240 Series Adjustable Torque rods:

[Hank Scorpio]

Tools needed:
right angle drill
1/2 drill bit
3/4 wrench and 3/4 socket
Welder (not really needed on the car, you can do this ahead of time)
Cutoff wheel

Parts needed:
I used link rod and threaded adapters from www.hrpworld.com You'll need 4 1/2X20 threaded inserts and matching rod. This is what I used (http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=71_155&action=product) You'll need about 3 feet of rod.
4 1/2X20 Heim Joints I used these (CM8s) (http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=143_476&action=product)
4 bolts, I used 1/2X20 Grade8 3 or 3.25" long, 4 nuts and washers. Grab a few extra nuts just in case. Also, you'll need 4 Jam Nuts for the rod ends, but any normal nut will work.
Something metal and tubular that is atleast 1/2" ID. 6" is plenty.

Install:

OK, so I bet your wondering why you want to do this. Well, when you lower a 240, it throws the rear suspension geometery off. Everyone knows already about the panhard, but the torque rods also have a negative effect. When the suspension compresses (or is lowered) the torque rods fixed length causes the axle to rotate back, or up if you look at the driveshaft. This not only moves the driveshaft closer to the floor but it also causes the wheels to be moved further back in the wheel wells.

The other benifit is you get rid of the sloppy bushings and replace them with solid heim joints. If your abusing the car at all you've no doubtly turned what was a round bushing, into this:
http://www.pbase.com/image/29164486/large.jpg
Mine were not only ovalized, but the mounts were completely cracked through on both sides and both ends!

So heres what you need to do. When you get your parts from HRP your going to get the rod in uncut form. What you need to do is cut the rod so that your total length from threaded insert to threaded insert is 12.5". I found this gives plenty of adjustment. Now, you dont cut the rod this long, you adjust for the inserts at both ends.

Then slide the inserts in and have them welded up. You should end up something like this
http://www.pbase.com/image/29255568.jpg
Now like I said, the TOTAL length is 12.5, the adapters you use may vary so be sure to adjust. +/- 1/2 inch or so shouldn't be a problem.

Now, I bet your wondering why you need all the standard stuff. Well, our cars torque rods use Metric bolts, or 12mm's. Problem is, the heim joints are made for US standard, 1/2 which equates to 12.8MM. This gives .8mm slack in the joints. Do NOT think this is acceptable, it will quickly turn the bolt into a pretzel if you try to run it this way.

So, heres where the drill comes in. You will have to slightly open all the holes that the former bolts went through. Piece of cake. You should be able to slide your bolt through like this.
http://www.pbase.com/image/29255571.jpg

The car side is a bit more challenging. Obviously, the bolt threads into the frame rail. The outter bracket is easy to modify, so just drill out the frame with the 1/2" drill through the threads. You could probably actually rethread this with a tap for 1/2X20 threads.

Or, the threaded insert will break out of the frame. This happened to me on one side before doing this anyways. So, what I did was take a cut off wheel and cut a rectangle hole out of the bottom of the frame rail like so:
http://www.pbase.com/image/29255569.jpg

Then, I slid the bolt through, using fender washers on both side and just put a nut on the other end.

Now, before you do this, you can obviously see that theres some "slack" between the rod end and the bolt ends. What you need to do is make some "spacers" to take up the slack. Obviously, your sizes will vary so just do your best.

Then, just tighten everything up and you should have this:
http://www.pbase.com/image/29255572.jpg

Adjusting the torque rods:

I found the best techique is to leave one side completely off. Mount the one rod and adjust it where you think you need it. Jack the axle up to just before it picks the car off the jack stands. Look at the side of the car and see abouts where the wheel falls in the well. When you think you've got it close, lower the car on to the ground and see if it looks good. When it is adjusted right, install the other torque rod to the same length.

You should be able to go from this:
http://www.pbase.com/image/29256408.jpg
to this
http://www.pbase.com/image/29001706/large.jpg
or even more centered if you want.

