How to install Brown Tops on LH 2.2!

[760T man]

>>WARNING<<
Several people, including myself, have found old browntops to occasionally leak right around where the brown plastic top meets the metal injector body. BE SURE to check this on the first startup. Don't panic, though. Just get as many as you can, and if you have leaks, find the ones that don't leak.

>If you have a question and need a quick response, please send me a PM!<

Alright, this is pretty easy, but I figured that our newer crowd would appreciate an easy to find write-up on how to do it.

357 injector vs. Brown Top injector.
http://www.pbase.com/image/28695702/medium.jpghttp://www.pbase.com/image/28695703/medium.jpg


This is what greets you when you open the hood:
http://www.pbase.com/image/29362173.jpg

1. Depressurize the fuel rail. This can be done by pulling the fuel pump relay and in-tank pump fuse while the engine is running. Or, you could just let the car sit for awhile (a few days), if you have the time, but you probably don't. Or at least you don't want to wait that long. ;-)

2. Disconnect the injectors. Mark each line with masking tape so you remember which one goes where.

3. Unbolt the fuel rail, and remove any vacuum hoses that may obstruct you when pulling the rail.

The fuel rail and its 3 bolts.
http://www.pbase.com/image/28842509/medium.jpghttp://www.pbase.com/image/28833923/medium.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/28833926/medium.jpghttp://www.pbase.com/image/28833928/medium.jpg

4. Pull the fuel rail with the injectors still attached. Spraying a penetrating oil (ie PB blaster, rost off, or similar) at the base of the injectors and wiggling them a bit will make life a lot easier...but whatever you do, DO NOT let the injectors come out of the rail first - fuel will spill everywhere.

5. With an old dirty rag handy, remove the injectors from the fuel rail. They'll require a good bit of wiggling to get them out. I recommend wrapping the rag around the injector and the fuel rail while doing this to prevent excess fuel spillage.

6. Install the browntop injectors; Make sure all the O-rings are new. Vasoline works wonders for popping them in - but make sure you feel them pop in. If not, they won't seal properly.

7. Reinstall the fuel rail. A nice firm push above each injector will pop them into the manifold nicely. Reconnect any vacuum hoses you had to disconnect, and reconnect the injectors.

Alright, take a deep breath, the "hard" part is over. Also, if you have LH2.4, you're done with the entire proccess. LH2.4 automatically does everything else for you.

==========================================

Now that the browntops are installed, your base idle is off, regardless of how it was before.

You need to either go buy the Volvo special tool part #9995280 for $35, or build it yourself using Radio Shack parts for about $5. I chose the latter. You'll need 7 10ohm resistors and an LED assembly (any color, it doesn't matter, choose what you like).

Build it as shown:
http://www.pbase.com/image/28833918.jpg
The resistors MUST be on the RED(+) lead. The light will not work if you put them on the black(-) lead.

Now you're ready to adjust your base idle.

First, you need to locate this connector, it's on your passenger side fender near the AMM:
http://www.pbase.com/image/28833919/medium.jpg

Ground the red/white wire. The idle should drop. Go to the Idle Air Screw on the underside of the throttle body and adjust it(lengthen = faster, shorten = slower) until the idle is ~725 RPM, then disconnect the red/white wire you grounded before. The idle will surge, then settle, which is normal.

Adjusting the Idle Air Screw.
http://www.pbase.com/image/28833921/medium.jpg

Now, hook up your test light we built above to the green/white wire. For a lean mixture, the light will be OFF. For a rich mixture, the light will be ON. The light will blink on and off at equal intervals when you're dead on. Adjust the screw on the AMM until the light blinks; counter-clockwise is rich, clockwise is lean.

The screw on the AMM.
http://www.pbase.com/image/28833932/medium.jpg

Disconnect the test light and you're done! Enjoy your new found fuel (and more than likely increased boost ;-)).

[ovlov760]

Now I see why you wanted the URL of my browntop website. :-P

[mAydAy]

nice writeup, I'm also loving the corrosion.

-Andy

[fengler]

hey the corrosion is a form of weight reduction :-P

[Boosted2003]

LOL

Ive never seen a volvo motor that dirty. Even my whored out 940 with 210k on it motor didnt look like that.

[760T man]

Now I see why you wanted the URL of my browntop website. :-P
I actually wanted it so I could verify which way to turn the screw on the AMM...I'm paranoid like that. :-P I wrote the article because your site is so damn hidden that even if one spent his entire life looking, he still wouldn't find it. ;-)

Ive never seen a volvo motor that dirty. Even my whored out 940 with 210k on it motor didnt look like that.
yea, it didn't have a splashpan when i got it...which would've helped, cause even my 760 motor with 270k on it wasn't this dirty

[volvo9]

How much of an improvement did the injectors give you? How much more boost can you run? I'm looking for a set.

Heres an injector removal tip: Spray the bottom of the injector with penetrating oil and after you wiggle them for a second they pop right out with minimal effort.

[Spottty]

I think the part about the LH2.2 setup was very helpfull. I had no idea how to set that up.

Thanks man!

[Greenchunks]

Yeah, the write up was helpful. I am gonna do this as soon as I have some free time, the injectors are sitting on my desk ready. This helped me with any small details I may have had questions about.

[sweetswede]

Thanks for the write-up. I too found this helpful. I am currently looking for a set myself. No luck so far, prob every other TBer has gone and gotten them all. Josh

[Kakkarotttto]

well hey i am having the biggest problem, with my LH 2.2 i did the base idle and everything and yet with 300 ohm resistors in my AMM wire. And under boost its to lean for me, I did the timing light and its just to lean, the car runs a lot better without resistors then with them. ANother thing i noticed is my a/f gauge never goes into rich at all, No matter what i set it to, it goes to the last ideal mixture and never further, Phillip Bradley HELP!

[n xntrx volvo]

thanks for the write-up, some guys forget alot of noobs search this site or post here, one more way to point a noob, w/o having to repeat the whole thing.
one question though, is that led 230 ohm of resistance? cuz i only get70 ohms resistance from putting 7 10ohm resisters in series. you also might want to include wattage, as i'm sure someone down the line will want to know.

[760T man]

Proper resistance for the test light (NOT the AMM) is 750ohm, the LED assembly has a built-in 680ohm resistor, so it works out to total 750ohm.

[n xntrx volvo]

cool thanks for the clarification. i'll be doing this sometime soon soon and this will aleast help me. a link to a thread for finding them would be nice also.

[thelostartof]

a link to a thread for finding them would be nice also.
finding what?

[n xntrx volvo]

brown tops and others, just an list of options, and which models to find them in, along with your famous starian ones. yes i know you have too many sets you'd like to get rid of, but i also have access to the same jy's.

