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Mylesofsmyles
04-03-2011, 05:30 PM
A few days ago, a package arrived at my front door.

I opened it and suddenly remembered where my $100 went a few weeks ago. Left in suspense for a few weeks, RSI finally delivered on a pair of their 240 Stage I Polyeurethane Engine Mounts, part number 2100-2STG1.

I was starting to wonder if these things existed, let alone whether or not they'd make me the fastest guy in town, or just rattle my teeth numb. To my surprise they arrived without any instructions, hardware and I'm riddled by the lack of a guide pin on one side of each mount.

They look pretty and look stiff!!!

I guess a trip to the hardware store is in order, so I can identify the threads on the mounts,

Anybody have any idea about the lack of a guide pin...will direction matter? Am I missing something essential?


https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/__p8_bHFZ0vQ/TZjjeVykhKI/AAAAAAAALbQ/ZegbViQsj_4/Cascade%20Warranty%20001.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/__p8_bHFZ0vQ/TZjjfgNz9vI/AAAAAAAALbg/A7u51lec3t8/Cascade%20Warranty%20009.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/__p8_bHFZ0vQ/TZjjfM93sfI/AAAAAAAALbc/pA1v1stC-g8/Cascade%20Warranty%20008.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/__p8_bHFZ0vQ/TZjjehmM6XI/AAAAAAAALbU/kUfsvrutY9U/Cascade%20Warranty%20007.jpg


If I can't figure this out, I might resort to "Plan-B" ...

Some semi-truck tire rubber on the side of Hwy 101 with some carriage bolts.

242 glt
04-03-2011, 06:40 PM
I dont think you can put them on wrong, they go on one way. It almost looks like the allen/hex screw up top, looks to be where the pin location should be, maybe im wrong. Those look nice!

Funkee
04-03-2011, 07:29 PM
Cant really go wrong with that, should fit 1 way only, I just replaced mine 2 wks ago.
Only thing I can imagine is the hex bolt maybe being to big, therefor I drilled the left side of the motor mount itself (the aluminum one attached to the engine) a millimeter bigger and it slotted right in.

Oh, and I drove with SOLID steel mounts, that was like driving a washing machine powered subwoofer.

wennstroma
04-03-2011, 07:38 PM
I would try to get another allen screw, like the others, and put it where the pin should be. Mine bent/compressed the mount on the side where the pin was missing.
http://www.pbase.com/wennstroma/image/129402902.jpg

The thread size is the same as the stock mounts, 10x1.5mm iirc.

740atl
04-03-2011, 07:45 PM
Ratchet strap. Doesn't matter what kind of mount you use, it'll break in a 240. Especially the passenger side. I haven't busted a single one now that I use a ratchet strap.

Tom Wiley
04-03-2011, 08:06 PM
Ratchet strap. Doesn't matter what kind of mount you use, it'll break in a 240. Especially the passenger side. I haven't busted a single one now that I use a ratchet strap.

truth.

Mylesofsmyles
04-03-2011, 08:13 PM
Thats cool, $100 performance mounts that still require modification.

740atl
04-03-2011, 08:19 PM
Thats cool, $100 performance mounts that still require modification.

It's not the mount's fault, it's the design of the 240 motor mounting system. Most mounts are angled in one plane... think SBC, which is fine... the 240 goes and additional step, or rather an additional angle and also tilts the mount backward, so the weight of the engine alone wants to shear the mount apart. The answer is really to redesign the mount.

Mylesofsmyles
04-03-2011, 08:24 PM
It's not the mount's fault, it's the design of the 240 motor mounting system. Most mounts are angled in one plane... think SBC, which is fine... the 240 goes and additional step, or rather an additional angle and also tilts the mount backward, so the weight of the engine alone wants to shear the mount apart. The answer is really to redesign the mount.

No, it's the designer's fault. I would have anticipated an all inclusive package, like MAYBE a proper pair of aligning studs on each mount and MAYBE a little printed instruction clearly specifying the bore in which to enlarge the mounting stud holes on the aluminum mounting brackets.

