Building some new engine mounts?

[cherrycoke]

I seem to be going through engine mounts at an alarming rate, and thinking about making something that could hold up in the long run. Is there any possibility for making some sort of platform to bolt onto the crossmember that could extending mounting points towards the bottem of the strut towers? I think I saw a style where a guy welded braces to the sides of the strut towers and had some wacky form of braces, but I would like to not weld into that area if I didn't have to.

[peehound]

I seem to be going through engine mounts at an alarming rate, and thinking about making something that could hold up in the long run. Is there any possibility for making some sort of platform to bolt onto the crossmember that could extending mounting points towards the bottem of the strut towers? I think I saw a style where a guy welded braces to the sides of the strut towers and had some wacky form of braces, but I would like to not weld into that area if I didn't have to.

Is that for your new John Deere, or some weasly Volvo or other?

[cherrycoke]

Is that for your new John Deere, or some weasly Volvo or other?

Well it probably should be my new (ish) 240. Not many other volvo's tend to rip through mounts this fast.

[JiggyRig]

This might be the "welding-to-strut-tower" thing that you were talking about that you didn't want to do... But... Here's one great example of moving the engine mounts to a more versatile and (most likely) stronger setup. Thought that you might find it interesting and helpful for your project.

Tyson

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wODk1MTk1NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wODk1MTk2NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

[cherrycoke]

Yea, those are what I was talking about. I wonder if there is some way I could make a bracket that used the 2 crossmember bolts right there as a support, and didn't need to be welded in place.

[Kevin Hawkinson]

Yeah, that might work, if you make it so that it bolts on, and then kinda wraps down around the frame rail. Otherwise, the two bolts form an axis for something to bend around. I don't really know how to describe it without using a bunch of technical words that I learned in "mechanics of materials" class.

[MikeHardy]

if you could do it in a ] [ brackets for ether side which could then use the bolts as they go thorugh both sides, the crossmemeber would need to sit below the lower bracket sections

[pbonsalb]

There are probably some simpler mods that would work fine. My knowledge of 240T is not great, but I believe there are heavy and light duty mounts. You want to use the heavy duty mounts. It may be that they are diesel mounts or it may be that one side mount is heavier duty than the other.

You can add a cut down third mount underneath. I believe there is an old article on this at the TB website somewhere.

You should add a flex pipe in the exhaust after the turbo and before the point where the downpipe meets the rest of the exhaust under the car.

You can also add a stabilizer bar up top or a limiting chain on one side. I think you will find a thread on this if you search around a bit.

I don't think you need to pull your engine and weld in new mounts. If your engine was out anyway and you were building a hotrod, new mounts could be a good project.

Philip Bradley

[kyote]

I am making a set of solid mounts, stock size, only out of aluminum. I think this will be a good solution to the mount problem. Are solid mounts what you want?

[cherrycoke]

I am making a set of solid mounts, stock size, only out of aluminum. I think this will be a good solution to the mount problem. Are solid mounts what you want?


Yikes! My brother was running hockey pukes for a while, and it shoot so bad that a number of bolts in the engine bay wiggled loose in a matter of minutes. Solid metal could only be far worse. You are a more courageous man than I for wanting to try those :lol:

Kevin was running a diesel engine mount on the passenger side, but even that is starting to wear quite quickly. All that really needs to be done is moving the passenger mount closer to the strut tower to lengthen the torque arm, and amount of force exterted onto the mount itself. It is just a problem of where you can find a place to put this mount, as you end up right on the side of the strut tower where the crossmember attaches, and you need to make something custom. Looking at the passenger side brackets that the 940's use, it would be perfect, but it sticks it right at the cross member bolts. Maybe cutting the bracket, and putting the mounting holes a bit higher would help, so it can clear the crossmember attachment point, then allow room for a rubber isolator between the strut tower and the bracket? Too much thinking for right now, I think I need to make a picture to better get my point across :oops:

[own6volvos]

There are probably some simpler mods that would work fine. My knowledge of 240T is not great, but I believe there are heavy and light duty mounts. You want to use the heavy duty mounts. It may be that they are diesel mounts or it may be that one side mount is heavier duty than the other.

You can add a cut down third mount underneath. I believe there is an old article on this at the TB website somewhere.

You should add a flex pipe in the exhaust after the turbo and before the point where the downpipe meets the rest of the exhaust under the car.

You can also add a stabilizer bar up top or a limiting chain on one side. I think you will find a thread on this if you search around a bit.

I don't think you need to pull your engine and weld in new mounts. If your engine was out anyway and you were building a hotrod, new mounts could be a good project.

