T5 adapter info

[wadejg]

Driveshaft for the T5 is relatively easy. The JTR book (at www.jagsthatrun.com, worth reading even for non V8 guys) recommends a 2-3/4" diameter steel driveshaft from a 1970-1974 Camaro. It starts out being between 50-52 inches depending on year, leaving lots of room to shorten it. I paid $75 shipped for one, which was kinda pricey.

The book goes through calculations to show that a 47" long 2 3/4" diameter driveshaft with 25" diameter tires will have problems at greater than 6260 RPM which is 132mph with 3.31 gears, 120mph with 3.54 gears, and 110mph with 3.73 gears. With a 47" long 2 1/2" diameter shaft the max operating speed is down to only 5380rpm with relative reduction in max vehicle speed.

Unfortunately, on a 240, a 3" diameter driveshaft is supposed to interfere with the transmission tunnel. It is extra unfortunate because most of the nice stock aluminum driveshafts are 3" diameter.

A two piece driveshaft would increase the maximum safe operating speed, but would be more difficult to implement. I guess John Lane did this though and used the center support from an F-150 truck.

With my T56 the driveshaft was cut down to 46-1/2" using the yoke that came with my stock 2000 Camaro driveshaft. You could use whatever yoke was necessary with your transmission. The yoke from a 1972 Camaro still worked with my transmission from my 2000 Camaro. Apparently 28 years means nothing to GM. The only reason I used the 2000 Camaro yoke was because it came with a balancer on it.

Also, I uprated the differential flange and u-joint from the stock Volvo differential flange, which will work, to a stronger, Dana Spicer flange and 1310 u-joint (the flange is Dana part number 2-2-329). I paid $150 for the flange/u-joint/shortening/balancing at my driveline shop. They also sandblasted and painted the shaft so it looks nice.

You will also have to adjust the pinion snubber downwards with washers. If you don't do this with the one piece driveshaft it will contact the tunnel under hard acceleration.

Make sure the shop that shortens and balances the driveshaft doesn't remove the cardboard tube inside the driveshaft as it is there to control driveline vibrations.

This was only part of the info from the book. Once again it is a very worthwhile book to get if you are modifying your Volvo, even if it isn't with a V8.

Also, for those who dream of 6 speed T56's that can handle 500lbs/ft of torque check out this months issue of Chevy High Performance magazine. They go into some of the details of new aftermarket bellhousings which are available for T56's as well as the ins and outs of T56's in general. Much of it should be T5 applicable.

It would be great if other V8 guys with real world experience...as in cars that aren't up on stands....chime in here as well. :lol:

This is posted in the T5 adapter for sale post as well.

Regards,
Justin

[bitjockey]

AWESOME post, Justin.

You helped me out alot, now I know what to tell my driveshaft shop. Gonna hunt around for a Camaro shaft.

[Hank Scorpio]

Thats great man, really good to know.

ROBIN Stick this thread!

[bitjockey]

Done :)

[Hank Scorpio]

Thata boy! ;)

[Anonymous]

why are you hunting for
that camaro shaft" when the T5 swap is intended for Ford T5's?
I would not assume that the GM flange is the same as the Ford.

[bitjockey]

Why not? It is the same tranny, more or less, with a different shifter position.

[Anonymous]

Well,
the input shaft is completely different, so I would verify that the GM flange works that's all.

[wadejg]

The Dana flange (at the differential) would be the same. The question is whether the yoke at the front of the driveshaft will work at the output shaft of the transmission. I can't say for sure. However, the yoke from a Mustang/T-bird T5 should work on a Camaro shaft if the Camaro yoke doesn't. I guess with the caveat that I'm pretty much guessing at this. Hope I'm not leading people astray.

Of course, the 5.0 Mustang swap people could say what driveshafts they used. A differential shop and or Mustang shop should be able to tell you lengths/diameters of Ford T5 driveshafts in various year Fox bodies. You would be looking for a driveshaft that starts at greater than 48" long and 2-3/4" diameter to be cut down to the length as needed. I also bet that Converse engineering would know.