I had no problem spending $100 on a brand new pair of mounts, but I now think that's a lot to spend on these, considering what's available at Volvo for the same price.

turbovulvo
04-03-2011, 10:13 PM
No, it's the designer's fault. I would have anticipated an all inclusive package, like MAYBE a proper pair of aligning studs on each mount and MAYBE a little printed instruction clearly specifying the bore in which to enlarge the mounting stud holes on the aluminum mounting brackets.

I had no problem spending $100 on a brand new pair of mounts, but I now think that's a lot to spend on these, considering what's available at Volvo for the same price.

??? You only need 1 alignment stud. With the 1 stud they have they only go in one way. You cannot mess it up. Since when did factory replacement parts need instructions? I have yet to buy brake pads, thermostat, swaybar end links, etc. that come with instructions to install them.

varg
04-03-2011, 10:14 PM
I've got stock mounts and a ratchet strap. I'll be interested to see how they hold up. I definitely would not spend $100 on a set of mounts though.

thelostartof
04-03-2011, 10:48 PM
Ratchet strap. Doesn't matter what kind of mount you use, it'll break in a 240. Especially the passenger side. I haven't busted a single one now that I use a ratchet strap.

Jaos 244 has had two stock MM's on his 16vT setup for a while now with tons of abuse and they still look great.

The Key to making a mount last is a proper trans mount in my mind as his car has a Getrag and is using the dual mounts so the engine has very little movement.

Mylesofsmyles
04-04-2011, 12:05 AM
??? You only need 1 alignment stud. With the 1 stud they have they only go in one way. You cannot mess it up. Since when did factory replacement parts need instructions? I have yet to buy brake pads, thermostat, swaybar end links, etc. that come with instructions to install them.

If it were a stock mount, I'd know how to properly install the mount. This is not a stock mount and there's a difference in the number of guide pins and no nuts for the threaded studs. I'm saying that for a part of this caliber and cost, it seems a little incomplete, considering they arrive to the customer with two riddles and no guidance for either.

I'm over it...mounts are going to someone who will appreciate them, and I'm spending my money on original Volvo diesel mounts instead.

2fast242gt
04-04-2011, 12:52 AM
Why did you start a thread to bitch? You got what you ordered now your looking for excuses to down them btw locating pin is pointless

2fast242gt
04-04-2011, 12:57 AM
No, it's the designer's fault. I would have anticipated an all inclusive package, like MAYBE a proper pair of aligning studs on each mount and MAYBE a little printed instruction clearly specifying the bore in which to enlarge the mounting stud holes on the aluminum mounting brackets.

I had no problem spending $100 on a brand new pair of mounts, but I now think that's a lot to spend on these, considering what's available at Volvo for the same price.

What's available at volvo certainly isn't polyurethane performance mounts really you shouldn't need instructions to put mounts on.... Use a shop manual if you can't figure it out

towerymt
04-04-2011, 12:57 AM
3rd mount. ~5 hard years on $8ea soft rubber motor mounts before they finally broke on the autoX car.

Most poly fail the same way...the plate makes a clean breakaway from the poly.

I used a ratchet strap on the daily driver. Had it looped over the intake between 1 & 2. It finally chaffed through the strap and broke, so I tied a knot and looped it again. Works good as a preventative measure, but I really do like how the car puts down power with the 3rd mount preloaded just a little bit.

Mylesofsmyles
04-04-2011, 01:11 AM
3rd mount. ~5 hard years on $8ea soft rubber motor mounts before they finally broke on the autoX car.

Most poly fail the same way...the plate makes a clean breakaway from the poly.

I used a ratchet strap on the daily driver. Had it looped over the intake between 1 & 2. It finally chaffed through the strap and broke, so I tied a knot and looped it again. Works good as a preventative measure, but I really do like how the car puts down power with the 3rd mount preloaded just a little bit.


Yep, seems like poly isn't ideal for a motor mount. I thought about the sheering too.

I think the diesel mounts will suffice and make a nice improvement in stiffness.

The ScamTech's didn't last but a few months...one's okay, but the other didn't seat properly and bent.

Mylesofsmyles
04-04-2011, 01:14 AM
What's available at volvo certainly isn't polyurethane performance mounts really you shouldn't need instructions to put mounts on.... Use a shop manual if you can't figure it out

No, what's available at Volvo is, #1 available and #2 rubber...a stiffer rubber compound than the standard 240 mounts...if we're talking about the diesel mount.

