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towerymt
11-21-2004, 06:24 PM
Mike Perry cobbled a bracket to fit under the radiator overflow bottle so I could bolt up a piece of 1/2"x20 threaded rod attached with a heim joint to a '76 B21 air pump bracket on the head. Works pretty well, and the engine is now very solidly held in place. It's mounted up high on the engine, which is good idea if you're going to build a mount.

The bracket on the head uses standard rubber accessory bushings in the two openings, and one old bushing cut to fit the gap next to the heim joint. On the other end, I'm using what look to be sway bar mounting bushings, donated by Mike. The steel bracket has bushings on both ends, so there is give in the support, both when the engine pulls and pushes against it.

I just went for a short drive, and noticed a lot of vibration at idle. I have too much preload on the bushings. I am going to use two nuts, locked together, to locate the bushings so I can almost remove the preload, but still get good support when the motor moves.

Thanks to my two "helpers", Rob and Dana, it's going to be very difficult to make these adjustments because of the way they installed the bushings and associated retaining washers. And I'm glad I didn't take Rob's suggestion to cut an inch off the threaded rod, because then I'd have too little excess on the end to fit two nuts and a lock washer if need be. ;-)

http://mason.gmu.edu/~mtowery/volvo/240/3rd/MVC-529F1.jpg

http://mason.gmu.edu/~mtowery/volvo/240/3rd/MVC-531F1.jpg

http://mason.gmu.edu/~mtowery/volvo/240/3rd/MVC-530F1.jpg

http://mason.gmu.edu/~mtowery/volvo/240/3rd/MVC-533F1.jpg

http://mason.gmu.edu/~mtowery/volvo/240/3rd/MVC-532F1.jpg

http://mason.gmu.edu/~mtowery/volvo/240/3rd/MVC-534F1.jpg

Rad overflow tank bracket in place. No modification needed.
http://mason.gmu.edu/~mtowery/volvo/240/3rd/MVC-535F1.jpg

http://mason.gmu.edu/~mtowery/volvo/240/3rd/MVC-538F1.jpg


Installation pictures here:
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=28645

boostdemon
11-21-2004, 07:17 PM
i think some WD40 would help make that adjustment a bit easier :-P

just loosen the outter one and slide the bushings you wuss! How was the ride home with that plus the new front springs?

Hank Scorpio
11-21-2004, 07:20 PM
I like it Mike... wouldn't work for a turbo car but I've been trying to figure out something similar. Best solution I had was to basicly add a hiem joint style welding tab to the strut tower brace and then a bracket kinda up/above the cam cover.

Very cool though bud

towerymt
11-21-2004, 07:55 PM
just loosen the outter one and slide the bushings you wuss! How was the ride home with that plus the new front springs?
Yeah, thanks. It's the metal washer that had to be ground on one side to fit in against the bracket, on the bushing. It's jammed on there because it wasn't drilled out large enough, even though we already knew it needed to be drilled out more. The problem it posed today was when I tried to thread the rod into the heim joint, after I took it apart. It was almost impossible because that washer doesn't turn, and it's too big to spin with the stud. Once I did get the threaded rod started into the heim, I had to lock two nuts together just to turn the rod.

Yeah, I don't know what I'm doing. :roll:

It made noise at idle on the way home because I hadn't added anything to fill the gap next to the heim, but otherwise it was fine.

Ride is good. Updates were posted in the showroom coilover thread.

mikep
11-21-2004, 09:02 PM
I didn't keep track of time spent, but it was probably 1.5 hr total assessing, torching, grinding, welding, and installing. Do you concur?

I would have liked to match the end angle to the rod, but it was hard to visualize, and the bracket had to fit just so.

loudpower
11-21-2004, 10:35 PM
http://mason.gmu.edu/~mtowery/volvo/240/3rd/MVC-532F1.jpg

Mmm.... Camber plates.... Me want...

Yeah good design, Is this handling mod better than my "issac strap"?

stylngle2003
11-21-2004, 11:01 PM
looks good mikes!

good to see the east coast fabrication team at work again

towerymt
11-21-2004, 11:52 PM
I didn't keep track of time spent, but it was probably 1.5 hr total assessing, torching, grinding, welding, and installing. Do you concur?
Yeah, you overbuilt it. ;-) I was expecting a much smaller contraption, more like a right angle piece without the support uprights and added length under the rad bottle. Do you think it would have been strong enough as just one piece bent 90? I'm more than satisfied with the fit and installation.

towerymt
11-22-2004, 12:01 AM
http://mason.gmu.edu/~mtowery/volvo/240/3rd/MVC-532F1.jpg

Mmm.... Camber plates.... Me want...

Yeah good design, Is this handling mod better than my "issac strap"?
Thanks for reposting this picture. I just noticed I left a 1/2" jam nut sitting on one of the studs from the camber plates. This was before I drove around for a while today, and it was still there when I just went to check.

Yes, a little better than the ratchet strap, which I had previously on the intake manifold.

Three Fat Tigers
11-22-2004, 12:50 AM
Looks really good. When I had the one on my '76 adjusted correctly the idle wasn't any worse than without.

loudpower
11-22-2004, 09:56 AM
Thanks for reposting this picture. I just noticed I left a 1/2" jam nut sitting on one of the studs from the camber plates. This was before I drove around for a while today, and it was still there when I just went to check.

Yes, a little better than the ratchet strap, which I had previously on the intake manifold.