By the way, all of these measurements are from the center of the u-joint on the front yoke to the center of the u-joint on the rear flange.

Regards,
Justin

[wadejg]

Here are some links:

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2000/09/t5swap/index.shtml

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/Detailed/25.shtml

http://www.merkurencyclopedia.com/Trans,Diff/T-5%20Driveshaft.html

http://www.moderndriveline.com/FAQ.htm#_Toc29404665

http://www.ultrastang.com/Ultrainfo.asp?Page_ID=3

http://www.stangnet.com/tech/t5swap.html

http://www.merkurencyclopedia.com/Trans,Diff/T-5%20Installation.html

Regards,
Justin

[pgringo69]

2 piece d-shaft info:

http://www.brickboard.com/V8/index.htm?id=601348

[Volvord]

The slip yoke from a 80-82 V/8 Thunderbird (auto) will spline right into the Ford T5 and is the same dimension and will work with the stock Volvo U-Joints. All that has to be done is the drive shaft shortened.

is this for a 240?
im pretty sure it is impossible to run a one piece driveshaft in a 700/900 series car. the rear crossmember is in the way and it would be hanging very low. check out the V8 brickboard forum for alot about driveshafts. i did all this when i put the V8/T5 in my 740. all you have to do is get the correct T5 slip yoke and weld that to the end of the 740 driveshaft, have it balanced and bolt it in. erik

[Red_Liner740TIC]

Whats the price on shortening and balancing a driveshaft?

what about changing the yoke?
i'm trying to figure out what the cost of this whole T5 swap would be

[Red_Liner740TIC]

Whats the price on shortening and balancing a driveshaft?

what about changing the yoke?
i'm trying to figure out what the cost of this whole T5 swap would be

[GTJordan]

Why don't you phone a local shop and find out? Prices vary all over the place... 50 bucks here might be 100 there

Jordan

[bitjockey]

Driveline shop in my town quoted me $75 for everything including balancing.

[Red_Liner740TIC]

75 bucks!? thats it........thats not bad.......

so 150CAN for me, plus 400 for the tranny, plus 350 for the adapter plus the 3" adapter for the shifter and the 4 cyl clutch......

sooo i'm looking at over a grand CAN........damn....

[Hank Scorpio]

How many broken M46's equal the time and labor of a 1000 bucks to you?

Hell, kenny's dead motor for me would have been worth the 1k.

Doug

[Red_Liner740TIC]

True that.......i mean, its either keep breaking M46's or spend the 1 grand and do the job right......

and since i'm building a 90+ engine with ported top end, sourcing out a .60 trim turbo, looking into adding more fuel, i KNOW i need a stronger tranny.....

[bitjockey]

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/gilesij/Volvord/t_mount.gif

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/gilesij/Volvord/shifter.jpg

Found these on this site:

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/gilesij/Volvord/index.htm

That solves the mount and shifter problem.

[ptouch20]

hotness.

[Hank Scorpio]

Sweetness, talked to JP today. Mine ships COD tomorrow! :D

[bitjockey]

Well hell... whens mine shipping? :)

And how much was the total? I assume thats both the bellhousing and the adapter?

Do you already have your tranny?

I have a feeling you're gonna beat me to the install. Bitch. :x:

[Hank Scorpio]

Sounds like he's got a few done. Not sure, he's still getting me the final pricing.

I don't have the transmission yet. I'm pulling the motor and drivetrain memorial weekend (happy bday) and doing lots of cosmetic stuff over the next 2 months (long list to get the car done, but it will be done damn it for the VCOA show in WA, in august). So While I may have the adapter first, you may beat me to it ;)

Doug

[bitjockey]

Holy crap, check this out:

http://www.therangerstation.com/T5ID.htm

Great for finding a T5 in the 'yards...

[ocotillo]

Doug, what day in Aug. is the VCOA show in Washington?