I've installed motor mounts on a fair number of cars, so not saying I can't figure it out.

What I am suggesting is that the manufacturer provide some explanation of how and why they differ, even slightly, from the stock setup. It would just be a little assurance for those who haven't gone the RSI Poly mount route before.

turbovulvo
04-04-2011, 01:28 AM
If it were a stock mount, I'd know how to properly install the mount. This is not a stock mount and there's a difference in the number of guide pins and no nuts for the threaded studs. I'm saying that for a part of this caliber and cost, it seems a little incomplete, considering they arrive to the customer with two riddles and no guidance for either.

I'm over it...mounts are going to someone who will appreciate them, and I'm spending my money on original Volvo diesel mounts instead.

There only needs to be 1 guide pin. The unit is 1 solid piece. If one side is lined up, the other has to be. They re-use the factory nuts. And at least when I installed mine, I did not have to drill the guide hole bigger. I understand you have already sold them. I just dont want someone to read this thread and get the opinion that they are some super complicated mount.

Xovaan
04-04-2011, 03:05 AM
Anybody care to post pictures of their ratchet straps? This sounds like something I need to invest in. :)

Streetkarnage
04-04-2011, 03:08 AM
lol I got mine the other day as well haha I ordered them last November... RSI are a joke!!

Funkee
04-04-2011, 03:49 AM
Anybody care to post pictures of their ratchet straps? This sounds like something I need to invest in. :)

+1 really curious

olov
04-04-2011, 09:06 AM
Yep, seems like poly isn't ideal for a motor mount.

it's just a poor design, it'd be sweet if they put those limiting tabs on the end plates so they turn into a solid mount when the engine tries to tear it apart

http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=315092&imageurl=http%3A//info.rockauto.com/Anchor/2469.jpg

Dakar09
04-04-2011, 09:26 AM
yes, please show the ratchet strap idea.

aibast
04-04-2011, 11:01 AM
why the hell does anyone need instructions for motor mounts? If you need that thing on an engine mount, you shouldn't be working on cars.

John V, outside agitator
04-04-2011, 11:14 AM
why the hell does anyone need instructions for motor mounts? If you need that thing on an engine mount, you shouldn't be working on cars.

Poiki this is the new America!

I'm surprised when there ISN'T instructions both explaining how to drink coffee and half the cup covered with warnings on what you shouldn't do with the coffee and the cup!

You cannot understand how fear and fear of "Liability" is the single dominant common trait in Americans--or the degree of unwillingness to even conceive of doing things yourself common in those under say 40 here.:oops:

JohnMc
04-04-2011, 11:25 AM
it's just a poor design, it'd be sweet if they put those limiting tabs on the end plates so they turn into a solid mount when the engine tries to tear it apart

http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=315092&imageurl=http%3A//info.rockauto.com/Anchor/2469.jpg

I got a set of these (really super cheap, like $4 from RockAuto) but haven't needed to mess around with putting them on yet. A pair of OE diesel mounts and a ratchet strap has been holding strong in my car for about two years so far (16VT, T5 trans).

Dunno, you can sort of see the ratchet strap in this pic.
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybiker/Volvo/Engine/IMG_4553.JPG

It runs from the rear engine hoist bracket over to a hole in the strut tower that was already there.Goes in a nice straight pull, very lightly humped over the brake booster. It's under a very slight tension at reast, just so the hooks don't rattle.

I'm sure a properly fabbed 3rd mount is better, from an aesthetic standpoint at least, but this strap still cost about $7, took about 5 minutes to install, doesn't transmit vibration, and it's lasted about 2 years at least with HP levels around 250 - 300 at the wheels the whole time.

If the stocker diesel mounts ever break I'll try the tabbed motor mounts (which were from some older Dodge diesel p/u, IIRC).