[thelostartof]

haha well then go junkyarding w/ me and if we find a set u can keep it

easy .. ANY 2.3L turbo ford you find ... 85+ should have the brown tops ... just look @ the tops of the injectors .. if they are brown then get them .. two 10mm bolts and t hat's it

[Hank Scorpio]

well hey i am having the biggest problem, with my LH 2.2 i did the base idle and everything and yet with 300 ohm resistors in my AMM wire. And under boost its to lean for me, I did the timing light and its just to lean, the car runs a lot better without resistors then with them. ANother thing i noticed is my a/f gauge never goes into rich at all, No matter what i set it to, it goes to the last ideal mixture and never further, Phillip Bradley HELP!

resistors? You know the turbo cars already have resistors.. you didn't double up on them by chance did you?

Im sure you didn't.

Maybe you've got a tired FPR.

[760T man]

not the resistor PACKS doug...you gotta add 3 100ohm resistors to the red/blue AMM line on LH2.2 for the browntops, otherwise it runs pig ass rich, or at least it SHOULD...and does for me and ovlov760...and wouldn't a bad FPR make it run pig ass rich? my 760 sure did when its FPR went bad...

Jordan, another thing we didn't think about...could the AMM be going bad? It's something to try at least...but man that whole thing is just f*cked up.

I haven't had the opportunity to actually drive the car yet (still have that one leaky injector) but I did move it around in my driveway as my parents needed yesterday...it runs 1000x better when dead cold. with the 357s, it felt like an ultra-low compression engine for the first couple minutes, especially in the winter...that's 90% gone now.

[Kakkarotttto]

I'm going to test my a/f gauge tonight and see if the gauge itself is just messed up, then maybe a new FPR. If i can find a spare 007 AMM somewhere, i will try swaping it and seeing what it does

[fengler]

so how much boost could you run with just browntops, kandn filter and stock exhaust? Also for the 3 reistors you spliced into the amm wiring, do you leave those in there forever?

[760T man]

ovlov760 is running 17-18psi with no ping...

[fengler]

k, and the 3 resistors in the amm harness? permanant? also how much of a decrease could i expect in my mpg with browntops assuming i drove the same(punching it on corners!)? thankss for the right up btw

[760T man]

Yep, the resistors are permanent. You'll have to talk to ovlov760 regarding gas milage, I haven't driven the car enough to figure that out yet.

[Lord_Athlon]

LOL

Ive never seen a volvo motor that dirty. Even my whored out 940 with 210k on it motor didnt look like that.http://lordathlon.zapto.org/pics/DSC00782.JPG

http://lordathlon.zapto.org/pics/DSC00783.JPG

[nohbudi]

i wonder about all this work.... mine installed with no issues sans resistors. altho i dont have a AF gauge, im inclinded to believe that im not running rich at idle or low RPM, because with the tcam i had no issues obliterating my tires from a dead stop. also i took a multimeter to my o2 sensor a week ago, and the fluctuations at idle were correct, and the voltage was correct as well.... perhaps its because im running Lucas browntop replacements? (black body, with blue stripe around the center)

[760T man]

I don't think the fact that they're Bosch or Lucas would have anything to do with that...

Since replacing the leaking injector, I've been driving around and noticed that when I get off the gas after romping it, the injectors cut out, then resume, then cut out, then resume again...sometimes just once, sometimes quite a few times. I've been told it could be a bad throttle swithc, though I may take the resistors out and see how it runs anyway...

other than that, it's great...I can run 17psi all day with no ping, doesn't ping even when it spikes to 18psi...and the boost hits stronger even when I don't go all the way up.

[Arnt]

I found this writeup very helpfull, but I have one problem... My AMM dosn't have an adjustment screw on it... I know it was changed before i bought this engine, so I wonder if it could be from a jetronic 2,4 system? It looks just as the one in this write up, but without the hole for the screw...

Is there any other way of adjusting the signal from the AMM?
Is the screw just going to a pot meter? if thats the case, is it a posibility that I can insert one on the wires going out from the AMM?

[760T man]

Arnt, prehaps you have LH2.4? either that or maybe the wrong AMM...if you're in europe, you probably have motronic which is a totally different system and to my knowledge does not have any adjustment on the amm

pulled the resistors and went for a run tonight...car ran like complete and total ass, so i promptly put them back in.

[thelostartof]

k, and the 3 resistors in the amm harness? permanant? also how much of a decrease could i expect in my mpg with browntops assuming i drove the same(punching it on corners!)? thankss for the right up btw


i found my mpg went UP 2-3mpg w/ these injectors on my LH 2.4 setup be it that my stockers were that bad( i passed smog w/ them so)

tho i got 17mpg city and 26+ highway driving like a total ass so

[945TurboTwins]

[QUOTE=760T man] Since replacing the leaking injector, I've been driving around and noticed that when I get off the gas after romping it, the injectors cut out, then resume, then cut out, then resume again...sometimes just once, sometimes quite a few times. I've been told it could be a bad throttle swithc, though I may take the resistors out and see how it runs anyway...
[QUOTE]

Cullen - I ran my Browntops in LH2.4 without any mods (resisitors) and had the exact same problem. It seemed like the computer was having a hard time keeping up with the swing of the A/F ratio. It was especially bad went I took it out of drive and into neutral or park.

[760T man]

Cullen - I ran my Browntops in LH2.4 without any mods (resisitors) and had the exact same problem. It seemed like the computer was having a hard time keeping up with the swing of the A/F ratio. It was especially bad went I took it out of drive and into neutral or park. well it's only between 1-1.5k rpm, only when decelerating for me. I've talked to several people who also have browntops, mike, etc, and from what I'm told nobody else is having the same problem as me...what exactly does it do for you when you take it out of gear?

it doesn't really affect drivability, because other than that one little thing, it's running great. Philip said he'd let me try a spare tps, and if that doesn't fix it, I guess I'll just get used to it.

[945TurboTwins]

I was having problems with off-load idle. The car seemed to do fine in drive, but once I shifted gears into park or neutral, the car seemed to be letting the A/F ratio get too low and then would over compensate with too much fuel. So the A/F would go up and then drop down too low again causing the engine to stumble.


I have an Autometer 20 LED A/F gauge that lets me see the full swing of the A/F ratio (please no comments about narrow band vs wide band) and it was clear that the car was stumbling when the light swung to the lean side. Since I often sit at idle due to work, this was not going to work out for me. I put the 804s back in and everything was fine. And I know the injectors were good because I just paid to have them cleaned and tested.

Another interesting side note, with the Browntops, my car would start instantly. Normally, I engage the starter and it cranks the normal 2-3 times and then the car starts. With the Browntops, I would barely turn on the starter and it would jump to life.

[760T man]

I noticed the starting thing too...except mine starts in 2-3 now where it used to start in 5-6 or so...

as for the idle thing...check for vac leaks, make sure you reconnected EVERY hose you disconnected to pull the rail. I skipped one by mistake, and it did the exact thing you were talking about. it smoothed right out when I put it back on. it's possible you missed one hose when you put everything back together w/ the browntops, but didn't miss it when you put the 804s back in...

my idle is a tad on the high side (900-1000) but smooth as glass...its just that pulsing thing at 1-1.5k on decel. thats wrong...and that's more of an annoyance than a drivability problem IMO

I'd say try the browntops one more time and make sure everything is hooked up right...

[945TurboTwins]

Nah...I'm done with Browntops for now...I sold them to WeezilUSA.


