8x8 eh?

[the poi]

http://www.pbase.com/765ti/image/33551228/original.jpg

:-D


************************************************** ***************************

H E L P F I L E for msns-enhanced

philip.ringwood@ntlworld.com http://www.replica-cobra.co.uk

************************************************** ***************************

The purpose of this is for people to be able to expand on the MSnS code and select certain functions that have been added by different people. A lot of the following has been robbed from various sources, the rest has been picked from several people's brains and none of it would be possible without Eric's constant updating of MT.


For circuit diagrams, etc, see http://www.replica-cobra.co.uk and click on the MS CODE button, bottom left hand side. If making your own circuit please ensure the inputs are held high when no input is On, to stop them floating and causing the uP to see them as an input. e.g. 10K resistor from +5V to the input pin.

************************************************** ************************************************** *
********************************* I N P U T / O U T P U T L A Y O U T *************************
************************************************** ************************************************** *


The input for the clutch/brake is on pin 4 of the TOMI HEADER (JP1) for launch control. (low to activate) * See note 1
The input for Knock Detection is on Pin 5 of the TOMI HEADER (JP1) (low to activate)
The NOS System CheckBack is on Pin 6 of the TOMI HEADER (JP1)
the output1 (MTSS) has been returned on X5
The output2 (MTSS) is still on X4
The output to the fast acting solenoid or NOS System output is on X3
The output for the water injection pump is on X2
The input for fuel pressure sensing or the second O2 sensor is on X7 - Monitoring only, doesnt do anything in the code
The input for egt is on X6 - Monitoring only, doesnt do anything in the code

************************************************** ************************************************** *
************************************************** ************************************************** *

B I G C H A N G E F O R V 0 . 8 a n d a b o v e i s i t' s n o w c o m p a t i b l e w i t h 2 a n d 1
C y l i n d e r E n g i n e s !!

Nitrous System:
This adds fuel for use with Nitrous when its activated. It uses the Water Injection Pulsed Output (X3) so youll lose that function from the water injection system. It fires the NOS (X3) when the rpm is above the preset level and the coolant temp is above the preset level and the throttle is above the preset level.
NOTE: IT DOES NOT ADD FUEL OR RETARD THE IGNITION UNTILL IT RECEIVES A LOW SIGNAL ON THE NOS CHECK BACK SIGNAL (JP1 Pin 3) this is so you can arm the system in the cockpit and run the signal through pressure switches, etc. Fuel addition is calculated by interpoling between the user setpoints of NOS PW at 3000 rpm and NOS PW at the max rpm you set. The O2 correction is turned off during the time the System is active.
CAUTION: Dont forget that the system will add fuel every squirt, so calculations would need to take into account that you may be squirting more than once per Engine Cycle!!!
If Duty Cycle goes above 90% the NOS System will be turned off, this is for safety reasons. The additional fuel and retard will also be turned off, the system will reset when either rpm or throttle position are brought back under the set points.


Second O2 sensor:
I've added a second ego correction system that takes in a second O2 sensor. It runs bank#2 (output pins 34-35) when selected. This is for those that have 2 seperate exhaust systems e.g. V8 where each bank of cylinders are run with each bank of injector outputs. The sensors must be the same type, e.g. WideBand and they both aim for the same target afr with the same ego limits and steps as setup in MegaTune. The O2 and EgoCorrection can be logged, see the notes in Enhanced.ini file.

Water Injection control:
This comes on when boost and engine RPM are above the set values in MT (user defined 121) and the Inlet Air Temperature (IAT) is above the set value (126). When these are reached the Pump is turned on via X2 and X3 is pulsed at the same rate as injector #2 (this can be used to drive a fast acting solenoid). The theory being that if the water nozzle is selected to give a 15% flow rate of the total of the injectors flow rate then it follows that it should naturally give the right amount of water. Once water is turned on it then waits for boost pressure or RPM to drop below the set level, despite what the IAT is reading, as this should drop as soon as water is injected in. The output X3 is driving a FET which in turn switches the fast acting valve from Aquamist (PtNo 806 244). Whilst the water injection is on the O2 sensor is ignored (open loop mode), as the water would upset the readings.

Coolant Advance:
This adds 1 degree of ignition advance / user defined temp steps (232) when the coolant temp is below the max temperature advance setpoint (233). There is a deadband of 5degF to clear the advance value, so when the coolant is within 5F above the max temperature advance setpoint, no advance or IAT retard will be added. There is also a max advance angle setpoint (234), so regardless of temp the added advance angle will not exceed this.

IAT retard:
This retards the ignition 1 degree / user defined temp steps when the IAT is above your setpoint (127) and KPa is above your setpoint (229).
So if you set 1deg retard for every 10C of IAT (228) and your setpoints are 50C; at 80C IAT youll be running 3 degrees of retard from your base ignition settings in the map when the KPa is above the preset. I use it for heat saturation, when stopped for some time the exhausts heat the inlet up to around 70C, so when I start again my IAT is fairly high, so I add the retard to add some safety factor. When its back to normal temperature of 40-50C the retard will then have no effect as it's set to come on at 55C.