I got a set of RSI poly mounts (stg 1 or stg 2, can't recall) with the old 8V motor. One was torn in about a week, the other in about a month. Can't blame RSI, it's just the horrible geometry of the 240 front mounts. Narrow, so they don't have leverage working for them. And angled, so they sag in shear even with the motor turned off.

olov
04-04-2011, 11:30 AM
yeah, i rock an engine strap on both of my 240's, both had broken mounts when i got them, haven't broken one since i've owned them.

i just look at it like, if i were to make a poly mount, i'd modify them to not fail in the most likely way. wouldn't be that difficult, just a little extra metal, and it'd be bullet proof. i wouldn't try and weld tabs on after the poly was poured though

JohnMc
04-04-2011, 11:53 AM
It's one of those things that won't ever work in TB-land, buit it would be neat if someone (with more skills and tools than I) built nice replacement motor mount brackets for 240's that placed the mounts in a more vertical, lest tiwisted position, and placed them further away from the crank/centerline. Perhaps bolting on under the crossmember mounting bolts?

In any case, until then the strap works great. And it's available in a wide variety of matching or contrasting colors!

aibast
04-04-2011, 12:31 PM
Volvo 480 uses reer mount with nice strong metal strap over it to keep it from tearing apart. Worked great. Maby add a steel cable that keeps it from pullin apart. It should be nice and flexible but strong when pulled.

aibast
04-04-2011, 12:31 PM
Volvo 480 uses reer mount with nice strong metal strap over it to keep it from tearing apart. Worked great. Maby add a steel cable that keeps it from pullin apart. It should be nice and flexible but strong when pulled.

Tfest
04-04-2011, 01:00 PM
it goes in the same way the old ones come out, do one at a time and you won't screw up.

also

my $40 diesel mounts are much better quality and are just as stiff, oh, and OEM replacement parts are best.

Jordan
04-04-2011, 01:04 PM
Yeah.... I am on my second set of RSI mounts. I didn't like the lack of guide pins either. But I sacked up and just put em in to the best of my knowledge.

Just my two cents, $100 for performance parts for our hunks of sh*t is pretty darn good IMO. We are talking about a very small company here.

I understand your frustration Myles, but it is what it is. Return em if you don't want them. RSI is good people.

level8rsi
04-04-2011, 01:35 PM
A few days ago, a package arrived at my front door.

I opened it and suddenly remembered where my $100 went a few weeks ago. Left in suspense for a few weeks, RSI finally delivered on a pair of their 240 Stage I Polyeurethane Engine Mounts, part number 2100-2STG1.

I was starting to wonder if these things existed, let alone whether or not they'd make me the fastest guy in town, or just rattle my teeth numb. To my surprise they arrived without any instructions, hardware and I'm riddled by the lack of a guide pin on one side of each mount.

They look pretty and look stiff!!!

I guess a trip to the hardware store is in order, so I can identify the threads on the mounts,

Anybody have any idea about the lack of a guide pin...will direction matter? Am I missing something essential?


https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/__p8_bHFZ0vQ/TZjjeVykhKI/AAAAAAAALbQ/ZegbViQsj_4/Cascade%20Warranty%20001.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/__p8_bHFZ0vQ/TZjjfgNz9vI/AAAAAAAALbg/A7u51lec3t8/Cascade%20Warranty%20009.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/__p8_bHFZ0vQ/TZjjfM93sfI/AAAAAAAALbc/pA1v1stC-g8/Cascade%20Warranty%20008.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/__p8_bHFZ0vQ/TZjjehmM6XI/AAAAAAAALbU/kUfsvrutY9U/Cascade%20Warranty%20007.jpg


If I can't figure this out, I might resort to "Plan-B" ...

Some semi-truck tire rubber on the side of Hwy 101 with some carriage bolts.



F.....we're supposed to ship those with washers and bolts!
You want me to mail you a set?

level8rsi
04-04-2011, 01:37 PM
also we can only run 1 set of guide pins with the polly, as they need a spot to bleed the airbubbles...though if folks wanted we could do 2 sets of guide pins and have a separate bleed hole, but most folks didnt like seeing an awkward hole elsewhere.

Thoughts?

blu92in99
04-04-2011, 01:49 PM
It seems odd to me to hear about all of these poly motor mount failures from RSI, and the Volvo geometry being blamed as sole culprit. I'm not trying to say that RSI is to blame either. I know the mounts are designed to shear in case of an accident, but still...

