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AndrewNance
11-13-2012, 11:48 AM
So I'll embarrassingly admit that I forgot my stock B18 intake and exhaust manifolds were actually one piece.

Yeah, so is there anywhere to find a separate, intake-only manifold so that I can run an aftermarket header?

Is it possible to have a metal shop separate the two and grind the intake manifold down flat? I mean the two manifolds obviously can't run together so i seems as if the exhaust part of the piece could just be cut off. Any opinions?

Redwood Chair
11-13-2012, 11:51 AM
Sounds like you have a B20 siamese manifold.
You can cut that in half and run it with a B18 intake or do what most people do run it with a late B20 EFI exhaust manifold.

AndrewNance
11-13-2012, 11:54 AM
I've got a Stahl header I bought from MikeJr a while back that I want to use after I get it ceramic coated. I've had those manifolds and carbs off several times and I'm kind of ashamed that I went out this morning expecting to pull the intake and leave the exhaust there :oops:

JohnMc
11-13-2012, 11:55 AM
Yep, it is possible to saw them in half.

Or get on ebay and find a B18 aluminum intake manifold.

The dual downpipe OEM manifolds actually flow very nicely. Unless you're highly modified it's possible it would be better than a header. What header were you looking at?

AndrewNance
11-13-2012, 11:58 AM
I searched Ebay for a while but all I found was a B20 K-jet intake and an intake with two DCOEs strapped to it for $1500. The header I have is a Stahl.

JohnMc
11-13-2012, 11:59 AM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VOLVO-64-B18-INTAKE-MANIFOLD-/281014075882?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item416dbe81ea&vxp=mtr

or, you know you want to (although this price is ridic):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WEBER-42-DCOE-SIDE-DRAFT-CARBURETOR-INTAKE-MANIFOLD-VOLVO-P1800-122-B18-B20-/261125674258?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3ccc4d9512&vxp=mtr

AndrewNance
11-13-2012, 12:00 PM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VOLVO-64-B18-INTAKE-MANIFOLD-/281014075882?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item416dbe81ea&vxp=mtr


Maybe I should've searched better than "Volvo 122 intake"...

I think I could have mine modified for cheaper than $115 though. There's a good metal shop in town that did my control arms for like $40 and I don't even need anything welded this time around.

BigMatteson
11-13-2012, 12:00 PM
Boat intakes for the B18/20's are two-piece. Here's (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Volvo-Penta-B20-AQ-130-Carburetor-Intake-Manifold-Might-Fit-Others-/130787866501?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item1e73907785&vxp=mtr) one for $38.99 OBO.Here's (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Volvo-Penta-B130-Intake-Manifold-Solex-/170939810871?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item27ccce8437&vxp=mtr) one for $22 OBO. Here's (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Volvo-Penta-AQ-125-130-Carburetor-Intake-Manifold-1-824647-/160921468929?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item2577aac001&vxp=mtr) one for $50 with dual down drafts included! Granted, these are designed for use with Solex carbs, but I don't see why an adapter plate would be hard to find or fab. Just some ideas:e-shrug:

AndrewNance
11-13-2012, 12:04 PM
Boat intakes for the B18/20's are two-piece. Here's (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Volvo-Penta-B20-AQ-130-Carburetor-Intake-Manifold-Might-Fit-Others-/130787866501?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item1e73907785&vxp=mtr) one for $38.99 OBO.Here's (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Volvo-Penta-B130-Intake-Manifold-Solex-/170939810871?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item27ccce8437&vxp=mtr) one for $22 OBO. Here's (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Volvo-Penta-AQ-125-130-Carburetor-Intake-Manifold-1-824647-/160921468929?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item2577aac001&vxp=mtr) one for $50 with dual down drafts included! Granted, these are designed for use with Solex carbs, but I don't see why an adapter plate would be hard to find or fab. Just some ideas:e-shrug:


Damn, at that price I'd buy one of those just to see if they'd work with SUs. The only problem is that the ones for cars have a port for the PCV breather and two mounting holes for the carb linkage to attach to.

Edit: You know what you should do is buy one of those and I'll give you those SUs you traded me back and you can make a boat car for your son too! No more K-jet MPG bull****!

