advice on turbo vs. V8 project

[Walter]

I have been gone from the board for a time and am contemplating doing a Volvo project. I am considering either building up a 4 cyl turbo or perhaps just dropping a Ford V8 into a Volvo platform. I would like to get some feedback from you folks on the pros and con of each approach as well as some input on the platform to use (200, 700, or 900 Series). Are any of these three superior to the others from a handling or other standpoint? The car would be used for some daily commuting and weekend fun driving. Thanks in advance for your expertise and experience.

[Chigga 744SE]

I wouldn't do v8, because, if u wanted a v8 just go buy a domestics.

thats my theory anyways.

depends on ur funding, as u can see my sig, that time I did w/fairly stock engine, only intake and exhaust, but others such as sticky tires and condition of the engine is also in consideration.

if u wanna spend minimum monney for max performance, this is wat I would do, source a 242, strip the hell out of it, roll cage, drop a B230FT w/15G and run MS, T5 swap, and make the suspension as hardcore as possible.

but if u have certain prefrence on certain model, then by all means go thru that route, I'm a big fan of the 700s, so I'll probally get an all black 740 and do it up.

as pro and cons, pro for V8 is u get the exhaust note and crazy burn-outs, cons are the swap might give u a headache, u better have good mechincal knowledge, and know lots of friends of machine parts, and it may that even be that fast, u'll probally hit low 14s w/say a 302, and thats an "if"

for turbo 4s, u remain the "Volvo pride" , and its amazing to hear the turbo spool, and it may even cost less than a v8, cause a v8 u'll need 2 sets of headers, 8 spark plugs and yali yada. Cons, ugh........ can't really think of any.

[stapler]

my take on it is kind of hypocritical, as i currently have a V8 thread on the boards....


i started tuning with japanese turbo cars (mainly Nissans) and so i have a unique perspective on tuning turbos (big differences between japanese and european tuning, the japanese focus on more precision controls for starters), and i really love a turbo engine, the spool of a big loud turbo still makes me cream my shorts

not to mention the efficiency- adiabiatic and otherwise




but i've been devoting about 1% of my volvo thoughts to the idea of putting an LS1 in my 760 wagon to replace the blown B230FT, maybe for a change of pace, maybe for the challenge- hell, i dunno

if you consider a V8, think about dynamics though, most V8 engines are heavy, throwing weight balance off, ruining handling (a cardinal sin)

an LS1 is all aluminum, and will be about as heavy as the stock iron block/turbo/intercooler and paraphernalia- as well as the wagon having a bit more weight in the rear to play with

an LS1 is pricey though


what i'm trying to say and might not be communicating it too well is that as Chigga said, a T4 wil keep the 'volvoness' as well as being cheaper (mostly) and made for that car

a V8 is original, fast, and depending on the unit, might not be all too problematic as far as dynamics go, so choose your poison


one consideration of a V8 will be mechanical knowledge, and knowledge of engine systems, not to mention knowledge of how to tune said V8 (can't leave it stock you know...)

my .02$, hope it helps

[Greg Wong]

I love both engines, just want to share from experience with both:

It is awesome to be able to go to a local auto place (in the US) and they have gaskets and such in stock for your V8 engined-volvo. You need that intake gasket for your B21 right now? Nope, gotta wait. And the prices, man, sure you need to get 2 whole headers... but look how much they cost, and how many options you have. You need just the 1 brand new header for your turboredblock? Gonna cost ya, when you eventually get it.

If you're doing tons of mods to the engine, both will soak up whatever budget you have and beg for more. You can get performance parts for both, and both will make tons of power.

Another example, I've got a 242T with it's B21FT, and a 245 with the Ford V8. I want new camshafts for each. For the B21, I want the V15 cam, that's $300 and could take a few weeks or so, probably will order from OJ Ralley. For the V8, the cam I want costs half that much, and I can get it from Summit with free shipping in about 3 days. That's a beautiful thing, let me tell you! (and that's not just "for instance", that is actually what I want to do.)