Doug

[fast850turbo]

i'll buy a set if oyu wanna sell a set...

[Hank Scorpio]

I could probably have the rods made up, but for the most part, the spacers and such will all be different slightly car to car.

[Dr. Volvo]

On my old car I cut of 15mm and welded them back together, but this was a little much so after a while my u-joints were wrecked since the splines at the middle bearing bottomed.
I solved this by shortening the rear part of the propellershaft.

But it helped ALOT on the grip, it was allmost impossible to take burnouts.:) :???: :-(

On my new car I'm not gonna shorten them that much because it changed the angle on the rearaxel a little to much. Maybe I'll shorten them around 10mm I don't know if I have to use the shorten propellershaft.

The angle you want is a little lower than the angle on the propellershaft since the rearaxel will twist a little uppwards when you accelerate, and you want the prop.shaft to line up with the rearaxel when you apply max torque.

Hope you understand what I mean, but English isn't my first language.

[Hank Scorpio]

No that makes perfect sense to me bud. I wanted to do adjustables just so I could play with the DS angle if I had to.

Plus I can't tig weld ;-)

[Obeharskad122s]

What needs to be TIG welded?
Am I lost here?

That stuff is all mild steel, which is easy to weld with say, a Hobart Mig welder...

[Hank Scorpio]

The OEM torque rods are aluminum if memory serves me correctly. Thats what I was refering to having to be TIG'd.

[Obeharskad122s]

You must have gotten lucky to get some aluminum ones.
Every one that I've seen is mild steel.

Good deal, I'll have to look for some aluminum ones next time I'm in the junkyard.

[Hank Scorpio]

I wouldn't. All the OEM designed torque rods are crap imo.

They might not be aluminum.. now that I think about it. Either way, I wanted to go adjustables, rather not be stuck to a cut and weld... cut and weld... cut and weld finally get it right.

[Obeharskad122s]

I agree. Nicely done either way.

[Hank Scorpio]

Oh, for those who are intrested, Dave and I have been scheming on using Metric Heim Joints. He's hit a snag with finding threaded inserts, but should we work it out, his set will be drop ins (he's making them). And, if it works the way we think it will, it wont even require welding.

[ashvolvo]

Doug, have you done much driving now on your new torque rods yet?
If so, what sort of handling difference are you finding? - theres a reason for my question....

Thinking about it logically, it should sit a lot flatter and be better on corner entry, fairly neutral mid-corner, however my concern is corner-exit

Under hard acceleration, do you find that it lifts the inside rear wheel? - might be difficult to tell since you have a locker installed.

My dad and I were lying on our backs under the back of the 240 fitting reconditioned torque rods with urethane bushes, having a nice father-son bonding moment, and discussing 240 rear suspension geometry (Dad has about 30+ years of motorsport engineering experience, mostly speedway stuff, both dirt and asphalt).
We were thinking that a stiff (or reasonably so) link between the top of the diff housing and the body (ie torque rod) may not have enough 'give' to allow enough difference in wheel travel between the rear tyres to put enough weight on the lightest (inside) rear tyre under hard acceleration on corner exit.

fast forward to this morning....
Finally had the chance to take the 240 on a hard test drive.
A roundabout near home (quiet road),
Drive in 110kmh, brake down to 65kmh - car feels nice, much tighter in the rear end, acceleration much better than with standard torque rods (due to the diff housing not being able to 'roll' forwards under acceleration and between gear changes).
Turn-in, slight left hander, then hard right-hander (to go back to where I came from), 2nd gear, HARD acceleration, HARDER acceleration, same amount of steering locking, the car absolutely FRIES the right rear tyre, even when beginning to reduce steering lock.

HEAPS of fun, but certainly wont be great on a track day.

two solutions -
1/ Locker
2/ modifed torque rods - perhaps one soft end and one solid (heim joint) or stiff (urethane) end.

So, I guess my questions are:
1/ do you experience the inside rear wheel losing traction (or wanting to)
2/ any uncomfortable feeling trying to get drive out of tight corners.