BigMatteson
11-13-2012, 12:08 PM
Damn, at that price I'd buy one of those just to see if they'd work with SUs. The only problem is that the ones for cars have a port for the PCV breather and two mounting holes for the carb linkage to attach to.
It wouldn't be hard to tap the backside of the manifold to allow for PCV or mounting points. That's exactly what I did for mine. My mani has the log(for lack of a better term) that joins the two plenums(?) and I tapped into that for vacuum ports and mounting points.

JohnMc
11-13-2012, 12:14 PM
I don't think you can lay SU's on their side and expect them to work properly, even if you can tilt the float bowls on an HS6. The oil will pour out of the dampers.

The price is a bit high on the B18 manifold, but look around some, you should be able to find one for less.

AndrewNance
11-13-2012, 12:16 PM
Well here it is:

http://i.imgur.com/nKDLL.jpg?1

So I'd have to have the mount for the linkage welded onto it rather than just tapped into it because I'm not sure how well the linkage would work if I moved it, as far as binding up and what not. Basically, I'm not sure if the linkage is flexible enough to adapt to that. I'd be willing to give it a whirl but I'd still probably have as much money in paying someone to weld that as I would in just having mine split in half.

Then there's the differences between SUs and Solexs which I have no idea about. That's where I'd need the custom Solex-to-SU adapter plates which I'm sure would be $$$. Why couldn't there just be an SU-powered penta motor?

BigMatteson
11-13-2012, 12:22 PM
I don't think you can lay SU's on their side and expect them to work properly, even if you can tilt the float bowls on an HS6. The oil will pour out of the dampers.


That's a very good point. Possibly an angled flange would work, but you'd need a Buchka to make it for you. I doubt the machine shops near us would try it without lots of hand-holding and money.
Me: I need two angled flanges to mount these 1960's automobile carbs to this boat intake manifold. I have the design drawn with measurements. I just need someone to mill them for me.

Machinist::wtf: Uhhh, is this for a Chevy? I can do Chevy. Whut's it for again?:wtf: A Volvo?:wtf: Uhhhh, I gotta check with the boss about this. Cletus! This guy wants a flange for a Volvo!

Cletus::wtf:Whut the hell fer? It ain't a Chevy!

Me::roll:

JohnMc
11-13-2012, 12:23 PM
The Solex is a downdraft, those manifold may or may not have a similar bolt pattern, the main issue is that the carb mounting face is pointing straight up, not over to the side.

Either have the intake chunk sawed free from the exhaust chunk, or look around for more than 10 seconds for a B18 manifold.

AndrewNance
11-13-2012, 12:28 PM
That's a very good point. Possibly an angled flange would work, but you'd need a Buchka to make it for you. I doubt the machine shops near us would try it without lots of hand-holding and money.
Me: I need two angled flanges to mount these 1960's automobile carbs to this boat intake manifold. I have the design drawn with measurements. I just need someone to mill them for me.

Machinist::wtf: Uhhh, is this for a Chevy? I can do Chevy. Whut's it for again?:wtf: A Volvo?:wtf: Uhhhh, I gotta check with the boss about this. Cletus! This guy wants a flange for a Volvo!

Cletus::wtf:Whut the hell fer? It ain't a Chevy!

Me::roll:

:rofl:

A little off topic but while I was at the driveshaft shop I asked them about rebuilding my M41 shaft so he checked his shelf for U-joints and they actually had 6 of them. The guy yelled to some other guy in the shop : "Hey we have u-joints for uhhh...what was it?"

Me: "'67"

Guy: "'67 Volvo!"

Anyway, I'll just take the manifolds down to the metal works and let them grind it off for me. It'd be pointless to spend the extra money for another manifold.

BigMatteson
11-13-2012, 12:30 PM
I see what you mean about the throttle linkage. I guess waiting for a cheap B18 intake to turn up is your only option. An adapter flange is out of the question because it'd be more expensive than waiting for the right parts to turn up.

Redwood Chair
11-13-2012, 12:37 PM
Smokey tossed a bunch of those B18 intakes.

Typically they go for $75-ish in good shape, and if you're lucky you'll get one in the JY with the linkage.

Here's a freshening up picture.

