240 brake bleeding order

[holtzboy]

So I have searched and didn't find anyhting 100% for sure. I will be performing brake work on both of my 240s relatively soon. One has been converted to RX-7 front calipers while my 244 is stock. I was wondering what the bleeding order is on 240s? Here is what I have seen others say and wanted to get some feedback:

1. Drivers side rear nipple
2. Drivers side front upper nipple
3. Passenger side front upper nipple
4. Passenger side rear nipple
5. Passenger side front outer lower nipple
6. Passenger side front inner nipple
7. Drivers side outer lower nipple
8. Drivers side front inner nipple

rear left
front left upper bleeder
front right upper bleeder
rear right
front right 2 middle bleeders
front left 2 middle bleeders

RF > LR > LF > RR

[bigbret]

ABS or not makes a difference. These are triangular split systems, so in the event of a major hydraulic leak in one of the circuits you still can retain 80% braking power. Good luck buy a motive power bleeder if you do not have abs. Make sure you open the metering valve if pressure bleeding.

[dl242gt]

1-8 are correct. The middle section is the same description. The last section is incorrect.
Be sure to use DOT 4 fluid only.

[Crazychopstick]

1. Drivers side rear nipple
2. Drivers side front upper nipple
3. Passenger side front upper nipple
4. Passenger side rear nipple
5. Passenger side front outer lower nipple
6. Passenger side front inner nipple
7. Drivers side outer lower nipple
8. Drivers side front inner nipple


This sounds good.

Although I never found the side nips to have a specific order, just bleed them. I do however bleed them the same exact order, just out of habit.

[holtzboy]

Sweet guys thanks for the nice and friendly tips. I thought I was gonna get flamed for not checking the manual. I used to have a Bently but I lost it. How you can loose that giant thick and blue book I am not sure but I did. It might be a worthy investment for a nice and shiny new one.

[smokeyfan1000]

I always go by what the Haynes Manual say for bleeding order. And it works, if ya don't do it in correct order, a little air will never get bleed out. Haynes & Bentley Bible differ in this sequence just so you know. I prefer, and had very good results with Haynes Manual way. About the only good I found in it.:lol:

[D3LaHk]

Know wonder I still have some air in my lines, ill be bleeding them tomorrow to fix that, thanks for the tip

also its for sure DOT4?

[holtzboy]

So another semi on topic question about this. Due to my RX-7 caliper having a wrong fitting installed on the brake line, the threads stripped so I swapped to what I thought was the same caliper. The 4 "circles" that touch the backside of the pads seem to stick out a lot more and the rotor will not fit between the pads. Is this the wrong caliper or is there a way to compress those farther in like the caliper on the far right in the picture?

http://www.jacqui-of-all-trades.com/shane/volvo/242ti/rx7/rx7_calipers.jpg
http://www.jacqui-of-all-trades.com/shane/volvo/242ti/rx7/rx7_calipers_2.jpg
http://www.jacqui-of-all-trades.com/shane/volvo/242ti/rx7/rx7_calipers_3.jpg

[dl242gt]

I've always pressed the pistons in with some large slip joint pliers. If they are resistant to being pressed in you can open the bleeder screws to release the pressure. Since you are going to bleed the brakes anyway. Be sure to put a rag over the bleeder so you don't get brake fluid somewhere it shouldn't be.

[holtzboy]

Thanks. I did some research and reading about the pistons and didn't know they just pushed in. They won't budge but I have not tried to open the bleeder screw yet. I was thinking about ordering a 'rebuilt' caliper just to be sure I am not going to have problems in the future. Do you think its worth it or should I just throw the junkyard caliper on and call it good?

[dl242gt]

No you definitely don't want to take a chance with that caliper. There is something wrong with it if you can't push the pistons in further. The aluminum will corrode internally just like the cast iron calipers and the pistons can seize. If you can't get those pistons to move then it is probably best to get a rebuilt replacement. Let the rebuilders deal with getting the pistons to move.

[holtzboy]

Yep just got back from Shucks Auto Parts (CSK/Kragen) which had the best deal; rebuilt caliper for $42 after core ($50 core). Already had the core with me so I don't have to worry about that and I will be ready to rock when it arrives at the store next week.

[bigbret]

THe train of thought is either to rebuild the calipers or buy rebuilt calipers. As stated earlier the calipers piston or bores can become corroded. These fixed calipers use fixed seals that also can loose their elasticity or memory If you go with rebuilt calipers, you get all new hardware and tthe calipers sometimes even come loaded:lol:, (w/ pads) plus that price is awesome. Good luck:cool::nod:

[smokeyfan1000]

Yep. If they originals, they are probably sticking.I got some at AutoZone for my 78 245 a few years back. Were pretty reasonable, came loaded w/pads, and did/do fine.Plus no shipping! Go ahead & paint them red or blue or black, so they won't look rusty next year, before you put them on, it adds "Bling".:lol:I used that DupliColor caliper paint from A/Z too. It really stays on! Make SURE you tape of piston & seal area good,don't won't paint there.