Obviously there are significant differences in our cars, but Im after some feedback with something other than standard, and I also like the heim joint idea, they look great, no need for pressing bushes in and out, and also are a much easier servicable component.

What do you think? contact me off-list if you want to avoid a monsterous essay.
Thanks mate,
Ash

:???:

[Hank Scorpio]

Ash, I have indeed driven it quite a bit now. The car is MUCH more trackable, and much more predictable. Straightline I can barely chirp the tires now, it really seems to keep the tires planted.

I took justin for a nice ride, jumped on the freeway by my shop that has a nice fairly quick, flat 90* onramp. Took it in 2nd gear. Romped on it, ended up putting it into probably the most controlled drift I"ve experienced with the car. Before the car would SNAP into oversteer at will, and would ussualy just attempt to loop the car around, now its VERY predictable and VERY trackable.

I'd HIGHLY suggest these to anyone.

[nohbudi]

wow just gonna go right over our heads on the assembly of these rods for production

i guess the fact that from day one, before you ever made yours, that i had planned on producing them, and still plan on producing them puts me into a position that neither my dad no i would prefer to be in. the competition would be lame especially since we make little money on our current products as it is.

thanks doug

[dbarton]

Oh, for those who are intrested, Dave and I have been scheming on using Metric Heim Joints. He's hit a snag with finding threaded inserts, but should we work it out, his set will be drop ins (he's making them). And, if it works the way we think it will, it wont even require welding.

I'm not making any yet... still in the sort out phase. Just trying to find an alternative where the standard metric fasteners can be used.

Yes... the metric (12 x 1.75mm) rod ends are available, but the threaded inserts (weld in adapters) for the rod end do not seem to exist in the U.S. Ideally I would like to have a right-hand thread on one end and a left-hand thread on the other.

A suggestion was made to possibly weld a nut on each end (these are available in 12 x 1.75mm in RH and LH thread) although I'm cautious about the short amount of thread available in a nut.

Then there is the option of threading the ends of some tubes to accept the rod ends (LH and RH thread taps are available through McMaster Carr.

Can't decide yet.

wow just gonna go right over our heads on the assembly of these rods for production

i guess the fact that from day one, before you ever made yours, that i had planned on producing them, and still plan on producing them puts me into a position that neither my dad no i would prefer to be in. the competition would be lame especially since we make little money on our current products as it is.

thanks doug

And nohbudi: If you decide to produce these I'll be happy to be one of your customers. I would rather buy them for a reasonable price than go to the trouble of making them.
Dave B.

[WeezilUSA]

Now, what about 700 series... I noticed Peter Linsen's car had this done to it... sounds like it might be in order for my car too..

[nohbudi]

about 740s....

once i had completed a production 240 model, i was going to get a 740 setup from PNP and design replacement rods for the 740, but at this point i cant tell you if i can go ahead and do this at all.

[WeezilUSA]

http://www.mvpvolvo.com/content/project_images/Peters_1986_740-29.jpg
like so :???:

[nohbudi]

exactly

[Hank Scorpio]

Oh god Kiri, cry me a river. Seriously, if your going to make them MAKE THEM. I made my own cause I wanted to and I Was tired of waiting, I needed to make them.

Im not going to give you "patent rights" on them, I'll share it with the board. IF you want to go ahead and sell them fine, Im not going to.

So, quit whinning in my threads.



Dave, if you can find thick walled tubing that is a bit undersize of the size you need to tap them, that would be ideal. My first torque rod was made that way.

[nohbudi]

sorry about the outburst.

i very much do still intend on making them, based upon the same design of the panhard rods (that being that they will mount directly into the stock location without any modification to the mounts)

My intentions are to use nuts from our supplier of demesions that allow us to insert them into the rods and be appropriatly welded in place, once we expand the end of the rod. this will allow use to use a heavier heim joint from aurora, which will be just as strong, but not as expensive as a similar load rated heim joint of a smaller overall size. we also intend to get either a hex collar or nut large enough to slide onto the center of the rod, and allow adjustment with a wrench. this of course is to go along with the orignal plan to have one end RH thread and the other LH thread, for easy adjustment without removal of the rods.

also if we can find a supplier for spring steal tubing, we might just use the virgin tubing over used torque rods.