Lapping the surfaces on #600 and chasing the threads.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh136/redwoodchair/82%20245%20GLT/82245GLTPaint184.jpg

AndrewNance
11-13-2012, 12:39 PM
Yeah the first time I met him was not long after he tossed a bunch of stuff I could've used, like B20s and stuff. I should've joined sooner.

Redwood Chair
11-13-2012, 12:43 PM
Skeeze=bay 100$ (http://www.ebay.com/itm/VOLVO-64-B18-INTAKE-MANIFOLD-/281014075882?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item416dbe81ea&vxp=mtr)

AndrewNance
11-13-2012, 12:44 PM
Yeah, John linked that one. I just think I could get mine split for cheaper than $100+shipping. I'll have to take it down there and ask them about it. Plus I PM'd Mike to see if he still has any of those by chance. Thanks for the help though, fellas.

JohnMc
11-13-2012, 12:47 PM
At least your steel intake doesn't have the secondary throttle valves. Later model ones had those, it diverted the air flow through the center warmed section at idle for better idle emissions. They opened when the pedal went down, but still were some slight flow bottleneck I think.

Redwood Chair
11-13-2012, 12:49 PM
Yeah the first time I met him was not long after he tossed a bunch of stuff I could've used, like B20s and stuff. I should've joined sooner.

There's one here (http://www.picknpull.com/check_inventory.aspx?Address=95354&Lat=37.634697&Lng=-120.970423&Make=Volvo&Model=120+Series&Distance=200) in the Windsor PnP junk yard.

329-1 (http://www.picknpull.com/part_pricing.aspx?LocationID=61&Language=English&NavItem=8&SearchCriteria=&#partpricing)

$35 ish out the door with the $2 to get in.

Not a bad price RPR used to sell the intake or exhaust for $150 ea so $75 is definitely a bro price.

Redwood Chair
11-13-2012, 12:51 PM
Yeah, John linked that one. I just think I could get mine split for cheaper than $100+shipping. I'll have to take it down there and ask them about it. Plus I PM'd Mike to see if he still has any of those by chance. Thanks for the help though, fellas.

Reportedly the later EFI exhaust manifold flows the best.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh136/redwoodchair/140%20parts/140B20FExhaustMani1.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh136/redwoodchair/140%20parts/140B20ExhaustMani2.jpg

AndrewNance
11-13-2012, 12:54 PM
Those Cali yards...

AndrewNance
11-13-2012, 12:55 PM
Reportedly the later EFI exhaust manifold flows the best.

I had the original exhaust manifold for my '74 B20 but I sold it a while back, having no intentions of using it.:nod:

Redwood Chair
11-13-2012, 01:07 PM
Those Cali yards...

I do what I can to pass the bounty along...

:)

Maybe post in wanted and start another 'race to the bottom'?

:lol:

<---:run:

AndrewNance
11-13-2012, 01:10 PM
Hey I finally found that pesky 140 SU air cleaner box on Ebay for $26. :lol:

Woo!

AndrewNance
11-13-2012, 01:10 PM
dp.

Redwood Chair
11-13-2012, 01:14 PM
Hey I finally found that pesky 140 SU air cleaner box on Ebay for $26. :lol:

Woo!

:nice:

Did you get the peskier trumpet intake snorkel, pre-heat box, and collar as well?

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh136/redwoodchair/140%20parts/140B20Snorkel1.jpg

AndrewNance
11-13-2012, 01:16 PM
No, I won't use 'em on the 122 anyway. I just know my filter options are better with the airbox. No more $90 throw-away replacement filters and no more K&Ns that have to be modified to even work with PCV. Although I did find the air cleaner like two days after I bought one of those PCV breather attachments for SUs. Typical :roll:

Redwood Chair
11-13-2012, 01:17 PM
Aren't you going to run the intake out into the fresh air?

AndrewNance
11-13-2012, 01:18 PM
Aren't you going to run the intake out into the fresh air?

I thought about it but I heard the incoming air needed to be slightly pre-heated? I don't know if there's any truth to that. Plus there isn't much room for all that behind the grill area. Although when I did consider it, I had imagined using modified IC piping so it would have less of a tendency to become brittle over time.

