B230FT sheetmetal intake

[nathaninwa]

i should have something in about 8 weeks....goong to get my motor all done and one test fit intake in a tb'ers car fisrt.

[J2_]

8valve goodness

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/8990/fotozri.jpg

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/561/foto3on.jpg

So far only had one smallproblem, and that is that the holes in the flange didnt line up with the studs in the head.
Drilled out the holes in the flange and now it's fine.

I'm of the shop, do cojones his headgasket and then hopefully move on with my own volvo.

[Cojones]

Sweet! Fill that enginebay up dude!

Good luck with both the shabby old cars!

[nathaninwa]

Lookin Good J2......let me know the holes you needed to open up. Ill fix my jig.

[Captain Bondo]

So far only had one smallproblem, and that is that the holes in the flange didnt line up with the studs in the head.
Drilled out the holes in the flange and now it's fine.



Do the runners line up with the ports then?

[nathaninwa]

They should be really close....I use a Felpro gasket to cleanup and match to....I also send that gasket with the intake. The problem i see is the stock head does not line up well with the gasket, so porting would be required anyways. Id be willing to bet that it was close, and took very little to get it to drop inplace. Maybe one drill bit size larger than whats there, but i send them tight anyways.

[noah244ti]

I noticed the same with mine. I just think they need to be slightly larger. The holes line up on the gasket, and the matching on the intake is PERFECT, so assuming the head is opened up to the size of the gasket, everything will be cherry.

One thing I noticed and changed was the throttle linkage plate. I noticed the TB would only open about 70 percent before the body of the heim would hit the nut on the TB shaft. Heres the stock over the new one I made

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f339/noah240t/IMG_4718.jpg

and New at WOT opens the plate a full 90* before making contact with the nut:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f339/noah240t/IMG_4720.jpg

Constructive criticism I hope! :)

[nathaninwa]

I will look into that.......maybe its how I have the spool bent over yours? Mine, J2, and Masteryoungs plate open to like 95%, and I bench test with my spool when I set them up? Could be spool differences too? I have ran into that, and I have seen multiple throttle arms on the 960 tb now......must be little differences adding up to a larger deal.

When I get Masteryoungs back today I will post pics of this setup. But I supplied and bent the spool myself.

[noah244ti]

Hmm odd. yeah I even considered bending the linkage rod just before the heim so it would be kicked upwards instead of horizontal, that would have also done the trick. I brought the manifold to work to play with it there. The building is full of engineers, welders and machinists and all were VERY impressed with your work. You should start charging 1k :-P

[unxetas]

You should start charging 1k :-P

shhh, hush it!

[noah244ti]

I have seen multiple throttle arms on the 960 tb now......must be little differences adding up to a larger deal.

Thats exactly what I was thinking, the stock ball pivot on my TB could have been placed differently on the arm than what you set it up with...

#### Just verified! have 2 TB's here, one with the ball slightly more offset than the other ####

[Natural244]

Saw sb765t's intake today, that thing is a work of art, beautifully done!

[nathaninwa]

Heres some pics of an intake here....I see you got it figured out tho.

Thanks again for the props guys

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/Mobile%20Uploads/0410001928.jpg

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/Mobile%20Uploads/0410001930.jpg

[str8krewzn]

Looks hott!!

[nathaninwa]

Looks hott!!

Yours is coming...just about to pull my engine!

[J2_]

@Cap'n Bondo; yeah the runners line up, it's like noah said, the holes just seemed a tad too small.

Noah, I had the same problem as you with the throttle not opening fully, so messed around with it, and bent the rod a little bit and now it opens fully.
Also I had to weld a piece of steel to the throttle spool bracket to get it to line up right, so yeah there must be some differences in that.

Time order some new fuel lines & fittings :)

[nathaninwa]

OK, so Im seeing that there must be some casting differences in the placement of the bolts. I still have that one manifold here from the last group that opening up the holes, and this one slipped right on.

So small variables here and there.

[nathaninwa]

Well the 16v intake is done for my car....going to build another one for a member and he will fit on his slanted motor. Im hopin there is hood clearance and only will need to taper the TB down a little.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/Mobile%20Uploads/0511002211.jpg
http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/Mobile%20Uploads/0511002320_0001.jpg
http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/Mobile%20Uploads/0511002317.jpg
http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/Mobile%20Uploads/0511002318.jpg
http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/Mobile%20Uploads/0511002314.jpg

[L8 APEKS]

Could be spool differences too? I have ran into that, and I have seen multiple throttle arms on the 960 tb now...

I pull tons of those TB's...the only difference I've seen on the arms are between 960 and 850 N/A. They are the same, save for the 960 arm is just about flat, and the 850 arm kicks out at a slight angle.

So...if having that little kick on the arm would help, seek out the 850 TB's instead. The rub there is that you'll still need the plate from the 960 because the 850 plates have restrictor wedges on them.

Looking good Nate!

[J2_]

What o-rings do you use with those injectors nathan ? I have a set of Presion 1000cc (same model), but the o-rings supplied with them didnt fit right and I got all kinds of fuel leaks.....

Then put in some bosch type, and the leaks were gone.. Let me know ;)

[nathaninwa]

I pull tons of those TB's...the only difference I've seen on the arms are between 960 and 850 N/A. They are the same, save for the 960 arm is just about flat, and the 850 arm kicks out at a slight angle.

So...if having that little kick on the arm would help, seek out the 850 TB's instead. The rub there is that you'll still need the plate from the 960 because the 850 plates have restrictor wedges on them.

Looking good Nate!


It must the 850....they are just simply larger, thats all i remember. One of the 8tb I have boughten had this thicker arm with larger pivot ball.

[nathaninwa]

What o-rings do you use with those injectors nathan ? I have a set of Presion 1000cc (same model), but the o-rings supplied with them didnt fit right and I got all kinds of fuel leaks.....

Then put in some bosch type, and the leaks were gone.. Let me know ;)

I have not seen the Presion injector, but in my testing days when I was first building, I found that gm used a slightly smaller diameter oring than Volvo and Ford. I never tried the gm one, but my 20 year old green tops I use for testing work. So maybe grab them orings that are working and swap them to the Presion?

And I am using stock Delphi orings in my setup....no problems with any.

[Coupe' de Grace]

he has the sickness

[Tom Wiley]

I want one of these...

http://forum.savarturbo.se/viewtopic.php?t=27561&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=972f40ad1d147f7011ae5b4ecfb7797e

[Homer]

I want one of these...

http://forum.savarturbo.se/viewtopic.php?t=27561&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=972f40ad1d147f7011ae5b4ecfb7797e

CFD or diffuser intake?

[Tom Wiley]

CFD or diffuser intake?

I was talking about the diffuser intake, but either would be okay.

[7 SEAT BOOSTBOX]

The big CI V8 voice in my head says "think if this guy actually put his effort into something that could make some real horsepower" but I am very impressed with the craftsmanship and ingenuity. What would it take for you tom make an intake for my 582CI big block Chevy? ;-)

[sb765t]

some of ya'll may remember this what this looked like (see page 20).

but here's what it looks like now. Though it's not perfect, it's got nice shine to it, and retains some of the mechanical marring inherent to the aluminum. No mirror finish, but nicely done. I'm pretty happy with my amateur results. Took a fair bit of time, and a lot of air tools, but I think it'll be worth it to not have just raw aluminum in the engine bay...

http://www.xoutpost.com/attachments/test-forum/42958d1277863352-test-pics-intake-top.jpg

http://www.xoutpost.com/attachments/test-forum/42959d1277863352-test-pics-intake-underside.jpg

http://www.xoutpost.com/attachments/test-forum/42960d1277863352-test-pics-intake-runners.jpg

http://www.xoutpost.com/attachments/test-forum/42961d1277863352-test-pics-intake-rail.jpg

anyhow...like I said...it's not perfect, nonetheless...i'm happy with the results. Now...to get it installed and working...

[DNAsEqUeNcE]

Looks good skool!

Blessed hand you have.

