BNE update: Quick Steer Roll Correction Prototype

[Michael Garvin]

Ordered 1 set for now. Give someone else a chance. Order the second set later. Thanks Ben for all your work.

[volvogeek]

Crap, taxes aren't coming back as soon as I'd hoped, I'll have to wait until the production run. Boo.

[RvolvoR]

ordered

[Chrisco]

Any discount on shipping to Canada? 'Cause if so, I'm in.

[aplitz]

ordered

[blkaplan]

Any discount on shipping to Canada? 'Cause if so, I'm in.

Shipping to Canada is 26 dollars.

[Chrisco]

Ordered! :hyper:

[dbarton]

Ordered! Please ignore the first order that I canceled. Wrong credit card was registered.
Thanks,
Dave

[blkaplan]

Ordered! Please ignore the first order that I canceled. Wrong credit card was registered.
Thanks,
Dave

no problem.

thanks guys! you are really pulling through.

[towerymt]

post a group buy thread.

http://forums.turbobricks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=19

[blkaplan]

Questions for preorder or comments can go here

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?p=3030171

[Texas240]

Does this change any of the camber at all?? And what order do the ratio begins of the 3 bolt holes

[blkaplan]

Does this change any of the camber at all?? And what order do the ratio begins of the 3 bolt holes

The shorter the steering arm the quicker the steering. So the furthest in is fastest,

It does not change camber inherently but it will change your alignment

[Wagner]

That looks good. 700-series, when?

[GrandmaSideways]

Want one for my 945. Biggest gripe I have had since the beginning is the slooooooooooooooooooooooooow rack!
Get in gear y0! :lol:

[blkaplan]

That looks good. 700-series, when?

They shouldn't take too long to get designed now that I have the 200 series design validated and have found a good manufacturer for the part.

I won't be able to get to the design for a bit though, I got to get caught up on shipping some orders out that got back logged when I was trying to get all these details nailed down. Maybe I can work on the design in a month or so?

[boosted12a]

dam! already blew my tax money. anyone wanna buy an sks? ill be in for a set of these when the fundage arives. need to sell some dunk

[Wagner]

They shouldn't take too long to get designed now that I have the 200 series design validated and have found a good manufacturer for the part.

I won't be able to get to the design for a bit though, I got to get caught up on shipping some orders out that got back logged when I was trying to get all these details nailed down. Maybe I can work on the design in a month or so?

Sounds good, i'll definitely be waiting.

What i really like about the design is the fact that the outermost hole lines up with the stock steering arm's hole (right?). That makes it possible to put a spacer between the parts and tie them up with a bolt. That should make even the inspection techs happy at the annual MOT. They are pretty up-tight about modifications to the steering system in here. What i'm trying to say is that keep that feature in the 700-series version as well.

[blkaplan]

Sounds good, i'll definitely be waiting.

What i really like about the design is the fact that the outermost hole lines up with the stock steering arm's hole (right?). That makes it possible to put a spacer between the parts and tie them up with a bolt. That should make even the inspection techs happy at the annual MOT. They are pretty up-tight about modifications to the steering system in here. What i'm trying to say is that keep that feature in the 700-series version as well.


Yes, It is nice to be able to brace off the stock steering arm, that was something that I planned for. That way there is 0 arguments about attachment strength, even with the most critical scrutineers

[quillc]

Pics of the installed prototypes?

[TIPSP]

Pics of the installed prototypes?

This with out the bolts?

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/121090521.jpg

[SteveMD]

Tried to order but google server error ftl.

[blkaplan]

Tried to order but google server error ftl.

I just tried it and everything seems to be fine, try it again

[SteveMD]

I just tried it and everything seems to be fine, try it again

Worked this time, thanks. Get busy at the forge.

[towerymt]

Worked this time, thanks. Get busy at the forge.
He's from a caste system.

[RedFridge]

Well done on making some moola on the stuff you fab.
Beautiful work Mang!

[blkaplan]

Well done on making some moola on the stuff you fab.
Beautiful work Mang!


hah, i am bit far from making any money on these things. If I can sell my full first run, it would probably workout to making 3 dollars an hour... for the time i have into them.

Got to move some major quantity to make it worth while... will see. Seems to be pretty popular by volvo standards so far.

[quillc]

I meant installed on the car.....

[blkaplan]

Update for all you guys.

The wax injection tooling is complete, the ceramic shells for the casting is being made.

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/123581321.jpg

The Wax casting models

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/123581346.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/123581462.jpg

[boosted12a]

ok, when do we get em?

[linuxman51]

ok, when do we get em?

you don't. you're off the list.

[Wagner]

you don't. you're off the list.

I think he means the wax versions. Let him have those.

[Karl Buchka]

Wicked. What kind of alloy are you having them cast in?

[blkaplan]

wicked. What kind of alloy are you having them cast in?

4140

[blkaplan]

ok, when do we get em?

supposed to be done with casting and machining in 2 weeks so the preorder stays open a little longer then scheduled.

[MrBill]

i was told april 15 delivery.

unacceptable. too bad I already rated the transaction as excellent on google checkout

[blkaplan]

i was told april 15 delivery.

unacceptable. too bad I already rated the transaction as excellent on google checkout

you were told date is subject to change too. :-P

[boosted12a]

you don't. you're off the list.

lokkhere buddy! just cause your slush box grandpa mobile is fast dosent mean anythgin if its broken.......all the time......

[Captain Bondo]

These are sick. Nice work man.

[RvolvoR]

hurry up...i want my ****

[GrandmaSideways]

The design was subject to change as well.
WAX IT IS! At least they will be delivered by the 15th.