Redwood Chair
11-13-2012, 01:26 PM
It's mostly useful for warm up in a cold climate.
The bi-metallic spring is designed to regulate the incoming air to 80º.
Generally the spring is removed, and the flap caulked in place.
Like the later style pre-heat stuff it's prone to failure, with burned B20 exhaust valves being the result instead of a fried AMM.

The 140 snorkel has a thru-hole rubber grommet for the header panel, and is all figured out and done.

AndrewNance
11-13-2012, 01:29 PM
It's mostly useful for warm up in a cold climate.
The bi-metallic spring is designed to regulate the incoming air to 80º.
Like the later style pre-heat stuff it's prone to failure, with burned B20 exhaust valves being the result instead of a fried AMM.

The 140 snorkel has a thru-hole rubber grommet for the header panel, and is all figured out and done.

Do you have a picture of all of that hooked up in a 140? I can picture it in my head but I'm more interested in size reference. I still might go with an intake through the front and into the grille area. Although I'm not sure of the benefit I'd get from that other than it looking pretty neat :e-shrug:

Redwood Chair
11-13-2012, 02:52 PM
Cold air and a little positive intake pressure is always a good thing.

I sold my last B20 intake piping to swiftjustice, but still have some D-jet stuff that's a larger diameter tube.

AndrewNance
11-13-2012, 05:21 PM
I'll have to wait until the cleaner box gets here to see how big the opening is but I have an idea that I can make a turbo intake from an x70 work, provided the diameter is equal.

Fivehundred
11-13-2012, 05:44 PM
Why not just bolt the SUs to the manifold you have? Those twin downpipe manifolds work exceptionally well.

Redwood Chair
11-13-2012, 06:08 PM
Why not just bolt the SUs to the manifold you have? Those twin downpipe manifolds work exceptionally well.

This is the land of Tbricks where 'stock' is an evil dirty word.

JohnMc
11-13-2012, 06:22 PM
I mentioned on the previous page that it's probably better than most headers. Is a Stahl a 4:1 style header? The stock manifold is a 4:2:1 style, properly pulse paired, and with good lengths on the pairings as well. Most high dollar 4:2:1 headers use similar lengths, just larger tubing diameters for highly modified engines. most 4:1 style manifolds are jsut for the looks.

For the record, i have a 4:1 header on my PV too. But I was replacing the single downpipe style B18 exhaust manifold which flows poorly. And I only paid $73 (shipped) for the thing, brand new, from Amazon.com. Patriot brand, came with a *much* better looking collector than internet pics would lead you to believe, very solid functional chunk of tubing.

lummert
11-13-2012, 06:32 PM
Well here it is:

http://i.imgur.com/nKDLL.jpg?1

So I'd have to have the mount for the linkage welded onto it rather than just tapped into it because I'm not sure how well the linkage would work if I moved it, as far as binding up and what not. Basically, I'm not sure if the linkage is flexible enough to adapt to that. I'd be willing to give it a whirl but I'd still probably have as much money in paying someone to weld that as I would in just having mine split in half.

Then there's the differences between SUs and Solexs which I have no idea about. That's where I'd need the custom Solex-to-SU adapter plates which I'm sure would be $$$. Why couldn't there just be an SU-powered penta motor?

What does the header look like?

JohnMc
11-13-2012, 06:35 PM
???
http://www.stahlheaders.com/Web050P,51P_1.html

AndrewNance
11-13-2012, 06:43 PM
???
http://www.stahlheaders.com/Web050P,51P_1.html

Yeah. Pretty much that top one.

For the record, I didn't know I even had a manifold that wasn't original to the motor. I just assumed I had the same one that every other B18 got. When my B20 is done it will have a ported F head with a Schneider 274 cam and stock F head valves. That motor is what all of this is for. So now I'm more curious as to which exhaust will flow better with that setup.

Redwood Chair
11-13-2012, 07:49 PM
This is as close as I have on the 140 intake routing.
An initial trumpet / venturi extending to the outer side of the header panel for 'ram air' and the other various parts to the box.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh136/redwoodchair/145%20Volvo/Red70145Engine.jpg

Fivehundred
11-13-2012, 08:00 PM
The header won't give you more power with that camshaft, at least not in my experience. What you'll likely end up doing is move the power band up the rev range. A 274 degree duration cam is fairly mild. Personally I'd bolt on the cast iron manifold, fit the SUs and call the job a good 'un.