[nathaninwa]

NOW THATS ABOUT BADASS.....I know what it looked like when I sent it out.....almost makes me want to polish my 16v a bit. Kinda intake envious right now.:nod:

[sb765t]

well...if you've got about 12 spare hours on your hands...
and a pretty good selection of air tools, most specifically a die grinder, and quite a few little odd bits and polishing materials, you'll do pretty well. the big parts I did on a bench grinder with a buffing wheel and compound. it's not hard work, but it's time consuming, and messy.

but i'm happy :-) now i can get it in the car, at least for long enough to get you a back to back comparison of power levels. Which is my #1 goal. then I'm gonna tear things down, and get a new, serious, transmission installed.

[HonestJhon]

Last time I polished aluminum it wasn't "hard" but it was tedious and made my hands cramp up after I was working on it for a while. But that looks awesome. May need one of these manifolds at some point

[maxman142001]

did you bolt the intake up yet? my flange was alittle off..nothing a drill bit cant fit though

[nathaninwa]

did you bolt the intake up yet? my flange was alittle off..nothing a drill bit cant fit though

Thats weird, I used the same jig and it fits on my 8v head:e-shrug:

[sb765t]

haha, bolt it up...you're funny. I"ll get there...one day...lol.
Maybe this weekend...maybe next week. sometime relatively soon, but, i'm not exactly in a huge rush. it's too hot now to drive the car and enjoy it, and once it's bolted up, I gotta see about mr linuxman's schedule and head down to see him for a tuning/dyno session, so i can actually provide some real-world, back to back comparison on how much difference this new setup makes.

[Rockmonton]

No you have it backwards bud. #3 and #4 are getting forcefed air and will run lean.
1 and 4 will be rich. It's easy to flip flop I know i do it too now and then.

End mounted will make #4 lean.

IMO it's still better to do that rather than aim the throttle body right into a couple cylinders.

Also you can help matters via some plenum taper.

As you say though if you aimed the throttle at a 90 degree angle to the runners it'd be better from a distribution standpoint, if you can.

what about something dual plenum? ala audi group B/ skoda rally cars / r8?

[Group A]

what about something dual plenum? ala audi group B/ skoda rally cars / r8?
We just built a diffuser style manifold for a customers newer S40. Space was very limited so we had to countersink a tube into the plenum and the tube to the throttle body required a "donut" for the tight radius and it's also countersunk into the plenum.

http://www.r-sportinternational.com/customers/AaronM/aaronm23.jpg

[nathaninwa]

Well, I have a few orders for some intakes and a header.....but thought I would post this pic of the standard 8v intake (total mockup intake) for the 7/9 fitting nicely on a 2xx (this is an 88 245). I also tested a 16v intake and it will fit too, just the plenum needs to be a little shorter.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/Mobile%20Uploads/1002001207a.jpg

[FattMatt805]

nice. when i have more money than sence. im going to commision you to build me a b20 turbo intake/exhaust mani combo =)

[DNAsEqUeNcE]

hey, got a whole huge box of cast elbows that look to be that diameter, would be a whole lot better then that mitre cut. prob sell em to you for cheap

[dbh86]

hey, got a whole huge box of cast elbows that look to be that diameter, would be a whole lot better then that mitre cut. prob sell em to you for cheap

Only if they're about 30*...

[nathaninwa]

hey, got a whole huge box of cast elbows that look to be that diameter, would be a whole lot better then that mitre cut. prob sell em to you for cheap

Darn it Brett, I put the (total mock up intake) for that reason.....I bend all the runners on my little pipe bender I got for the real ones. I made that base about 10 months ago when i was getting started just to get the angle down.:-P

[DNAsEqUeNcE]

oh

:lol:

i R noob

[olov]

glad to see you're still pumping these out, i hope to order one soon, maybe a christmas present to myself :P

[nathaninwa]

Yep, just took a little time off to get my car built. Fiance wants carpet in the house....so I need to get back to what I do! Im working on a way better jig for the mill that just might bring the cost down a little too. I took the time over the weekend to mock up for 8v and 16v on both a 2xx and 7/9 so I can offer just about anything.

[nathaninwa]

Well, I worked on some 16 intake runners.....was able make a setup to form the bent runners in 2 halves which allows me to have a tapered runner as well. Now its just seemed down the center. A little tweeking, but Ill get it nailed.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/Mobile%20Uploads/1008001439.jpg

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/Mobile%20Uploads/1008001620.jpg

[doucheNozzle]

Nathan, the manifolds look gorgeous. Did you ever do a CFD on them?

[Alex Buchka]

CFD or flowbench testing won't say much. My seat of the pants, "cut and try" feeling is that these are much better than the stock manifolds they replace. That's about all that can be said of their relative performance.

That being said the craftsmanship is top notch here. Nathan, do would you mind sharing some details on the method you use for forming the 16v runners? Very curious about that.

[Captain Bondo]

CFD or flowbench testing won't say much. My seat of the pants, "cut and try" feeling is that these are much better than the stock manifolds they replace. That's about all that can be said of their relative performance.

That being said the craftsmanship is top notch here. Nathan, do would you mind sharing some details on the method you use for forming the 16v runners? Very curious about that.

Agreed on both counts. The 2 piece tapered, curved, oval runner are wicked.

[dbh86]

agreed on both counts. The 2 piece tapered, curved, oval runner are wicked.

+1...

[doucheNozzle]

CFD or flowbench testing won't say much. My seat of the pants, "cut and try" feeling is that these are much better than the stock manifolds they replace. That's about all that can be said of their relative performance.

That being said the craftsmanship is top notch here. Nathan, do would you mind sharing some details on the method you use for forming the 16v runners? Very curious about that.

Agreed on both counts. The 2 piece tapered, curved, oval runner are wicked.

Well I know they flow better. We saw that from his back to back dyno run with a car that wasn't much more than stock. My worry is that the runners are not getting equal flow. It can be very easy to accidentally lean out cylinder number 1 and not have any idea until you pop that cylinder.

[Captain Bondo]

Well I know they flow better. We saw that from his back to back dyno run with a car that wasn't much more than stock. My worry is that the runners are not getting equal flow. It can be very easy to accidentally lean out cylinder number 1 and not have any idea until you pop that cylinder.

While you are benchracing here are a few points to consider.

1) Intake manifolds with front mounted throttle bodies tend to lean out the rearmost cylinders, not #1. #1 ends up rich.

2) There's pretty much no way it'll be worse than the stock B234F throttle body in terms of airflow distribution and better in every other way.

3) What I can tell you based on my own real world testing is that they only lean out the rear cylinders with an un tapered plenum and the throttle body completely perpendicular to the runners. As soon and you tip the throttle body in just a touch the imbalance largely goes away. (although it varies quite a bit with small changes in entry angle)


This is based on a little fixture I made so i could blast compressed air into the throttlebody and observe the airflow out of the runners when building my own intake. Crude - but it at least supplemented "eyeballing it". It's as good of a test as any minus actually running the engine and looking at EGT and the sparkplugs IMO.

What does your fabrication experience and/or dyno tuning suggest?


4) My car just made 470whp with the same layout. Just a tad more than stock, and Nates made like 410. Neither of us have lit #1 on fire just yet.

My piston tops and plugs look pretty even. Maybe Nate can comment on his.

I'll trust plug readings from a real world dyno pull over CFD any day in tis application...

[nathaninwa]

ill take a snap shot of the dies i made up for forming the 16v runners....its kinda neat.
my 8v intakes are no difuser manifold but the way the plenum is tapered you can darn near all the intake runners.
my 16v manifold is of a log style....were getting pretty even temps across the header and not much change in plug colors.

[doucheNozzle]

While you are benchracing here are a few points to consider.

1) Intake manifolds with front mounted throttle bodies tend to lean out the rearmost cylinders, not #1. #1 ends up rich.

2) There's pretty much no way it'll be worse than the stock B234F throttle body in terms of airflow distribution and better in every other way.

3) What I can tell you based on my own real world testing is that they only lean out the rear cylinders with an un tapered plenum and the throttle body completely perpendicular to the runners. As soon and you tip the throttle body in just a touch the imbalance largely goes away. (although it varies quite a bit with small changes in entry angle)


This is based on a little fixture I made so i could blast compressed air into the throttlebody and observe the airflow out of the runners when building my own intake. Crude - but it at least supplemented "eyeballing it". It's as good of a test as any minus actually running the engine and looking at EGT and the sparkplugs IMO.

What does your fabrication experience and/or dyno tuning suggest?


4) My car just made 470whp with the same layout. Just a tad more than stock, and Nates made like 410. Neither of us have lit #1 on fire just yet.