So which way do you go? You should try to take a ride in each and see how they are. If you are having a tough time deciding, why not one of each? :-) I'm lovin both of em!

As for 200 vs 700/900, well that's a whole nuther story... and I'm lucky enough to have a nice 940T around, too!

Greg

[Anonymous]

Two factors, cost and weight to level of performance goals. I had the same question over the last few months and went with a new Volvo Turbo 4cyl.
For total over all performance then go with a V8 and a Super Charger.
That will get you an easy 400 HP and for the money it is the cheapest HP per dollar. That is if you install the motor yourself. But if your looking for something in the 200 to 230 hp, good handling, and 25 mpg or better highway mileage then go with a 4 cylinder build up. The cost is about 1/2 of the V8 conversion. That 100 to 150 pounds of extra weight with the V8 will make a big difference in handling. I talked to Ross Converse about a V8 conversion last fall. Up to a month ago I seriously thought about it.

[neurot75]

im seriosly considering dropping a ford 5.0 into my 740 when i work up the money. sure it'll be much heavier thatn the b230ft, but thats why u get stiffer springs and shocks to compensate. and the thought that drives me so much towars it is that it will be a hellova beast and the ultimate sleeper. im probably gonna keep the hydras and the trim and all so it looks stock. oh and i just love the the feeling of the neverending pull. i drove a brand new chevy fullsize bed pick up the other day to nyc and back for a whole day, and i absolutely fell in love with v8's. it seemed like the powerband was never ending, a chasm of ecstacy. oh yea and the possiblity of putting in the ford 5 speed is very enticing.

[jiminy14]

this is probably the worst idea so far, but a lot of mg, and auston healy guys use the rover v-8's. they are small displacment v-8's, all aluminum, narrow. they might even be lighter than a stock four, but then your really screwed for parts and aftermarket goodies.
another thought-what about a compromise????? a buick gs drivetrain????turbo and larger displacement in one. it'd be easier to fit.
i was so gung-ho about a 302 in my 1800 that i cut the fire wall out last summer half way threw a restoration. then i came to my senses and spent about 10 hours welding and sealing it back up.
i don't want to piss anyone off but will a volvo rear end handle 300-400ftlbs of torque????

[V8BRICK]

Turbo 4 or domestic V8??

How about turbo V8? Guys with 5.0 efi and turbo kits are getting 25mpg while not in boost and 450hp to the wheels. All on stock internals and stock cam. With traction you're easily in the 11's, check out www.turbomustangs.com

[nohbudi]

i was going the V8 route till i found out what suspension work would be needed to be competitive in SCCA Solo2 events, not to mention how it completly reclassifies your car in most racing leagues. :e-shrug:

its an easy deciscion... 4cyl fury!

[Psycronic]

Turbo 4 or domestic V8??

How about turbo V8? Guys with 5.0 efi and turbo kits are getting 25mpg while not in boost and 450hp to the wheels. All on stock internals and stock cam. With traction you're easily in the 11's, check out www.turbomustangs.com

http://www.summernats.com.au/results_hpheroes.html has the results of this years horsepower heros. These are street regitered cars. Top power was 1376hp at the wheels from a 372 stroked V8 and twin turbos.

Walter,

I'm a little like greg... I've owned both high power turbo cars and v8 cars. (volvos in both cases) My personal preference is a v8 car. Having said that, it took me 3 years to create the car that I wanted. It certainly isn't perfect, but it is unique and a whole lot of fun to drive.
Creating a nice turbo car will be as expensive and frustrating as creating a v8 car. There are no real "off the shelf" part for High power volvos. Everything you do is custom and unique.

You can check out the LS1 thread about v8s here:
http://forums.turbobricks.com/viewtopic.php?t=6770

I'd be happy to answer any questions you had about a v8 into a 700 series car.

take care,
simon

[V8BRICK]

i was going the V8 route till i found out what suspension work would be needed to be competitive in SCCA Solo2 events, not to mention how it completly reclassifies your car in most racing leagues. :e-shrug:

its an easy deciscion... 4cyl fury!