*****Please note********************************************** ****
The IAT retard will not function untill the coolant temp is above the max coolant temperature setpoint+5F deadband. So if clt advance max temperature is set to 130F then IAT retard will operate when clt is at 135F.
************************************************** ****************

Baldur's Launch control:
Launch control works when the input (JP1 Pin4) is switched low from a switch on the clutch or brake. It retards the ignition to a setpoint when the RPM reaches the soft limit and then it goes into Hard Limit when the RPM reaches the Hard Limit setpoint.
The Launch Control has been Modified with an idea by Matt, now you have the option of a variable hard cut rev limit point. If its selected in MT then the rpm the engine is running at when the launch button/switch is pressed is set as the hard limit. this is to enable you to alter the setting at the track without having to get the laptop out. I wouldnt recommend this with a clutch switch as every time you put your foot on the clutch it will take in the rpm and use that as the limit, I would use a thumb switch or something similar as the launch switch in this mode.
If you dont like it just select it off in MT:-)

Accel and Decel enrichments:
These can be selected to come on with either MAPdot or TPSdot.

Open Loop:
The point of Open Loop for O2 correction can be changed between throttle position, as per the normal MS, or to a setpoint of KPa (229). The option of Dave Edge's Target AFR for WB lambda sensors has also been added. This overrides the openloop mode and gives MS 3 targets for AFR <45KPa >90KPa and between 45-90KPa, the normal setting of O2.

Over Boost Protection:
If boost exceeds the Fuel Cut Boost setting (235) then fuel will be cut.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! C A U T I O N :!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !
IGNITION CUT IS NOT SUITABLE FOR VEHICLES WITH CATALITIC CONVERTERS, IT WILL DESTROY THEM

Hard Cut Type:
This is an option between the standard Fuel Cut or Ignition Cut. In Ignition Cut mode, you can select how many sparks it will drop out of every 5. 3 seems to be the best option to start with here. You can also opt to have both fuel and spark cut if you feel like it.

CAUTION: IGNITION CUT IS NOT SUITABLE FOR VEHICLES WITH CATALITIC CONVERTERS, IT WILL DESTROY THE CAT, YOUVE BEEN WARNED!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Over Run Fuel Cut:
This is used to cut fuel pulses to zero when the engine is decellerating. Simply set up the Max KPA (245) to a figure where the MAP goes to during decel, RPM setpoint (244) is for the min rpm where you want the fuel cut to operate and the TPS setpoint(246) should be set to a low point where it relates to the throttle shut.


Knock Detection:
This is a sod to explain so here goes. (Theres a time line on my website if you want more of an explanation)
As long as the engine rpm is below the setpoint (242) and the MAP KPa is below the setpoint(243) then it will do the following:
If a knock is detected (HEADER Pin 5 goes low) the ignition will retard by the first knock amount(238)
Any more knocks are ignored untill the Wait Time(240) has passed. If it receives another knock it will add a retard by the Subsequent Value(239) and wait till the timer (Wait Time) has passed. If no knocks are found it will advance by the Advance amount(241) and wait till the timer runs out before adding some more advance. If it receives any knocks during the advancing stage it will immediatly retard and restart the timer. There is a max Retard Allowed setting (236) so it can be pegged. There is also a built in limit of 30Deg Retard allowed, I cant see that being a problem.
As for detectors, well thats up to you all to resolve, There are several kits about that will supply the signal, youll just have to look to see what people end up using. Sorry I cant be more helpful here, but Im going to have to look for some myself, if I do come up with anything I'll post it on my website.
If the RPM and or KPa goes above the setpoints the retard will be cleared back to the base map values.
The knock input must go low for at least 3mSec, preferably it should go high again before it times out on the preset time.





philip.ringwood@ntlworld.com http://www.replica-cobra.co.uk


Jump on in. The water's fine!

[n xntrx volvo]

? whats ms?

[stylngle2003]

very cool new features...if im interpreting what you posted correctly (not knowing a lick about MSnS makes it somewhat difficult)

sounds like MSnS is now incorporating some high-end features that make it a more complete system

[mikep]

I read on the megasquirt board that a guy did that and all his pets caught fire and his wife left him and his engine exploded and he lost his job and the megasquirt community shunned him and now he lives under a railroad bridge.

But I think it gives me wood.

[the poi]

I read on the megasquirt board that a guy did that and all his pets caught fire and his wife left him and his engine exploded and he lost his job and the megasquirt community shunned him and now he lives under a railroad bridge.

But I think it gives me wood.Small price to pay. I mean look at those damn COLORS!

[kyle242gt]

That's badass... and truly and indicator of how :freak::yikes::twisted: we are that a sub line like "8x8 eh?" can convey so much.

Chris, as an early adopter, can you fill us in on any problems for transitioning from MSnS to MSnS+? IOW, if not doing knock, water, launch, etc, are any board or wiring mods needed to upgrade? I'm down now for +T'ing, but 12x12 looks poisitively bitchin (poisitive was an unintentional typo, but too cool to fix). :hitit:
-ps that version of MTSS looks yummy. does it do fuel and spark or just fuel?