My piston tops and plugs look pretty even. Maybe Nate can comment on his.

I'll trust plug readings from a real world dyno pull over CFD any day in tis application...

I'm not trying to argue the fact that it doesn't make anymore power. Again, that's already been proven. My worry goes back to proper flow and equal flow to each cylinder. I did say incorrectly about a lean #1 cylinder. You're correct, it would be too rich if anything.

The worry stems from a thread over on Miata Turbo. They were playing around in Solidworks doing CFD analysis.

Some pics:

http://www.boostedmiata.com/projects/intake/flow/tapered-nostacks.jpg

Adding stack such as Nathan's has:
http://www.boostedmiata.com/projects/intake/flow/Tapered-stacksfloor.jpg

Moving the TB back 2":
http://www.boostedmiata.com/projects/intake/flow/Tapered-stacksfloor-longerinlet.jpg

Arguably the best:
http://www.boostedmiata.com/projects/intake/flow/Tapered-stacksfloor-superangledinlet.jpg

Now this last seems to be the closest to Nathan's design, am I not correct? But notice how Nathan's throttle/inlet is parallel to the whole top of the intake manifold. How does this affect flow?

Yes, checking the plugs gives an idea about consistency so we should be able to argue that all four cylinders are getting proper flow.

[Karl Buchka]

There's no feasible way to accurately quantify the efficacy of these manifolds, but we can state with great confidence that they're better than stock.

Beyond that, this is a useless discussion. Vehicle manufacturers still struggle to create accurate models for manifold flow, and they have access to million-dollar testing facilities.

And for the record, the CFD package in Solidworks should stand for Colors For Designers. It's essentially useless for anything but making pretty pictures.

[Captain Bondo]

The last one is similar only in that at least the throttle body is not like, 1" away from the inlet to the #1 runner and at a right angle to it. No one should need a computer model to visualize the fact that it's not going to feed #1 very well and that's just a ****ty illogical design from the start.

Modeling also neglects pulse resonance and the fact the motors don't breathe in air from all 6 runners at the same time.

A model of static flow going through all of the runners all at once is just a crosscheck of "eyeball" design, just like my compressed air test. Not a real indicator of real world performance.

None of those flow models suggest any fatal destruction anyways and they're certainly far worse than Nathan's the last one excluded. They would have been better just using the last test and modifying it for different throttlebody angles.

Mine is more similar to the last one as well, angle was set using my compressed air fixture.

Plugs look quite even on my motor. 5 and 6 are slightly rich.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll214/WatsonFab/engine%20build/P4170604.jpg

[doucheNozzle]

we can state with great confidence that they're better than stock.

Come on Karl, I haven't been arguing that.

The last one is similar only in that at least the throttle body is not like, 1" away from the inlet to the #1 runner and at a right angle to it. No one should need a computer model to visualize the fact that it's not going to feed #1 very well and that's just a ****ty illogical design from the start.

Modeling also neglects pulse resonance and the fact the motors don't breathe in air from all 6 runners at the same time.

A model of static flow going through all of the runners all at once is just a crosscheck of "eyeball" design, just like my compressed air test. Not a real indicator of real world performance.

None of those flow models suggest any fatal destruction anyways and they're certainly far worse than Nathan's the last one excluded. They would have been better just using the last test and modifying it for different throttlebody angles.

Mine is more similar to the last one as well, angle was set using my compressed air fixture.

Plugs look quite even on my motor. 5 and 6 are slightly rich.

A couple of good points, but overall too many flaws in your argument here. Not worth pointing out.

[nathaninwa]

double

[nathaninwa]

So far with my staight type 16v inake....my plugs look great front to rear. Im about to pull the head so Ill post up a shot of the combustion chamber.

I like the CFD flow data....but I think we need to think about the fact that only one intake runner is in use while the manifold has 25psi in it. Combine that with exhaust/intake overlap that acutally starts to suck the air in, just how much difference can there be? A good look at this style of intake is the classic 4g63. From the factory it has a log manifold with tuned runners.....and the after market supports the same log runner intake. Those guys have lots of aftermarket support. Even the 1j and 2j series motors have a log style intake. And they are post engines over the 7m which had a over the top, center mounted plenum style.

Anyways....heres some pics of the tooling I made up.


http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/Mobile%20Uploads/1019001539.jpg

And then I still need to make up a jig to run them in the bandsaw so i dont cut my fingers off.

[Tom Wiley]

While you are benchracing here are a few points to consider.

1) Intake manifolds with front mounted throttle bodies tend to lean out the rearmost cylinders, not #1. #1 ends up rich.

2) There's pretty much no way it'll be worse than the stock B234F throttle body in terms of airflow distribution and better in every other way.

3) What I can tell you based on my own real world testing is that they only lean out the rear cylinders with an un tapered plenum and the throttle body completely perpendicular to the runners. As soon and you tip the throttle body in just a touch the imbalance largely goes away. (although it varies quite a bit with small changes in entry angle)


This is based on a little fixture I made so i could blast compressed air into the throttlebody and observe the airflow out of the runners when building my own intake. Crude - but it at least supplemented "eyeballing it". It's as good of a test as any minus actually running the engine and looking at EGT and the sparkplugs IMO.

What does your fabrication experience and/or dyno tuning suggest?


4) My car just made 470whp with the same layout. Just a tad more than stock, and Nates made like 410. Neither of us have lit #1 on fire just yet.

My piston tops and plugs look pretty even. Maybe Nate can comment on his.

I'll trust plug readings from a real world dyno pull over CFD any day in tis application...
Oh don't be sucha prick.

[DNAsEqUeNcE]

i wanna play!

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs445.ash2/71894_443200536559_543391559_6063931_2618059_n.jpg

[lipator]

i found this article recently
http://horsepowercalculators.net/intake-manifold-design/intake-manifold-design
best info on manifold design i've found

[Captain Bondo]

Pretty neat tooling Nate, thanks.

Want me to split some of this out into a seperate intake thread?

More space for Scotty to benchrace and Tom Wiley to complain. Not sure who let them out of off topic...

[Tom Wiley]

Pretty neat tooling Nate, thanks.

Want me to split some of this out into a seperate intake thread?

More space for Scotty to benchrace and Tom Wiley to complain. Not sure who let them out of off topic...

:owned: When tongue in cheek fails.

[Group A]

I've had a few people ask me about intake manifolds lately. Can you post or PM me some kind of pricing?
I looked a little bit, but 23 pages is a needle in hay stack...

[Captain Bondo]

:owned: When tongue in cheek fails.

They do have a ":-P" smiley as well eh?;-)

[Tom Wiley]

They do have a ":-P" smiley as well eh?;-)

I think I can find it:-P :-D

[doucheNozzle]

More space for Scotty to benchrace...Not sure who let them out of off topic...

I know, :wtf: It's like I do performance stuff on my car or something.

[Volvo Heretic]

Wouldn't it have been more realistic in that solidworks simulation to have blocked off three of the four runners and run the simulation 4 times, once for each of the runners?

Or, with an already built manifold, just bolt the intake up to a head and attach them to a flow bench and check each chamber?

And Nathaninwa, you should build a dimpled press form and preform your flat plates with a million golf ball dimples to aid boundery layer air flow. Smokey Yunick said so.:cool:

[megulon-7]

if Smokey said so, its true.

[nathaninwa]

Heres a shot of my cylinder head. Airflow seems pretty good to all cylinders with my log style manifold. The plugs look great and the pistons are even too.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/Mobile%20Uploads/1019002245.jpg

[nathaninwa]

Well, have some 8v intake started....2 are sold, anyone else want to get there name on one?

Alum shavings just everywhere

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101024_181715.jpg

Intake runners anyone?

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101025_193636.jpg

And the fruits of a few hours in the garage.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101025_193838.jpg

[Tom Wiley]

how much are the 8v heads selling for?

[JohnMc]

I'm wondering if I should get an 8V intake for my 16V, since I already have an adapter, and it and the hed have been ported out to match the round 8V intake. If I wer to put a 16V style intake on it, I'd probably need to get an un-ported head to go with it. But an 8V would be bolt on. Hmm...