Good suggestion about the vaccum leak. I am pretty sure I had everything hooked up though.

[740TurboPerformance]

Great writeup! This encouraged me to give setting my base idle properly and setting my AMM/MAS another whack BUT NOTHING!


I grouned out the red/white wire to the bracket for the coolant resivior, did not make a damn difference in idle, nothing, car ran at the exact same idle speed. Should I ground it somewhere else, what could be wrong?


Hooked up my test LED that I had made exactly as described by MVP, figured out my mistake buy looking at the unit used in the photos here, I was using it backwards, so I tried it the reverse, still nothing either, no LED and I'm not gonna start turning the AMM/MAS adjustment screw again cause last time, no matter where I turned it, nothing!


I've replaced my ECU, this one works fine, new O2 sensor, new AMM/MAS too, connectors all look good, car runs fine just want to check and set these adjustments! What could be wrong, this is really frustrating me!!

[760T man]

Great writeup! This encouraged me to give setting my base idle properly and setting my AMM/MAS another whack BUT NOTHING!


I grouned out the red/white wire to the bracket for the coolant resivior, did not make a damn difference in idle, nothing, car ran at the exact same idle speed. Should I ground it somewhere else, what could be wrong?


Hooked up my test LED that I had made exactly as described by MVP, figured out my mistake buy looking at the unit used in the photos here, I was using it backwards, so I tried it the reverse, still nothing either, no LED and I'm not gonna start turning the AMM/MAS adjustment screw again cause last time, no matter where I turned it, nothing!


I've replaced my ECU, this one works fine, new O2 sensor, new AMM/MAS too, connectors all look good, car runs fine just want to check and set these adjustments! What could be wrong, this is really frustrating me!!
I'm afraid that one's got me stumped...I could probably be of more help if you'd ever sign on to AIM :-P

[740TurboPerformance]

sorry don't sign on much anymore, if any of you think of anything I could try, let me know, I could see the LED probe not working for some reason but grounding out the red/white wire to metal like the coolant tank bracket should have some effect right, it is supposed to drop the idle, it does dittely squat for me, frustrating cause I'd like to start with getting my base idle set properly but I can't. If anyone can think of anything I may be doing wrong let me know . . . . Thanks late

[haltechsupra]

I used a radioshack potentiometer that has a turn knob. When you find what resistance you need, you can then get a resistor/resistors. For my na b230f with the grand national turbo on it and supra turbo fuel pump, supra mk3 turbo injectors(430cc) it likes to be adjusted around 160-180 ohms. Im running 5psi right now. If i can figure out how to retard the igntiion timing then ill run 12 psi. Its plenty fast right now though. With the turbo motor in it(lower compression) , it liked to be around 230-300 ohms with the same setup@15psi. This is for my 1990 740 turbo.
Kris Weldy
for more details check out...

http://home.comcast.net/~volvo4life/Index.html

[ovlov760]

What color wire are you tapping into with your pot? I can't tell in the picture.

[v240tic]

[QUOTE=760T man]Arnt, prehaps you have LH2.4? either that or maybe the wrong AMM...if you're in europe, you probably have motronic which is a totally different system and to my knowledge does not have any adjustment on the amm
QUOTE]

European volvo's only has motronic on the B230ET engine. Engines later than ~89 has LH jetronic.

[760T man]

Arnt, prehaps you have LH2.4? either that or maybe the wrong AMM...if you're in europe, you probably have motronic which is a totally different system and to my knowledge does not have any adjustment on the amm


European volvo's only has motronic on the B230ET engine. Engines later than ~89 has LH jetronic.

that's what I thought...

[Arnt]

My engine is a B230FT produced 17 december 1985, imported to Norway from switzerland, and has Jetronic LH 2.2 complete system, exept that the AMM is from a LH 2.4, I've checked everything now so i'm sure about it. :-P

I've now got a LH 2.2 AMM with the thin wire in the hosing broken, today i tried to solder the wire, but it just broke en other place... so now i will try to change the black tops sens it seems like everything else is the same. have anyone tried this before? :???:

[760T man]

and it ran with a LH2.4 AMM?

UPDATE: I replaced my AMM and the rythmic surging problem on deceleration between 1-1.5k rpm is gone. Chris (945TurboTwins) maybe you should try that.

[Arnt]

Yes, and unfortunaly it is still running with the LH 2,4 AMM, as i said; i had to solder the (so ****ing) thin wire in the housing, which was difficult enough, then the wire broke another place... :-( then a checked my LH 2.4 AMM and found out that the only difference in them was the chips and it's circuts and the pot meter.

So i tried to unsolder the housing from them both. That was some ugly ****, i think the contacts were hard/warm soldered some how... deffinitly not soldered the normal way.

By warming the contackts max of what my soldering iron sould (450 deg celcius) and using a thin knife to force them apart i finaly got them apart, changed over the black box (were the chips and their circuts is) from the LH 2,2 AMM, to the good housing from the LH 2,4 AMM and soldered it on normal.

Then i put it in the car and used a multimeter to measure the resistance over the pot meter, i went from 0 to 1014 ohms (with the contact on the car disconected). I tried to start the car, put it wouldn't run. then i started on 0 ohm and tried to start, turned the adjustment screw 1 turn (i think that was equal to around 40 ohms) and tried again, so i did all the way to 1014 ohms... and it wouldn't run... :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(

Any one who knows the right position for the adjustment screw?

[Arnt]

I can also add that it runs a little lean with the 2,4 AMM.

[yozsi]

just get a good 007 amm, dont try this soldering ****.

[760T man]

I second that notion...also, it has to be an 007-816. an 007-015 will not allow the ECU to leave closed loop, which will almost certainly result in ping at 6psi...

if 007-816's are scarce there, let me know, I'll see what I can do to get one shipped your way.

[Arnt]

i'm not sure which one it is, i'll look tomorrow. Thank you, an AMM and 4 good browntops would make my car a lot better, it runs far too lean now...

Do you know how much you want for that without shipping?
Thanks alot!

[760T man]

It depends on my cost. I'll talk with my mechanics and let you know...my email is aviationspotter@comcast.net if you have more questions or anything

[ovlov760]

I just bought a used AMM for $23 shipped and guanteed against DOA off ebay. Works great... I suggest you look on ebay.

[spongemonster]

So has anyone installed browntops on a N/A 16 valve? I am curious as to if it would do anything considering fuel pressure is the same right.
James

[tryingbe]

N/A?

What's the point? You don't want to make your car run richer than it is.

[760T man]

yeah, browntops aren't neccessary on an N/A anything...and if you turbo the 16v, browntops probably won't be enough.

[spongemonster]

Well basically I have been told my stock injectors will put out about 180 hp worth of fuel so considering age maybe 170hp. I would consider them a road block in my plans to go faster. My car will be getting ported and polished and matched (in out blah blah) once i can take enough time to get it off the road. Basically it is either backwods browntops or an aftermarket a/f computer adjustermathingy made by apexi. I'd like to try cheap for now
James

[nohbudi]

your non-turbo 16v uses a high impedence injector. were as the turbo cars all use lower impedence.