[Mueller]

I like those...a lot :)

[MrBill]

one more day hurry the **** up

[Magnum TE]

Wow guys, all this hurry up talk is coming off rather childish. It sounds like a bunch of elementary school kids in line at the ice cream truck. Calm down a bit, he said another 2 weeks... so you aren't getting your parts till May first at best so calm the feck down. If Ben comes back in 2 weeks and says another 2 weeks, then start with the tears.

Whether you're serious or playing around it's just making you look bad. This is some serious custom sh!t that you're getting for a deal, the trade of is having to wait for it. Sorry you won't be able to show them off at the Davis show and yes I'm bitter that he dosen't have a 7/9xx series model out yet :-P (but don't let me buy them Ben not until I get my t5 stuff)

[Chrisco]

If there's one thing I've learned from past group buys, it's that they're never ready by the date stated. Not a complaint. I never expected it all to be done by the 15th. My 242 isn't on the road until mid May anyway.

[towerymt]

one more day hurry the **** up
your ****box run yet?

[blkaplan]

Wow guys, all this hurry up talk is coming off rather childish. It sounds like a bunch of elementary school kids in line at the ice cream truck. Calm down a bit, he said another 2 weeks... so you aren't getting your parts till May first at best so calm the feck down. If Ben comes back in 2 weeks and says another 2 weeks, then start with the tears.

Whether you're serious or playing around it's just making you look bad. This is some serious custom sh!t that you're getting for a deal, the trade of is having to wait for it. Sorry you won't be able to show them off at the Davis show and yes I'm bitter that he dosen't have a 7/9xx series model out yet :-P (but don't let me buy them Ben not until I get my t5 stuff)

Everyone thats posted is just posten some (b.cosby) razzle dazzle zizzle bizzle (/b.cosby)

Its all in good spirits, peeps just excited for teh hawtness thats all.

[villageidiot8709]

ben, did you ever try the inside hole for steering ratio/feel?

[volvogeek]

Hot diggety, I might be able to get in on this early after all.

[Magnum TE]

Everyone thats posted is just posten some (b.cosby) razzle dazzle zizzle bizzle (/b.cosby)

Its all in good spirits, peeps just excited for teh hawtness thats all.

ok, yeah sorry i was in a bad mood when i posted.

[MrBill]

your ****box run yet?

no. but when it does I'll be ballin outta control without these QUICK STEER ROLL CORRECTION PROTOTYPES THAT WERE PROMISED TO BE DELIVERED TODAY.

Lookin forward to it :nod:

[pwschuh]

razzle dazzle zizzle bizzle qwizzle nizzle

Now I'm hungry for Jello Pudding Pops.

[blkaplan]

ben, did you ever try the inside hole for steering ratio/feel?

no I haven't, I was waiting to install some other components before I went ahead and changed it over.

I think the prototype inner hole might be a bit fast (2.1) the production inner will be nice (2.5)

I am really digging the 2.8 I am at now.

[RS1]

Tires not touching the inner wing at full lock? I have 7.5" et20 with 225/45-16 and they do.

[reeferman]

no highspeeed testing next weekend:-(

[blkaplan]

no highspeeed testing next weekend:-(

yea, sorry. Even though its a little delayed from earlier estimates... 40-45 days to produce a casting with tooling, heat treat, post machining, and plating is still pretty damn good. :nod:

[villageidiot8709]

for future reference, is the material similar in strength to the original? what i want to know is will it hold up to the caveman w/hammer method of tie rod end removal?

[blkaplan]

for future reference, is the material similar in strength to the original? what i want to know is will it hold up to the caveman w/hammer method of tie rod end removal?

Its the same alloy its just cast versus being machined from a forged block. So its not quite as strong a full billet part.

I would recommend some type of tie rod puller instead of the hammer smack method but they should hold up to it.

[boosted12a]

if your not replacing the tierod, just use the 2 bolts that attach the arm to disco the part

[doucheNozzle]

so this is similar to this right?

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=202271

[adrianpike]

so this is similar to this right?

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=202271

Solves a similar problem, but the BNE's have an awesome extra feature in the quick steering holes.

[doucheNozzle]

Solves a similar problem, but the BNE's have an awesome extra feature in the quick steering holes.

:rockon:

[blkaplan]

Ceramic Shells ready for the tasty 4140 filling.

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/123764284.jpg

[Yea, Right]

You spelled tasty wrong

[blkaplan]

You spelled tasty wrong

you spelled yeah wrong :-P

[GrandmaSideways]

Shouldn't it be 'spelt'?

And I can haz 4 940?

[SteveMD]

for future reference, is the material similar in strength to the original? what i want to know is will it hold up to the caveman w/hammer method of tie rod end removal?

I have this and it's always worked well for me. Mine is by Old Forge but looks the same as this KD-tools pic.

http://www.toolsource.com/outer-remover-tool-p-105705.html

http://www.toolsource.com/prod_medium/105705.jpg

[dbarton]

Ceramic Shells ready for the tasty 4140 filling.

So those shells are destroyed for each pour? Or do they split in half somewhere?

[blkaplan]

So those shells are destroyed for each pour? Or do they split in half somewhere?

For each part, a wax part is made. Then it is covered in a ceramic shell. Then the ceramic is fired, hardened and the wax melts out. Then the ceramic is filled with the metal for the part in our case its steel. The steel cools and the ceramic is shattered and the part remains.

So to get one steel part you need 1 wax and 1 ceramic part.

[MrBill]

neat

[Mueller]

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9716TvPb-OQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9716TvPb-OQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

[doucheNozzle]

cool vid.

Love the avatar BTW. Good show.

[WeezilUSA]

Is this your first cast part you are offering BNE? Pretty cool! I can't wait to get mine!

[blkaplan]

Thanks for posting that vid. Its great explination.

[Mueller]

Is this your first cast part you are offering BNE? Pretty cool! I can't wait to get mine!

