Redrilling hubs/rotors for new bolt pattern

[Super1800GTR]

I've been thinking about this for a while now. With spacers you are still limited to the type, size & offset of wheels you can use. With adaptors you are still limited to the offset. I want a DEEP DISH mesh type wheel (16/17 x 8/8.5 rear & 16/17 x 7.5/8 front). I see some sweet wheels on e-bay all the time that I want for less than 1K... but they are 5x114.3. What are the issues with having hubs welded & redrilled for a different bolt pattern?
How would I deal with the brake rotors? I wonder if there's a similar sized rotor in that bolt pattern that would fit.
Would this be a cost effective upgrade?

Thaks
Rob

[boostdemon]

you can get the adapters made to fit them to your car.. most 114.3 wheels are in the 35-45 offset range which would require a 20-25mm adapter anyways.

[Super1800GTR]

True... but I'd like something like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6755&item=4529493606&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
or this (16x8 &5x114.3):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6755&item=4529495144&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Rob

[MattP]

I you are having the hubs drilled why not the rotors at the same time. I doubt there is even a strength issue on the hubs with the .25" change. What JDM car uses a +5 or a +8 offset? Are you sure they are going to work on your car?

[towerymt]

No welding needed on the hub, I don't think. Just drill the new pattern offset so it's between the holes of the other pattern. If it's a 5-bolt, it still has the same pentagonal pattern, just makes a larger or smaller circle.

To redrill a wheel, it may need welding (fill & drill) because there are pockets on the back side of the mounting face, between the lug holes. Therefore there wouldn't be enough material to drill between existing holes.

The holes in the brake rotor are much larger than the stud size (I just had a wheel off today, and was looking for noises...noticed the rotor holes are quite large). So just redrill the rotor, too. A centered and precise drilling will probably leave it balanced, or close enough.

I just brought this subject up in Dan's FS thread about the 5x120 BBS wheels. It seems straight forward and simple for a good machinist. I've read of one case where a person had the center bore of a wheel enlarged on a lathe for $40/set...in case the wheels you get won't fit over the hub center.

Do it! And let us know how much it costs and how well it all works out.

[Super1800GTR]

Thanks Mike. It would still be nice to find a set of rotors that would fit... I don't want to have to pay to have them redrilled every time I do the brakes.

What's the center bore for Volvo's again? What's it for Nissans? I'm looking for an aftermarket wheel that would be used on later model 240sx's, skylines, etc.

Right now my msw's are 15x7 et12mm. My old wheels were 17x7.5 et20 w/ 235 tires & they rubbed on the inside a little. I think 7.5-8in wide in the rear with a +10-15mm offset and a 235 tire would be perfect (with a little fender widening :). ). 7-7.5in wide in the front with a 225 wide tire and +15-20mm offset would be ideal i think. I want to try and get rid of the sunk in look the rear wheels have on 240s.

I also know that some wheels require the correct lugnuts inorder for them to bolt down correctly. When redrilling the new holes should I go ahead & find a set of longer aftermarket studs and nuts made for the specific model car?? Or just use some longer ARP's like you have Mike?

Thanks
Rob

PS.. anyone care to donate some hubs for the cause?

[towerymt]

...I don't want to have to pay to have them redrilled every time I do the brakes.
Pay for one, do the rest on a drill press.

What's the center bore for Volvo's again?
65mm, last I checked.

Right now my msw's are 15x7 et12mm. My old wheels were 17x7.5 et20 w/ 235 tires & they rubbed on the inside a little. I think 7.5-8in wide in the rear with a +10-15mm offset and a 235 tire would be perfect (with a little fender widening :). ). 7-7.5in wide in the front with a 225 wide tire and +15-20mm offset would be ideal i think. I want to try and get rid of the sunk in look the rear wheels have on 240s.
I have MSW's with the same specs...agressive on the front. 15-20 on a 7-7.5" on the front is good. Chris (242GTMD) has ET7 7.5"s with 235/40 on the rear (after factoring in spacers), trimmed fender lips, lowered, no rub. I'd aim for ET10 on 7.5" or 8".

I also know that some wheels require the correct lugnuts inorder for them to bolt down correctly. When redrilling the new holes should I go ahead & find a set of longer aftermarket studs and nuts made for the specific model car?? Or just use some longer ARP's like you have Mike?
Cone or ball, 45° or 60°, stuff like that I've seen about lugnut/hub seats. Shouldn't be that hard to find a nut that works with 1/2"x20 studs, which are fairly common.