[spongemonster]

yeah I am getting a glowing cherry red manifold so I suspect there is some lean mixing going on. No I don't have a cat or a turbo so those aren't causing it. SO I will blow a bunch of money today and put an a/f guage on
James

[760T man]

yeah I am getting a glowing cherry red manifold so I suspect there is some lean mixing going on. No I don't have a cat or a turbo so those aren't causing it. SO I will blow a bunch of money today and put an a/f guage on
James

it could also be improper ignition timing. screw up the timing enough and you could light up the entire passenger side of the engine compartment revving in neutral...

[spongemonster]

well that's another dead end as my timing is non adjustable with the distributor right on the end of the cam shaft. I dunno I figure I need more fuel soon for a turbo anyhow (when I add a turbo)
James

[volvo88]

good write up, was wondering how to upgrade LH injectors!
Thanks.

[BDKR]

Another satisfied customer here. This is for my wifes 765T in which I just replaced the AMM. My wife was concerned that the chain of resistors and LED was going to fall off the car.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Anyway, worked great. I tuned it so that while it's still flashing, it's on more than it's off. Paranoid eh?

Good show!

[Nemesis]

Let's bring this back to the front burner for the one's who are just starting there Volvo build!! It is a well written article!!:volvo: :woowoo:

[760T man]

Thanks Nemesis!

[Jono780]

It seems like a lot of ppl are having trouble. Is it just little things that go wrong with individual ppl, or is it a problem with the setup?

[sgtrauksauff]

I like it. I think that once I get my car actually to run properly, A little trip to a junkyard where I saw an XR4Ti the other day will get me my injectors, and a little bit of fun!


--sarge

[ovlov760]

Keep a close eye on them the next couple weeks. Old brown tops sometimes leak from where the plastic top meets the metal body for whatever reason. Probably wouldn't hurt to dump some cheap injector cleaner in your gas tank either. ;-)

[89740ti]

I had that leaking problem, too. Started after about a month. I gave a couple light taps to the offending injector and the rail above, and it seems to have re-seated. I also used this article to accomplish this installation, and found it to be excellent.

[volvo]

nice write up! detail to seewhats gon gont, simple verbiage so as to properly comprehend that which is being complete.


hey the corrosion is a form of weight reduction

thats what Alfa Romeo's are all 'bout

[760T man]

I had that leaking problem, too. Started after about a month. I gave a couple light taps to the offending injector and the rail above, and it seems to have re-seated. I also used this article to accomplish this installation, and found it to be excellent.

as did I. I should've updated the write-up right away, I'll do that now.

Glad y'all like the writeup. PM me guys if I don't respond to a question in here.

[str8krewzn]

Ok i know this was probly answerd sumwere
but need help ples
i have lh2.2
ok after i install brown tops
can i use a regular test light
to the wires
or do i need the volvo test light?

[760T man]

Ok i know this was probly answerd sumwere
but need help ples
i have lh2.2
ok after i install brown tops
can i use a regular test light
to the wires
or do i need the volvo test light?

the volvo test light is most certainly easier. the P/N is in the first post, grab that and go down to your dealer and ask for the tool. it's something like $35.

[Tariq Abdullah]

Thanks for the info on the injector swap...I began to look for the Ford 2.3L injectors, and looked at www.McFord.Com ( McCarville Ford- in Centereach NY ) Click on parts @ left of screen... then Racing Parts & Search for 2.3L Fuel Injectors :)

They have a FEW listings for the 2.3 injector... for the 38-39lb. injector look for part # M9593-M394, a NEW set of 4 injectors is $140...The 42 lb. injector is under part # M9593-F304, a NEW set of 4 injectors is $215...

According to the site, they state that all injectors are flowed & matched to a couple of grams of each other...

May invest in a set shortly for my 91 945T:)

Thanks

Tariq

[str8krewzn]

Ok
why are the resiters needed?
some people say it wont really make a diff.
And then with the test light i just ground it and connect it on the white/green wire to the AMM then just screw in or out until the light blinks?

[760T man]

Ok
why are the resiters needed?
some people say it wont really make a diff.
And then with the test light i just ground it and connect it on the white/green wire to the AMM then just screw in or out until the light blinks?

affirmative. it needs to blink at equal intervals, tho.

[str8krewzn]

Are you on AIM
i keep trying to IM you its faster but its koo
And blink at equal intervals?
what do you mean by that?
And are the resistors really needed?
and if i have a 60/48 trim turbo
how much BOOST will the brown tops support?
Thanks for you help
if you online reply IM mite b faster but its if u want ;-)

[stylngle2003]

depending on the flow rating of the BT's you should be fine for around 15psi on 93 octane...since the factory system is pretty safe for 12psi on 93 in good shape, and some even run up to 16

[89740ti]

Are you on AIM
i keep trying to IM you its faster but its koo
And blink at equal intervals?
what do you mean by that?
And are the resistors really needed?
and if i have a 60/48 trim turbo
how much BOOST will the brown tops support?
Thanks for you help
if you online reply IM mite b faster but its if u want ;-)
I figure He already may have answered you, but if it is LH 2.4, it shouldn't need them. LH 2.2 does. Some say they don't on it, plug in they run fine, but mine seemed to be okay when ?I put them in, got some low end and between shift hesitation, idle was fine though. I did the resistor trick, and you could tell right away it was better. For the reason, not a specific clue, but I recommend following his advice. Worked great for me. And on my 89 744, I can bury my boost needle, which is supposed to be 15 psi plus, and I have had no issues other than I need to get the turbo cam from Ipd next, it just gives up too soon. I got an interesting numbered gauge face that replaces the stock in dash face, I will post pics of that when I am done, plus I can actually check calibration where I work, so I can see how close the stock gauge is.

[760 Sleeper]

I never installed the resistors and my car works great, what do the resistors couteract?

[Raz]

I threw these injectors in ... no ****ing resistors, no idle problems - crazy rich the way I like it under boost (too rich is good for stoich on E85) :)

- R

[volvo88]

Just a note:

It's really clean and easy to install your 300ohm resistors inside the car near the computer (blue/red wire to the AMM). It not only saves cutting into your engine harness but is also weather proof...

[lammmy]

First, you need to locate this connector, it's on your passenger side fender near the AMM:

Ground the red/white wire. The idle should drop. Go to the Idle Air Screw on the underside of the throttle body and adjust it(lengthen = faster, shorten = slower) until the idle is ~725 RPM, then disconnect the red/white wire you grounded before. The idle will surge, then settle, which is normal.


Sorry to bring up an old post/article here, but I still just want to adjust my idle/base mixture, no browntops, just want to adjust the settings, that is all. But I, cannot get anything to happen. The line I quoted, when you say "Ground the red/white wire", do you have to ground it with a string of resistors (like in the pictures) or JUST ground it, to be able to adjust the Idle, because without the resistors, nothing happens.

Thanks.