[ashvolvo]

Ash, I have indeed driven it quite a bit now. The car is MUCH more trackable, and much more predictable. Straightline I can barely chirp the tires now, it really seems to keep the tires planted.

I took justin for a nice ride, jumped on the freeway by my shop that has a nice fairly quick, flat 90* onramp. Took it in 2nd gear. Romped on it, ended up putting it into probably the most controlled drift I"ve experienced with the car. Before the car would SNAP into oversteer at will, and would ussualy just attempt to loop the car around, now its VERY predictable and VERY trackable.

I'd HIGHLY suggest these to anyone.

Thanks for the feedback, I'd say that the reason for large handling difference would be that you're running a locker and I'm not :-(
Perhaps there is some sort of factor introduced by centering the rear end within the guards too. :???:
I might draw it all out, ie. suspension pick up points and operating angles and work at it from there. - to ease my curiosity.

I think a locker would solve the issue of frying the inside rear tyre - spectacular but certainly not fast.

Thanks again,
Ash

[ashvolvo]

sorry about the outburst.

i very much do still intend on making them, based upon the same design of the panhard rods (that being that they will mount directly into the stock location without any modification to the mounts)

My intentions are to use nuts from our supplier of demesions that allow us to insert them into the rods and be appropriatly welded in place, once we expand the end of the rod. this will allow use to use a heavier heim joint from aurora, which will be just as strong, but not as expensive as a similar load rated heim joint of a smaller overall size. we also intend to get either a hex collar or nut large enough to slide onto the center of the rod, and allow adjustment with a wrench. this of course is to go along with the orignal plan to have one end RH thread and the other LH thread, for easy adjustment without removal of the rods.

also if we can find a supplier for spring steal tubing, we might just use the virgin tubing over used torque rods.

If you're using heim joints at either end (possibly with L and R handed threads) you REALLY dont want to introduce another point of adjustment in the centre.

This would make getting each rod the same length VERY difficult, introduce more welding (potential for warping or distorting/weakening the material your using) and probably increase the cost of production if you're thinking of selling them.

As with anything you might make though, you need to test it all first and properly. remember that suspension component failure has potential to end in the injury of your customers or those you care about. (not even mentioning possible financial impact to yourself)

DESIGN > FABRICATE > TEST > TEST > TEST > REMOVE & INSPECT > RE FIT > TEST > TEST > REMOVE & INSPECT > FINALISE PRESENTATION (make it look pretty) > SELL

I might be telling you things you already know, if so, I apologise.

Anyway, best of luck, have fun

Ash

[nohbudi]

heh, i appreciate the suggestions, but i think you misunderstood me. im only putting the part in the middle, as a spot to put a wrench on so its easier to turn. it wont be cut at all, just a large hex nut slid over the end of the rod and welded on at the middle.

you made an excellent point about warpage, which is why if i do add that hex location, im gonna have to make certain that its welded on evenly, simply because i dont want to get anyone hurt.

[Captain Bondo]

Where the heck did my post go?
Anyways, I *thought* I posted saying if you have a lather you could make them form solid aluminum round stock- just drill and tap the ends however you want. You could bang 'em off in a couple minutes.

And as far as Kiri's wining goes- why don't you search "T5 adapter" and see what comes up for the earliest posts. I just bought my own idea from someone else. Such is life. You either do it or someone else does.

[ashvolvo]

heh, i appreciate the suggestions, but i think you misunderstood me. im only putting the part in the middle, as a spot to put a wrench on so its easier to turn. it wont be cut at all, just a large hex nut slid over the end of the rod and welded on at the middle.

you made an excellent point about warpage, which is why if i do add that hex location, im gonna have to make certain that its welded on evenly, simply because i dont want to get anyone hurt.