240 front hubs are easy to pull. I'm still not sure if the rear hub seperates from the axle. I hope it does...

[pbonsalb]

I have been interested in redrilling for 4.5 inch brakes and wheels, but have not taken parts in to a machine shop yet. I did have a 240 rear axle handy recently and did some measuring. There is not a lot of extra room. I think 4.5 would be OK since that is only another 1/8 inch out, but I would want to check with a machine shop first.

Not sure about 740/940 front and rear. I need to take a look and bring some parts to a shop for some estimates. My guess is that redrilling will be the same or less than proper spacer adapters and that redrilling will definitely make non Volvo (i.e. Wilwood) brakes cheaper and easier to install.

Someone take the plunge and let us know how it turns out. It may be a year (or more the way things are going) before I get to this project.

Philip Bradley

[Super1800GTR]

Looking @ my manual it doesn't look like the rear hub separates from the axle. I think they look easy enough to pull out though. I was thinking I'd have to take off the whole rearend but it says you just have to remove the bearing retaining plate & pull it out. This correct??

Thanks for the info Mike & Philip. I need to start looking for a local machine shop that can help me out. Also need to find an extra set of hubs & axles suitable to redrill. Are all axles/front hubs the same on all 240's?

Rob

[Captain Bondo]

Ya, remove the plate and use an axle puller/big slide hammer.
The flange does not seperate (well, at least in any conventional sense) from the axle.

Early cars have different hubs. they changed to the larger bearing hubs in ohhhh '82 or 83 maybe? Not sure.
1031 axles and 1030 axles also do not interchange iirc.

[Super1800GTR]

Thanks. My car is a '84.5 w/ m46 so it should have the 1031. Correct?

Rob

[towerymt]

Ya, remove the plate and use an axle puller/big slide hammer.
The flange does not seperate (well, at least in any conventional sense) from the axle.
Just put the brake rotor on backwards, screw on a couple of lugnuts (I use the basic steel nuts, put on backwards to not smash up the seat) and use that as your slide hammer. Learned that from Rob (Volvorules), works great.

Thanks. My car is a '84.5 w/ m46 so it should have the 1031. Correct?
Should have a 1031...but Ben (blkaplan) has an '84 M46 turbo with a 1030, so I won't say for sure.

I just remembered that the rear hub flanges have one large access hole so you can unbolt the hub/axle assembly from the axle housing. This may complicate things a bit, but you could always offset-drill the original holes, then weld in the studs. Either make the offset holes bigger to fit a larger knurl size, or just make them oval, probably doesn't matter which you do.

Parking brake spring assembly is a PITA. You can struggle with needle nose pliers, but locking needle nose vise grip pliers make it easier. Sometimes they go back together quickly, sometimes not. Take note of the orientation of the parking brake shoes, because I've had to spend time before figuring out which way it goes back on.

[Captain Bondo]

Parking brake springs are installed/removed by pushing a screwdriver between the coils (using that same access hole and prying it on. Takes seriously 10 seconds a side.

Loosening the big 17mm adjuster on the ebrake cables helps too.

More and more even rwd cars are fwd offset, I'd leave it and use adapters if it were me, but that's me. As far as brakes go I don't see why you couldn't have a machine shop redrill the rotors instead.

[Super1800GTR]

Looking @ my wheels today... Do you think there would be a clearence issue w/ the stock brake caliper & the really low offset rims that I want? I have yet to take the wheel off & measure. This leads me to my next question. If I were to run adaptors what would be the smallest I could use (inorder to still use a low offset rim). Using adaptors would set the wheels out far enough so the spokes wouldn't interfere w/ the caliper. I guess I could use spacers even if I swaped bolt patterns. Think of this as a blackup plan if I can't find the time to get axles, have them machined, etc.

Rob

[c70spd]

I've got some a set of 4 work 2pc for sale, 16x9.5s! +38 offset

http://supramania.com/phpBB2/files/23_1_b.jpg
http://supramania.com/phpBB2/files/90_1_b.jpg

bolt pattern is 5x120, you could have the wheels redrilled with inserts most likely, either that or get an adapter from wheeladapter.com.

[Super1800GTR]

WOW!! those are sweet! Do you have a full set of 16x9.5s or just the pair? Major fender widening would probably be in order but might be worth it :).