Definately don't do the V8 swap for solo2 events, you will be seriously outclassed: I'm in E-mod, no way to win anything there. But I don't autocross to win anyway, it's more of a competition between friends for best times, still fun.

The other HUGE difference you will notice with a V8 swap over a built turbo, is the attention the V8 brings. I plan on going to the Fun Ford Weekend at Bristol Dragway at the end of this month, I can't wait to see the looks on all the guys' faces, it's truly amazing. Every time I drive my wagon around town I can see someone in cars around me pointing and talking about it, could be bad or good. Ask other V8 owners and they'll all tell you that it turns waaay more heads than stock engine ever could.

I think as long as you know your roots, know the background of volvos and have owned a few in the past, most volvo owners will accept you, all the volvo people I've talked to love it. It's not a betrayal to "true" volvo enthusiasts. As you can see, a lot of V8 owners frequent this board even when 99% of the threads are unrelated, I love reading about the advances of the turbo 4's. We've all been waiting for a couple years now on this T5 swap, once that is accomplished I think there is going to be a big evolutionary leap by the turbo guys.

In summation, haha, in doing the V8 swap you are opening up your knowledge base up to every mustang owner (or chevy) in the world, which can be good and bad. Lots more suggestions to weed through in solving problems and there's always the typical ones like, "needs more fuel!" or the classic "buddy of mine had the same problem...". Turbobricks has a lot of "theories" on what would work best, and mustang boards have a lot of "stories" about when things went wrong, haha.

It's a conundrum, that's why I vote turbo V8 :-D

[Volvord]

I have to step in and correct a huge myth. The V8 conversion does not add a bunch of weight. I converted my 740TI to a Ford 5.0L with a T5, I weighed the car before and after the conversion. In short the Ford 5.0L complete with cast iron heads added a total of 65 pounds to the car and only 35 of those pounds were over the front wheels.

I am currently building a new and highly modifred 5.0L, with the aluminum heads the weight should be equal to the original Volvo powerplant.

I drove the car with the B230FT with iPd springs, swaybars, Bilsteins for 4 years prior to the conversion, after the conversion the handing and feel of the car was unchanged, although now it is much easier to steer with the right foot.

Why a V8 in a Volvo? we all know the practicality, but as you all know the Volvo has exceptions chassis rigidity, something that few American cars can boast about. In short I would not hesitate to convert another car or Volvo to a V8, the fun in priceless

[SRK]

Probably the nicest Volvo I ever had was the 82 GLT 2-door I put a 92 Ford 5.0 HO into. I used the T-5 trans as well. There is more to it than absolute power, as the V-8 has so much low end torque, and is so smooth and quiet, that driving it is a whole new experience. If you are moving, any corner can be taken in third gear, with effortless pull leaving the corner. Full power means get a limited slip diff, as does driving in the rain. Big fun, all the time. 19 MPG in town, 30 on the highway, imperial.
I didn't change the GLT front springs. Car was a bit lower at the front, had a nice rake to it. I had a custom sway bar made in 1 inch material, and got back the stock feel. I should have moved the battery to the trunk, and if I had installed aluminum heads, I don't think the weight difference would have been noticeable.
Only problem was that car could run out of brakes with the engine, as you can return to high speed so quickly.
I changed sparkplugs, cleaned the throttle body, and changed the oil for 60k. That was the extent of needed repairs and maintenance.
I miss the damn thing.

[neurot75]

Would it make sence to put a Ford dana rear-end when doing the v8 swap? cuz that would make one sweet ass set up with the ford 5.0 v8, T5 tranny and the dana 60 rear end

[mikep]

Dana 60s are waaaayyy heavy.
There are much lighter rears that will do the job, and I wouldn't change from the Dana 30 until it showed its weakness.
Rears are less prone to blow in automatics and light cars.
An 8 inch rear would be strong enough if you need it.
V8 Vega builders would sometimes use up 2 or 3 pony-ass stock rears instead of making the switch, after all, there were so many around they were almost free(like Volvos are now) and it saved them from more fabrication.