[adrianpike]

-ps that version of MTSS looks yummy. does it do fuel and spark or just fuel?
That screenshot is of spark, so I'm assuming it does both.
12x12 is hawt.

[the poi]

That's badass... and truly and indicator of how :freak::yikes::twisted: we are that a sub line like "8x8 eh?" can convey so much.

Chris, as an early adopter, can you fill us in on any problems for transitioning from MSnS to MSnS+? IOW, if not doing knock, water, launch, etc, are any board or wiring mods needed to upgrade? I'm down now for +T'ing, but 12x12 looks poisitively bitchin (poisitive was an unintentional typo, but too cool to fix). :hitit:
-ps that version of MTSS looks yummy. does it do fuel and spark or just fuel?
I've been runnign the enhanced version of MSnS for about three weeks, and it was working great. This is the jsut-finsihed "msns-extra" version, and I havent got it plugged in yet. Should be running by the end of the night. You won't have to do any board mods if you just want the 12x12 ign maps, and a lot of the features. I shoved another radio shack PC board in the box, and have been adding circuits to it for the extra stuff.

edit:// And ya, this new MT does everything, fancy new program from Eric Falghren, its very customizable so new features in the code can easily be added to MT. Everything's still technically in beta, theres a new something pretty much every couple of days, but i've yet to run into any major problems

[linuxman51]

i've got three boards left to build, i wanted to do a photo shoot with em all on my desk, but if you guys are really jonesing for em i'll mail em out as they finish, otherwise its gonna be a few days til the kits are built, and then friday (yea yea im a slo mofo) when i deposit the ol pay check i'm gonna order wire. pics of the carnage to come after class.


also, the fuel maps are desynced for each injector output, and those tables will be growing to 12x12 as well.

[nohbudi getting learned]

hawt/......

[volvorsport]

ken,

one of those MSs for me ? :lol: :lol: :) :)


So Ms has the capability of 12x12 ? for fuel an dignition ? , im not keeping up with stuff at the mo , im too busy trying to adapt stuff to get sensors wired in !

[linuxman51]

ken,

one of those MSs for me ? :lol: :lol: :) :)


So Ms has the capability of 12x12 ? for fuel an dignition ? , im not keeping up with stuff at the mo , im too busy trying to adapt stuff to get sensors wired in !

if you ordered one through me, then yes, but i dont recall you doing that, so i'm going to have to venture a "no" and you'll need to talk to your orriginal contractee

[volvorsport]

bugger ,

well doug had said you were fixing one up (the one he broke ) so i thought id cut the middle man out .

so what gives with the 12x12 , anythin usefull ?

[uber box]

i've got three boards left to build, i wanted to do a photo shoot with em all on my desk, but if you guys are really jonesing for em i'll mail em out as they finish, otherwise its gonna be a few days til the kits are built, and then friday (yea yea im a slo mofo) when i deposit the ol pay check i'm gonna order wire. pics of the carnage to come after class.


also, the fuel maps are desynced for each injector output, and those tables will be growing to 12x12 as well.

yeah, i know you had supplier probs. soon i'll have my ms!

[the poi]

yeah, i know you had supplier probs. soon i'll have my ms!
The "supplier problems" are a lie. He's just stalling so his timeshare purchase can finalize.

[linuxman51]

The "supplier problems" are a lie. He's just stalling so his timeshare purchase can finalize.


shhh they still believe...

[volvorsport]

so , is the software for 12x12 map any good for the fuel side ?

[linuxman51]

the fuel side is still just 8x8 (well it was two mornings ago), but the plan is to make the fuel maps 12x12 as well. the reason is for "better resolution" (you know, for those uninspired people that think 8x8 is too small)

[the poi]

the fuel side is still just 8x8 (well it was two mornings ago), but the plan is to make the fuel maps 12x12 as well. the reason is for "better resolution" (you know, for those uninspired people that think 8x8 is too small)
althoguh seeing as there are two fuel tables, staged injectors are entirely workable. And frankly, for a four banger with a lot of turbo, smaller injectors for low RPM idling and enormous injectors when you're more than doubling engine VE seems like a better deal. The other option of course is two sets of the same size injectors, and just bring the others on at higher RPMs. I however, have a recurring fantasy of some biggish intake runners with some big injectors mounted up top for high RPM and high boost. Fuel atomization++


edit:// and 804's down low and some big CFI's up top is a good match. THe spray pattern on the 804's is designed to nail the backside of the intake port for fast vaporization with a confined stream. CFI's were designed to do a good deal of atomizing since they're designed to shoot into a carberueter-type thing. They have a wider spray pattern....

[Paul_VR6]

Someone remind me to finish building ONE of my cars so that I can put my MS in? Thanks. :???:

[stylngle2003]

Someone remind me to finish building ONE of my cars so that I can put my MS in? Thanks. :???:

finish building your cars dammit! :-P

[the poi]

Been driving around ont he new code, works great. Knock sensing works perfectly too, pulls timing on knocks its frickin awesome. he he!