I think this is a huge step in the Volvo performance world, anyone can make something from billet, but to go this route takes it up to another level !!!!!

I have not ordered those (yet) but I am pretty damn excited to see the progress I see !!!!

[PRVersion]

Shouldn't it be 'spelt'?

no.

[MASS]

so this is similar to this right?

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=202271

Thoose items were originally group-A parts and the the bump steer spindles replaced pretty often so I´ve heard.

I am much more interested in Bens part due to stability (much less flex I presume) and durability.

[blkaplan]

Is this your first cast part you are offering BNE? Pretty cool! I can't wait to get mine!

Yes the first venture into the world of casting. Its pretty cool. I have a bunch of ideas for other items that could be made via casting.... Only problem is quantity usually isn't there to make it worthwhile.

[WeezilUSA]

Yeah it looks like tooling up for something like this definitely needs some bigger buy in than doing one off billet parts.

[The Aspirator]

Extraordinarily cool! But after watching that vid, how the heck is casting cheaper/easier than machining it from solid? Granted, it is a very complex part and you want to make it one piece instead of two, so I can see it making sense.

Just curious in rough numbers, how much more expensive (or not) is it to have that part cast instead of fully machined? Rough percentages would work fine.

[WeezilUSA]

Any word on production?

[Cameron]

...quantity usually isn't there to make it worthwhile.

Such is the story all too often with awesome Volvo parts :-(

[Mueller]

Read about this company today in Racecar Engineering, CRP Technology (http://www.crptechnology.com/sito/) , you can spend some serious time reading through the website with all the info and case studies, very cool processes that I'm sure you'd get a kick out of...anyway, they talk about a new spindle for NASCAR applications (previous a welded up unit, now a cast piece, see link below)

the new and the old have a slot for the KPI, just thought you'd find that interesting if you didn't know about it already (I prefer your method for street car that won't get inspected as often as it should)

http://www.crptechnology.com/sito/images/PDF/cs/CS_Spindles.pdf

[Dauntless]

So a couple of questions. How low does the car need to be before these are a good idea?

Any reason why this wouldn't work on RHD cars?

And for a DD, would 20% or 40% be better with manual steering and a smaller (355mm) steering wheel?

[villageidiot8709]

So a couple of questions. How low does the car need to be before these are a good idea?

Any reason why this wouldn't work on RHD cars?

And for a DD, would 20% or 40% be better with manual steering and a smaller (355mm) steering wheel?

1) probably 2 inches lower than stock
2) nope
3) i would bet that 40% would be real tough to turn at low speeds but i don't think anyone has tried that combination yet so no one really knows

[blkaplan]

Steel samples, post casting mid machining

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/124501086.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/124501096.jpg

[Michael Garvin]

So shipping out mid day tomorrow?;-)

[blkaplan]

So shipping out mid day tomorrow?;-)

hah, they are coming along nicely now. They decided to make a total of 7 fixtures to do post casting machining so it should go pretty quickly now that they have them all done.

[adrianpike]

Should be in my hands and on the hoopt by next week, amirite? :badboy:

[TIPSP]

:spin: getting really excited :hyper:

waitting is the hardest part

[coldfusion21]

Is this all done in the US? I assume so, but just curious. What kind of tolerances do the castings hold? I know investment casting can be really precise for casting, but wasn't sure if that was always the case.

[blkaplan]

Is this all done in the US? I assume so, but just curious. What kind of tolerances do the castings hold? I know investment casting can be really precise for casting, but wasn't sure if that was always the case.

The castings are fairly good and the critical surfaces and holes are machined so most of the critical hole positions should be within .002" of their design position.

[SteveMD]

You guys forget BNE still has to torture test these on his Domo-wagon. He may also have some secret local testers, too. :ninja:

[VolvoForLife]

hah, they are coming along nicely now. They decided to make a total of 7 fixtures to do post casting machining so it should go pretty quickly now that they have them all done.

7 fixtures for post machining? On my 5-axis milling center that would be 1 fixture and voila.

Anyway I love your work and dedication to produce these kind of parts for such a small community. How you are able to make profit just amazes me.

[Wagner]

It's almost as though they were professionally made. :-D

[blkaplan]

7 fixtures for post machining? On my 5-axis milling center that would be 1 fixture and voila.

Anyway I love your work and dedication to produce these kind of parts for such a small community. How you are able to make profit just amazes me.

I wish I had my own 5 axis... that would be sick

Yes a 5 axis could do the job but the shop doing the machine work only has a 6 axis mill and then the bunch of Machining Centers so with a good fixturing they can use a 3 axis machining center to do the repetitive post casting finishing work. Which leaves the 6 axis open for more important jobs, like making mold tooling and more complicated parts, etc...

Still trying to make a profit, I will be amazed too :lol:

[towerymt]

Do they have gum in the center?

How many licks does it take to get to the center of a roll correction spacer?

[blkaplan]

Do they have gum in the center?

How many licks does it take to get to the center of a roll correction spacer?

Yours will, Bazooka Joe.

[MASS]

http://www.samsteffansson.se/products/images/Volvo/200/VO0023.jpg

Why not use something simliar to strengthen the quick-steer roll adapter even more ? A spacer between original spindle and the adapter.

http://ic2.pbase.com/t6/21/464321/4/75893766.QSPcnbPB.jpg

[blkaplan]

http://www.samsteffansson.se/products/images/Volvo/200/VO0023.jpg

Why not use something simliar to strengthen the quick-steer roll adapter even more ? A spacer between original spindle and the adapter.

http://ic2.pbase.com/t6/21/464321/4/75893766.QSPcnbPB.jpg

There's no reason not to unless you use the stock steering ratio. Was considering including a bolt and spacer if people wanted to use it.