As a comparison, the poly E30 mounts from Ireland Engineering I have in my 242 have been there for several years now, no issues. I just checked the Ireland website, they used to be $30/each, now they're $90/pair ($45/each). So the price is about on par with RSI.

But sorry Myles, while the E30 poly mounts do come with hardware, they won't come with instructions either...and you will have to drill out the guide pin hole on one of the mount brackets. It's because the E30 mounts both use central-located studs and not offset studs, but otherwise are a direct drop-in for our 240s. At least the RSI mounts are direct, no-modifications required replacement parts.


As others have said, if you need instructions to replace these motor mounts... :doh:

Just my two cents, $100 for performance parts for our hunks of sh*t is pretty darn good IMO. We are talking about a very small company here.Agreed.

JohnMc
04-04-2011, 01:53 PM
As a comparison, the poly E30 mounts from Ireland Engineering I have in my 242 have been there for several years now, no issues.
How much HP are you running through them?

Jordan
04-04-2011, 02:26 PM
How much HP are you running through them?

More about torque is it not?


Mitch - I think we would all be more satisfied with two guide pins.

badvlvo
04-04-2011, 02:49 PM
Jaos 244 has had two stock MM's on his 16vT setup for a while now with tons of abuse and they still look great.

The Key to making a mount last is a proper trans mount in my mind as his car has a Getrag and is using the dual mounts so the engine has very little movement.

The trans mount is often the weak link. I'm installing an Energy Suspension poly trans mount with my T-5, that will help a bit.

I'm probably going to buck the trend and just go with some solid mounts. The new shop has a nice lathe and a whole pile of aluminum goodness lying around for my use.
F.....we're supposed to ship those with washers and bolts!
You want me to mail you a set?

Ah, the hardware, how often it is forgotten.

760T man
04-04-2011, 03:06 PM
also we can only run 1 set of guide pins with the polly, as they need a spot to bleed the airbubbles...though if folks wanted we could do 2 sets of guide pins and have a separate bleed hole, but most folks didnt like seeing an awkward hole elsewhere.

Thoughts?

I could almost see that if they were yellow or red or some flashy color, but for black especially...F it, who cares? Function over form.

Anyway, I'm thinking of ordering a 700 set...but I'd need them quick, I have to have my motor swapped in time for Carlisle which means a month and a half tops.

wisturbo
04-04-2011, 03:11 PM
$100 :wtf: Hockey pucks, ratchet strap, diesel mounts...

Mylesofsmyles
04-04-2011, 03:45 PM
F.....we're supposed to ship those with washers and bolts!
You want me to mail you a set?

Yes, that'd be great.

760T man
04-04-2011, 03:50 PM
$100 :wtf: Hockey pucks, ratchet strap, diesel mounts...

Hockey pucks = too stiff for a DD. Diesel mounts = rubber = quickly broken down by oil. Rachet strap = works, but band-aid solution and not terribly attractive.

Argument: refuted. :-P

JW240
04-04-2011, 03:57 PM
I ripped the RSI stage 1 mounts with N/A power. Would have been nice if they'd supplied new ones, they were maybe 1 month old when they broke. I gave up after waiting too long.

Now I have new Volvo mounts (Diesel I think although the p/n is unreadable and the dealer was unclear too). Together with a 3rd mount they work OK but I need to improve the transmission mount too, the engine can still move around a bit too much with the sagging transmission mount. Maybe I'll fill the 3rd mount with some heavier weight shock oil too, it is a bit on the soft side maybe. No extra vibration in the interior either, with the poly mounts the sight in the rear view mirror would get blurred.

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/9922/p7294420.jpg

JohnMc
04-04-2011, 04:01 PM
Hockey pucks = too stiff for a DD. Diesel mounts = rubber = quickly broken down by oil. Rachet strap = works, but band-aid solution and not terribly attractive.

Argument: refuted. :-P

Oil, what oil? Why would there be oil on the motor mounts?!?!?

:rofl:

I think ratchet straps are bad only in the thought of them. In practice, they work great.

Xovaan
04-04-2011, 04:14 PM
I got a set of these (really super cheap, like $4 from RockAuto) but haven't needed to mess around with putting them on yet. A pair of OE diesel mounts and a ratchet strap has been holding strong in my car for about two years so far (16VT, T5 trans).