[Matt Dupuis]

I've also noticed this, Benson. Every time I ground the wire that's supposed to lock out the idle, nothing seems to happen. It's possible we've both got our idle screws set so that it'll idle at 900 RPM without the idle control, and when we ground that wire the idle changes so little that it seems like nothing's happening. I haven't monkeyed around enough to test my theory - been meaning to for 6 months now!

You need the resistors for the LED test light, not to ground the red/white wire.

[lammmy]

Yesterday I had reached my wits end and took off the AMM, tested the potentiometre and found that it actually was working, and was turned so far to the left that it wasn't registering on my multimetre (on pins 2 and 6). So I turned it down, and started over. I was able to adjust the mixture a little, but it still goes rich as soon as I touch the Accelerator. So, now that I know the AMM potentiometer works, what would be more lean, HIGH resistance, or LOW resistance at the AMM terminals?

And Matt, I think that was the case actually, because I actually turned the idle screw waaay low before grounding the pigtail and then when I grounded it, the car stalls...that was a happy time, I actually got something to work!!!

But as a whole, my car is still super rich with any sort of throttle, and adjusting the amm while installed doesn't do much. So again, can you even tell me what would lean out the mixture based strictly on AMM resistance?

[Matt Dupuis]

Adjusting the AMM takes time. I built a little test light the other day and monkeyed around, and it seems to take a few seconds and up to a minute for the computer to react to the new AMM setting. Adjust slowly, my son.

And Benson, you could have a few other troubles. I had a fuel pressure regulator that was fine off boost, but gave rediculously high pressures in boost. I'm not sure why that would be, since a failure is generally a failure. Ian also had a rich running problem that turned out to be the one-way valve, though now that I think about it I'm not sure how that could be...

----------------------------

My question to you folk who've done the browntop / 2.2 swap is this: How badly was your ignition timing affected? Assuming the AMM signal controls the ignition timing as well as the fuel trim, adding a resistor inline with the AMM signal line should also tell the ICM that less air is entering the engine, which should call for a bit more advance. Granted you can dial out a bit of static timing at the distributor and hopefully end up at the same place under load, but this also effectively lowers the cruise timing and should therefore affect fuel economy.

The other question I have is: What about extreme cold starting? I imagine the AMM is ignored during cranking, so no matter what tricks you've performed on the AMM signal, during cranking things are going to be quite a bit richer. Knowing Megasquirt and extreme winters like I do, I know that the car is relatively insensitive to excess fuel during cranking and is difficult to flood, but it can be done.

My plan is to install small CFI injectors (similar to browntops) and a 4 bar regulator along with a Fredchip, and drive it all year 'round. If this is not going to work, I'd prefer to know ahead of time and sell the chip, trade the injectors for something bigger, and run 'squirt. Obviously the 2.4 guys can leave their experiences out of this, since it's a completely different animal.

[frpe82]

Matt, I would not worry too much about that.

Sure, the resistor on the AMM is a kind of "bandaid" that actually offsets a large part of the map (intead of skewing it which is what is really desireable).

But the maps are skewed in the other direction (more ignition advance down low), so that will instead affect how much timing you will be able to dial in on the distributor before it starts to ping at low rpm and low load. The ignition advance will in most cases be too retarded up top in this case.

Most of the time on LH2.2 we are use to giving it as much advance as it can take at the desired boost level we are running. When doing the AMM trick, the result will be the opposite and the timing will be advanced down low, and that is what you are adjusting the distributor for to counteract ping. This in turn will make the timing at high(er) boost be a little bit more retarded than desired.

It should work like this, at least in theory. You may of course get different results in reality depending on your other mods. Maybe the ignition curve is even more suitable now (if you have a cam that gives more torque up top it would probably be a good match actually since the ignition timing will be a little more retarded, and in that case it is desireable).

[Matt Dupuis]

Fred, that's not how I would have expected to see it. At cruise RPMs and relatively high vacuum (low flow thru AMM), the ignition lead time might be so close to "fully advanced" on a stock system that reducing the apparent flow thru the AMM by adding a resistor might not give you any more advance, and what little you'll get by the reduced AMM signal would be more than offset by the amount you'd have to dial out of the dizzy to get near-detonation at full boost.

Not to mention that with a more aggressive camshaft, more advance is required down low with a little less on top, which would compound the problem I perceive.

Since you've got an "in" with a chip provider, you've probably got access to stock fuel and timing maps, based on Load x RPM, correct? Is there any way you can post this info? I would find it very useful...

[frpe82]

Fred, that's not how I would have expected to see it. At cruise RPMs and relatively high vacuum (low flow thru AMM), the ignition lead time might be so close to "fully advanced" on a stock system that reducing the apparent flow thru the AMM by adding a resistor might not give you any more advance, and what little you'll get by the reduced AMM signal would be more than offset by the amount you'd have to dial out of the dizzy to get near-detonation at full boost.

Not to mention that with a more aggressive camshaft, more advance is required down low with a little less on top, which would compound the problem I perceive.
Usually when raising the boost, making mods, whatever... then you usually adjust the timing at the distributor so that you will not get any ping at max load.

But...

When you put a resistor in the AMM line, the ECU and EZK will think that you are using less air than you actually are. That makes the ignition advance more, and get a little bit more tricky.

And... Since the EZK map is offset and not skewed (the AMM signal is not linear to air-flow as you know), the results will be these: You will need to adjust the ignition not to ping on low(er) load and low(er) rpms instead of adjusting it at full load. The ignition advance will then not be as advanced as it could have been at the higher load and rpm regions.

Since you've got an "in" with a chip provider, you've probably got access to stock fuel and timing maps, based on Load x RPM, correct? Is there any way you can post this info? I would find it very useful...
* The maps for LH2.2 and LH2.4 looks different.

* The maps between the ECU numbers look different.

* The tuned chips for each ECU number looks different.

* The LH system is more advanced that that, and utilizes more than just a load vs. rpm map. It uses a lot of maps and correction maps.

* The base map will not look the same as the map looks like when you drive.

But I can try to get one (graphically represented). Then the map will probably be from a 984 ECU. Or is there any other ECU that you would desire to have presented?

[Matt Dupuis]

Thanks for that, Fred.

I understand that several different maps are used, but I assumed that the basic fueling and ignition calculations were based on load (represented by AMM voltage) and RPM. Since this topic is centered around LH 2.2, I'd prefer to stay on topic and discuss 541 maps if those are available.

[frpe82]

Thanks for that, Fred.

I understand that several different maps are used, but I assumed that the basic fueling and ignition calculations were based on load (represented by AMM voltage) and RPM. Since this topic is centered around LH 2.2, I'd prefer to stay on topic and discuss 541 maps if those are available.
I will get them graphically represented. It may take some time though, but they will be posted.

[shellshock]

bump. This was JUST the article I was needing :)

[Jimo760]

nice, one question, can something like this be done on a v6? 89 B280 to be exact

[760T man]

I need more info. If this is a B280E we're talking about, you'll have Motronic and no O2 sensor, so it won't take well to bigger injectors. If it's a B280F you'll have LH 2.4 which can learn for bigger injectors.