[boosted12a]

There's no reason not to unless you use the stock steering ratio. Was considering including a bolt and spacer if people wanted to use it.

ipretysure 99% of everyone would want that spacer/bolt. i know 100% of the jake johnsons want it.

[RS1]

Why should the new 4140 arm be weaker than the stock cast arm? You don't need it, cut the arm and save some unsprung weight.

[blkaplan]

Here are 2 photos of the finished samples that should be inroute to me in a couple hours.
Once i get them I will do some testing, verify strenght and fitment and the production lot should follow shortly.

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/124629610.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/124629791.jpg

[SteveMD]

:dance:

[boosted12a]

just a thought...any redesign on the short struts if people are using these? mabe reduce the cost some or not.

[blkaplan]

just a thought...any redesign on the short struts if people are using these? mabe reduce the cost some or not.

These compliment the short struts very nicely. No reason to design the short struts that I can think of.

Might offer a discount package combined w/ short struts

[Michael Garvin]

Samples = WOW.

Ready for Carlisle? Save me shipping.

[blkaplan]

Samples = WOW.

Ready for Carlisle? Save me shipping.

not a chance at this point :grrr:

[Captain Bondo]

Looks awesome. I should have gotten in on this!

[blkaplan]

Looks awesome. I should have gotten in on this!


Its still not too late. Better act now!

Will trade for front bumper / manifoldz

[doucheNozzle]

Not to kill a dead bird, but what are we looking at for eta now? Will the spacers be available when these are?

[blkaplan]

Not to kill a dead bird, but what are we looking at for eta now? Will the spacers be available when these are?

From what I have been told, they have tooling dialed in to produce a higher yield per batch of parts. So when the go to do the production batch it should go quickly.

They also have all the finish machine fixtures finished to do finally machining after the casting process. That also makes things go quickly. A couple pics of the fixtures.

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/124643199.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/124643230.jpg

Dont know an exact ETA but it shouldn't be too long at this point. Most of the work is done.
I am aiming to have spacers available close to the same time

[sdturbo]

At this point, I am excited to got them at this point.

[blkaplan]

At this point, I am excited to got them at this point.

the point of the point is the point of that point. Do you get the point of the other point?

Perhaps I should point you in the direction of the point.

point point point dot point

[Group A]

I keep seeing you talk about spacers. Are you talking about spacers that go with these for people that are extremely lowered?

[blkaplan]

I keep seeing you talk about spacers. Are you talking about spacers that go with these for people that are extremely lowered?

Yes, an additional spacer to lower the assembly for people that are lower then 2" or for others that want to experiment.

[adrianpike]

Yes, an additional spacer to lower the assembly for people that are lower then 2" or for others that want to experiment.

Price/availability on the extra spacer?

[towerymt]

Price/availability on the extra spacer?
You're not that low.

[blkaplan]

Price/availability on the extra spacer?

price will be cheap, availability.... soon.

[adrianpike]

You're not that low.

that's what she said, and the workbench has new struts sitting on it because if I can't tuck rim I'm not sure if life worth's living.

[TIPSP]

Ben, I will need the spacers...

Thanks

[DNAsEqUeNcE]

if I can't tuck rim I'm not sure if life worth's living.

madness!

[klr142]

that's what she said, and the workbench has new struts sitting on it because if I can't tuck rim I'm not sure if life worth's living.You needz bigger rimps. Lemme know if you want some 19s.

[adrianpike]

You needz bigger rimps. Lemme know if you want some 19s.

you know that I do, which is the crux of the problem here.

[klr142]

How wide are your 18s? Hmmm.... Haha, don't get your hopes up, but I am really wanting to grab something different. Eventually.

[Group A]

Pretty sure Badger qualifies for needing the spacer... :-P

http://www.tuff240.com/images/badger/badgerlms01.jpg

http://www.tuff240.com/images/badger/badgercontrolarm.jpg

[blkaplan]

Pretty sure Badger qualifies for needing the spacer... :-P

http://www.tuff240.com/images/badger/badgerlms01.jpg

http://www.tuff240.com/images/badger/badgercontrolarm.jpg

holy slant arms batman

[Group A]

Hehe, I should put it on the drive on lift and actually measure the angle. Prolly around 40*.... lol.

[adrianpike]

How wide are your 18s? Hmmm.... Haha, don't get your hopes up, but I am really wanting to grab something different. Eventually.

8"s, so enough to at least get some decently wide rubber up under there, but no tub-worthy ish.

[blkaplan]

Hehe, I should put it on the drive on lift and actually measure the angle. Prolly around 40*.... lol.

your not THAT good. Looks more like 20ish degrees to me

[Wagner]

Hey Ben, do you have a model for the 700 already cooking on your Solidworks? This damn €uro is rapidly loosing it's purchasing power, man.

And do you know how small of a wheel still fits with these?

[blkaplan]

Hey Ben, do you have a model for the 700 already cooking on your Solidworks? This damn €uro is rapidly loosing it's purchasing power, man.

And do you know how small of a wheel still fits with these?

There will be a 700 series model, but its far from being ready.

With using the 20% quicker hole, These fit fine inside a virgo and corona. Using the stock steering might reduce some of the clearance but using the quicker holes provided plenty of room.

[Captain Bondo]

Its still not too late. Better act now!

Will trade for front bumper / manifoldz

I keep missing you on aim. I need some of dem rear spring perches too.

[adrianpike]

Yeah, I need to chat with t3h bn3 about how much the extra control arm spacers as well as some seat brackets would add to my order and if it would save any shipping.