Ah... I see :)
modifications are alway never a problem on your own car, but if you're making production runs of components for sale, its always best to test a lot first.
We have some components on our 240 at the moment, that arent mentioned at all on the site, simply because we havent done nearly enough testing yet. If you get a chance, track days are ideal, as they put lots of stress on suspension components (obviously you will have done some testing beforehand) and they can be great to work out what will work and what wont.
We try to do a track day with 2 or 3 different designs of components and swap them in and out during the course of the day.
You really can learn a lot doing this, also with some of our components we get them stress tested afterwards as well.
Just some thoughts.

[Hank Scorpio]

Kenny, Dave and I are thinking along the same lines for doing metric ones if all else fails.

You'll notice my first torque rod looks like this:
http://www.pbase.com/image/29001703.jpg

thick walled tubing, threaded. Worked fine too.

[Captain Bondo]

ya thought there was just buying roundstock is cheaper than tube+threaded inserts and it eliminates the welding. I'll probably try to get around to doing some this way as I've been having trouble with torque rods as well.

[boosted12a]

that 740 set up is nice.....

[WeezilUSA]

Yeah, I'm looking to do something of that nature... I wonder how much it will improve the traction? I'm doing it more to get my rear end all in alignment so I can figure out what is goin on.

[Hank Scorpio]

Thats the main reason I did it (alignment) but over all it seems to have helped improve traction as well.

[qwkswede]

Can anybody comment on the amount of noise increase you get from running these very solid torque links? Would these be appropriate for a street car? With an emphasis on street. I'm tired of obnoxious and loud street cars. Had plenty of them. I like to hear my radio without cranking it to 11.

[ashvolvo]

Can anybody comment on the amount of noise increase you get from running these very solid torque links? Would these be appropriate for a street car? With an emphasis on street. I'm tired of obnoxious and loud street cars. Had plenty of them. I like to hear my radio without cranking it to 11.

Doug would be the best person to comment on this, but I guess NVH would increase a little, whether its noticable, Im not sure, but road noise and vibration etc might transfer more into the cabin as its not being dampened (or dampened as well) by a rubber or urethane bush.
solid mounting of anything usually results in more noise or general in-car harshness.
In the case of torque rods though, I wouldnt think that the difference would be a big one. It might not even be noticable.

[Hank Scorpio]

Over all, I noticed no increase in noise or harshness. If you have worn trailing arm bushings, odds are you'll hear/notice them now.

I think its actually smoother. On/Off throttle transisitions are much smoother now.

[dbarton]

I made my own 240 torque rods and want to illustrate how I did them....

I started by reviewing Doug's pioneering efforts above. But I noticed the problem Doug had with fitting 1/2 x 20 (standard) ROD ENDS when the existing bolts used in the 240 are 12 x 1.75mm. Also, Doug used weld-on threaded ends that he bought from a race car supply company. These threaded ends are not available in metric thread, so I decided to go with welding a nut on each end of the tube.

So I purchased 12 mm ROD ENDS from Hillco Fastener Warehouse in Garden Grove, CA (http://www.hillcofasteners.com/) (they take phone orders). I ordered the following:
(2) 12 mm Rod Ends - right hand thread (about $9 each)
(2) 12 mm Rod Ends - left hand thread
(6) 12 mm Jam Nuts - right hand thread
(6) 12 mm Jam Nuts - left hand thread
These items ran around $45 with shipping I think (can't recall exactly) and took two weeks to get.

I went with RIGHT and LEFT hand threads because I wanted these rods to be adjustable without having to remove one end.