Philip Bradley

The engine will be out of his car for doing this, with a new engine going in, so that isn't a problem. I will probably be using the same setup in my car as well if we get a good design down. I am hoping for some setup that could use the stock mount, and make things easier and cheaper to work with down the road. Flex pipe is going to be a given on mine with the turbo, as my manifold might have some issues with cracking at certain weld points, which would suck greatly :lol:

[NoSi1212ah]

This might be the "welding-to-strut-tower" thing that you were talking about that you didn't want to do... But... Here's one great example of moving the engine mounts to a more versatile and (most likely) stronger setup. Thought that you might find it interesting and helpful for your project.

Tyson

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wODk1MTk1NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wODk1MTk2NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg
those look sick.. much nicer then stock

[own6volvos]

those look sick.. much nicer then stock

I would be all over those if I had someone to do the aluminum welds, or a tig welder.

[1 riktig svensk]

What about something like this? Add a support brace?

http://www.hocky.se/imagearchive/hocky/cars/amazon-67/construction/images/Picture%20088.jpg

[own6volvos]

What about something like this? Add a support brace?

picture of engine that goes VROOOOOOM

While that would work quite well, it still would improve things to move the rubber mounts farther from the engine. Right now they are like a 10mm bolt being cranked on by some wacko using a 1/2" wrench with a 3/8" adapter and 10mm socket, being torqued on with a 5 foot breaker bar.

[MetalgodZ]

While that would work quite well, it still would improve things to move the rubber mounts farther from the engine. Right now they are like a 10mm bolt being cranked on by some wacko using a 1/2" wrench with a 3/8" adapter and 10mm socket, being torqued on with a 5 foot breaker bar.


What he said...But short of that, if you're good enough to fabricate those crazy mounts from above but you want to still allow the engine to shear in a crash, maybe try making something like this:

<img src="http://www.wpi.edu/~mjbaxter/ServedImages/polymotormounts.jpg" border="0" alt="" />

Just a little quick sketch and PhotoChop. I dunno if it's been done before, but they would probably work better than the diesel ones, and they wouldn't be as disintegrate-y when you pour oil on them when changing a filter.

[own6volvos]

What he said...But short of that, if you're good enough to fabricate those crazy mounts from above but you want to still allow the engine to shear in a crash, maybe try making something like this:

<img src="http://www.wpi.edu/~mjbaxter/ServedImages/polymotormounts.jpg" border="0" alt="" />

Just a little quick sketch and PhotoChop. I dunno if it's been done before, but they would probably work better than the diesel ones, and they wouldn't be as disintegrate-y when you pour oil on them when changing a filter.

Well, 740's use the basic soft rubber mounts, but with being much farther out from the engine, they see less force exerted on them. Moving them out would allow you to just use the same ole stock rubber, and still be just as safe.

[volvorsport]

ive made a jig to do some engine mounts , when my polybushes arrive , ill post some updated pics .

if you wanted to make some simple ones , just use the orignal mount plates and weld some some tube through it that can fit a polybush (25mm ideal) then a bracket on the other half to hold it up - one side will be marginal clearance with a 25mm bush the other side will be about 5mm clearance . i was gonna do that - but i went with the complete fabricated engine mount .

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mj.slater2/enJIG.JPG

[Unregistered]

There's only one way to go: full chromoly tube frame with engine and tranny plates.
Better book with your dentist now, you'll be picking your fillings off the floor in no time!

[own6volvos]

There's only one way to go: full chromoly tube frame with engine and tranny plates.
Better book with your dentist now, you'll be picking your fillings off the floor in no time!

Some of us still have our teeth :lol:

[Captain Bondo]

The third mount seems like the best plan to me. I don't see how the fabrication is all that difficult. the engine will still shear correctly. Using motor mounts of a totally different composition and then saying that it won't effect how they shear is presumtuous at best. You only meed to motor to slide under the firewall and not INTO or THROUGH the firewall, which it will still do with stock mounts and a 3rd link since the link only has any real strength inder tension/compression.
If you don't have the skill or money to cut down a torque rod to appropriate length, and make two brackets for it, I doubt you have the skill/money to build a car that needs such a device. It ain't hard.

[own6volvos]

The third mount seems like the best plan to me. I don't see how the fabrication is all that difficult. the engine will still shear correctly. Using motor mounts of a totally different composition and then saying that it won't effect how they shear is presumtuous at best. You only meed to motor to slide under the firewall and not INTO or THROUGH the firewall, which it will still do with stock mounts and a 3rd link since the link only has any real strength inder tension/compression.
If you don't have the skill or money to cut down a torque rod to appropriate length, and make two brackets for it, I doubt you have the skill/money to build a car that needs such a device. It ain't hard.

Well, we weren't planning on using a custom mount/bushing. It is just a matter of lengthening a bracket so it has less leverage against the bushing. The plan was to use the same stock 240 rubber passnger side engine mount, but just in a different location from moving the bracket.

