, but I can also say that turning 235's on 18x9" wide wheels is much harder than squishy 205's on my old stock virgo's.

I special ordered the factory non-ac idler pulley and bracket, so once that comes I can just run a standard belt and all will be well.

I really want the car to have all of those details.

I'd like to get the AC working at some stage too but that won't be until when it's hibernating this winter.

Lord_Athlon

05-25-2009, 11:09 AM

yeah it's liveable, but I guess my issue is I didn't really set out to build a "liveable" car- I actually am hoping this will be a "nice" car eventually. Uphill battle though, might not happen.:rofl:

Also I'm not sure what you had for rubber n your car, but I can also say that turning 235's on 18x9" wide wheels is much harder than squishy 205's on my old stock virgo's.

I special ordered the factory non-ac idler pulley and bracket, so once that comes I can just run a standard belt and all will be well.

I really want the car to have all of those details.

I'd like to get the AC working at some stage too but that won't be until when it's hibernating this winter.

I know how you feel, im in the same boat. Im fighting an uphill battle to modernize a 240. My friend thinks im weird because I dont want to live with all the rattles and such. There isnt a reason to.

kildea

05-25-2009, 11:45 AM

i dunno guys, it's more than livable imo.

it's not hard to turn at all and i rather like the feedback, but to each his own i guess.

Captain Bondo

05-25-2009, 12:10 PM

i dunno guys, it's more than livable imo.

it's not hard to turn at all and i rather like the feedback, but to each his own i guess.

I agree with fairly stock width/offset wheels and tires it's not bad, but with my donked out stuff on there, the car would be easier to drive, AND much faster to drive on autocross, etc, with PS. i

Increasing the scrub radius like I have means the car literally tries to pull the wheel out of your hands to try to follow ruts, etc. Having the extra "mechanical advantage": of power steering should make that less noticeable and make the car easier to control.

Yeah the dealer dinged me $150 for the parts, but other than that, do I care about the hp the PS pump draws? Not really. You know how it is, T6's have enough HP to go around. :rofl:

So I might as well...

GabAlmighty

05-25-2009, 12:43 PM

UBC is hosting a track day on July 6th. Registration for that opens June 7th.
They also have one in June but registrations already closed

VCMC has these three dates:
Monday June 8
Monday Sept 21
Sunday Oct. 25

For VCMC you have to registor on Karelo and on the forum. They fill up stupid fast though, as in like 3 hours'ish fast

Also, the autox's right now are basically on a probationary period from VCMC, Porsche club has had one or two. Like I said, you need to find out about them and register minutes after it opens.
Sign up on the VCMC forums (http://www.vcmc.ca/) and they will have lots of information for you.
Lastly, you will probably need to make your car quieter... Limit is 92db I believe. (Stock S2K with an intake was too loud)

volvoluvin

05-25-2009, 02:04 PM

I agree with fairly stock width/offset wheels and tires it's not bad, but with my donked out stuff on there, the car would be easier to drive, AND much faster to drive on autocross, etc, with PS. i

Increasing the scrub radius like I have means the car literally tries to pull the wheel out of your hands to try to follow ruts, etc. Having the extra "mechanical advantage": of power steering should make that less noticeable and make the car easier to control.

Yeah the dealer dinged me $150 for the parts, but other than that, do I care about the hp the PS pump draws? Not really. You know how it is, T6's have enough HP to go around. :rofl:

So I might as well...

I can't say it enough Kenny...making your car "liveable/DD'able" is a stellar goal, but a very very hard goal. You knew the V-ron inside and out, it wasn't nearly as "knarly" as yours, but it had some edge...I spent a lot of effort and stoopid $$ into making it DD'able to the level I wanted, but I never seem to get there...everytime I thought, "oh this is it, it will be so nice to drive now", something else would happen, or I would mod something to move it away...These cars are nearing 30 years old...they will never feel like your wife's V70, (not saying that's your goal, and it shouldn't be). So I guess all I'm trying to say is be reasonable with what your "liveable" goals are or you will go insane...kinda like I ended up...and in large part why I moved on...This car has had a long road, and you're a damn talented guy/smart etc...so don't get lost in trying to make it kush...It needs to live on the ragged edge, you just need to make it survive there...