[blkaplan]

I'm wondering if I should get an 8V intake for my 16V, since I already have an adapter, and it and the hed have been ported out to match the round 8V intake. If I wer to put a 16V style intake on it, I'd probably need to get an un-ported head to go with it. But an 8V would be bolt on. Hmm...

Ideally you would get a new 16v head but I am sure you could find someone to buy your 8v manifold if your not happy with the end result...

[towerymt]

I'm wondering if I should get an 8V intake for my 16V, since I already have an adapter, and it and the hed have been ported out to match the round 8V intake. If I wer to put a 16V style intake on it, I'd probably need to get an un-ported head to go with it. But an 8V would be bolt on. Hmm...
Get another 16v lower half, send to Kenny for porting, get 16v intake manifold, sell 8v-modified 16v as 240-drop-in.

[JohnMc]

I don't think porting the head to an 8V shape hurt the flow in the head at all - it just involved raising the top and bottom to the height of the 8V round runners. Of course, then the 8V intake had the sides widened a little as well.

This was blended into the intake and into the head over about an inch and a half.

But yeah, probably no real reason to keep on the 8V/16V mix at this point. At the very least, blending the two shapes leaves a bulge in the runners, even if it is smooth.

[nathaninwa]

Ill read through this when I get home. My pricing on the 8v is hopefully going to drop a little after I get a new jig for drilling the manifold for injector bungs. Cuurent is 685.00 shipped in us....complete bolt on with rail and gaskets. End user just needs to move there dipstick slightly and modify the throttle spool.

I'm thinkin my 16v pricing will be very close to thisn as well.

[ovlovder]

This may have been covered, but why did you mount the fuel rail to the plenum, isn't it traditionally mounted so the screws are pulling the rail into the injectors and keeping them seated in the bungs?

[woodrowstar]

i

[nathaninwa]

The curve of the runners and the angle into the port limits how far the rail can be brought down. To put some light on it, we run 43psi base pressure plus what ever boost pressure is ran, so we can see upwards 70psi plus in the rail, and the only thing used there is a small ss clip with a number 8 screw.

The only pressure trying to take the rail off is just the boost pressure pushing back....so 25psi spread over 2 1/4 bolts that have tapped and nutted.

I put close to a thousands miles on my 8v rail, and now almost 2 thousand miles on my same setup 16v motor, minus the nuts as the tab is blind tapped.

[nathaninwa]

Im excited about this, thought I would share. I was drilling the holes in the manifolds for the bungs by hand and a crude jig......finally bought some tooling and made a jig.....perfect holes that work everytime.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101031_154545.jpg

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101031_154654.jpg

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101031_163658.jpg

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101031_171039.jpg

[Poik]

Sweet, that's the drill with the built in step for the oring?

[nathaninwa]

Sweet, that's the drill with the built in step for the oring?

No, dont have one of them yet. Thats a .75 endmill for the manifold side and I use a couple drill bits and a reamer for the rail, and a 14mm endmill for the bungs,

[DNAsEqUeNcE]

Get another 16v lower half, send to Kenny for porting, get 16v intake manifold, sell 8v-modified 16v as 240-drop-in.

:)

[242Bleek]

Wow it looks like im gonna need nathan to make me an intake too...Looks amazing.

[nathaninwa]

got the 16v runners pressed out today, just need to polish off the jig to cut them tapered in the bandsaw and Ill be in business.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101103_182840.jpg

[FattMatt805]

sexay

[str8krewzn]

Thought i would post this here the before dyno without new intake and after...

1st dyno before @ 18-19psi
http://www.pbase.com/str8krewzn/image/119087082.jpg

2nd dyno after new Intake & Header @ 15psi (sorry i wish i could of hit same boost :oops:)
http://www.pbase.com/str8krewzn/image/130270319.jpg


Sorry i know its not much to compare
So this thing has alot more room cant wait until 60-1 and coil pack

Thanks Nathan GREAT STUFF!!!

[nathaninwa]

It will be great to see the final with proper timing. I bet tq comes up and you more peak rpm with it too. This is pimpin stuff......I bet were going to see a 40+whp bolt on with a worked over 8v. That's over twice what I got with my almost stock comparison.

Thanks for posting results Chris.

[husapatrik]

I like the link...to bad we cant read it! anyways, heres food for more thought. Are the intakes and IC being flowed with any backpressure like in a real world setup? If its just flowed theres no real pressure built with closed intake valves and such which would change the flow charactristics dramatically. I think when I get the header built I will run a probe in each cylinder....I feel thats the only true test instead of just measured open airflow.

Hello. Im a new member from Sweden, You can link the site in google translator and get a somehow good translation. savarturbo.se have a lot off advanced volvo tuning stuff.

btw im like your welding, how is your welding setup when you do this kind of work, do you pre heat the part? or you got a big amp welder, if you got the time to discribe how you work/weld i would be really glad. Im trying to learn to do that nice weld, think my biggest problem is that my ac-tig is only 180amp.

Best Regards

[nathaninwa]

Hello. Im a new member from Sweden, You can link the site in google translator and get a somehow good translation. savarturbo.se have a lot off advanced volvo tuning stuff.

btw im like your welding, how is your welding setup when you do this kind of work, do you pre heat the part? or you got a big amp welder, if you got the time to discribe how you work/weld i would be really glad. Im trying to learn to do that nice weld, think my biggest problem is that my ac-tig is only 180amp.

Best Regards

Thanks for checking out my thread....I have really enjoyed building these, and continue to look for ways to better them.

I generally dont preheat anything...I run a big amp welder that will put out 310amps, but run in the 250 range for most my welding. It has alot to do with the consumables that get used too, its an entire package that makes it work, with the welding style that each person may have.

If you have any specifics you want to ask, hit me up on a pm.

[940guy]

I wish i had the money to buy one and set it on my desk and look at it until i build the volvo:/ so sexy!

[Gralin]

I wanted to ask if anybody has seen these type of freeze plugs...I know all the problems that have been going and these seem to be an easy enough fix if the company makes the volvo size.....found on e-bay 290496039302
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Moroso-37850-Ford-351W-351-W-SVO-Core-Plug-Kit-Freeze-/290496039302?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43a2e9c986

[nathaninwa]

If I remember right there is not really enough room for the bolts to clear the cylinders....the freeze plugs are not in the center on all cylinders.

Anyways....got another manifold ready to go. This one turned out great for how cold it is in the garage at night now!

All gaskets are included.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101118_180752.jpg

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101118_180836.jpg

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101118_180934.jpg

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101118_181055.jpg

and came up with a slick way to use the stock fpr while still providing an aftermarket option later.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101118_181149.jpg

All boxed up, this one has 1/8 door skin on all side to handle the overseas shipping abuse.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101118_182538.jpg

[B-dub]

Sexy, sexy!

[YellowT5-r]

Nathan...International man of manifolds!

I've really enjoyed watching the refinements you've made to your design and fab techniques on these over time...and yeah...watching the bead-porn too (...and no, I'm not talking about the kind of bead porn that results in a set of Mardi Gras beads nobody wants to wear around their neck anymore either!)

[Roy 940]

If I remember right there is not really enough room for the bolts to clear the cylinders....the freeze plugs are not in the center on all cylinders.

Anyways....got another manifold ready to go. This one turned out great for how cold it is in the garage at night now!

All gaskets are included.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101118_180752.jpg

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101118_180836.jpg

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101118_180934.jpg

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101118_181055.jpg

and came up with a slick way to use the stock fpr while still providing an aftermarket option later.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101118_181149.jpg

All boxed up, this one has 1/8 door skin on all side to handle the overseas shipping abuse.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101118_182538.jpg


This is my intake...!:lol::-P:nod::rofl::oogle:

[badvlvo]

A couple people I know will be running your stuff on their cars, I look forward to seeing it in person.

This is one of the best threads on TB.

[Roy 940]

A couple people I know will be running your stuff on their cars, I look forward to seeing it in person.

This is one of the best threads on TB.

Maybe the best...?

[doucheNozzle]

Maybe the best...?

Just cause there's pictures of your intake manifold...

[badvlvo]

Maybe the best...?

Maybe. There are others, have you seen some of the build threads?

Doesn't matter, these manifolds are nice. Too bad he can't make them look stock so I can get past the smog nazis.

[Poik]

I still can't believe you make those flanges by hand.

[aplitz]

I still can't believe you make those flanges by hand.