[GTJordan]

15-17th

Jordan

[bitjockey]

Look what was waiting for me when I got home tonight :-D

http://www.pbase.com/image/18232866.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/18233004.jpg

One step closer...

[Hank Scorpio]

Awsome bud!!!! So close!

[boosted12a]

oh, thats pretty! i need to get a dam bell housing! and a tranny!

[nohbudi]

ok... so umm... what all is needed, and where do i aquire all whats needed?

[240T man]

Well...I might not be able to pass this one up.

The auto tranny is costing me gaswise, though I like it for hard launchability...but at the moment, gas milage is more important to me.

Noah, I hear you need a T-5 tranny, M46 bellhousing, mustang or camaro driveshaft, shortened?

[DavoS40]

:boink:
93 Cobra T5 Tranny
http://www.pbase.com/image/19094086/large.jpg

[Hank Scorpio]

Awsome bud! Im hoping my flywheel and clutch will be here hopefully friday.

(you know, unless you pay for pbase, you can't direct link)
heres your picture gallery:
http://www.pbase.com/davos40/t5_swap

Oh.. atleast I have a shifter (pro 5.0) heheheeh... my T5 should be here anytime soon (better be soon damnit)

[CNGBrick]

Sweet setup! How was Clutch Net to deal with? ($$$ too if you don't mind of course :wink: )

RT

[DavoS40]

I bought the clutch through JP at Vintage Performance. The clutch and pressure plate were $370.

[Hank Scorpio]

Just picked mine up, out of a 91 5.0 car, about 40k miles on it!! Found it through a friend of a friend!

:D :D :D :D :D :D

[Hank Scorpio]

Got it!!! The bellhousing bolts up perfect, awsome work by John Parker!

Still waiting on the knob, but here it is with the Pro5.0 shifter, man the throws are AWSOME!!

http://www.pbase.com/image/19263770.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/19263771.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/19263772.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/19263773.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/19263774.jpg

[Hank Scorpio]

Theres no clutch yet, but I figured that would make it easier to get in and out if I needed to a few times.

Here ya go!
http://www.pbase.com/image/19268142.jpg
I have to trim the shifter opening a bit to make the bezel for the shifter fit, but other than that everything fits good so far.
http://upload.pbase.com/image/19268144.jpg
http://upload.pbase.com/image/19268145.jpg

The best news is the pilot bearing. The 5.0 mustang pilot bearing is a DIRECT replacement!!!

[ocotillo]

Are you going to take us all for a ride when you're done? :wink:

[WhiteRocket]

Some of us found this thread in the middle, and can't find the beginning :e-shrug: I've been wanting to swap a Mustang T-5 for my M46-OD for two years now; I'm tired of the indecisive overdrive, the difficult shift gates and the button knob that pulls of in my hand! All I need is the trans adapter. But I have a couple of other question...The T-5s in the V-6 and 4 banger Mustangs have gear ratios closer to the V-factory M46, but their input shaft is a slightly different diameter (according to the rangerstation chart), Do these trannies work just as well with the adapter and Volvo pressure plate (assuming clutch disk and throw-out bearing match the trans)? Also, the thread hasn't covered the trans mount at the crossmember (unless I missed it). How does that end work. I saw the posts about adapting the yoke, u-joints, and shafts.

Oh, and I've been watching this board on and off for a year or so now, I finally signed up tonight!

[Hank Scorpio]

Whiterocket, basicly the adapter is set up for using the V8 T5's because they are stronger. A 4clyinder will work I gather with some grinding of the pilot bearing.

The only advantage we had concieved was its Pilot tip is the same OD as the m46, but the v8 T5 pilot bearing is a direct replacement from stock.

As for the Driveshaft, theres always a bunch of driveline shops around, that should be easily handled.

You can use a volvo pressure plate with a ford disc, Im not going that route so I can't supply more info. John Parker (the person who does the adapters) can set you up with a clutch.

The only hurdle left is the T/O bearing. Im not sure there yet.

