Megasquirt info (all you need to know!)

[Hank Scorpio]

Nick that sounds like my lucas injectors. Take a BFH and beat the rail down some.

Kenny, when did I tell you any different? I knew about the WOT starts... **** I have to do that half the time!

lol

Oh, got the FAQ/Article from Kenny, haven't had time to review/rewrite it yet ;)

Doug

[linuxman51]

re-write it? it trails off after "you need to build the board to the specs listed in the manual......" 8-)

I just included like 4 pages of background info on alternative means of boost enrichment. this could possibly turn into "The Ultimate 10 second volvo guide" or something equally ludacris

[linuxman51]

retaining clip? whats that? you seem to think i'm running such fancy hi falootin' things on my car. why, back in my day..... :-D

seriously, bend the rail down some to increase the pressure on the injectors. the clips only hold em in when the rails off the car.

[murray]

G'day all, :wave:

Just a quick and hopefully simple question:
To get me started I am going to use the standard EZK ignition with my MS install. What sensors will MS and EZK share? Also let's say the two share the coolant sensor: do I just simply run two wires from the sensor, 1 to MS and the other to EZK?? Does this affect the readings (Voltage,Resistance) :???:
Thanks in advance for your help!!

Regards,
Murray

[linuxman51]

asside from getting the fuel maps dialed in, there is _no_ reason to retain the ezk anymore (unless your car is equiped with a crank trigger, and even then I believe the new version of MSS takes care of that as well) :)

[the poi]

and even then I believe the new version of MSS takes care of that as well) :) OOOO. That's pretty damn nifty... by the way, whats the pinout on the LH2.2 distro hall sensor, and is it a high low or low to high output... (schematic one or two)?

[linuxman51]

power signal ground, where blue is the signal (iirc). it goes from low to high I believe, I ended up using a pullup resistor on that, so perhaps high to low?

Doug, I got your email, i'm gonna clean some things up a bit, it kinda drags at a couple points, etc. I was planning on a seperate Spark faq, but it would probably be easier to drop that in towards the end. I'll have more to add after i get done with school bs tonight.

[Hank Scorpio]

Sweet :-D No worries, sometimes I get a little drab in my writing

[murray]

The reason I wanted to retain EZK just for the start (I am planning on using mss) is so I can concentrate on getting the fuel maps close to perfect and then install mss later on and get the timming perfect. I just thought it would make life a little easier-only having to concentrate on the one thing!!

[linuxman51]

The reason I wanted to retain EZK just for the start (I am planning on using mss) is so I can concentrate on getting the fuel maps close to perfect and then install mss later on and get the timming perfect. I just thought it would make life a little easier-only having to concentrate on the one thing!!

indeed it does, but you have to re-tune the fuel maps after working on the ignition stuff so its kinda a catch 22. I can give you what i've got so far to get you started.. its good off boost and decent on

[murray]

linuxman, that would be terriffic. :urgod: One of my biggest fears is accidentally blowing my motor up. If you can give me a set of number which are known to work, it at least gives me a starting point from which I can tune to my specific circumstances and needs!!
Thanx mate, I appreciate it!!

Regards,
Murray

[linuxman51]

adjusted some things tonight. my esteemed colleague sam added ignition timing, and with manifold air temps of about 80 under boost i adjusted the fuel maps to compensate for the extra timing and the car settled down a bit and seems to be making decent power. I say seems, because I dont really know what the hell its doing, as soon as anything that resembles torque comes down the line, the transmission throws its arms up in the air and leaves for france..

[wiggin]

ok guys.. im getting all of my parts together to get this swap finished and the idea of an aftermarket fuel pump came up.. ive got a 1979 262c and as far as i know its the stock fuel pump thats in it now (i replaced the in tank one last year)... im running 53 lb injectors... so do i need to get a beefy fuel pump? and if so what part #'s should i look for.. thanks!

[dirtbike]

Your stock fuel pump should be fine for the time being and when the time comes and you want to run 20+psi of boost you can always sell the stock pumps and install a walbro.
I think that the stock pump will support 300+hp.
Laters
Nick

[bswizzle]

greetings from paradise nate!
your Kjet pumps should be fine powering the 53lb'ers, but if you looking for the peace of mind or just pimp appeal of the big ass pump i did a lil search for ya http://forums.turbobricks.com/viewtopic.php?t=9252

cheers
ben

[Angus242]

K-Jet pumps from PRV6's, Merc V8's etc. are sought after by people converting to aftermarket EFI. I'll be using a B28 pump for my system.

The B28 pump puts out 73psi, which is more than enough for the injectors, which have a regulated supply of 43.5psi (3 bar) at the fuel rail at all times. I'm not sure on the flow specs of the B28 pump, but I looked them up once and they should also be more than enough for EFI injectors.