It makes more sense when you finally come to the realization that Nathan is not a mere mortal.

[Roy 940]

Maybe. There are others, have you seen some of the build threads?

Doesn't matter, these manifolds are nice. Too bad he can't make them look stock so I can get past the smog nazis.

I've just see the TLAO intake...it look nice too, but a little bit gorgeous for me...;-)

I'll try the smog test with this intake, but I'll make it stealth...:ninja::ninja:

[2fast4u]

It makes more sense when you finally come to the realization that Nathan is not a mere mortal.

I have been trying to tell you guys this since day one!:lol:

[nathaninwa]

I still can't believe you make those flanges by hand.

HAHA....flanges are nearly 100 bucks and are mostly 3/8 alum. I build mine in about an hour from 1/2 6061. It puts keeps cost down and a little more money in my pocket. Im working with another member about refining my jigs to make things a little easier.

I have one to polish up on, then finish a header....

THEN
.
.
.
.
.
.
its 16v time baby.

[nathaninwa]

Maybe. There are others, have you seen some of the build threads?

Doesn't matter, these manifolds are nice. Too bad he can't make them look stock so I can get past the smog nazis.

swapping them out doesnt take too long!:oogle:

[nathaninwa]

It makes more sense when you finally come to the realization that Nathan is not a mere mortal.

You guys are crazy...I loved the picture of the robot welder in my build thread.

[Volvo Heretic]

Come on Nathaninwa, picture two of these with four S-shaped aluminum runners between the head and throttle bodys sandwiched behind your intake plenum.:oogle: Maybe even flip the right throttle body upside down and run both off of the same split cable throttle wire.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r123/VolvoHeretic/gmthrottlebody.jpghttp://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r123/VolvoHeretic/gmthrottlebody.jpg

[nathaninwa]

Come on Nathaninwa, picture two of these with four S-shaped aluminum runners between the head and throttle bodys sandwiched behind your intake plenum.:oogle: Maybe even flip the right throttle body upside down and run both off of the same split cable throttle wire.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r123/VolvoHeretic/gmthrottlebody.jpghttp://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r123/VolvoHeretic/gmthrottlebody.jpg

That would be cool...is there an advantage in having the butterflys in the runners than have it tradition infront of the plenum?

Im always game to try anything.:nod:

[morganpartee]

Why not just run 2 throttle bodies on a split plenum? It'd be different, lol

[Coupe' de Grace]

afraid to use mine right now; don't want to acquire a nice set of (skinny) S-beam rods :lol: it will likely go to the 262c build or something, definitely will be using it later on.

[DagazEnterprise]

Your welds are fantastic! I think i will be purchasing one of these in the near future

[Poik]

HAHA....flanges are nearly 100 bucks and are mostly 3/8 alum. I build mine in about an hour from 1/2 6061. It puts keeps cost down and a little more money in my pocket. Im working with another member about refining my jigs to make things a little easier.
Yeah I meant that as in I can't believe that flange was made by hand, because it looks so good. :cool:

[nathaninwa]

So I finished up with a huge job today, welded up an 8v plenum for somebody, and had a chance to sit down and get my jig all dialed in for cutting my intake runners for the 16v setups. A little clean up left, but happy with the results.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101121_203330.jpg

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101121_203057.jpg

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101121_203208.jpg

[poulrais]

Il will surely be one of your customers for a 16V mani over the winter. Let us know when you figure out the pricing and availability for these beauties...

[nathaninwa]

I have you in mind when I making parts....along with a couple others. The final price will be which Plenum I use for this. If its like mine...the price will be near the 8v, if its like the tapered 8v...might be a tad more. Theres alot more work going into the runners vs. the round pipe for the 8v intakes.

When it comes time to decide....Ill post here and have you guys help me choose.

[nathaninwa]

Well, I had a very productive weekend...and had a chance to work on the 16v tonight. Undecided about the plenum...with the pics I got of the engine bay this is going in, I might just mock something up and refit. The 8v plenums are so close to fitting...I might be able to work with a little and sneak by. Well see.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101128_221526.jpg

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101128_221442.jpg

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101128_221303.jpg

[dheming]

Nice welding there. Those new runners are sweet, looks like you got the forming process dialed in nicely. These intakes would look sick anodized black.

[nathaninwa]

I think Im going to go ahead and revise a couple 8v plenums...then kinda retool them so theyll be a little longer and work for both style intakes. Then all my throttle setups will work together.

Heres what I have done this week......had a request for ITB NA intake....parts only so I formed the transition from the oval to round in about 2.5 inches, and seem pretty dang smooth on the inside, nothing harsh at all.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101130_180004.jpg

[DNAsEqUeNcE]

seems with thicker material you have alot more room to play with in bending.

my intake needs flowbenching, bad. looks baller sir!

[nathaninwa]

I modded an 8V intake plenum tonight to work with the 16V base....need to redo the transition at the TB area, or it might just get welded on both sides and ported....either way, only one pleunum template needed for the bending.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101202_223004.jpg

[Roy 940]

I'm sure it's better now... Like every itme, great job!

[amazon bill]

Nathan

Zo! Whatchyudink dis 16v manifold flow like N/A? Hmmmmm?

Know de turbo app is de OG goal, but... turbo no be my goal?

Tink it fit de 240?

beel

[nathaninwa]

Nathan

Zo! Whatchyudink dis 16v manifold flow like N/A? Hmmmmm?

Know de turbo app is de OG goal, but... turbo no be my goal?

Tink it fit de 240?

beel

I'm pretty sure it will fit a 240. My 8v ones do and therws room I think. I need to fit this one again before I get to far.....and ill test fit the 240. The goal/is to have a universal intake.

I would thbink for an NA motor it would b e more upper rpm..... I bet a little low end torque is lost. You got a dyno in your area?

[JohnMc]

How about a 240 with, say... ABS? :oogle:

[nathaninwa]

How about a 240 with, say... ABS? :oogle:

Maybe, need to know the distance from the abs unit to the head, and where on the head it was measured.....take a pic! modify is one of my middle names....its only alum, things can always change:-D

[klr142]

I would thbink for an NA motor it would b e more upper rpm..... I bet a little low end torque is lost. You got a dyno in your area?I have a few dynos in my area........ ;-)

[JohnMc]

Now that I think of it, the ABS module is almost certainly out of the way.

http://webpages.charter.net/muddybiker/Volvo/Engine/IMG_4553.JPG

Might have to change to a remote reservoir power steering pump.

[nathaninwa]

Now that I think of it, the ABS module is almost certainly out of the way.

Might have to change to a remote reservoir power steering pump.

Maybe not...that abs unit is positioned just like my 940....but yes the PS pump could be a problem.....but Im setting up an 8v motor here to fit that pump as we speak. So maybe Ill mockup the 16v intake as well so I know my mount will clear.

[nathaninwa]

I have a few dynos in my area........ ;-)


I may just be getting a hold of you....

[klr142]

Cool. I may be able to get MS on my car soon too, we'll see what happens.

[doucheNozzle]

Cool. I may be able to get MS on my car

Wait. What? No.

[nathaninwa]

I went and fit the 16v intake on both a 240 and 740 today......some changes are needed to get it to work on the 740, but down right fits in the 240. Im going to mod the plenum a little (taper the plenum back wall, so its its brings the top level with the ground on a tilted motor) so it works on the 940 Im trying to get this out for, and hopefully will bring it down low enough on a 240 so it will clear a strut brace. Wont know till I try it again next weekend.

[nathaninwa]

So I ran across a discussion on the ECMLink board about intake manifolds.....guy represented an intake with 2 valves close....not sure why he would check and do all 4, but at least this shows even flow between 1-4.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/1.jpg

[Roy 940]

Hello all!

I finish to mount my fantastic intake in my car...

http://s846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/?action=view&current=MoteurVolvo015.jpg

http://s846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/?action=view&current=MoteurVolvo014.jpg

http://s846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/?action=view&current=MoteurVolvo013.jpg

Wow! I can't test it well 'cause here all the road 're snowy, but what I feel it's an enormous difference in low-end torque!!!

And the mid-power is incredible!

When the road are better, I'll make some tests drive...

Congrats Nathan!!! Your job is amazing!

[Roy 940]

Hello all!