[Group A]

your not THAT good. Looks more like 20ish degrees to meThey are at exactly 20*, nice call from an awkward pic. ;-)

[Tom Wiley]

that's what she said, and the workbench has new struts sitting on it because if I can't tuck rim I'm not sure if life worth's living.

sigged

[thebringer]

Why not use something simliar to strengthen the quick-steer roll adapter even more ? A spacer between original spindle and the adapter.

There's no reason not to unless you use the stock steering ratio. Was considering including a bolt and spacer if people wanted to use it.

are you testing without a spacer?...my first thought was if if you dont gonna use the standard ratio you might aswell cut of the standard arm? :roll:

[blkaplan]

are you testing without a spacer?...my first thought was if if you dont gonna use the standard ratio you might aswell cut of the standard arm? :roll:

I did a major test without a spacer/bolt Saturday night... :grrr:. The part performed great. Bent tie rod, Bent Spindle, Bent control arm.... Roll correction appeared to be fine. Will post pictures soon.

[blkaplan]

o

[thebringer]

I did a major test without a spacer/bolt Saturday night... :grrr:. The part performed great. Bent tie rod, Bent Spindle, Bent control arm.... Roll correction appeared to be fine. Will post pictures soon.

oh, interresting...:drama:

[blkaplan]

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/124873258.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/124873285.jpg

[thebringer]

well that was a hell of a test, I red the other thread. that strut brace did its work for sure. glad your ok.

[Benjam83]

Sorry to threadjack.

Where'd you get that swaybar?!?!


Edit: Nevermind, dumb question... Anyway, from what I can see of it, it looks cool.

Just out of curiosity, do you have any information on it? Specs, pics, etc.? How does it compare to stock or IPD?

[blkaplan]

Sorry to threadjack.

Where'd you get that swaybar?!?!


Edit: Nevermind, dumb question... Anyway, from what I can see of it, it looks cool.

Just out of curiosity, do you have any information on it? Specs, pics, etc.? How does it compare to stock or IPD?

Its a 32mm tubular bar that i made for the car. Was thinking about offering some thing similar but never got around to it.

Its probably similar to a 28mm solid bar but its lighter.

[FunkyStankyChicken]

Damn i was bummed when Simon and Kenny destroyed their cars and i dont even like 7 series. This just blew me away. Glad you are ok Ben.

[boosted12a]

its just a bad month for bricks in general.......my flathood got rear ended last thursday, shes totaled!

[SteveMD]

its just a bad month for bricks in general.......my flathood got rear ended last thursday, shes totaled!

Damn, man. Pics so we can properly mourn?

[doucheNozzle]

its just a bad month for bricks in general.......my flathood got rear ended last thursday, shes totaled!

Uhoh. That makes 4 volvos. That's not good. It usually happens in 3s...

[blkaplan]

Ok, game plan is we will install the cast samples on Towerys 244 race car and then race the car on saturday and sunday.

Here are some photos of the samples

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/124977216.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/124977218.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/124977220.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/124977222.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/124977224.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/124977225.jpg

[adrianpike]

mmmmmm

[towerymt]

Guess I'll need to invest in the proper tool(s) used to separate the ball joint and the tie rod from this spacer if/when I remove it in the future. Probably shouldn't hammer on it like the stock stuff

[blkaplan]

A recap of this weekends activities.

Friday night we installed the samples onto Towerys 87 244. We chose the fastest steering ratio option and gave it a wooden plank toe alignment. As was the case when I installed the initial prototypes the car had considerable toe out. After cranking the tie rods a few turns they aligned out nicely.

Install went pretty smooth, One thing to note is that the backing plates should be modified when installing the new parts to provide clearance for the ball joint. This can be done fairly quickly and easily with either a cut off tool, a hammer and some cold chisels, or some vice grips to manipulat the backing plate.

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/125131572.jpg

There was an 2 day divisional autox event that I codrove in with Towery. The components held up nicely without any issues. At the end of the event I checked the fastening bolts and noticed that one side had loose bolts so I retightend them. I dont know if towery installed that side with enough inital torque but i think it would be a requirement at the minimum to use some high or medium strength loctite and lock washers on those bolts. The best solution would be loctite and safetywire. The factory bolts have threadlocker applied to them.

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/125131707.jpg

Towerys car picked up some good pace after installing these and the short struts

@ the last autox event he was 2.9 seconds behind Brian in the Civic on a ~ 43 second course

This event @ he was 1.9 seconds behind Brian in the civic on the second day on a ~50 second course.

Thats a good amount of time savings for an autox

[dbarton]

http://www.pbase.com/blkaplan/image/125131707.jpg

And look how nice and level that control arm is. That's beautiful!

[boosted12a]

sounds good! once i get another 240 ill buy some........

[H3dlund]

Nice! Do you have any plans to fabricate the same for 740?

[blkaplan]

Nice! Do you have any plans to fabricate the same for 740?

Yes i sure do

[H3dlund]

Yes i sure do

:zeeall:

[volvogeek]

Damn. Want but will probably have to wait until I spring for short struts.

[volvoboy67]

What is Towery's feedback regarding handling improvement and steering response?

[blkaplan]

What is Towery's feedback regarding handling improvement and steering response?

He has made some comments in his project thread

I've decided not to use the quickener after trying these Kaplhenke spacers. The reason is steering speed/ratio.

The 1.5:1 quickener should transform 3.5 turns lock-to-lock to 2.3 turns. The quickest setting that we used this weekend is too quick in my opinion, and it's supposedly 2.5 turns. I wasn't taking my hands off the wheel and I could still get through a fast slalom. Before, I'd be overlapping and taking a hand off the wheel. Or toss and catch the wheel.

It was easy to scrub the front tires in a tight turn, so it will take some getting used to. I'm going to try the 2.8 setting and if I can still get through slaloms with two hands on the wheel, I'll leave it. The big tires and quicker ratio puts quite a load on the pump/rack/belt, and the 2.5 is pretty twitchy on the street, so I want to slow it down a bit. No reason to make it quicker than it needs to be.