Rob

[c70spd]

Yeah, I have a set of 4! I bought them planning to use them on another car, but i ended up selling it, and these definitely won't fit on my c70, so i'm hoping someone else may be interested.

[c70spd]

Price is $650 + shipping from 90716 so cal.

[Lord_Athlon]

On a side note, I got a set of mustang cobra wheels, and a set of extremely long studs. I am in the process of taking my brothers wagon apart, and having them redrilled to he can roll on those wheels. I also got a set of cobra rotors laying around so i can mock up some big brakes up front possibly.

[SteveMD]

Ford Crown Vic 16 x 7 mesh center (bbs-look) come in both plain and machined lip, nice size and would look bitchin' on a brick. I have a steel version (cop car rim) I used to check offset on and vaguely remember it being close to virgo or multi-x. Too close for an adapter, I think, would need to redrill hub/flange.

As Philip mentioned, the downside is the larger bolt circle and maybe not enough metal on the hub or axle flange. However, you do have the brake disc hat surface providing some support....

[Wagner]

quote edited to express better what i meant to ask:

1031 axles and 1030 axles also do not interchange iirc.

Are you sure about that? Because i think i have thrown some 1030 half shafts in a 1031 axle. But now that you mention it, i'm not 100% where the half shafts came from. I just assumed that they were 1030 shafts.

The rear wheel bearings seem to be the same between different axles.

[Captain Bondo]

Yes absolutely sure about the hubs, but maybe not on the axles- it might have just been a 700/200 thing, but I know we never used to interchange 1030/1031 in general at the shop I worked at.

Also I have my hubs redrilled for 114.3 now, works good, you just need to use screw in studs (well, studs that screw in from the backside). I'll post pics this weekend.

[John V, outside agitator]

Yes absolutely sure about the hubs, but maybe not on the axles- it might have just been a 700/200 thing, but I know we never used to interchange 1030/1031 in general at the shop I worked at.

Also I have my hubs redrilled for 114.3 now, works good, you just need to use screw in studs (well, studs that screw in from the backside). I'll post pics this weekend.


What sorta fawked up perverted process is at work here amongst you Volvo pervs?:wtf:
You use bizzarre metric numbers when something is made to an INCH dimension---here we see metric notation for 4.5" bolt circle , elsewhere we see metric for the 4 1/4" bolt circle, while simultaneously we see STAMPED INTO THE CLUTCH COVERS "215" for flat flyhwells clutches and "228" for the stepped flywheels and for some utterly unfathomable reasons you guys ignore whats stamped on the covers and say "9 and whatever" inches?

Was ist der los?:wtf:

[Captain Bondo]

What sorta fawked up perverted process is at work here amongst you Volvo pervs?:wtf:
You use bizzarre metric numbers when something is made to an INCH dimension---here we see metric notation for 4.5" bolt circle , elsewhere we see metric for the 4 1/4" bolt circle, while simultaneously we see STAMPED INTO THE CLUTCH COVERS "215" for flat flyhwells clutches and "228" for the stepped flywheels and for some utterly unfathomable reasons you guys ignore whats stamped on the covers and say "9 and whatever" inches?

Was ist der los?:wtf:

I'm sure anyone who cares can do the conversion... keep in mind what country was stubborn and decided to keep using arbitrary measurements based on dead kings thumbs and whatnot when everyone else realized that here in modern times we use the decimal system so units that are based on multiples of 10 might actually make sense. We wouldn't have this disconnect otherwise. ;-):-P

[Mark]

Yeah please post pics- this was the bolt pattern I was considering when I build the new rearend up and I wanted to get the front hubs drilled to match. the thing i've been pondering is that then maybe I can find a hat for a wilwood brake rotor that'll fit with minor mods. :oogle:

[Captain Bondo]

It's another typical turbobricks thing- a couple of guys start saying it won't work, then it becomes truth, and then everyone is too pussy to try it. Pics soon.

[John V, outside agitator]

It's another typical turbobricks thing- a couple of guys start saying it won't work, then it becomes truth, and then everyone is too pussy to try it. Pics soon.

Daaayyym man, whatcher referring to "another thing...." what was the first thing?

[BB-Q]

Daaayyym man, whatcher referring to "another thing...." what was the first thing?

I don't think anyone can remember what the first thing was, but there have been many things since......