Hey.
Glad I can help....
So in which way does this help? Cornering? Or just overall stiffness?

yorkbrick
11-22-2004, 11:40 AM
yeh, that thing aint moven

MikeHardy
11-22-2004, 11:50 AM
So in which way does this help? Cornering? Or just overall stiffness?240's have a problem with breaking engine mountings. even with new ones in my engine sometimes catch's the clutch master cyl when i set off hard.

as the engine trys to rotate the left mount is streched and this happens

http://www.pbase.com/ravennexus/image/35364523/medium.jpg

n xntrx volvo
11-22-2004, 11:59 AM
any thoughts on replacing the frame end with a joint to prevent it from snapping about 1-2 in in from it from fatigue?

mikep
11-22-2004, 12:27 PM
Yeah, you overbuilt it. ;-) I was expecting a much smaller contraption, more like a right angle piece without the support uprights and added length under the rad bottle.
I was thinking of 20psi and nitrous.

MikeHardy
11-22-2004, 12:29 PM
i'd be into a bolt on version if one could be made. i'm already sick of the engine tapping my master cyl. not even got around to MS and turbo yet

pwschuh
11-22-2004, 12:34 PM
Mike Perry cobbled a bracket...

heh heh, Michael called you a cobbler...

towerymt
11-22-2004, 03:02 PM
heh heh, Michael called you a cobbler...
He likes it when I talk hamster to him.

mikep
11-22-2004, 04:47 PM
I am the cobblemaster.


Maybe Michael can publish a drawing of the "prototype" bracket.
hmmmm....bolts...who woulda thought?
Seriously, it would need something welded on at the bolt holes to prevent cracking, and there isn't any way to put bolts on the part of the body closest to the engine.

740Weapon
11-22-2004, 06:23 PM
if thats "neccissary" with an n/a motor i would hate to know what my engine does at 16 psi with motor mounts of unknown age and questionable quality.

Hank Scorpio
11-22-2004, 06:35 PM
if thats "neccissary" with an n/a motor i would hate to know what my engine does at 16 psi with motor mounts of unknown age and questionable quality.

better than a 240 @ 25psi and new motor mounts. (740's designs are much better btw).

MikeHardy
11-22-2004, 06:38 PM
see my broken mount post above. thats B21A power baby

chas740
11-22-2004, 06:49 PM
My engine sometimes shakes like a defecating canine - and it's standard!

towerymt
11-22-2004, 07:01 PM
if thats "neccissary" with an n/a motor i would hate to know what my engine does at 16 psi with motor mounts of unknown age and questionable quality.
You don't have a 240...

The vibration is much better after loosening the pressure on the bushings. However, there exists one small design flaw. The stud rubs on the plate, where it goes through the hole. I'm almost certain this is what causes the nasty noise/vibration at my low idle speed of 500-700rpm. At about 900rpm, it doesn't do it, but w/o the help of an IACV, the idle is low.

The primary purpose of this mount is to keep the motor from ripping apart the mounts. The secondary purpose is to prevent wheel hop, when said mounts seperate.

towerymt
01-01-2005, 09:47 PM
I finally made time to paint the bracket today. It was about 65F today. Started with some wire-wheeling with the dremel & drill to clear the rust, then masked, shot two coats of primer, two coats of Dupli-color white wheel paint (all I had around). Looks a bit better now.

Before:
http://mason.gmu.edu/~mtowery/volvo/240/3rd/MVC-711before.JPG

During:
http://mason.gmu.edu/~mtowery/volvo/240/3rd/MVC-712during.JPG

After:
http://mason.gmu.edu/~mtowery/volvo/240/3rd/MVC-713after.JPG

I made a plastic insert to isolate the stud from the bracket, using a piece of a common 35mm film canister. Works OK, not quite as much vibration at idle.

http://mason.gmu.edu/~mtowery/volvo/240/3rd/MVC-708insert.jpg

coldfusion21
01-01-2005, 11:54 PM
what about making a bracket, or backets that bolt to the stock motor mount locations and then move towards teh wheels wells like 12 inches or so, then go to a motor mount and into the cross memeber? i havnt really even looked to see if that would fit, but it would fix the problem of the mounts being so close to each other, which to me seems to be the reason mounts shred so much.

towerymt
01-02-2005, 01:18 AM
what about making a bracket, or backets that bolt to the stock motor mount locations and then move towards teh wheels wells like 12 inches or so, then go to a motor mount and into the cross memeber? i havnt really even looked to see if that would fit, but it would fix the problem of the mounts being so close to each other, which to me seems to be the reason mounts shred so much.
That's a lot of fabrication. However, I've seen a V8 in a 240 with motor mount brackets hung off the frame rails, right where the engine cross member bolts up.

towerymt
10-17-2007, 07:29 PM
*update with working pictures*

I haven't replaced the engine mounts since the 3rd mount was installed. The engine mounts are beginning to split, but they aren't failing quickly and catastrophically like they otherwise would.

These are the old pictures of the first version. It worked, but was far from ideal. Way too much vibration transmitted through the car. The small rubber sway bar bushings are too hard and the threaded rod going through the brace created noise/vibration.

3904

3905

3906

3907

3908

Redwood Chair
10-17-2007, 07:35 PM
So where's your home brew towery and firewall braces?

towerymt
10-17-2007, 07:36 PM
Here's the latest, and current version. Old intake side motor mount (top plate ripped off) bolted to the brace on the chassis. The threaded rod sticks about 1" past the 2 rubber sway bar bushings which are retained by the washer and nut on the threaded rod. The protruding rod goes into a hole drilled into the engine mount. I'm able to preload the threaded rod against the engine mount w/o getting any extra vibration. It's actually the sway bar bushings pressing against the motor mount that gives most of the support.

3909

towerymt
10-17-2007, 07:47 PM
wouldn't work for a turbo car but I've been trying to figure out something similar.
took me almost two years, but the IC piping fits.


3910