AndrewNance
11-13-2012, 08:11 PM
Yeah its a 2k-6k cam. I wanted to remain streetable but still be fun. Well I'll look into just keeping the manifold I have and maybe ceramic coating it.

FattMatt805
11-14-2012, 05:12 AM
I will check the shed when i go home for thanksgiving, i think i might have what you need

JohnMc
11-14-2012, 10:06 AM
I'm such a bad salesman. I sold the SU's and alu manifold, and linkage off my PV to a fellow StL PV owner (who's restoring a bit-in-boxes car which should look mint when done) for something like $50.

AndrewNance
11-14-2012, 10:12 AM
I've got a spare set of SUs somewhere at my dad's that Matteson gave me on partial trade for an M46. I want to say they're on a manifold but I really can't remember.

JohnMc
11-14-2012, 10:16 AM
Just have to check them for throttle shaft bore wear. I think perhaps they worked a little better with leaded gas (although the gas doesn't really go there, so maybe not) - but running a brass throttle shaft straight on a cast aly carb body wasn't a great idea in terms of wear.

The shaft wears the alu holes into ovals, then air leaks through. Mostly at idle, leaning the mixture, which is an issue because the vast majority of people will fine tune the mixture at idle, the leaks then make it run rich off idle.

And then they get bad enough for the throttle valves to start hanging up and not returning cleanly to idle...

There are places that can drill and bush them, though.

AndrewNance
11-14-2012, 10:18 AM
Just have to check them for throttle shaft bore wear. I think perhaps they worked a little better with leaded gas (although the gas doesn't really go there, so maybe not) - but running a brass throttle shaft straight on a cast aly carb body wasn't a great idea in terms of wear.

The shaft wears the alu holes into ovals, then air leaks through. Mostly at idle, leaning the mixture, which is an issue because the vast majority of people will fine tune the mixture at idle, the leaks then make it run rich off idle.

And then they get bad enough for the throttle valves to start hanging up and not returning cleanly to idle...

There are places that can drill and bush them, though.

Yeah I already ran into that problem not long after I got the car. I had them rebuilt and rebushed though. So now I'm thinking I'll just stick with the iron manifold and sell my header to furnish some time with JetHot.

JohnMc
11-14-2012, 10:27 AM
I think you'll be better off with the cast mani. Just hook it up to a nice open decently sized exhaust system. 2.25" is fine. 2.5" if you plan on making 200 hp (which isn't easy).

Not endorsing the seller (buyer beware), but here's a look at John Parker's (v-performance) new 4:2:1 header. He developed a new one, and says it's dyno proven to increase HP vs. his older one. The interesting part is that the newer one has a smaller section of pipe at the 2:1 collector, then opens up after that. Makes me think that even if the stock DP's 2:1 collector is a little smaller, it's still good to hook it to a larger exhaust. Exhaust gas velocity through the 2:1 collector area and then on into the more open tubing beyond.

http://www.v-performance.com/content_files/4_3_11%20010_1.jpg
http://www.v-performance.com/content_files/4_3_11%20020_1_s.jpg

I was trying to get one of those for the PV, but John said he was in short supply, and wanted to keep the ones on hand for replacements as needed for his racing car customers, but that he was having another batch made up. I didn't want to wait (took the old thing down to SE), so I got an el-cheapo 4:1 style header on Amazon. Someone must have been closing out their supply or something, $64, $73 shipped. I half expected to get a gasket or a flange in the mail, but no, it was a complete, solid, well made mild steel header. I chopped off the 3 bolt flange, welded on a v-band flange, bolted it up.

AndrewNance
11-14-2012, 10:35 AM
That looks nice but John Parker won't see any of my money, just from what I've heard, although I was able to get him to exchange emails with me one time.

I figure with the 122 being so low, using the stock manifold will force me to have a custom downpipe built so they can tuck it as close to the car as possible. That would've been hard to shorten the pre-built header. My plan is to have the downpipe built with 2-2" tubes that collect into a 2.5" all the way back. I'll have it built with no muffler while I decide what I want to put in it eventually.