I finish to mount my fantastic intake in my car...

http://s846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/?action=view&current=MoteurVolvo015.jpg

http://s846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/?action=view&current=MoteurVolvo014.jpg

http://s846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/?action=view&current=MoteurVolvo013.jpg

Wow! I can't test it well 'cause here all the road 're snowy, but what I feel it's an enormous difference in low-end torque!!!

And the mid-power is incredible!

When the road are better, I'll make some tests drive...

Congrats Nathan!!! Your job is amazing! :oogle:

[Roy 940]

http://http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/th_MoteurVolvo013.jpg (http://s846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/?action=view&current=MoteurVolvo013.jpg)

http://http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/th_MoteurVolvo014.jpg (http://s846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/?action=view&current=MoteurVolvo014.jpg)

http://http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/th_MoteurVolvo015.jpg (http://s846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/?action=view&current=MoteurVolvo015.jpg)

[Roy 940]

http://http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/th_MoteurVolvo013.jpg (http://s846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/?action=view&current=MoteurVolvo013.jpg)

[Roy 940]

http://http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/th_MoteurVolvo013.jpg (http://s846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/?action=view&current=MoteurVolvo013.jpg)

http://http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/th_MoteurVolvo014.jpg (http://s846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/?action=view&current=MoteurVolvo014.jpg)

http://http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/th_MoteurVolvo015.jpg (http://s846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/?action=view&current=MoteurVolvo015.jpg)

[Roy 940]

Sorry, I have a link problem with my stupid computer... Can you ( administrator ) delete this 3 last post, please?

Thanks!

[940guy]

i hope to see your pictures roy somehow lol.

[Roy 940]

i hope to see your pictures roy somehow lol.

I hope so...:grrr:

[linuxman51]

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/th_MoteurVolvo013.jpg
http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/th_MoteurVolvo014.jpg
http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/th_MoteurVolvo015.jpg
http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/th_MoteurVolvo013.jpg (http://s846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/?action=view&current=MoteurVolvo013.jpg)
http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/th_MoteurVolvo014.jpg (http://s846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/?action=view&current=MoteurVolvo014.jpg)
http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/th_MoteurVolvo015.jpg (http://s846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/?action=view&current=MoteurVolvo015.jpg)



There you go. now with links.

[Roy 940]

http://http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/th_MoteurVolvo013.jpg (http://s846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/?action=view&current=MoteurVolvo013.jpg)

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/th_MoteurVolvo014.jpg (http://s846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/?action=view&current=MoteurVolvo014.jpg)

http://http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/th_MoteurVolvo015.jpg (http://s846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/?action=view&current=MoteurVolvo015.jpg)

[Roy 940]

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/th_MoteurVolvo013.jpg (http://s846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/?action=view&current=MoteurVolvo013.jpg)
http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/th_MoteurVolvo014.jpg (http://s846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/?action=view&current=MoteurVolvo014.jpg)
http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/th_MoteurVolvo015.jpg (http://s846.photobucket.com/albums/ab26/Roy940/?action=view&current=MoteurVolvo015.jpg)



There you go. now with links.

Thank you very much for your help! I'm not able to use a computer ...:grrr::???::e-shrug::rant:

[linuxman51]

Thank you very much for your help! I'm not able to use a computer ...:grrr::???::e-shrug::rant:

it looked like it was sorta right, I think there were extra IMG tags that kept it from showing up.

[nathaninwa]

Wow, that looks great. Never thought about painting one before. Another member polished one, that looks amazing too.

[Roy 940]

Wow, that looks great. Never thought about painting one before. Another member polished one, that looks amazing too.

I try to make it as stealth as possible...:ninja::ninja:

And I like too the polished style, but it's too much shinny for the technical inspection here in Switzerland...!

[Roy 940]

I can test a little bit my car now... Wow, it pulls very stronger like before!!!
Much more torque from 2500rpm, the motor is many more "full", pulls very easy to rev limiter...and the sound! I like the new sound too much!!!
And one more point, the turbo spool like mad! I touch the gas pedal and it boost instantaneous!:hyper:

Completly amazing!!! I'm falling in love :love::love::love:

[poulrais]

Will have to think about something for the PS fluid reservoir on the 745... I don't want to delete the PS.

[morganpartee]

Will have to think about something for the PS fluid reservoir on the 745... I don't want to delete the PS.

It's pretty far out of the way, seems like?

[aplitz]

I'm thinking about having mine anodized or powder coated. The intake looks great in stealth mode Roy.

[morganpartee]

Get it anodized!

[Captain Bondo]

Depending on the type of filler rod used, anodizing could make for a really terrible looking intake.

[klr142]

Depending on the type of filler rod used, anodizing could make for a really terrible looking intake.You are required to explain your thoughts, please. :-P

[nathaninwa]

I have an example ill post up when I get home. But from what I understand....the color is already in the alum.....its the chemicals they use to get it out......since I use 4 flavors of alum.....we would get 4 different colors.

[Volvo Heretic]

How about translucent candy powder coating?
http://www.powdercoatingit.com/
http://www.paintwithpearl.com/candystore.htm

[Captain Bondo]

Nah, the color is a dye. How the dye impregnates the material changes its shade, which is based on the metallurgy of the part.

The welds, the heat affected zones around them, and the base metal itself all have different metallurgy and will color differently. Sometimes it works out ok and sometimes it looks like crap or doesn't work at all on some sections.

What base metal and filler rod are used affects how close the match will be.

[DNAsEqUeNcE]

mine should be a clowncar then

[nathaninwa]

Heres the pc....some 6061 alum angle welded together by what I assume would be 5356 filler in a wire feed. This is a vendor supplied part that we remake for out application....but the color differeces are apparent.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101208_135138-1.jpg

[Roy 940]

Heres the pc....some 6061 alum angle welded together by what I assume would be 5356 filler in a wire feed. This is a vendor supplied part that we remake for out application....but the color differeces are apparent.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101208_135138-1.jpg

That's exactly why I don't anodise it... And for me, the painting style is more "stockish" look.

I make the test with some people who don't know Volvo motors, and they don't see my black painted intake...:ninja: But I made the same test in alum look, all the people see it and say : it's nice but not stock!!!:nod:

[DagazEnterprise]

i doubt it's anodized, looks like alodine, alodine will conduct current and weld somewhat fine, anodized wont, either process would have black welds if 4043 were used, 5356 was used

[Captain Bondo]

i doubt it's anodized, looks like alodine, alodine will conduct current and weld somewhat fine, anodized wont, either process would have black welds if 4043 were used, 5356 was used

Disagree there. 4043 provides a much better color match in my experience. It's the only thing worth having 4043 around for.

[DagazEnterprise]

all the aerospace work i've done, if 4043 was used it would turn both alodine and anodize black, infact all aerospace aluminum that i've touched tubing wise is welded with ams4190 - 4043, never get to see the end product though

[Captain Bondo]

You're right, my brain is not engaged today it would seem.

:cheers:

[nathaninwa]

What's alodine? I sanded on that stuff and it smells like anodizing.

[2fast242gt]

lol you would sniff it.

[badvlvo]

I'm thinking about having mine anodized or powder coated. The intake looks great in stealth mode Roy.

Black anodized would look cool as hell on your car.

[aplitz]

Black anodized would look cool as hell on your car.

Enabler. I'm thinking of having the manifold coated too. I did Jet Hot on my NA header, is there a better choice out there?

[Cameron]

Enabler. I'm thinking of having the manifold coated too. I did Jet Hot on my NA header, is there a better choice out there?

For the intake manifold powder coat works just fine.

[badvlvo]

Enabler. I'm thinking of having the manifold coated too. I did Jet Hot on my NA header, is there a better choice out there?

I like the anodized look for the aluminum, but you could have both coated so they match. I like the Jet Hot, it has worked for me in the past. But black anodized intercooler pipes, BOV, intake and other parts would be the blingingest anti-bling I can think of.

And yes, enabler is right. I will always be that way when it comes to building a car the best way possible.

[Captain Bondo]

Satin finish ceramic coating would be way more durable, ensure everything matches, and probably cost about the same.

[nathaninwa]

Anodizing is out for my manifolds, unless you spend hella time prepping the alum.....from all the working, tumbling of welding, stretch marks from the bender...I 3m scotch brite the manifolds....so you would miss out on the that cool grain pattern of the raw type anodizing.