[Paul_VR6]

finish building your cars dammit! :-P


Someone had to be that guy. Proud it's you? :cool:

Did you put the whole circuit he designed in, or are you just using the output from something like a knocksense unit into it?

[the poi]

Someone had to be that guy. Proud it's you? :cool:

Did you put the whole circuit he designed in, or are you just using the output from something like a knocksense unit into it?
all the ringwood circuit. works great. still have it set too sensitive...

[linuxman51]

Someone had to be that guy. Proud it's you? :cool:

Did you put the whole circuit he designed in, or are you just using the output from something like a knocksense unit into it?

you should be able to use knocksense if you have one, dont want to build the other circuit, or what not, but as i dont have a car to test it on (or, more importantly, a reliable megasquirt with my name on it) I can't verify, however I'm sure it works the same

[Paul_VR6]

however I'm sure it works the same

Excellent, thanks. :twisted:

[the poi]

http://www3.sympatico.ca/borism/Misc/MEGAKNOCK.JPG


This is the cricuit Boris gave for his KS. It appears the output has a variable duration (note "5-120ms")... Kenny seems to disagree, but perhaps one of us is drunk. Since the the current MS code pretty much "checks" if the light is on or not every second, it does seem like it should work.




edit:// If Intel ever starts marketing for women, I think Boris has their new slogan....

[The Aspirator]

Holy crap I'm so behind on the current MS hawtness! That 12x12 table looks incredible! Can't wait to try it.

I got one of Boris' Knock sense devices a few weeks ago but haven't put it in yet. Actually I've still gotta find me a knock sensor.. any body have an extra one for me? Once I get it setup then I'll try to make MS read the KnockSense, since it seems that no one had really tried it yet.

Dammit, and I was just getting really focused with work. Then I read this and can't resist the urge to go out for a drive and do some tuning. You guys suck. But rock at the same time. Look at how confused you make me! :-P

John

[the poi]

Holy crap I'm so behind on the current MS hawtness! That 12x12 table looks incredible! Can't wait to try it.

I got one of Boris' Knock sense devices a few weeks ago but haven't put it in yet. Actually I've still gotta find me a knock sensor.. any body have an extra one for me? Once I get it setup then I'll try to make MS read the KnockSense, since it seems that no one had really tried it yet.

Dammit, and I was just getting really focused with work. Then I read this and can't resist the urge to go out for a drive and do some tuning. You guys suck. But rock at the same time. Look at how confused you make me! :-P

John
Chronic unemployment is a natural side-effect of the Volvo.

[The Aspirator]

Ohh my GAWD there are so many new things with this version! I'm just beginning to mess with the settings.ini file for Eric's new beta version (mt225b252_setup.exe (http://not2fast.wryday.com/megasquirt/mt/prerelease/mt225b252_setup.exe)).

Air fuel ratio tables! The quad table spark extra version! MS II!!!! Damn I don't know where to start. This stuff is years beyond the 2.20 version. I'm very impressed. I just fcking wish I had more time to play with all this stuff!

John

[The Aspirator]

Hey Poi, what "theme" are you using in Windows XP? I think you told me once but I can't find it. Did you download it somewhere? Looks pretty slick!

John

[the poi]

That's my MS'ing theme. Whats the point of a laptop in the car if it doesn't look super-hip? Its "Sentinel", loaded wiht StyleXP. Its neat!

edit:// bwahha, ive upgraded MS and MT code every night for like 4 days now. and now we're up to 252 in MT, heh. Was 249 yesterday morning. Go Eric... However, MSQ's still don't particularly, um, load, unless thats been fixed. So upgrading gets tedious...

[The Aspirator]

I finally found that sentinal theme and got it loaded to my PC in red color, I love it! It took me forever to figure out how to get it to work though.... until I finally figured out what a ".rar" file was. :roll: Then it was simple! (a *.rar file is like a zip file, for those like me who didn't know).

I also got that new v228 installed on my laptop and working on the car! The version that Phillip made is pretty sweet, I'm loving the new features. I got it here:
http://www.replica-cobra.co.uk/accobra.htm (go to the side menu, on the very bottom, MS code)

I can't figure out how to make the spark table 12x12 though...? Everything works perfectly, both maps are 8x8. I love how the fuel and spark are finally in the same program! But when I go into the "Spark Tuning" screen, the 3D map doesn't work properly.... Are you having this problem too?

John

[the poi]

MT:

http://www.not2fast.com/megasquirt/mt/prerelease/

And "MSnS-Extra":

http://www.jsm-net.demon.co.uk/msns-extra/files/

Everything's still in beta too... so stuff might inexplicably stop working. Latest version should be in the 017 category, get the 017a stuff... you'll want the .h .asm and the .ini. Compile with your thermfactor. You may have the best luck writing with hypertherm with a -u command.

So basically, do the re-write dance!

!!
w
u
<send text file>


Success!

[the poi]

http://www.jsm-net.demon.co.uk/msns-extra/files/

Extra019c.


2 12x12 fuel tables.

[adrianpike]

http://www.jsm-net.demon.co.uk/msns-extra/files/

Extra019c.