I cone'd away my best runs on day 1 that cost me 2nd place and a trophy spot. Was in 4th place after day one and ended up 3rd behind an STi and an Evo. The car showed good pace for being on dead tires from '06 and it was pretty easy to drive fast when I didn't overdrive it

[klr142]

I want geometry correction comments in addition to the quicker steering comments. Any?

[blkaplan]

I want geometry correction comments in addition to the quicker steering comments. Any?

I already made comments after i installed the first prototypes on my wagon. If you want more from towery you will have to ask him.

[TIPSP]

So, does this mean you are giving the manufactoring peoples the okay to finish?

[klr142]

I already made comments after i installed the first prototypes on my wagon. If you want more from towery you will have to ask him.I saw yours(thanks), and I did ask him(in his thread). Still waiting for the answer. :-P

[volvoboy67]

Thanks for the copy form Towery, Ben.

[doucheNozzle]

Damn. Want but will probably have to wait until I spring for short struts.

Har!

[towerymt]

Try it out and see if you like it. It's different. I changed a lot of stuff in a short period of time.

[SteveMD]

Try it out and see if you like it. It's different. I changed a lot of stuff in a short period of time.

I won't be changing anything on mine other than new BJ's and tie rod ends, TRW and Moog, respectively. Ordered TRW tie rod ends from FCP, got Moog, go figure...

[Dr Dokeh]

Yes i sure do

:clap:

[blkaplan]

I won't be changing anything on mine other than new BJ's and tie rod ends, TRW and Moog, respectively. Ordered TRW tie rod ends from FCP, got Moog, go figure...

TRW is probably the best... factory supplier. but Moog stuff is typically probably just as good.

[WeezilUSA]

So how much longer are you planning to "test" these on the plowery mobile?

[blkaplan]

So how much longer are you planning to "test" these on the plowery mobile?

I am happy with them, I need to make a couple notes and drawings for the final production run to ensure a problem free fitment for everyone but as far as i am concerned they are ready.

[doucheNozzle]

I am happy with them, I need to make a couple notes and drawings for the final production run to ensure a problem free fitment for everyone but as far as i am concerned they are ready.

Yay! Finally.

[WeezilUSA]

Updates?

[adrianpike]

Updates?

Any chance I'll get them before the 20th? :spin:

[towerymt]

Any chance I'll get them before the 20th? :spin:
You will get them before a 20th.

[WeezilUSA]

:dance::spin::dance:

[adrianpike]

You will get them before a 20th.

Didn't the KTP hear that at one point? :-P

[Captain Bondo]

Didn't the KTP hear that at one point? :-P


Hehehe... "Triangles Unlimited - A wholly owned subsidiary of UNITEK&ST Ltd...":lol:

[BuuBBa]

Any updates concerning parts for 700/900?

[blkaplan]

Not yet, but now that I have the first batch in house and starting to ship them out I will spend some time on those and get the ball rolling

[adrianpike]

Got my tracking number, unfortunately not going to make it in time for the autox this weekend, but there's one left in the season that I'll get them in by, so reviews from a real person, not a robot, will be forthcoming.

[F13ND]

a real person.

Debatable

[towerymt]

not a robot
undebatable

[adrianpike]

undebatable

"some say his heart doesn't pulse like a normal man's, instead it hums, hearkening back to it's K-jet roots. All we know, he's called the plow."

[towerymt]

http://www.pbase.com/towerymt/image/128509976.jpg

[spruill244]

im buying a set FOR SURE

[towerymt]

im buying a set FOR SURE
they're really only for lowered cars

[spruill244]

hahahahaha

[adrianpike]

hahahahaha

no, seriously, it would be pretty silly to put them on your lifted 240

[spruill244]

u guys make me lol

[F13ND]

You make me cry.

[TIPSP]

Looks dope for sure. Can't wait to get them in.

[i drift volvos]

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e324/masterchimself/battle%20wagon/7784d3e3.jpg

[towerymt]

http://www.pbase.com/towerymt/image/128665116.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/towerymt/image/128665119.jpg

:e-shrug:

[Jerd]

What?

[stylngle2003]

coated then machined?

[blkaplan]

coated then machined?

machined then plated.

[ovlovder]

Any word on these for 7xx?

[WindowsBreakerG4]

:nod: I want some too

[Hodginsa]

Me thinks I should have purchased these when I had money.. damn

Ill make a "how to" video for these, if I can get a discount haha

[Hodginsa]

Dp.

[pwschuh]

Installed my first side tonight. No issues. I elected to remove the existing steering arm with a sawzall. From my postal meter: weight of new Triangles piece - 2 lb 6.7 oz. Weight of pieces removed (steering arm removed and redundant bottom strut mount plate) - 1 lb 8 oz. Total additional weight per side: 14.6 oz.

[drftvlvo240]

Installed my first side tonight. No issues. I elected to remove the existing steering arm with a sawzall. From my postal meter: weight of new Triangles piece - 2 lb 6.7 oz. Weight of pieces removed (steering arm removed and redundant bottom strut mount plate) - 1 lb 8 oz. Total additional weight per side: 14.6 oz.

i did mine about a week ago, they feel awesome,,,you will def enjoy.

[dbarton]

Installed my first side tonight. No issues. I elected to remove the existing steering arm with a sawzall.

Haven't done mine yet. Did you remove the existing arm because it could get in the way, or just because?
Dave B

[blkaplan]

Haven't done mine yet. Did you remove the existing arm because it could get in the way, or just because?
Dave B

It can make servicing a little easier and gives some weight savings but its not required. They can be installed and fit without modification to the spindles.