[holtzboy]

So I got the rebuilt caliper installed and everything buttoned back up. Quite a bit of fluid leaked out and the master cylinder does not have any fluid in the reservoir anymore. Does that mean I have to bleed the master cylinder as well? What does that involve, just cracking the lines at the master cyl and let it dribble out a bit?

[holtzboy]

Just confirming if this would be the correct order to bleed my 242 with RX7 brakes which has 2 of the front lines deleted and plugged at the junction block. The RX7 brakes only have 1 bleeder on the upper part so theres 4 bleeders total on my car.

1. Drivers side rear nipple
2. Drivers side front upper nipple
3. Passenger side front upper nipple
4. Passenger side rear nipple

I just noticed that I didn't tighten the new driverside fitting enough because I am scared of stripping the aluminum threads again so I will have to start the whole process over.

[holtzboy]

Seemed to have fixed the leak so I am going to bleed again. Anyone know for sure if the order is the same with the two front brake lines deleted (1 - 4). I assume so because I read that the other bleeders don't have a specific order on the front calipers.

[ktm450]

I would highly recommend not pedal bleeding it and instead useing one of these http://store.motiveproducts.com/shared/StoreFront/default.asp?CS=motive&StoreType=BtoC&Count1=709026515&Count2=626166939 or similar pressure bleeders. Pedal bleeding can/will mess up your master cylinder on an older car, as the seals/cups get into different parts of the bore where there may be rust slag junk, etc. that will destroy the seals in the master cylinder.

A buddy of mine with a 1992 BMW 325 trashed his 600.00(!!!) dollar master cylinder by pedal bleeding, and then messed up the new one pedal bleeding it!! He paid half that, but still very costly. I once spent 2 days bleeding a 1980 242 and didn't realize that I had trashed the master cylinder by pedal bleeding it.

The type of bleeder shown in the link is super easy to use, can be done by yourself and allows you to flush all of the old brake fluid out and replace with new. It usually takes about two quarts of fluid to flush all of the old fluid out. You will have pedal afterwards if you had pedal before you started. My brother has one and I will never pedal bleed a brake system again.

[holtzboy]

Guess I didn't meantion that I was using a motive powerbleeder. The pedal travels a little farther than before but the brakes still work great and I don't see any leaks so I am going to call it good. I will be swapping everything to a new 242 before the summer is over hopefully so I am not worried about the pedal not feeling perfect. Thanks for the tips guys.

[smokeyfan1000]

If you bleed with brake pedal, don't mash pedel more than 2 inches or so, makes the MC piston/seals travel into rusted/unused part of bore. You could go A#1 way and replace MC when you get all the air out of lines.Especially if it is OEM original MC,. Then reblled a little with new MC, it's what I do when redoing brake system. Stay away from A/Z REBUILT Master cylinders though, they are junk. The new ones they sell are OK in my experience. I bought a rebuilt one once, lasted 2 miles! No Joke! Bought new A/Z , still works fine.

[holtzboy]

Bump from the dead because I am not sure. Does anyone know for sure the order to bleed 240 brakes if you have RX7 calipers and the two front deleted lines?

I have been bleeding like this:

1. Drivers side rear
2. Drivers side front
3. Passenger side front
4. Passenger side rear

So far the brakes won't go back to how they were on my 84 242. I have never been successful bleeding and I think it hates me.

[holtzboy]

Well I bled them again the same way and the pedal still sucks. So I tried bleeding:

1. Rear passenger
2. Rear Driver
3. Front Passenger
4. Front Driver

Pedal feels just about the same. If I really push down hard the brakes grab nicely like before. One question I do have is I can hear a weird squeek/woosh noise when I press down on the brake pedal. Does this indicate something is wrong with the master cylinder or is it normal?

[Redwood Chair]

Bad booster.
Off to the JY for you.

[holtzboy]

Bad booster.
Off to the JY for you.

Hmm it was the booster from my old 84 242 which seemed to work fine. Except if I press down on the brake pedal it seems to change the idle a little bit. So I might as well get a new master cylinder and set that up on the replacement booster huh?

[Redwood Chair]

Bad master will never firm up since it is hydraulic,and fluid pressure works or not if there is a leak.
Sounds like the vacuum assist of the booster is faulty if hard pressure still stops the car..

[Kjets On a Plane]

I've been replacing marginal/fairly lousy boosters a LOT more often on 240s in the last 2ish years as well as highbeam relays lol. It is like they have this 2012 and end of life little hiccup happening in 2010.

It could be people are also driving them with squishy pedals (for various reasons...) that is making the booster travel more outside its intended range of motion for the diaphragm causing much accelerated wear as the cars get older and more neglected more often than not.

More pedal effort or hissing is almost always a booster, along with worse idle or idle dip. Booster problems can get really exciting in some cars if the engine starts drawing in oils or brake fluid for one reason or another...not usually going to happen in the volvo.