2 12x12 fuel tables.
:eek: Sweet!

[The Aspirator]

Man you guys are nutty, upgrading daily!

I tried running one of the newer versions for a while but my car ran like poo, and I think I figured out why. With the old version of MegaTuneSS, I had my trigger angle at I believe 120. So how am I supposed to setup this new method to match my old one? I got confused and gave up. I think that was my only problem, right now I'm back to good old 2.25 that came out a while ago.
http://www.vipinfoservices.com/john/images/megasquirt04.gif
John

[the poi]

well, to run 120 deg trigger, then do, first box, 75, second box +22.5 and second box, +22.5. So you get, 22.5+22.5+75=120


edit://also, try trigger return, my car starts a lot easier that way, actually pops and farts a lot on time based. And do you have a timing light? you really need one to set your trigger angle dead on

[kyle242gt]

Okay, dumb question, but I'll try it anyway... when should MSnSextra ("Em-Ess-n-Sextra":-P) be seriously considered by those of us who need to get to work in the morning? 12x12x2 makes me very eager, but I don't relish the idea of being dead on the road. ...though I suppose roadside reflashes wouldn't be the end of the world.

[Hank Scorpio]

Can someone make a LIST exactly what to do (ie software to download, flashes to do, any rewiring to do):

Heres what I want:

12X12 fuel and ignition
Knock sensor retard
possible launch control.


Oh, has anyone had any luck using a USB->serial adapter? I would sure like to use my good laptop.

[the poi]

Okay, dumb question, but I'll try it anyway... when should MSnSextra ("Em-Ess-n-Sextra":-P) be seriously considered by those of us who need to get to work in the morning? 12x12x2 makes me very eager, but I don't relish the idea of being dead on the road. ...though I suppose roadside reflashes wouldn't be the end of the world.
well, the code seems to be doing quite well for me. I'd drive it around for a day at least to make sure nothing sneaks up on ya, but I did run some later code, 017 i think (12x12 spark table, all the pertinent features), on a drive to LA, the Whittier, to LA, to Whittier, to Santa Barbara. A little over 250 miles, and I got as good gas mileage as I did with LH (I had the EGO correction working on my NB, so 14.7afr, no WB at the time), and never had a problem. I've yet to try out this latest code (still re-writing my tables, can't import old save files with a big chagne like more tables :-( ) but I hope to get it going by the end of the night

[The Aspirator]

well, to run 120 deg trigger, then do, first box, 75, second box +22.5 and second box, +22.5. So you get, 22.5+22.5+75=120
That makes sense now. I think I had 120 in the first box, then +22.5 and +22.5......:roll: Thats why it drove so poorly. Now I'm eager to try it again!

John

[the poi]

That makes sense now. I think I had 120 in the first box, then +22.5 and +22.5......:roll: Thats why it drove so poorly. Now I'm eager to try it again!

John
good luck, im hoping another row of bins on the bottom will help me out with my occasioanlly popping idle... It's idling absolutely beautifully at 800 rpm right now in drive, 12*adv, rock stable.......but only with fuel for a 11.5-12afr.... :???:

[linuxman51]

Can someone make a LIST exactly what to do (ie software to download, flashes to do, any rewiring to do):

Heres what I want:

12X12 fuel and ignition
Knock sensor retard
possible launch control.


Oh, has anyone had any luck using a USB->serial adapter? I would sure like to use my good laptop.

god, get with the now. 12x12 fuel is so yesterday...

...the firmware for it came out yesterday/saturday night. I havent tried it yet (obviously) but the days and hours til i do are decreasing rapidly.... :)

[the poi]

Doug: good luck with the USB->serial adapter, they're generally a crapshoot as far as function is concerned. The basic idea is, the more you spend the better chance you have of getting one that will work, but many of them just flat out dont cooperate. I had this problem and fixed it by getting a port-replicator for my laptop off of ebay, cost me 20$ and I never had to worry again. If you can find a replicator or a small docking station, definitely use it, otherwise, check out the usb-serial adapter thread in the MegaTune forum at www.msefi.com . Some people have had some success.

As far as going for goodies (anyone who's interested).... the latest stuff (as of, well, today) is as follows:

First step, get MegaTune, latest I've used is b171
http://www.not2fast.com/megasquirt/mt/prerelease/
Run the .exe and install it

Then, get the new code, for 019c
http://www.jsm-net.demon.co.uk/msns-extra/files/
Download the zip, download the .ini .

Extract the zip, put your thermfactor.inc in the folder, and run "Compile.bat" to make a new .s19 with your thermfactor.

Open up hyperterminal ( try Start->Run->C:\Program Files\Windows NT\HyperTerminal\HyperTrm.exe )

Power up your MS and plug it into your comp
Start a new connection, call it "MS" or something.
Change to "Connect Using: < your COM port >"
9600bps, 8db, no parity, 1 stop, no flow control
Now you should be connected to the MS.
Type an "A" and you should get some garbled data

Now, exit HT and copy all your settings down, use the old MT.

Then open your MS box (power it down first...), short the boot pins, and restart the MS.