[nathaninwa]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7mPw4MMhak

Thats a sweet link to a flowed cfd intake of single plenum design.....throws alot of benchracing out the window I think. Reminds me of a Slinky

[Captain Bondo]

That's wicked. Really does go to show that the dynamics with valves events factored in are quite different, and IMO shows that in general, a manifold with an end mounted throttle body that is perpendicular to the runners will have pretty decent flow distribution as long as the plenum is reasonably sized.

[DNAsEqUeNcE]

Hmm, I like that.

I hope mine ends up around the same. Could be horribly off though, :-P

[nathaninwa]

There were also some all runner cfd's done on difuser plenums. The one in question had a pc of 2.5 tube ran into the plenum behind the tb........holes in it facing away from the intake runners.....a heart shaped plenum.

Dist was even across all cylinders......but the 3d model showed loss of velocity as compared to the single plenum with end mounted tb.

[Uberhenrik]

Can someone post a video with sound? I would like to hear what it sound like:)

[J2_]

it doesn't really sound different because of the intake.

at least mine doesnt.... the exhaust mani I had made did change the exhaust not quite a bit

[Uberhenrik]

it doesn't really sound different because of the intake.

at least mine doesnt.... the exhaust mani I had made did change the exhaust not quite a bit

What kind of air filter do you use?
Original or open filter?

[HonestJhon]

Vht wrinkle paint. Black. Maybe blue.

[nathaninwa]

got the final 16v jig pattern done. This is for a port matched opening.....I like to run my runners to the flange base so Ill widdle another out thats about 1/8 larger all around for building manifolds.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101217_182932.jpg

[nathaninwa]

Well, I got 2 flanges ready today, way safer with the new way with the new jig....my fingers dont cringe anymore!!!

And I finished the experimental 16v intake today (need to tap the fuel rail for clips and inlet fittings) but it all worked out OK. Im thinking Ill keep the same angle on the runners and add some material to the plenum legs....meaning the plenum will just come oubaord about 1 to 1.5 inches. This one is fine, but I would like more volume in front of number 4 runner. Well have some dyno info on this one too, so well have a good comparo over the stock 16v one that alot of people run.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101218_161134.jpg

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101218_161228.jpg

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101218_161331.jpg

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101218_161419.jpg

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101218_161511.jpg

[JohnMc]

:nod:

[morganpartee]

If you don't think it's safe for any power, I'll take it for a biiig discount =p

[B-dub]

Badass.

[qwkswede]

looks cool man. Nice work as always.

So does this one fit your 940 with the upright engine? Or is this the setup for a tilted engine.

[nathaninwa]

This fits a 740 at the yard, tilted engine, with my 16v setup head I use. Its a tight fit....but its there. I may work on the angle a little, and get it down just a hair.

This is a pc of wood across the fender....Im betting on room under the hood. Well see how this install gos.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101211_094235.jpg

[DagazEnterprise]

you are an excellent TIG welder on aluminum, sometimes you get crap for welds and have to fix them, your welds are perfect, most people don't get it when it comes to aesthetics of welding but you do, Kudo's to you! nice work!

[nathaninwa]

you are an excellent TIG welder on aluminum, sometimes you get crap for welds and have to fix them, your welds are perfect, most people don't get it when it comes to aesthetics of welding but you do, Kudo's to you! nice work!

Thankyou....comment much appriciated.;-)

[Lucky the Smiling Pirate]

my only concern would be the angle of the TB for clearing the alternator...hoods can be dented;-)

[nathaninwa]

Ill dig up the stock alternortor mounting plate and use a gm unit I have kickin around here......there about the same size. Im going to venture out and say that it will fit. In reference to the 8v manifolds....they sit a little lower....and many pages back I said I needed to install the shortest belt I could to drop the alternator down to clear the charcoal fittings. So Ill post up a picture tonight of that fitment.

Other than that, this manifold just needs some fuel fittings and its ready to ship.

[nathaninwa]

Thats of room Lucky for the alternator. This is a GM unit, just about the same body size as a Volvo, and all the way colapsed there is 2.5 inches to the tb baseplate.

Oh, and your fuel fittings are here....Ill get this boxed up and itll be ready to ship out.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101220_181228.jpg

[Lucky the Smiling Pirate]

:dance:

[740volvo]

how much would you charge me to make one of those for my b230ft:)??? it looks amazing!!! money talks:)

[JohnMc]

I really need to address the exhaust side of my 16v motor first, but I suspect you'll get tired of making these before people get tired of buying them. So is there a dibs line I can get in? 16V in a 240. There's the power steering reservoir in the way, but I could easily PnP my way to a remote reservoir setup to makeroom for this.

[nathaninwa]

So....I'm just about done being able to mod my 8v intake runners. The oval transition is near 2.5 inches long. I'm in the process of fabbing more plenums.....both for 8v and a few with longer legs for the 16v setup.

I really enjoy building these. I just about have my final 8v header design done....ill then set my jig up to bolt off the block and start doing 16v headers too.

I'm going to take about a 40 day break and tweek on my car.

As far as fitment in a 240.....the one pictured does clear the power steering setup. So hopefully these can be all universal like the 8v fitments. I might have a picture of it in the 240....ill see and post later if I do.

[DNAsEqUeNcE]

keep it comin friend :) you're doing a stellar job!

Imma get some pricing on the tubing.

[nathaninwa]

This is a little offtopic....but johnmc is going to need one of these. The current project guy needed to run a power steering pump with integral resavoir in his 240....but also needed it to clear the intake. So after some shipping....some flip flopping of the mounting hardware....few cuts on the bandsaw and some AC welding. I ended up with this. Its driven off the forward most pulley and seems with a shorter than I have in stock in the garage belt, this is going work really slick. Ill have some finished pics tomorrow.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101222_220932.jpg

[blkaplan]

FYI you can run the factory non a/c PS bracket with the intergrated resevoir in the lower position if you modify one of the holes on the bracket slightly.

[nathaninwa]

FYI you can run the factory non a/c PS bracket with the intergrated resevoir in the lower position if you modify one of the holes on the bracket slightly.

This is what hear.....the member that has asked me to build it says there are not to many of them for sale, and when they are up forsale, they cost alot of money.

I wonder if the stock setup would clear the tb area on my intake? Would be neat to move it up about a half inch and see if I can fit an alternator under there too.

[JohnMc]

I was just planning on switching to the remote reservoir style pump. I'm keeping the PS and the AC.

[nathaninwa]

OK, well here is the bracket.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101223_132838.jpg

[DNAsEqUeNcE]

that's so elegantly simple!

[blkaplan]

This is what hear.....the member that has asked me to build it says there are not to many of them for sale, and when they are up forsale, they cost alot of money.

I wonder if the stock setup would clear the tb area on my intake? Would be neat to move it up about a half inch and see if I can fit an alternator under there too.

i can test fit it if you send me a manifold

i think they are still available via the dealer for a reasonable sum. I was lucky and kept looking in the junkyards until i found one.

[aplitz]

For what it takes for Nathan to make one of his brackets, finding an original bracket is a waste. I've been looking in the yards for literally years and never found one. I also try to avoid the dealer when possible, plus look at the solid bling.

[2fast242gt]

theres one in the yard by me right now want one?

[DNAsEqUeNcE]

with haste son!

[nathaninwa]

Aarons right, something about TIG welded Billet!

[aplitz]

theres one in the yard by me right now want one?

Those brackets are one of the Volvo parts you should always pull if you personally need it or not. I've had threads in wanted off and on for several years (I quit looking when I ditched the PS, then started again when I went quick steer), and people claim to have one. Then they remember its from an older car, or they threw it away, or who knows what. Nathan did a really nice job on the bracket, even better than I imagined. If he had a few around to sell, they would make life easy for people putting a nice car together.

[nathaninwa]

So I get to build a new Vert 16v intake manifold for myself. I have all the fabbed work designed out in my head, but would I see a benefit from going to a 70mm tb over the 65mm tb the 960 has that I was running? I do have a stroker with cams and head work done, so off idle flow could be what Im after.....but what about wot? probalbly not much change there. I found some universal billet units in either 65, or 70mm.

[DNAsEqUeNcE]

90mm? :-P

[nathaninwa]

90mm? :-P

HAHA....no! I would still like to use my 3 inch intercooler piping.