[Jimo760]

i don't have a cat or any sensors in the exaust so i dunno. heres a pic of the engine you might be able to work it out.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/116/264710128_694a197216_b.jpg

[gale]

FYI
Step #2 says
"Disconnect the injectors. Mark each line with masking tape so you remember which one goes where."

You do not need to mark the injector plugs as is does not matter what injector goes where and what plug goes to what injector.

A.

[760T man]

i don't have a cat or any sensors in the exaust so i dunno. heres a pic of the engine you might be able to work it out.

No cat / no sensors in the exhaust = Motronic system. Best to leave it all alone.

[760T man]

You do not need to mark the injector plugs as is does not matter what injector goes where and what plug goes to what injector.

A.

I trust you speak from experience?

I'm a wee bit skeptical of that statement. Everyone else I've ever talked to warned me to make sure everything goes back together as it was before hand.

[SquareD]

You could switch 2 & 3 and 1 & 4, since those pairs fire at the same time, but you can't switch them all up.

[frpe82]

You could switch 2 & 3 and 1 & 4, since those pairs fire at the same time, but you can't switch them all up.
I would normally say that it doesn´t mater since they all are triggered from the same wire off the ECU. That is at least true for 100% of the LH2.2 ECU's, 95% of the LH2.4 ECU's and 80% of the LH2.3 ECU's.

However...

LH2.4 ECU's with batch fire do exist for 4-bangers. They also exsist for I6 engines.

So do LH2.2 ECU's (only in I6/V6 applications).

LH2.3 ECU´s normally comes with two banks of injector drivers and they are all batch fire (in the hardware). If they use the batch fire or not is up to the software and in which cars you mount them (normally Porsche's).

[Jimo760]

No cat / no sensors in the exhaust = Motronic system. Best to leave it all alone.

bummer, well at least its bored to 3.0 already, guss i should be happy with that huh.
thanks dude.

[760T man]

bummer, well at least its bored to 3.0 already, guss i should be happy with that huh.
thanks dude.

Hey, man, over here we don't even get the 'E' engines. We get the B280F, and while it has LH 2.2/2.4, it's 145HP :grrr:

Of course, nobody here likes the V6 anyway so...

[Jimo760]

coz it aint a turbo? lol this E engine had 178 -180 stock the bore has taken it to like 230 or something, it need dyno running, but it upsets alot of drivers lol if you got that crap one well theresno wonder, the E is a beast!

[760T man]

coz it aint a turbo? lol this E engine had 178 -180 stock the bore has taken it to like 230 or something, it need dyno running, but it upsets alot of drivers lol if you got that crap one well theresno wonder, the E is a beast!

Nah, it's because of the nasty reputation the B27F built up.

[Rockmonton]

okay, i made up the test light, and nada, can't get it to blink. i also added the 300 ohm resistance in the wire... so, any suggestions? and yes, i did get the anode/cathode thing right.... does anyone know what output voltage that port should give at "rich"?

[fisky52688]

when you ground the first wire, the red/white one near the AMM, do you need to have the resistors, or will a regular wire going right to ground work? I know that for the green/white wire I will need to use resistors and an LED, to set the mixture.

[760T man]

No resistors needed on the red/white.

[fisky52688]

cool, this makes sense. You know what would be really good on TB, if people started making videos of what they were doing instead of articles, I am thinking of making a video about this.

[BleedingOrion]

So when adjusting your mixture with the test light does the o2 sensor need unplugged first? I've tried adjusting it with the screw and the test light just stays off no matter how much i turn the screw and i know its not running lean its running rich. In the haynes manual it says to adjust the mixture you need to unplug the o2 sensor first. As soon as i tried unplugging it the test light came on.

[Jerd]

Do i need resistors to run brown tops on a +T? with 2.4

[760T man]

Do i need resistors to run brown tops on a +T? with 2.4

Not on 2.4. 960 3" AMM (012) is advisable, however.

[Jerd]

It was a great read and very informative but it would have been amazing if you included how to install brown tops on +t's

[BDKR]

Do i need resistors to run brown tops on a +T? with 2.4

Not on 2.4. 960 3" AMM (012) is advisable, however.

240T man: The information you gave VolvoSporter is not correct. Brown tops are low impedance injectors. What that means is if the car doesn't already have resistors (resistor pack), then resistors need to be added. In the case of a +T, the car in question has high impedance injectors. Switching to low impedance means you need to add resistance inline, or in other words, add a resistor pack.

VolvoSporter: Another option for you is just to use high impedance injectors. In that way, you don't have to cut into the harness. Just plug in the new injectors and go. That's what I did with a set of Hi-z (high impedance) 42lb hour injectors. Best decision I ever made.

It was a great read and very informative but it would have been amazing if you included how to install brown tops on +t's

As long as we are talking about LH 2.2, it's the same procedure. If OTOH, it's 2.4, then just plug them in and go.

[760T man]

240T man: The information you gave VolvoSporter is not correct. Brown tops are low impedance injectors. What that means is if the car doesn't already have resistors (resistor pack), then resistors need to be added. In the case of a +T, the car in question has high impedance injectors. Switching to low impedance means you need to add resistance inline, or in other words, add a resistor pack.

Sorry, I presumed he was talking about the AMM signal line resistors mentioned in the article, not the ballast packs for low-Z injectors.

[BDKR]

Sorry, I presumed he was talking about the AMM signal line resistors mentioned in the article, not the ballast packs for low-Z injectors.

That's cool mang! No need to apologize. :)

It's important here because people will keep coming back to this thread for information. We don't want people blowin' up their shiz you know? :lol:

[Jerd]

Thank you both for the great information. :) I really appreciate it.

Good thread.

[nextproject]

I have a couple questions i'd like to ask regarding this. If i were to get a pair of chips for my B230FT with LH2.2 (its an '87 744ti) would that negate the need to do this? Would the chips be able to compensate for larger injectors such as the brown tops?

Also i was kinda confused by the pics but i think i've got it now, i think i'll just get the special volvo tool for the test light. Can i just solder in a 300ohm resistor? In the pic you have what i assume to be 3 100ohm resistors. I'd just like to keep the string of resistors to a minumum.

I find it amazing that most people havent invested in a wideband by now. Adjusting boost (safely) on a turbo car almost necessitates having one. I plan on getting one as soon as the exhaust is made on my car.

Im glad i was pointed to this thread, its great that you guys have come up with stuff like this to make things work, and cheaply, too, i might add.

[unionsmw]

another easy ten mintue swap here... no resistors yet, cause im overdrawn, but it runs cool... no idle, wot, or decel issues on a 86 740 turbo wag

[timpanama]

question i have a 86 240 that i put a 93 b230ft rebuilt engine into and i am running a 740 turbo lh 2.2 in my 86 lh 2.2 harness.
now that being said do i need to run a resistor pack and what exactly is it and can i run brown tops at 15 psi with no resistors?
also do the resistors need to stay there in the engine harness or are they there to just get the air fuel right?

thanks guys

[760T man]

question i have a 86 240 that i put a 93 b230ft rebuilt engine into and i am running a 740 turbo lh 2.2 in my 86 lh 2.2 harness.
now that being said do i need to run a resistor pack and what exactly is it and can i run brown tops at 15 psi with no resistors?
also do the resistors need to stay there in the engine harness or are they there to just get the air fuel right?

thanks guys

You do not need a resistor pack if you use high-Z injectors. Try Bosch 0 280 150 756 (Red top, came in Ford Thunderbird 3.8 SuperCoupe, 300cc) or Bosch 0 280 150 785 (Orange top, came in 850 Turbo, 315cc). Additionally, the white-body newer style Bosch injectors, the slim ones, from either an S60 T5 or a Supercharged buick V6 are high-Z as well and are good browntop alternatives.