Open up Hyperterminal, load your connection "MS".
You should see "Boot>"
Type a "w" (shoudl see "wipe completed")
Type a "u" (should see "waiting")
Go to Transfer->Send Text File (MUST be "text file")
Make sure its showing "all files" and find your .s19 file that you updated with your thermfactor. Select it.
Wait a while, its uploading, when done, it'll say "completed"

Now power off your MS.

Copy that .ini file you downloaded into the mtcfg folder of MT171, say yes to the overwrite.
Now go to the Car1 folder (rename it if you like) and open the settings.ini file.

change the sets and unsets to what describes your config (most important, unset MS1 and set MSNS-extra)

Now start up the MS, and start the new MT, and everything should work just dandy. Copy in your new settings and you're good to go.


And in about 12 or so hours from when you started this process, there'll probably be some new code out :-D




edit://Blast, neglected to address the knock sensing and launch control. For that, you're gonna have to do some soldering. Go here for the circuit diagrams: http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=3489 . The MSnS forum at msefi.com is pretty much the place to be to keep an eye on the updated versions

[The Aspirator]

I've been successfully using Easytherm to download the .s19 files. Seems to be working wonderfully, and is easy as hell. Just specify the custom code version and find the file. I don't know if it's better to use Hyperterm, cause I never got it to work properly. I've also used the Download.exe program, and that works great too.

John

[DavoS40]

Doug I used a usb adapter since my toshiba didn't have the db9 connector, and it worked fine. I remeber I bought the most expensive one, but it's at home right now so I'm not sure what it was. I just had to set the commincation port on megatune to the right one and then it worked.
Dave

[Hank Scorpio]

Sweet Dave if you could let me know what kind that would be great :-D

[The Aspirator]

http://www.jsm-net.demon.co.uk/msns-extra/files/

Extra019c.


2 12x12 fuel tables.I've been messing around with the newest version all night getting it configured and such. I'll try it out tomorrow and see what happens!

By the way, what's the point of two fuel tables and two spark tables? I don't understand how/why one switches from one to the other.

John

[linuxman51]

I've been messing around with the newest version all night getting it configured and such. I'll try it out tomorrow and see what happens!

By the way, what's the point of two fuel tables and two spark tables? I don't understand how/why one switches from one to the other.

John

come on dude, rtfm.

[Matt Dupuis]

I'm not sure on that either, but as Ken suggests, more research is needed on my part.

However, I am not upgrading to this until MST3K support is in place, unless someone has a reasonable way of dealing with it. It's been suggested that one breaks up the information into 8x8 "chunks" - i.e., the lower 8 MAP rows and the left-most 8 RPM columns, and run MST3K with that information, and manually populate the final 12x12 table based on the four 8x8 MST3K-determined maps. It would work, but it's lots of effort...

[linuxman51]

I'm not sure on that either, but as Ken suggests, more research is needed on my part.

However, I am not upgrading to this until MST3K support is in place, unless someone has a reasonable way of dealing with it. It's been suggested that one breaks up the information into 8x8 "chunks" - i.e., the lower 8 MAP rows and the left-most 8 RPM columns, and run MST3K with that information, and manually populate the final 12x12 table based on the four 8x8 MST3K-determined maps. It would work, but it's lots of effort...

you've got a wideband, run that. mstweak should be updated for the new maps shortly, the guys doing the firmware have been talking to the author of mst3k

[Matt Dupuis]

Wideband or not, I've never liked tuning on the fly - I'm a strong believer in the MST3K method for several reasons. I'll do the final tuning and verification on the WB, of course, but having the ability to change RPM or MAP bins based on what the engine needs and just hit "calculate map" is such a luxury!

I tossed in a post on MSEFI in the MST3K section, and by the sounds of it the creator of the program isn't even aware of which version of Megatune we're on, and isn't really prioritizing 12x12 support any time soon. Maybe things will be changing based on the demand that'll surely come from MSnS-Extra... we'll see.

I'm still more interested in MSII - the 12x12 maps are nice and all, but everything's still too coarse for my liking. MSII will calculate RPM to the nearest 1 (vs. 100) and output pulsewidths to the nearest 1 us (vs. 0.1 ms), which will be far more important to me than the 12x12 (or 16x16) maps! When that comes out, Megasquirt will finally be accurate enough for my liking, and I'll be on that bitch SO FAST! But I'll still want MST3K...

[The Aspirator]

Wideband or not, I've never liked tuning on the fly - I'm a strong believer in the MST3K method for several reasons. I'll do the final tuning and verification on the WB, of course, but having the ability to change RPM or MAP bins based on what the engine needs and just hit "calculate map" is such a luxury!And I've done nothing but tuning on the fly....

About the RPM calculations, on this newest version (v271) of MegaTune, the tach gauge is called "high res RPM", so maybe that's already accurate to the 1. I'll find out in a few hours.

John

[Matt Dupuis]

And I've done nothing but tuning on the fly....

About the RPM calculations, on this newest version (v271) of MegaTune, the tach gauge is called "high res RPM", so maybe that's already accurate to the 1. I'll find out in a few hours.