[towerymt]

I still have the stock steering arms. Not a requirement to cut it off. Use a wrench on the outer tie rod.

[doucheNozzle]

Haven't done mine yet. Did you remove the existing arm because it could get in the way, or just because?
Dave B

It's much easier for when you go to pop out the tie rod end.

[pwschuh]

Haven't done mine yet. Did you remove the existing arm because it could get in the way, or just because?
Dave B

Just because. It's a cleaner install and it's unsprung ounces.

[Captain Bondo]

So is the next stage to incorporate this into a complete spindle that bolts up so a standard coilover from like a 240sx?

A guy can dream right?:-D

Hehehe...

[Poik]

Or just convert to a 240sx spindle and have a better bolt pattern and better shock options :P

[morganpartee]

AND BE MORE JDM!

Cause that's cool.

[blkaplan]

Or just convert to a 240sx spindle and have a better bolt pattern and better shock options :P


240sx spindles suck, they need to be modified and reinforced.

Better shock options? We have tons of shock options. We have more shock options then your wallet can shake a stick at.

Its no problem to get Motons, AST's, Ohlins, 28 series Konis... If you want to get much past the performance of a 8611 double adjustable they are all going to be made to order anyways so off the shelf application isn't important

[doucheNozzle]

I think he means better shocks as an option. We need Xidas.

[Poik]

Well I'm using E36 spindles, which already place the steering and control arm about 1.5" lower IIRC. Also lots of shock options, but I'm just making my own with 8611 anyways.

If I get another 242 for my girlfriend to autocross next season I'll be getting a pair of these for her though.

[blkaplan]

Well I'm using E36 spindles, which already place the steering and control arm about 1.5" lower IIRC. Also lots of shock options, but I'm just making my own with 8611 anyways.

If I get another 242 for my girlfriend to autocross next season I'll be getting a pair of these for her though.

I hope your going with the m3 variant. mucho better then the standard e36...

[blkaplan]

I think he means better shocks as an option. We need Xidas.

Yes i know and i said we have all the options in the world. They just cost money...

XIDA are AST

[doucheNozzle]

Yes i know and i said we have all the options in the world. They just cost money...

XIDA are AST

Yea you got the sneaky edit while I was posting...

[Captain Bondo]

It was a selfish request:lol: - my spindles already have hubs with 5x4.5" pcd and adapters for 355mm Brembos so I have more reason to keep them than most. ;-)


I am either going to do dropped spindle setup on stock housings (ie weld a spindle on above where the stock one is, cut off the steering arm and other unnecessary parts, then cut the spindle in the stock position off, just using the steering arm and BJ mount from it).

This would do geometry correction and also allow you to go very low with standard length inserts. But then my thought was why not just reinstall the spindle on a better strut housing.

Sorry this is pretty OT. Regardless of my ramblings that dont apply to anyone else but me, :oops: I think the quicksteer spacers are a great product from BNE!

[Poik]

I hope your going with the m3 variant. mucho better then the standard e36...
Yeah I have the M3 stuff, is there any difference besides the sway bar bracket? Hub part numbers were the same when I replaced them.

[blkaplan]

Yeah I have the M3 stuff, is there any difference besides the sway bar bracket? Hub part numbers were the same when I replaced them.


from what i remember for your intended purposes that will be the only difference.

[klr142]

I might install mine tonight... Still undecided if I want to use the quicker steering, as my pump already makes some noise... It might be low again though, seeps out of the top. Meh.

[blkaplan]

I might install mine tonight... Still undecided if I want to use the quicker steering, as my pump already makes some noise... It might be low again though, seeps out of the top. Meh.

You might consider upgrading the fluid or adding a cooler?

[klr142]

It has Valvoline synthetic in it... :-/

[blkaplan]

http://www.pitstopusa.com/detail.aspx?ID=68326

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=79&pcid=27

[besthaticouldo]

what did you guys use to prototype them? that first ABS prototype doesn't look like a cast part? are they SLA?

sorry i am just curious because i work for an RP service bureau and this **** interests me haha.

nice design though. looks badass.

[blkaplan]

what did you guys use to prototype them? that first ABS prototype doesn't look like a cast part? are they SLA?

sorry i am just curious because i work for an RP service bureau and this **** interests me haha.

nice design though. looks badass.

The ABS Rapid prototypes were made using a Dimension 3d printer.

[klr142]

I'll get some Redline soon I guess. Doubt it'll make a difference but won't hurt.

[besthaticouldo]

The ABS Rapid prototypes were made using a Dimension 3d printer.

pretty cool. if you ever need prototyping work done shoot me a PM. we have almost next day turn around and we run a myriad of SLA resins.

[xvxax]

Yeah I have the M3 stuff, is there any difference besides the sway bar bracket? Hub part numbers were the same when I replaced them.

The m3 spindles are super similar to the 325/328 spindles design wise. Differences are brake caliper mounting and some other small differences. Same bearing size and control arm/tie rod mounting locations

[Poik]

Oh yeah now I remember. The brake mount ears are offset inwards, which will make using a Brembo caliper easier, which is why I chose them initially.

[-volvoRsport-]

When do they get available for 700/900?

[blkaplan]

When do they get available for 700/900?

CAD model and design is done, need to get prototypes made for testing and then production. hopefully have the preorder open in the next month or so.

[John V, outside agitator]

So is the next stage to incorporate this into a complete spindle that bolts up so a standard coilover from like a 240sx?

A guy can dream right?:-D

Hehehe...

That's so last year.:roll:

[boosted12a]

CAD model and design is done, need to get prototypes made for testing and then production. hopefully have the preorder open in the next month or so.

noice! ill be on that pre order since i killed my last 240.

[badvlvo]

Ordered mine this morning, looking forward to the improvement.