I no longer recommend running the resistors in the AMM signal line. Just install the injectors and set the base idle.

[timpanama]

thanks

[nextproject]

wait wait wait, are you saying that on an LH2.2 car, after installing the browntops, theres no need to run 3 100ohm resistors? Just adjust the idle? Do i also re-adjust the AMM and timing?

[760T man]

wait wait wait, are you saying that on an LH2.2 car, after installing the browntops, theres no need to run 3 100ohm resistors? Just adjust the idle? Do i also re-adjust the AMM and timing?

Through continued research since the writing of this article, we've found that the 300ohm resistance in the AMM signal line causes crazy timing advance, which in turn causes ping, utterly defeating the purpose of installing the bigger injectors.

So yes, just throw 'em in and adjust the idle - which would involve re-adjusting the AMM.

[nextproject]

okie dokie, great job updating this, i've installed the injectors but had yet to install the resistors (or even start the car for that matter).

[SwedishBee]

I installed my brown tops in the 89T and I did not mess with anything else...
It runs fine, mayyyybe 1-2 mpg loss
The car actually sounds different with the injectors, The engine seems to have a different tone.
It helped with some ping at higher boost levels..
Should I install a 4bar FPR? I would have to adjust the AMM for sure and what else?

[ard]

I've got a 3" MAF for LH2.2, what benefit will that give me in addition to using brown tops? Just more airflow before maxing out the sensor?

[VQ]

I'm just checking my so called browntops as were fitted when I got the other turbo. Missing pintle cap and not brown. Pn is 0280150402. Also 086 is on it. Hassles.

Got home just now and googled it, seems I have 36lb ford injectors, out of the 3.8 v6 and some V8's, but I still don't get why it doesn't have a pintle cap....

[WindowsBreakerG4]

So I've never seen anyone say anything, but with brown tops does highway millage drop?

[DNAsEqUeNcE]

have a 007-816

also have a 006-015, from a v6 760

will this not be good for boost?

installed 3800 buick injectors today, tuned idle with LC-1, works great.

for alden, no mileage drop, runs at the same 14.7 on a stock 2.2 turbo setup. just tune the idle right with the AMM and you be aight'.

[DNAsEqUeNcE]

it'll work fine, the ECU controls open loop, not the AMM

durhhh

[Granteous]

240T man i'm waiting on your lh2.4 write up... getting ready to put those brown tops in! :-D

[gottarollwithit]

So instead of doing the resister connection to the amm, you can use a wideband to set base idle/mixture?

[DNAsEqUeNcE]

So instead of doing the resister connection to the amm, you can use a wideband to set base idle/mixture?

ding ding ding ding~!!!!

:)

Works great!

240T man i'm waiting on your lh2.4 write up... getting ready to put those brown tops in! :-D

Lh 2.4 should automatically adjust for the browntops.

just remember to reset your ECU.

[ZoomSpeed]

wait, is this injector upgrade meant for turbo cars only or will it help my N/A?

[gottarollwithit]

I was under the impression that you need Browntops on an Lh 2.2 car b/c you've installed a larger turbo and your crankin up the boost.

[760T man]

240T man i'm waiting on your lh2.4 write up... getting ready to put those brown tops in! :-D

First half of the article is the "LH 2.4 write up" - since LH 2.4 has no base idle adjustments you just install the injectors and it self-adjusts.

And it says that in the article. Seriously, RTFA, n00b! :-P

[Granteous]

Haha

[gavin18t]

it'll work fine, the ECU controls open loop, not the AMM

This makes sense to me, but I'm wondering why it was stated earlier in the thread that the 007 (015) AMM would not allow the ECU to enter open loop. Any more information on that?

I have been unsuccessful in locating an (816) AMM, but I did find a wiring diagram (http://niche.iinet.net.au/VL_Technical/Bosch_MAF_900Kg.pdf) for the AMMs, and it appears that the adjustment screw on the AMM body is just a pot between pin 6 and ground.

This sounds like something that would be pretty easy to do. I am wondering, however, if anyone can take their (816) AMM that they've used successfully and measure the resistance between pin 1 and pin 6, so I can get an idea of what size pot I'll need to use. The 0 280 212 007 (015) that I have sitting in front of me has a fixed resistance of 250Ohms between pin 1-6. I'm hoping that the post-brown-top-install resistance is HIGHER, not lower.

[gavin18t]

Okay, another discovery. I'm not really sure if anyone is interested, but I'm going to post it anyway. It's a forum, the more information the better, right?

I have a spare 0 280 212 007 (015) AMM; the one I just mentioned last post. These are the stock AMMs (to my knowledge) that are found in the LH2.2 motors, only with no adjustment screw for the idle.

Well, that's what I thought at least. I just pulled this one apart, and it turns out that there IS a potentiometer in there, it's just not accessible from outside. This is awesome news for those of us who can't actually find a (816) datecode AMM, as it means we can make adjustments without the external fiddly screw.

It looks as though Bosch wanted to remove the adjustability, but didn't want to actually change the body or the circuit board at all, so they just fitted a blank plug in the hole instead of a screw face plug that engages on the back side with the potentiometer.

I also snapped a couple of pictures with the lid off, but I haven't donated/am too lazy to get a photobucket account right now to upload the pictures. So if you're interested in what the guts of an AMM looks like, send me a PM with your email address and I'll fire them off to you.

[Dakar09]

Great thread. This is unrelated to lh2.2, but the question I have is this. For someone going from an '83 turbo K-Jet to MS soon, I'm assuming I'm going to disregard the resistor pack altogether and can just go with high-Z injectors as a PnP solution (probably orange tops). Is this correct?

Edit: I'm changing from the K-Jet head to a 530, so I'm not limited in my injector installation.

[randomdude]

ok, so the resistors added in on the first thread, is that the "resistor pack" everyone refers to? and i do still need to add them if i have a turbo right? because they are high imp, and i need low imp? right? which do i need? AGH! this is wearing me out!!!!

[brooks]

ok, so the resistors added in on the first thread, is that the "resistor pack" everyone refers to? and i do still need to add them if i have a turbo right? because they are high imp, and i need low imp? right? which do i need? AGH! this is wearing me out!!!!

I believe brown tops, like your stock injectors, are low impedance. Straight drop in, no alteration to the resistor packs. If you want to add high impedance injectors you have to remove the resistor packs.

I believe the first thread on this puts a resistor on an AMM lead, but I don't think you need to do that. Just adjust the AMM as stated in this thread to set you base idle.