John
I've preached enough about MST3K, and what benefits it brings. I ain't gonna belabour the point.

I don't think it's a big deal for Megatune to be accurate to the nearest 1, but I was under the impression that Megasquirt was only accurate to the 100, or rather it only calculated to the nearest 100. I could be wrong on that... If it's calculating RPM to the nearest 1 already, it's not too bad I suppose, even though all those decimels get chopped off when the time comes to squirt fuel. Still, you can't select an RPM bin that's not a multiple of 100 RPM, and the Realtime - Tuning screen doesn't operate finer than 100 RPM increments, and the datalogs only record in multiples of 100, so I don't think Megasquirt really cares about the nearest rev right now.

Before I went MSnE, I ran the high res code for a while. That ran much smoother at low RPM, but it used the horsepower required to generate injector PWM to do the extra injector resolution, so I had to run injector resistors, which I didn't like too much.

Man, I just upgraded to b263 a couple of days ago - they're up to b271 now? Dang, I can't wait until things stabilize for a while!

[The Aspirator]

I've preached enough about MST3K, and what benefits it brings. I ain't gonna belabour the point.I know I know, I just haven't gotten around to learning it and getting it to work quite yet. One day.

John

[the poi]

heh, ive never even touched mst3k. i spose i probably shouldve a while back, but eh. The nice thing about new MSnS, are three AFR target points. As far as tuning goes, I can just watch the EGO correction %, and tune the points until its 100% all over the map (although I need a driver or a dyno to pull it off, I'm just entirely lacking in the tune-n-drive category). Then its just a matter of fine tuning to what values ya what. then its off to spark tuning!

edit:// to clarify: i really wish i knew how to use mst3k

[The Aspirator]

Hey Poi, in your first post in this thread, where you posted your spark map, isn't that a LOT of timing for boost? Or is the car actually happy up there? I always though you had to yank a bunch of timing with boost, but maybe I'm wrong.

I've been driving for a few hours now with my 12x12 fuel and spark maps, and I completely love it! I still can't figure out the need for two maps, or how to switch between them, or wtf "rtfm" means Kenny. Ohh well.

John

[the poi]

Hey Poi, in your first post in this thread, where you posted your spark map, isn't that a LOT of timing for boost? Or is the car actually happy up there? I always though you had to yank a bunch of timing with boost, but maybe I'm wrong.

I've been driving for a few hours now with my 12x12 fuel and spark maps, and I completely love it! I still can't figure out the need for two maps, or how to switch between them, or wtf "rtfm" means Kenny. Ohh well.

Johnnaw, those were the deafult maps, i believe they're compatible wiht a supercharged rover v8 though :) I'd post mine, but they're mostly Kenny's maps, so I'll let him post em if he wants. As far as two maps, well, you can use them for staging injectors (one map for one rail, one for the other) and for the spark tables, itll switch to the other table with the NOS system active, or just by grounding X6 i think. I'm gonna be using mine with water injection (once **** on my car stops breaking), hopefully should be able to run a couple degs of advance whilst "sprayin"

[linuxman51]

Hey Poi, in your first post in this thread, where you posted your spark map, isn't that a LOT of timing for boost? Or is the car actually happy up there? I always though you had to yank a bunch of timing with boost, but maybe I'm wrong.

I've been driving for a few hours now with my 12x12 fuel and spark maps, and I completely love it! I still can't figure out the need for two maps, or how to switch between them, or wtf "rtfm" means Kenny. Ohh well.

John

rtfm.... read the ****in manual ;)

[The Aspirator]

Today I put 150 miles on my v.273 MSnSextra. I completely love it, my car is driving better than it ever has before. My ONLY complaint is that every time I power down megasquirt it "forgets" the firmware!!! So the only way I can start the car again is to re-flash the firmware and re-burn my saved map. It happened about 6 times today.

Any thoughts? Maybe I should send a message to Eric Fhalgren and see what he says about it. Or is it the "daxjeiro" guy that I need to be talking to?

Thanks,

John

rtfm.... read the ****in manual ;)Gotcha, makes sense.

[the poi]

Today I put 150 miles on my v.273 MSnSextra. I completely love it, my car is driving better than it ever has before. My ONLY complaint is that every time I power down megasquirt it "forgets" the firmware!!! So the only way I can start the car again is to re-flash the firmware and re-burn my saved map. It happened about 6 times today.

Any thoughts? Maybe I should send a message to Eric Fhalgren and see what he says about it. Or is it the "daxjeiro" guy that I need to be talking to?

Thanks,

John

Gotcha, makes sense.

jebus. thats not right... hmm, 019c and mtb273? (still running 271 myself, upgrade time!) Are you using hyperterminal with the "u" command to upgrade the firmware? Cause eaystherm's and download.exe's s command only "sometimes" works (and thats the technical explanation I got from Phil :-P :-P )

edit://you tricked me! there no b273! hee

[The Aspirator]

jebus. thats not right... hmm, 019c and mtb273? (still running 271 myself, upgrade time!) Are you using hyperterminal with the "u" command to upgrade the firmware? Cause eaystherm's and download.exe's s command only "sometimes" works (and thats the technical explanation I got from Phil :-P :-P )

edit://you tricked me! there no b273! heeOkay you're right, I'm using b271.