Then I went on the hunt for some steel heavy wall tube that a Jam Nut would fit into (so it could be welded... you'll see). I located 3/4 inch ID heavy wall gas pipe and cut two 12 inch sections (See EDIT below for update after install).
http://www.bartonharness.com/images/240torquerod001-lores.JPG

My plan was for the final length of the rod to be 12 1/2 inches without the Rod Ends (according to Doug's optimum measurement). [EDIT] After installing them you might want to change that to 13.0 or 13.5 inches for more adjustment near the OEM rods. after installation of the shorter ones I found them too short, which tended to lower the pinion too much. There is not enough length to adjust up to the stock pinion angle, so I will be making 1 inch longer rods.

With the idea of welding nuts, I had some reservations about the small size of the Jam Nuts (not a lot of thread in a 1/4 inch thick nut), so my plan was to have TWO NUTS welded together. That allows for 1/2 inch of thread. If that's not enough (apparently it's not enough for some) then weld three together.
http://www.bartonharness.com/images/240torquerod002-lores.JPG

Then the welded nuts are inserted part way into the tube and welded to the end of the tube. The final length would then work out to 12 1/2 (my first try) to 13 1/2 inches (will be my next set).
http://www.bartonharness.com/images/240torquerod004-lores.JPG

This worked out very well and the semi-finished product looked like this below... (the top rod actually has the third jam nut installed and locked down)
http://www.bartonharness.com/images/240torquerod005-lores.JPG

Since I know very little about welding other than my high school metal shop experience 25 years ago, I took everything to a local muffler shop and they charged $35 to do it.
And the final painted torque rods below... waiting for installation.
http://www.bartonharness.com/images/240torquerod007-lores.JPG

Dave B.

[Hank Scorpio]

Looks GREAT Dave!!!

[boostdemon]

looks awesome, is it ready to be compiled and published?

[towerymt]

Another possible solution could be to buy the threaded inserts in a smaller thread size, drill them out to 12mm and tap with the proper thread pitch.

From the same site Doug sourced his parts, they sell aluminum link rods that already have threaded ends. I think they come in 1" increments, and I know I saw 12" and 13". With 5/8-18 threads, I can get a very heavy duty 1/2" bore heim joint with 5/8" thread...total cost would be $40 for the two rods, and about $32 for the two heim joints. Still doesn't solve the 1/2" vs 12mm issue.

I don't know how strong these rods really need to be, but I would probably want more thread than a 1/2" thick nut (or two jam nuts) can provide. I believe the threaded inserts have much more threading than 1/2" deep.

[MikeHardy]

another case of things being hard to do in uk due to the stupid price of stuff

aurora 0.5" high stength rod end. price + VAT is £32, so $60 for one of 4

[GTJordan]

Raven,

Get someone to buy them here, then mail them over to you. probably work out to be pretty cheap!

Jordan

[dbarton]

I don't know how strong these rods really need to be, but I would probably want more thread than a 1/2" thick nut (or two jam nuts) can provide. I believe the threaded inserts have much more threading than 1/2" deep.

Maybe they do provide more thread, but I don't think you'll find any nuts currently on your Volvo suspension that are much more (if at all) larger than 1/2 inch of thread. Those seem to be holding up ok.
Dave B.

[towerymt]

Maybe they do provide more thread, but I don't think you'll find any nuts currently on your Volvo suspension that are much more (if at all) larger than 1/2 inch of thread. Those seem to be holding up ok.
Dave B.

The torque rods are being pulled and pushed with significant force, enough to make the stock ones turn into ovals on the ends, even with stock bushings. There is significant force trying to rip the stud of the heim joint from of the end of the bar. That's what I'm concearned about, the unknown amount of force on the torque rods.

Most bolts are mounted in shear. What else would there be that pulls or pushes against a threaded nut like the torque rods would? Same goes for modifying a panhard rod using a nut welded on the end.

[boostdemon]

one swift smack with a hammer will oval the stock torque rod ends... that metals pretty flimsy. I guess the only way to be certain is to test it... im sure if anyone could break them it would be Dave.

[dbarton]

After putting together a second generation set of these... this time with bushings, I added the following new topic below.... sort of a continuation of this thread.
Dave B.
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=22620