As to the bleeding, I believe the RX-7 setup is intended to be routed single diagonal, though depending on how one installs the lines on the junction, one could really make a mess of a diagonal master cylinder by pairing the calipers side-side on the car, as well as probably some other braking symptoms.

Hopefully I'm not the source of your tales of woe...I'm glad I can work and take the time to do things start-finish, slow as I am.

Best of luck

[Redwood Chair]

^ +1
When the 20 year repair cycle rears it's ugly head to claim your rubber products,
remember the oil in the locks & ignition is about dried up too.
Give them a little love with the secret sauce before they leave you high and dry.
http://www.madogre.com/Interviews/breakfree.htm

[Redwood Chair]

2x post.

[holtzboy]

No, when I got my 84 242 back from RSI way back when the brakes and pedal feel were awesome. The two lines that got deleted are the ones that are on the right side of the strut. I just copied how the 84 was on my new and improved 79, I believe its like this but I could remember wrong:

http://www.jacqui-of-all-trades.com/shane/volvo/79_242/junction.JPG


I've been replacing marginal/fairly lousy boosters a LOT more often on 240s in the last 2ish years as well as highbeam relays lol. It is like they have this 2012 and end of life little hiccup happening in 2010.

It could be people are also driving them with squishy pedals (for various reasons...) that is making the booster travel more outside its intended range of motion for the diaphragm causing much accelerated wear as the cars get older and more neglected more often than not.

More pedal effort or hissing is almost always a booster, along with worse idle or idle dip. Booster problems can get really exciting in some cars if the engine starts drawing in oils or brake fluid for one reason or another...not usually going to happen in the volvo.

As to the bleeding, I believe the RX-7 setup is intended to be routed single diagonal, though depending on how one installs the lines on the junction, one could really make a mess of a diagonal master cylinder by pairing the calipers side-side on the car, as well as probably some other braking symptoms.

Hopefully I'm not the source of your tales of woe...I'm glad I can work and take the time to do things start-finish, slow as I am.

Best of luck

[Kjets On a Plane]

I sent you a PM, more in a bit. I'm moving and eating lunch, but have to get back to it.

[holtzboy]

I thought I would bump this since I still have brake issues. Fighting with a brake pedal that travels 1 to 1.5 inches before it actually engages the brakes. I bench bled the master, powerbled @ 20-25psi multiple times, knocked the rear limiting valves with a rubber mallet, left the car overnight with rake then bled again. I was going to pump up the brake pedal with the car off then turn it on per the Bentley to test its functionality. There was a squeak when I pressed the brake pedal down and thought it was the check valve but I replaced the 3/8 hose for fun and different check valve, same thing.

My 244 actually makes the same noise and has had the same brake pedal problem ever since I changed the calipers, rotors, pads and fluid a few years ago. My 245, which has awesome brakes does not make the noise and the pedal is very firm and responsive. Do you think I am dealing with 2 bad brake boosters? Here are some vids:

79 242:
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/OhHzqiuiPVk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

79 242 closer:
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/o2PrHSvTDio" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

86 244 and 86 245:
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/HonWinnwltE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[holtzboy]

Forgot to show how far the pedal sinks before putting any pressure on the brakes, makes a whoosh noise while the car is on:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FboevgtoNvg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[holtzboy]

I am thinking of anything it could be, my junction block might be arranged goofy:

stock setup
http://www.jacqui-of-all-trades.com/shane/volvo/79_242/2012/stock_setup.jpg

dave barton setup
http://www.jacqui-of-all-trades.com/shane/volvo/79_242/2012/dave_barton_setup.jpg

my setup
http://www.jacqui-of-all-trades.com/shane/volvo/79_242/2012/holtz_setup.jpg

http://www.jacqui-of-all-trades.com/shane/volvo/79_242/2012/junction_block.jpg

[542]

I just changed my rotors and calipers today and wanted to double check the order of bleeding. So everyone seems to have a different "wording" of either left or right (are you facing the car or in the car?) and same for the description below.

So my 1990 front calipers have one bleeder nipple near the outside (closest to the wheel studs) and then two which are next to each other (on the inside of the caliper, next to the caliper studs)

1. Drivers side rear nipple
2. Drivers side front upper nipple ## assuming you mean the upper of the two near to caliper bolts?)
3. Passenger side front upper nipple
4. Passenger side rear nipple
5. Passenger side front outer lower nipple

6. Passenger side front inner nipple ## Im assuming you mean the single, stand alone nipple on the front? ##

7. Drivers side outer lower nipple
8. Drivers side front inner nipple


Cheers,
G

[542]

So bled the brakes starting with drivers side rear. And now have the dreaded no pedal feel.
Bled them again, no difference. I replaced the passenger front caliper with new ipd, new braided lines and one new hard steel line that I destroyed. I find it hard to believe my mc just decided to pack it in... Yes I did probably push the pedal more than a couple inches during all this. Ye they were bled with motive bleeder. Any suggestions before I walk to the parts store for a new mc? With engine off the pedal slowly loses pressure and goes to floor. With engine running no feel whatsoever

G

Mobile post