I've always used easytherm to flash, and it's worked flawlessly every time. I guess I'll try the hyperterminal, maybe it'll "burn it in harder!" than the easytherm. I just never figured out hyperterm, but with your instructions it'll probably be pretty simple. Though nothing's easier than easytherm!

I'll try hyperterm today and report back a few hours later. If you happen to talk to Phil or Eric, could you mention my problem to them?

John

[the poi]

Okay you're right, I'm using b271.

I've always used easytherm to flash, and it's worked flawlessly every time. I guess I'll try the hyperterminal, maybe it'll "burn it in harder!" than the easytherm. I just never figured out hyperterm, but with your instructions it'll probably be pretty simple. Though nothing's easier than easytherm!

I'll try hyperterm today and report back a few hours later. If you happen to talk to Phil or Eric, could you mention my problem to them?

John
ill pass it on, also, post it in the forum at msefi.com . As for the hyperterm flashing, its real nice, cause you can get into the bootloader just by sending "!!" so you dont even need to crack open the case

edit://but this is only with msns-extra and dual table code, so with older code, youll ahve to jumper manually, flash, and then you can use !!

[The Aspirator]

And here I just got back from radio shack where I bought a switch I'm going to solder in the bootloader pins.

John

[linuxman51]

And here I just got back from radio shack where I bought a switch I'm going to solder in the bootloader pins.

John

i didnt say you could steal my design

[swedefiend]

Doug: good luck with the USB->serial adapter, they're generally a crapshoot as far as function is concerned. The basic idea is, the more you spend the better chance you have of getting one that will work, but many of them just flat out dont cooperate. I had this problem and fixed it by getting a port-replicator for my laptop off of ebay, cost me 20$ and I never had to worry again. If you can find a replicator or a small docking station, definitely use it, otherwise, check out the usb-serial adapter thread in the MegaTune forum at www.msefi.com . Some people have had some success.

As far as going for goodies (anyone who's interested).... the latest stuff (as of, well, today) is as follows:

First step, get MegaTune, latest I've used is b171
http://www.not2fast.com/megasquirt/mt/prerelease/
Run the .exe and install it

Then, get the new code, for 019c
http://www.jsm-net.demon.co.uk/msns-extra/files/
Download the zip, download the .ini .

Extract the zip, put your thermfactor.inc in the folder, and run "Compile.bat" to make a new .s19 with your thermfactor.

Open up hyperterminal ( try Start->Run->C:\Program Files\Windows NT\HyperTerminal\HyperTrm.exe )

Power up your MS and plug it into your comp
Start a new connection, call it "MS" or something.
Change to "Connect Using: < your COM port >"
9600bps, 8db, no parity, 1 stop, no flow control
Now you should be connected to the MS.
Type an "A" and you should get some garbled data

Now, exit HT and copy all your settings down, use the old MT.

Then open your MS box (power it down first...), short the boot pins, and restart the MS.

Open up Hyperterminal, load your connection "MS".
You should see "Boot>"
Type a "w" (shoudl see "wipe completed")
Type a "u" (should see "waiting")
Go to Transfer->Send Text File (MUST be "text file")
Make sure its showing "all files" and find your .s19 file that you updated with your thermfactor. Select it.
Wait a while, its uploading, when done, it'll say "completed"

Now power off your MS.

Copy that .ini file you downloaded into the mtcfg folder of MT171, say yes to the overwrite.
Now go to the Car1 folder (rename it if you like) and open the settings.ini file.

change the sets and unsets to what describes your config (most important, unset MS1 and set MSNS-extra)

Now start up the MS, and start the new MT, and everything should work just dandy. Copy in your new settings and you're good to go.


And in about 12 or so hours from when you started this process, there'll probably be some new code out :-D




edit://Blast, neglected to address the knock sensing and launch control. For that, you're gonna have to do some soldering. Go here for the circuit diagrams: http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=3489 . The MSnS forum at msefi.com is pretty much the place to be to keep an eye on the updated versions

I feel this thread deserves resurrection because I was able to do in ten minutes what had taken me hours on end of reading and carefull tinkering. Thanks to the Poi for these instructions. I think that it should have its own thread. Perhaps I will start one tomorrow or maybe someone else will beat me to it. In any case, Thanks to Poi for the excellent directions.

As far as the USB adapter goes, I am using one on one of the most notoriously finicky laptops - an Inspiron 5100. The brand is Keyspan (39.99 - CompUSA) and it comes with a utility to help you set it up. My other adapter tried to hijack other com ports all of the time. This one is set to 4 and never forgets it's settings.

[the poi]

thanks for the kind words swede :) Glanced over the directions again, and aside from new versions, it appears its still accurate, glad it was useful!

[The Aspirator]

Yeah those directions are wickedly straightforward. I never understood hyperterminal until I read those :roll: . But I've had NO problems just using EasyTherm.

John