[cherrycoke]

The third mount seems like the best plan to me. I don't see how the fabrication is all that difficult. the engine will still shear correctly. Using motor mounts of a totally different composition and then saying that it won't effect how they shear is presumtuous at best. You only meed to motor to slide under the firewall and not INTO or THROUGH the firewall, which it will still do with stock mounts and a 3rd link since the link only has any real strength inder tension/compression.
If you don't have the skill or money to cut down a torque rod to appropriate length, and make two brackets for it, I doubt you have the skill/money to build a car that needs such a device. It ain't hard.

Were you talking about the above poly stuff the guy was making a jig for, or our idea for moving the bracket support out from the engine? Kevin can do just fine welding up new brackets, as long as they aren't aluminum ;-)

[grebnut]

There's only one way to go: full chromoly tube frame with engine and tranny plates.
Better book with your dentist now, you'll be picking your fillings off the floor in no time!

is it really that bad? ive only started a drag car that has solid motor mounts. im just wondering. ive been thinking about this as a cheap option, but wonder how bad will it really be?

anyone who has actually ridden in or drove a car with solid motor mounts care to comment?

ben

[own6volvos]

is it really that bad? ive only started a drag car that has solid motor mounts. im just wondering. ive been thinking about this as a cheap option, but wonder how bad will it really be?

anyone who has actually ridden in or drove a car with solid motor mounts care to comment?

ben

I was running hockey pucks for just the passenger side, which are about as hard as plastic hunks. Basically no deflection what so ever. After driving for about 2 miles I couldn't stand it anymore. In that small time frame lots of little bolts around the hood and engine had wiggled loose from the vibrations. It was insane.

[Kevin Hawkinson]

I really don't get that much vibration through my mounts. Of course, it does help that I have actual rubber bushings in there.

[Captain Bondo]

Kevin's are great. Either go that far, or add a third brace from the strut tower to the head and leave the rest alone.

[own6volvos]

I really don't get that much vibration through my mounts. Of course, it does help that I have actual rubber bushings in there.

Well yours are also a death trap for head on collisions :-P I bet if someone hit you hard enough it would pull both strut towers in as the engine smashed back :omg:

[Kevin Hawkinson]

Yeah, and I don't have any padding on the rollcage.
The job is not finished. Strut towers should be tied into the cage.

On the other hand, when I worked at the local Volvo boneyard, I saw several vehicles that suffered significant damage, including head-ons with trees, light poles, etc. In ALL cases, the engine was still firmly mounted in the car.

[John V, outside agitator]

Yeah, and I don't have any padding on the rollcage.
The job is not finished. Strut towers should be tied into the cage.

On the other hand, when I worked at the local Volvo boneyard, I saw several vehicles that suffered significant damage, including head-ons with trees, light poles, etc. In ALL cases, the engine was still firmly mounted in the car.
Yeah and I've seen plenty of Ford rally cars with the design that Kevin's mounts were copied from (and I gave him the proper bushing which is actuall a leaf spring eye bush) that have smacked into things real hard straight at "T" and nobody was killed by engines smooshing them.
Death-trap schmeth-trap.
Hoooooey!
:roll:

[own6volvos]

Yeah and I've seen plenty of Ford rally cars with the design that Kevin's mounts were copied from (and I gave him the proper bushing which is actuall a leaf spring eye bush) that have smacked into things real hard straight at "T" and nobody was killed by engines smooshing them.
Death-trap schmeth-trap.
Hoooooey!
:roll:

Just saying ;-)

[DaButcher]

Hi,

I think the easiest sollution is to use diesel-mounts and then have a brace going from the strut tower to the engine, so the engine will not flex and damage the engine-mounts.

The best idea, would be polyurethane-bushings, but then someone would have to specially construct them. I also heard one guy saying that scania-hut rubber bushings will fit the 240 enginemounts perfectly, as well as they are stiff as h*ll

I'll use diesel cushions on the original lower 240 mounts for the fitting of b6304 in the 242.
The guy doing the conversion made custom upper mounts.

I need a brace, so it wont snap the cushions, as the 267nm and 204 n/a power will easily damage the original design, I think.

[Jono780]

I am looking to create some sort of engine stabilizer mount going from the head to the strut tower. Just wondering if I would need to have some sort of method to absorb the engine vibrations/shake in this brace, or whether it can just be a solid brace to the strut tower. Should it have a bushing in it possibly at a pivot point or somewhere to absorb some of the 'shock'?

[mikep]

Should it have a bushing in it possibly at a pivot point or somewhere to absorb some of the 'shock'?
Towery runs a motor mount rubber on the tower, and a spherical rod end on the engine. He uses a bolt-on aluminum air pump bracket and a welded on bracket under the antifreeze tank. The angle at the head is about 110 degrees. With sway bar bushings on the fender it shook.