[olov]

that bracket is sexy. is it held on by 2 or 3 bolts?

[nathaninwa]

that bracket is sexy. is it held on by 2 or 3 bolts?

right now Im using all 4 bolts. I might be able to cut off the top one....but then it might look goofy with how the casting is on the block.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101224_095300.jpg

[DNAsEqUeNcE]

4 is fine, easier to modify the bracket and move stuff up/down if needbe (and add support for other components (:oogle:)

I still have that shortsnout m90...... LOL

[Gralin]

So I get to build a new Vert 16v intake manifold for myself. I have all the fabbed work designed out in my head, but would I see a benefit from going to a 70mm tb over the 65mm tb the 960 has that I was running? I do have a stroker with cams and head work done, so off idle flow could be what Im after.....but what about wot? probalbly not much change there. I found some universal billet units in either 65, or 70mm.

I've wanted to know about running 2 smaller ones and then use a progressive linkage...Have less flow for lower rpm and then work like a old 4 barrel, wide open would be free flow for top power. All air would come through a single large air flow meter so the computer should fine.

[nathaninwa]

I was able to mod the 8v intake runners for 16v use....came out really clean.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101229_163212.jpg

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101229_163257.jpg

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101229_163338.jpg

[klr142]

What's the length of the runners from the flange surface to the end of the "air horns"? Center to center sort of stuff? If you know or can measure, also the distance to the center of the valve head?

[nathaninwa]

I will measure an intake and head I have here later tonight for you. I was able to nail my rpm range with my 16v setup with some math like what your thinking.

[klr142]

I will measure an intake and head I have here later tonight for you. I was able to nail my rpm range with my 16v setup with some math like what your thinking.Very cool and very cool! Thanks man!

[nathaninwa]

Intake runners from tip of stack to gasket base is a shy 5 inchs in the center of the arc, and the valve center to the gasket surface on head is just over 4.5 inches. I use 1.5 pipe which is just under 1.625 diameter.

[Group A]

FYI you can run the factory non a/c PS bracket with the intergrated resevoir in the lower position if you modify one of the holes on the bracket slightly.Are you guys referring to the b230 or b21/23 style bracket?
I'm guessing the b230 since they are hard to find and the b21/23 versions are a dime a dozen.

[Gralin]

Are U heating the pipe before U reform the 16v shape on the runners?

[lookforjoe]

If I remember right there is not really enough room for the bolts to clear the cylinders....the freeze plugs are not in the center on all cylinders.

Anyways....got another manifold ready to go. This one turned out great for how cold it is in the garage at night now!

All gaskets are included.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101118_180752.jpg


Superlative Work!!!

When do you develop a 5 cyl version :)

[nathaninwa]

Are U heating the pipe before U reform the 16v shape on the runners?

Nope, doing it cold. I try to do most everything that way.....I need to heat the U shaped runners that I weld down the center so theyll form closer to 180*, but other than that, no heat.

[nathaninwa]

Superlative Work!!!

When do you develop a 5 cyl version :)


When a 5 cylinder ends up in my garage for about 2 weeks :oogle:

[lookforjoe]

When a 5 cylinder ends up in my garage for about 2 weeks :oogle:

Dang. Wish I were closer :roll:

[nathaninwa]

So heres for all you 16v guys. I want to start workin on my car, but the bases are the messiest part of an intake build.....well the stack are too, but thats down the road. So I got a bunch of flanges done today. So progress is being made.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20110101_115451.jpg

man what a mess!

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20110101_115357.jpg

[aplitz]

Those look awesome, its still so cool that you make them by hand. Now get the kids out in the garage to clean up and earn their keep.

[242Bleek]

Looks amazing. I cant wait:)

[klr142]

Intake runners from tip of stack to gasket base is a shy 5 inchs in the center of the arc, and the valve center to the gasket surface on head is just over 4.5 inches. I use 1.5 pipe which is just under 1.625 diameter.Nice, now where'd I put that calculator... Do you have an estimate for plenum volume?

[amazon bill]

Soon's I git a "watertight" 3d model I'll have that.

You lookin for about 60% of base displacement? A Helmholtz resonator?

Don't know what yer readin, but neatstuff here;

www.grapeaperacing.com

beel

[nathaninwa]

Nice, now where'd I put that calculator... Do you have an estimate for plenum volume?

Plenum volume is estimated at 1.5 engine volume right now. I should duct tape over an intake I have half made and fill it with water and get a more accurate measure.

[lookforjoe]

I've been reading/rereading this thread, and a number of the linked threads, having decided that it would be a nice challenge to make a custom manifold. In my case, with the transverse mount, I plan on using a design that is closer to the stock ME7 turbo manifold, but with end mount TB, equal length 6" straight runners (1.75" ID), and a tapered squared-off plenum with close to 210 CID in volume. Flange-to-plenum depth at the TB end cannot exceed 10" max due to space considerations - so I figure 4" plenum there, tapering to about 2.5" at the back end.

Looking at yours & many other designs, the bellmouths are typically centered in the back wall - I may need to offset mine towards the top due to space constraints - is this a definite no-no? For instance, if my wall is 4", I would offset them so that the outer are only 1/2" from the top (2" runner, 1 1/2" bottom space, 4" total).

[nathaninwa]

I really dont think the air cares that much...as long as were not in the dead space of the corner area....I do it more for asthetics. I think my new 16v intake has them up high like your saying as well. I should post some of them here. (some are in my build thread)

If you need help making some parts or anything....just give a shout.

[lookforjoe]

I really dont think the air cares that much...as long as were not in the dead space of the corner area....I do it more for asthetics. I think my new 16v intake has them up high like your saying as well. I should post some of them here. (some are in my build thread)

If you need help making some parts or anything....just give a shout.

Thanks!

I was considering just making it as a mockup & then sending it to you to make a "real" one if it seems to make a positive difference :)

[nathaninwa]

Bump to let members know I have not abandaded this project....just keeping busy on my car and its getting close to being driven again. I have about 3 weeks left and Ill be back on the final developement of the 16v plenum and runner design, fitment on the 8v jig setup.

Ill be doing a 16v header for a 240 as well....so keep you eyes posted!

[Wiley]

MMM... That intake is sexy. Beautiful welds!

[shaved240]

how are you cutting those flanges?

[JohnMc]

Bump to let members know I have not abandaded this project....just keeping busy on my car and its getting close to being driven again. I have about 3 weeks left and Ill be back on the final developement of the 16v plenum and runner design, fitment on the 8v jig setup.

Gigitty.

Ill be doing a 16v header for a 240 as well....so keep you eyes posted!
Gigitty. Any idea on the style? I'd like something that puts the turbo in more or less the 'oem' position if possible - down low on the side of the motor. And leaving clearance for the A/C filter/accumulator.

[blackv]

I want to see some dyno # looks good

[nathaninwa]

I want to see some dyno # looks good

Just pm'd you with that info......

And just letting people know I have started some of the small parts, like vacuum blocks, throttle linkage and various small bits and also setting up to form a bunch of plenums.

[nathaninwa]

I have been slowly making parts for these guys. Been spending random one hour here and one hour there at a buddys shop forming plenum parts and all the prefab work on all the small parts like throttle brackets and what not. Once my car is done, Ill be concrntrating on the 16v intakes......I have to test a preform on a plenum before I bend the rest, but its looking good.

[MadDog_945]

what was a complete 16v plenum in $$ again?

[poulrais]

Think he said around $655 + shipping on another thread but correct be if I'm wrong Nathan! What do you mean by "complete"?

[MadDog_945]

What do you mean by "complete"?


:oogle:

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz88/nathaninwa/IMG_20101118_180752.jpg

[nathaninwa]

^ Bingo. Depending on my supplies at the time.....I can do a 960tb but them are 35 extra (depending on what I can buy them for).....but its complete as far as gaskets, throttle linkage, fuel rail and fittings (15.00 extra for the adapted metric fitting to use the stock fuel line). Its all setup for an auto tranny and Im lookin into a cruise control mount. The end user needs to mod there spool a little, and use the left handed linkage end for the throttle.....Its pretty much all there, ready to bolt on.

I found on my car, I needed to bend the dipstick tube towards the firewall a little and I had to run a smaller belt on the Alternator.