Dunno, you can sort of see the ratchet strap in this pic.
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybiker/Volvo/Engine/IMG_4553.JPG

It runs from the rear engine hoist bracket over to a hole in the strut tower that was already there.Goes in a nice straight pull, very lightly humped over the brake booster. It's under a very slight tension at reast, just so the hooks don't rattle.

I'm sure a properly fabbed 3rd mount is better, from an aesthetic standpoint at least, but this strap still cost about $7, took about 5 minutes to install, doesn't transmit vibration, and it's lasted about 2 years at least with HP levels around 250 - 300 at the wheels the whole time.

If the stocker diesel mounts ever break I'll try the tabbed motor mounts (which were from some older Dodge diesel p/u, IIRC).

I got a set of RSI poly mounts (stg 1 or stg 2, can't recall) with the old 8V motor. One was torn in about a week, the other in about a month. Can't blame RSI, it's just the horrible geometry of the 240 front mounts. Narrow, so they don't have leverage working for them. And angled, so they sag in shear even with the motor turned off.

This is really really cool and I plan on doing this to my car. Thanks for sharing! :)

Brandon
04-04-2011, 04:41 PM
$100 :wtf: Hockey pucks, ratchet strap, diesel mounts...

This. Diesel mounts FTW. If you don't like the idea of a ratchet strap (I run one on the 244), then the money you save could pay for welding in a professional looking 3rd mount.

sdturbo
04-04-2011, 04:59 PM
The only way I could make stock mounts live more than a couple pulls in the 242 was to bolt a piece of chain between the block and the subframe on the drivers side. This give you some cushy mounts for around town without over stressing them when you get on it.

Stephen
04-04-2011, 05:02 PM
Hockey pucks = too stiff for a DD. Diesel mounts = rubber = quickly broken down by oil. Rachet strap = works, but band-aid solution and not terribly attractive.

Argument: refuted. :-P

thats why you have a motor that doesn't leak oil duh

towerymt
04-04-2011, 11:12 PM
As a comparison, the poly E30 mounts from Ireland Engineering I have in my 242 have been there for several years now, no issues.
FWIW, Bne had one on his car and it failed like poly mounts fail on a 240...plate ripped away almost entirely clean.

Solution would be bolt-in motor mount brackets that move the mounts out and horizontal.

The mikeP-mount worked well. Cobbled from a 940 bracket and Toyota engine mount.
http://www.pbase.com/mperry/image/51827964.jpg

Jordan
04-04-2011, 11:25 PM
The mikeP-mount worked well. Cobbled from a 940 bracket and Toyota engine mount.
http://www.pbase.com/mperry/image/51827964.jpg

If everyone on this board had skills/resources/brain capacity to do things like this, Turbobricks would consist of the showroom.

Its nice to think we can all just do something like this, but we can't. Thats why a good bolt on solution is viable for us.

Yea, Right
04-04-2011, 11:54 PM
No, it's the designer's fault. I would have anticipated an all inclusive package, like MAYBE a proper pair of aligning studs on each mount and MAYBE a little printed instruction clearly specifying the bore in which to enlarge the mounting stud holes on the aluminum mounting brackets.

I had no problem spending $100 on a brand new pair of mounts, but I now think that's a lot to spend on these, considering what's available at Volvo for the same price.

Stock Volvo mounts for these cars fail left and right,. I have replaced thousands. None have ever come with instructions. Maybe you are not qualified?

fige
04-05-2011, 12:25 AM
This thread is pathetic. Why is this in showroom?

towerymt
04-05-2011, 12:53 AM
If everyone on this board had skills/resources/brain capacity to do things like this, Turbobricks would consist of the showroom.

Its nice to think we can all just do something like this, but we can't. Thats why a good bolt on solution is viable for us.
Agreed. The second line of my post was suggesting bolt-on brackets that do approximately what mike did with his drill-press-mill and in-house welding teacher for alu tig.

bigbret
04-05-2011, 01:06 AM
Diesel mounts are not cheap. Mine ran me $80.00 from Volvo in Santa Rosa, they had to be special ordered as well. I figure with a ratchet strap they may last a while ;-).

The other option I have seen is a bolt through the whole mount.