Greg is going to use 2 spherical rod ends. I welded his bracket(much lighter material, BTW) lower on the tower, for a 90 degree angle. I made the head bracket from 1/4" and 1/8" steel. No idea how much vibration he will get.


Now for the original post:
Is there any possibility for making some sort of platform to bolt onto the crossmember that could extending mounting points towards the bottem of the strut towers?
Let me repost this pic.
<img src=http://www.pbase.com/mperry/image/51827964.jpg>
There is a thread on it somewhere. It is from a 760 turbo. The mount is a Toyota truck. 86-ish.

Feel free to browse the others starting on
http://www.pbase.com/mperry/cars_and_parts&page=6

[ghettobrick]

Here's a little somethin' that I brewed up for my ice racer. Im not sure if it will work for you, but so far it's been very good for me. It's basically training hockey pucks, which are much softer than normal pucks, but stiffer than stock rubber mounts. You remove the remainder of the thrashed stock mount from the metal portion, bolt the training puck through and thats it. It took a little of my time, some effort, and about $12 to complete. The end result is a mount that you do not have to worry about shearing off. Yes, it does transmit a little more vibration through the car, but I'd say it's bearable. I drove the car 2+ hours to the track with no radio, interior, sound deadning, or undercoating and my ears and body were fine. My daily driver with a busted rear muffler is more annoying to drive. I'm sure they don't have the shearabiliy of the stock mounts it the case of an accident, but if I get hit hard enough that the engine is going to be moved back, I think the bolts will break.

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/3303/passengerside4qa.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img324.imageshack.us/img324/1927/driversside2rw.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Jono780]

hmmm smart move with the training pucks.
Yeah, I may visit the salvage yard and look around at some of the mounts there. Maybe get some ideas. It should be a fairly cheap project which is good.

[Steve C]

This is the third engine I've chained down and I don't have to replace mounts anymore. I slip a tight piece of bicycle innertube over the chain to keep it quiet. I do feel the drivetrain more when on the gas but I don't care.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a282/SCap/Volvo/Enginechained.jpg

[DaButcher]

This is the third engine I've chained down and I don't have to replace mounts anymore. I slip a tight piece of bicycle innertube over the chain to keep it quiet. I do feel the drivetrain more when on the gas but I don't care.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a282/SCap/Volvo/Enginechained.jpg

looks ghetto.. lol..
ps. you forgot to chain down the negative ground wire.

[kahlua240]

You should probably address the problem thats messing your mounts up before beefing them up. Because that will just make things worse.

[burgandybrick]

what if i made a mount that had 2 aluminum pucks on the outsides of the mounts, that sandwitched a rubber section in the middle? Like run a stud straight through say a 3/4" chunk of aluminum the a 3/4" chunk of Rubber, Then aluminum again. It would be used in the stock location to replace the crappy hydraulic mounts in my 760 turbo

[crandandall]

Dammit, I can't count how many times this subject has been beaten before. Every time, I tell the person who started the thread, USE BMW POLY MOUNTS. They work great, last a long time, and only require some minor drilling to install. They cost $30 a piece from www.bmw2002.com and they work awesome. They are basically direct replacements for the right side and for the left side, all you have to do is drill the locating holes on the brackets all the way through for the stud to go into. It is easy, cheap, and you get a motor that stays in place but is still drivable.

[bag3lbit3s]

I'm definately going to go poly mounts soon...after I get my engine running again I'm going to buy some bmw mounts. Over the last 500 miles I've noticed my oil filter starting to get lower and lower.

[Tabor]

What about using a nylon strap to tie the engine to the drivers side strut tower? I thought that was pretty popular.

[k4dje]

Dammit, I can't count how many times this subject has been beaten before. Every time, I tell the person who started the thread, USE BMW POLY MOUNTS. They work great, last a long time, and only require some minor drilling to install. They cost $30 a piece from www.bmw2002.com and they work awesome. They are basically direct replacements for the right side and for the left side, all you have to do is drill the locating holes on the brackets all the way through for the stud to go into. It is easy, cheap, and you get a motor that stays in place but is still drivable.
Which mount? They list several

[mikep]

Dammit, I can't count how many times this subject has been beaten before.
That, and this thread is over one year old.

[crandandall]

Use the e30 325 mounts, not the M3 or 318 mounts.

[DaButcher]

my dieselmounts are still MINT.. (b6304fs)..
however, I also have a custom third mount (thanx to v240tic)

[dl242gt]

Genuine Volvo diesel mounts aren't cheap. However, they don't break, are quiet, and last a long time. If anything I would add the upper brace like Towery's but I haven't needed to with Volvo diesel mounts. They work great!