Doug

[WhiteRocket]

What is John Parker's contact info?

[Hank Scorpio]

www.v-performance.com

[Hank Scorpio]

So basicly figured out the throwout bearing today guys. Easy as heck.

Basicly the stock clutch fork has two tabs for the OE T/O bearing to ride on. All you have to do is take about 1-1.5mm off each side to fit a ford one in there. Then, the ford one is actually taller so I just drilled and installed two sheet metal screws right bellow the tabs to just kind of "take up the slop". Probably not the best solution but seems to me it should work fine.

So either way, heres some pictures everyone!
http://www.pbase.com/image/20119090.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/20119094.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/20119099.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/20119120.jpg

I got the clutch from John Parker. My new Aluminum flywheel should be here tomorrow. Hopefully with luck I'll have a running car tomorrow to showcase the T5 in.

[DavoS40]

I ended up doing a similiar setup for the t/o bearing like yours Doug. I just took the original slots off the stock t/o bearing that held the t/o bearing in place and slide them onto the ford bearing. They clip onto the bottom rim of the ford bearing and hold pretty tight. Then I JB welded them just to make sure they won't come off. Then I just ground down the original studs on the volvo fork until the bearing slid in.
http://www.pbase.com/image/20112406/large.jpg

[Hank Scorpio]

Whoa... yours has a dust cover... I'll be damned lol :e-shrug:

Mines in, just taking a break. Clutch, 9lb aluminum flywheel (yes I weighed it!) and T5. Just getting the last couple bolts back in place, then the DS, fuel lines... ect ect and have it run tonight!

Doug

[Hank Scorpio]

Well she's all in and a working (I think.. cars not completely running yet).

::edit only leaving the important info:

Basicly the only snag I hit was clutch travel. Now, that is probably an issue using the ford T/O bearing, which is about 3/16" shorter than the volvo one.

Doug

[Boris740]

Well she's all in and a working (I think.. cars not completely running yet).

Basicly the only snag I hit was clutch travel. I couldn't get the fork to come far enough forward to disengage the clutch, but the handy work of a cut-off wheel to the bellhousing gave it all the room it needed.

Now, that is probably an issue using the ford T/O bearing, which is about 3/16" shorter than the volvo one. Either way, it seems to be working.

I'll take a picture of the modification tomorrow.

Doug

Any toughts how would this work with 740? I have a need..

[Hank Scorpio]

Hey bud,

I posted an update but I will add all the vital info to this thread when I get some diagrams made up.

As far as the T/O bearing, it should be the same deal for the 740.

[Hank Scorpio]

Heres what I did for the T/O bearing. Its Chicago Rawhide number 6030 you shouldn't have any issue finding it (though it will have to be ordered most likely).

http://www.pbase.com/image/20488159

Basicly it comes with a goofy square flange on it stock, which I rounded off, then welded a "washer" to the bottom of it and thats what rides the fork. So far so good!

Doug

[Boris740]

http://www.hanlonmotorsports.com/

[boostdemon]

Ok, my synchros are gone on 1st, and 2nd gear, and my 3rd gear grinds under highrpm shifts, so im starting to look at tranny options.
I hate to bring this up, but its always been my impression from all my mustang friends, that the T5 is pure crap. 60k miles is about how long they last before requiring a rebuild, and thats on a stock 5.0

Are those of you who are doing this that are going to be hitting the 300hp+ club (doug, robin, etc..) are you guys stuffing some aftermarket gears in these things first? I know its kinda late in the game, but what details have you thought out as far as dependability

[Hank Scorpio]

Well, Im not worried so far. They have a 300+ ft/lb torque rating, which while I may be making more than (I for sure hope so) it wont be slow low and brutal like a 5.0 mustang.

Will it live to 350whp? Probably, but probably not behind DR's.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see. Nice thing is, there isn't a tranny shop on earth that hasn't seen a T5, and theres tooons of aftermarket. I'll just have to cross that bridge when I get to it.