[FunkyStankyChicken]

They are worth it. faster steering is the sh!t!

[Captain Bondo]

That's so last year.:roll:

I was more suggesting a turnkey spindle complete with the fast steering arm and lowered ball joint mount incorporated in the design. I've seen stock spindles adapted to use other coilovers but that's not quite the same as what I had in mind when I made the comment. :)

Also I was kinda joking, what I was asking for is a bit of a tall order - taller than I would be willing to pay for probably.:lol:

At that point it's basically a custom forged dropped spindle with a short steering arm and standard coilover ears.

[RS1]

Any suggestions for steering stops? As of now, the wheel is rubbing sligthly on the inside of the arch on full lock without the adapters. I would like to utilise the quick steering abilities of the adapters, but this will also lead to more steering angle and more rubbing. Adding a stop would let me use the quick steer.

[i drift volvos]

Mustang steering stops that go under the boots?!?

I'll put this here to show how much freaking steering angle you can get with these

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5295/5525640518_a2f7f03ee8_b.jpg

Seriously....it's ridiculous!!

[Nikolaos244Turbo]

4banged@which hole from the 3 are you using to get this freaking angle?:wtf:

[i drift volvos]

the one closest in/fastest setting. Also using spacers and negative offset wheels. I think it comes out to 2.25" of backspacing o 17x8 wheels. Still rubbing so there is more steering angle to be had.

[boosted12a]

whats up with the 740 ones?

[towerymt]

I drove mine with the tie rods on the quickest hole and it was too quick for normal driving. I think it would only be good for drifting. It was so easy to turn in too far/too fast and lose grip from the front. If the front maintained grip, the car might oversteer easily. It was fun, though.

The middle setting is just right. With 8" ET4 front wheels and 245/45/16, it's a little twitchy with around zero toe and a lot of negative camber. But it's plenty quick, not too heavy with power, and stable enough at high speed.

I rub. Haven't worked out steering stops yet. Someone posted pictures of a piece bolted to the trailing arm so the steering arm would hit against it.

[Benjam83]

I drove mine with the tie rods on the quickest hole and it was too quick for normal driving. I think it would only be good for drifting. It was so easy to turn in too far/too fast and lose grip from the front. If the front maintained grip, the car might oversteer easily. It was fun, though.

The middle setting is just right. With 8" ET4 front wheels and 245/45/16, it's a little twitchy with around zero toe and a lot of negative camber. But it's plenty quick, not too heavy with power, and stable enough at high speed.


I've got to ask.....exactly how quick was it, on the quickest hole and the middle one? Can you quantify....or compare it to something else. I know my wife's Mini has a very quick steering, a little heavy. But if you sneeze on the highway, you've changed lanes. And her car is hilarious to AutoX.

I can imagine though, that whole dymanic changing when you take that kind of steering and make the car RWD, compared to the FWD Mini. Whereas, like you said, you turn the fronts too quickly and there isn't any weight transfer, and you just understeer off.....or just the opposite happens.

Just curious. Either way, I'll be interested once these are available for 7/9s.

[RS1]

Adjustable steering stops would be the most flexible, so welding a nut on the track controll arm and use a screw which the hub assembely hits to stop the steering angle, might be a good solution.

A little different on another car:
http://www.4x4xplor.com/images/steer-stops/steer-stops00.jpg

[klr142]

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/196237_760580977658_19701519_40843338_5006915_n.jp g

Notes from my experience:
-Paint your stuff if you don't want it to rust.
-Modify your spacers as little as possible to prevent ackerman from going out of wack.
-The roll correction is immediately noticeable, makes the car much more stable and keeps the rear end much more planted. I love it.
-The quicker steering is great(running the middle setting), even for daily driving. You almost don't notice it until you wrench on the wheel or are parking.
-When the ackerman is messed up, as mine is, it sucks. Parking is like putting the brakes on because the wheels are pointing slightly different directions and you can't push the car easily(if at all) when the wheels are turned because of it. Utilizing the stock steering setting will reduce this. Not having to modify your spacers will also probably reduce this.


I love them, but will be going back to stock quickness to reduce the amount the ackerman is off. I want to paint them as well, because the plating didn't do much.

[blkaplan]

If you want to play with the ackermann settings ( the **** that everyone thought was ridiculous to want to adjust you can slot the 4 holes in a radial pattern. You would also have to clearance the flange on the wheel side.

[klr142]

If you want to play with the ackermann settings ( the **** that everyone thought was ridiculous to want to adjust you can slot the 4 holes in a radial pattern. You would also have to clearance the flange on the wheel side.Yeah... We thought were living in a perfect world I guess. Now, the "problem" becomes, how do we measure it reasonably?

[badvlvo]

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/196237_760580977658_19701519_40843338_5006915_n.jp g

Notes from my experience:
-Paint your stuff if you don't want it to rust.
-Modify your spacers as little as possible to prevent ackerman from going out of wack.
-The roll correction is immediately noticeable, makes the car much more stable and keeps the rear end much more planted. I love it.
-The quicker steering is great(running the middle setting), even for daily driving. You almost don't notice it until you wrench on the wheel or are parking.
-When the ackerman is messed up, as mine is, it sucks. Parking is like putting the brakes on because the wheels are pointing slightly different directions and you can't push the car easily(if at all) when the wheels are turned because of it. Utilizing the stock steering setting will reduce this. Not having to modify your spacers will also probably reduce this.
I love them, but will be going back to stock quickness to reduce the amount the ackerman is off. I want to paint them as well, because the plating didn't do much.

I noticed mine is off a bit too. I might reduce it to the middle hole for alignment today.

Honeslty that's the ONLY thing I don't like about them and with some future engineering Ben could straighten this out.