[randomdude]

that clears up so much. thank you!

[Mylesofsmyles]

I've got a 3" MAF for LH2.2, what benefit will that give me in addition to using brown tops? Just more airflow before maxing out the sensor?

That's my wondering too...I assumed the resistor trick on the AMM was because the AMM was too small for the injectors, assuming the 3" AMM would remedy that, and not require resistors.

[Mylesofsmyles]

:grrr:

double post

[Wilford Brimley]

So will this work with a 007? Just curious if the AMM will work with brown tops

[Mylesofsmyles]

So will this work with a 007? Just curious if the AMM will work with brown tops

The general consensus is YES!!!

I'm still trying to learn what a 3" AMM will do though.

[Wilford Brimley]

Nice. I would switch the guts from a 007 to a 3" tube it its necessary...plus I wouldn't have to reduce my intake from the turbo than (3")

[miguel.760ti]

I found a 3" 006 AMM this weekend, gonna get a wideband and buy some CFI's and see what goes on with my 760.

[pwaes]

i have the 006 amm also. Still no time to switch the turbo and injectors, but i'm also curious what will happen when i dont swap the 3 006 amm when i've done the switch. Will post the results when i've done in though

[gavin18t]

1 year, 1 week and 1 day later, I have news (still not sure if anyone cares, but I DO!)

After installing a wideband, I continued the quest using the 007 (015) AMM and the fiddly screw inside. Turns out this potentiometer DOES work exactly as it does on the 007 (816) AMM that actually has the external screw. I've been able to dial my idle in to around 14.5 - 15:1 (it's adjusted ALL THE WAY lean, but hey, what do I care?), the idle seems stable with only a hint of surging at random times.

A/F ratios under boost, even moderate, are still outrageously rich (1-5psi = 12:1, 5-7psi = 11:1, >7psi = 10:1), but I'd rather be erring on the side of caution. Without any more means of adjusting the AMM, I'm effectively stuck with these A/F ratios, but I am at least temporarily satisfied with a relatively stoich idle.

[CerebralAilment]

Great write-up & useful information guys - I'm gonna have to bump this back alive so that I can find it next weekend when I put in the brown tops.. - did anyone find the benefits of a 3"AMM from a 960 on 2.2?

[miguel.760ti]

960 maf won't work. If you're going with a 3" maf it has to be from a V6 760.
Posted via Mobile Device

[CerebralAilment]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/lfRpekEpEAI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[swiftjustice44]

At the top of every page is a drill down menu called "Thread Tools" Click it and check subscribe. From that point forward, it will be stored in your CP (control panel). You can return to the thread any time you want and no one will be the wiser.

[mark244turbo]

What is the max size of injectors you can control with LH2.2 and 007 AMM?
Will it work with 440 cc or bigger injectors?

[photoman327]

Just in case

[darksider415]

Great writeup... I just did it on the 745, tonight. :)

[Owen760T]

1 year, 1 week and 1 day later, I have news (still not sure if anyone cares, but I DO!)

After installing a wideband, I continued the quest using the 007 (015) AMM and the fiddly screw inside. Turns out this potentiometer DOES work exactly as it does on the 007 (816) AMM that actually has the external screw. I've been able to dial my idle in to around 14.5 - 15:1 (it's adjusted ALL THE WAY lean, but hey, what do I care?), the idle seems stable with only a hint of surging at random times.

A/F ratios under boost, even moderate, are still outrageously rich (1-5psi = 12:1, 5-7psi = 11:1, >7psi = 10:1), but I'd rather be erring on the side of caution. Without any more means of adjusting the AMM, I'm effectively stuck with these A/F ratios, but I am at least temporarily satisfied with a relatively stoich idle.

I just installed brown tops today and have good idle and cruise AFR's but have the same super rich on boost afr's. Stock T3 turned up to about 15psi.

Anyone suggest any solutions?

[mark244turbo]

not the resistor PACKS doug...you gotta add 3 100ohm resistors to the red/blue AMM line on LH2.2 for the browntops, otherwise it runs pig ass rich, or at least it SHOULD...and does for me and ovlov760...and wouldn't a bad FPR make it run pig ass rich? my 760 sure did when its FPR went bad...

Jordan, another thing we didn't think about...could the AMM be going bad? It's something to try at least...but man that whole thing is just f*cked up.

I haven't had the opportunity to actually drive the car yet (still have that one leaky injector) but I did move it around in my driveway as my parents needed yesterday...it runs 1000x better when dead cold. with the 357s, it felt like an ultra-low compression engine for the first couple minutes, especially in the winter...that's 90% gone now.

#19 in this thread.

Yes, it is possible to use bigger injectors...When I was using the 36# brown tops with stock Lh2.2, I added a 330 ohm resistor pack to the line... I then calculated how much fuel I need for my elusive three hundred horse and I went with a set of 55# low impedence injectors from 5-O motorsports. I experimented with a 50 pound fpr from the Dodge Daytona and eventually went back to the 42 pound fpr from Volvo.

I needed 980 ohms on the AMM line just to get the car to idle. It ran with 1010 ohms on the resistor pack ( with no power over 4500) and I let it alone like that for about 4 months...

In August 2005, I started playing with the resistor pack in increments of 3 to 7 ohms and I finally settled on 1027 ohms. Now I get full power with no pings or cut out up to the 6000 rpm red line.

From: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=57416

I'm looking to make 275-300 hp can lh 2.2 do this? If so what chip,amm,ect. Is needed to achieve this? Im not looking for records or anything I want a setup that has been done many times. Thank you I tried searching but didn't know what info was outdated or changed.

Yes! Any number of combos. I did a potentiometer and stock toyota supra injectors (440cc) back in the day, with a diode for fuel cut. Look up the article , its here somewhere. Back when no one did chips for us.
I had proof on a dyno that it works , as far as adjustability wih air fuel,but my net storage went down. I didnt make 300 but it couldve been done.
Now theres chips and many more combos.. Attack your cooling first , get a aluminum radiator, better aluminum intercooler, aftermarket trans cooler and better brakes. Then the power stuff. Thats my suggestion.
Kris Weldy.

From: http://www.turbobricks.net/forums/showthread.php?p=4383321

For browntops (36/37lb) add 300-330 Ohm of resistors to the red/blue AMM line, or use a potentiometer and AFR-meter to find the ideal resistance for your AMM/injector combo.

Mark.

[Owen760T]

Thanks, but I got the impression that the 300 ohm resistor in the amm line was out of favour due to issues with timing advance and detonation?

[Owen760T]

Anyone have any input regarding whether to use resistance on the amm line or not? Can I back the timing off somehow if I add the resistance?
Thanks

[Owen760T]

Anyone have any input regarding whether to use resistance on the amm line or not? Can I back the timing off somehow if I add the resistance?
Thanks

[mark244turbo]

Don't put resistors in your AMM line. It causes timing issues and makes your engine ping.
I had to read a little further to discover my previous post was wrong.

Just install the browntops and adjust idle using a AFR-meter or use the 750 ohm led assembly.