Doug

[boostdemon]

Yes, the aftermarket is plenty and cheap too which gives it an advantage once the conversion is already done. But dollar for dollar you could have an M90 and some money to spare... right?

in otherwords, have you guys added up the cost less the tranny what it took to put one on a redblock?

[Hank Scorpio]

No I dont think so Dana. The M90 would probably cost more or less with shipping for what I did the entire swap (IF you don't count the flywheel which I didn't have to have).

Plus, how many tranny shops have seen the internals of an m90 out here ;)

Heres the way I see it:

If your patient, and keep sharp eyes out for good deals it can be done cheap. If you want to do it quick, your not going to find the best deals.

To each his own though, Im not shooting down any of the options just rather some of the reasons I went the way I did.

Course, if a bunch of people could buy the adapters at the same time, JP has made it clear that the price would drop.

[coondog240]

what about the tranny mount? do you have to modify it at all or does it work the same as the volvo's?

[Boris740]

Hello,

The onset of cooler air has forced a demise of my second M46. I will be shopping for T5 tomorrow and have some questions. There are many choices as per table on http://www.therangerstation.com/T5ID.htm

I would like to know what is the best match with regards to the input shaft length and input shaft pilot bearing diameter. The car is 91 740T wagon with B230FT engine.

[Hank Scorpio]

Any of the 5.0L mustang T5's would work.

[945ti]

Hello,

The onset of cooler air has forced a demise of my second M46. I will be shopping for T5 tomorrow and have some questions. There are many choices as per table on http://www.therangerstation.com/T5ID.htm

I would like to know what is the best match with regards to the input shaft length and input shaft pilot bearing diameter. The car is 91 740T wagon with B230FT engine.
Probably the one with the shortest first gear from a 5.0 with a decent torque rating. While the M46 first is really short, your 4 cylinder hauling a heavy car might be mroe fun while lugging around with a shorter first. I think the shortest is around 3.66 if I remember right. The 4 cylinder T5 is probably not much stronger than a rebuilt M46. All of the OD ratios in the V8s will be pretty tall.

[Hank Scorpio]

Jim, I beg to differ. Well sorta. Mine has the 3.35 first and its perfect if you ask me. I already have a hard time staying off the limiter (at 7k) in first gear. Thats what I hated most about the T5 was how useless 1st was in higher HP apps.

[Anonymous]

Is there any modell of the T5 tranny that can handle about 550 lb in torque?

Me and my friends here in sweden has some problems to find a tranny that holds for that torque.. The getrags will simply dont hold. And not the m90s either.

Bad english ,but i hope that you understand ! :oops:

Best regards
/Ante

[142Turbo]

Is there any modell of the T5 tranny that can handle about 550 lb in torque?

Me and my friends here in sweden has some problems to find a tranny that holds for that torque.. The getrags will simply dont hold. And not the m90s either.

Bad english ,but i hope that you understand ! :oops:

Best regards
/Ante

Oops not logged in! :freak:

/Ante

[bswizzle]

powerglide, 4k stall, gear vendor overdrive, custom carbon fiber driveshaft, ford 9inch rear... at least i know doug is gettting moist over that tranny/rear combo and its proven to hold much more than 500ft lb

[qwkswede]

The T5 will not hold 500 ft-lbs. torque. The powerglide mentioned above would hold the power. But it sounds like you are looking for a manual transmission. There aren't really any cheap junkyard solutions over here in the US for that kind of torque. You can easily get a ZF 6 speed to hold that kind of power. This is the ZF transmissions that are found in 4th generation Corvettes. I am not sure about making an adapter plate, but conceivably you could just do an adapter plate like the T5 or Getrag conversions use. But they would hold the power and give you 6 gears.

And John Lane would probably recommend a Jerico. It would be the last trans you buy and you can custom tailor the gear ratios to your liking..

[Hank Scorpio]

Siro and a few other people I know are all running T56s (from vipers and such).