This is of course assuming you still have a V6 K-Jet pump in your 262c, if you have an EFI pump it will probably pump less fuel, but should still be more than enough.

[dirtbike]

It's the flow that's the important part just about any pump will get you the 3 bar but whether it can sustain it when you start loading the engine is another matter. But as I said before the stock set up you've got should be fine until you start really leaning on your engine.
Laters
Nick

[wiggin]

sweet, thanks guys. i was talking to one of my toyota friends and he said it was something i should at least check out... good to know im save

[the poi]

Maintaning EZK ingnition? I have this feeling Ive asked this before, but I can't seem to find it anywhere.... what inputs will EZK be taking in exactly? I plan on shorting the TPS sensor to always off-idle, but im not quite sure what else to go on. Im also a little apprehensive about doubling up on sensors...does EZK use the ECT sensor at all? Ill screw around with it (maybe this weekend) if no one's got any solid info...

[linuxman51]

mmm Widebanded the car last night, cleaned up the fuel map clear to 19psi, these cfi injectors are odd.. I've got a higher ve at half throttle no load (5-10 vaccum) than i do at 19psi... funky map. Car pulls like a beast, clean a/f of 11.9-12.1 @wot, gets a little richer at the top of the map. decent power, intake temps spike to around 150 or so, highest map reading so far from a nice long pull was 227.

interesting stuff.. doug, up your req fuel to bring the ve points down :)

[murray]

G'day all, :wave:

Well I have recieved my ms and have started assembly. The choice I now have is:
1. Install D8 (John Zener Diode) or...
2. Install Jumper wire.
So my question is, what have you guys here done?? Do we need the John Zener??
Thanks in advance for your reply's
Regards,
Murray

[linuxman51]

mm that depends, are you planning on going straight to mss or just MS for the time being. BTW I haven't forgotten about the MS Faq, i've just been covered over with school. should be up in the near future

[murray]

I havn't made a final decision yet, but Most likely I will be going straight to mss. What's the difference with the diode??

[Boris740]

I havn't made a final decision yet, but Most likely I will be going straight to mss. What's the difference with the diode??

The zener diode blocks some of the residual low voltage noise that could appear at the coil primary and generate false rpm signal. The zener diode does not start to conduct until the voltage difference across it is greater than five volts.

[linuxman51]

still does a pretty terrible job, my car didnt idle at all until we pulled the tach signal from the hall sensor (it kept thinking the motor was going from 800rpms to like 13,000rpms and it would flood out)

you end up jumping some stuff, i posted up a thread about it some time back that should have all the info in it

[dirtbike]

Mine gives me rpm spikes of like 13000rpm but it's only for like one cycle so it's not enough to flood it.
I think if i ran a shielded rpm input to MS it would solve this.
laters
Nick

[Boris740]

Mine gives me rpm spikes of like 13000rpm but it's only for like one cycle so it's not enough to flood it.
I think if i ran a shielded rpm input to MS it would solve this.
laters
Nick

Do it but ground the shield at the MS end only also you might discover the wonders of ground loop noise. This issue comes up frequently in yahoo- megasquirt group. When I get to that stage I will attempt to solve the rpm pickup by feeding the primary of the ignition coil through a toroidal current sensing transformer. The secondary would now be completely isolated and relatively free to diddle with. Exactly how I do not know at the moment. If I find some time between the T5 transplant and earning a living I will post something.

[Hank Scorpio]

lol... good thing mine works fine cause alot of that just went over my head :-P

[the poi]

[quote:1f79c40d8f="dirtbike"]Mine gives me rpm spikes of like 13000rpm but it's only for like one cycle so it's not enough to flood it.
I think if i ran a shielded rpm input to MS it would solve this.
laters
Nick

Do it but ground the shield at the MS end only also you might discover the wonders of ground loop noise. This issue comes up frequently in yahoo- megasquirt group. When I get to that stage I will attempt to solve the rpm pickup by feeding the primary of the ignition coil through a toroidal current sensing transformer. The secondary would now be completely isolated and relatively free to diddle with. Exactly how I do not know at the moment. If I find some time between the T5 transplant and earning a living I will post something.[/quote:1f79c40d8f]thats actually not a bad idea; what advantages would you see of doing that over just a shielded wire? for that matter, whats the pulse comign off the coil gonna look like...and hows the secondary going to respond? Would there be a way to adjust the sensitivty of the coil to chagne the length of the pulse...heh, would there be any point?

[coldfusion21]

i have a question, im thinking about MS my car this spring thanx to my refund check and i had a few questions after reading the MS FAQ. does my 82 240 use EZK ignition? if it doesnt, what system does it use? is this sytem better or worse then the EZK for MS? and what is everyones opinion about the relay block? i know a few guys said they didnt see any need, and if you choose to not use it will you just make use of stock wiring with new relays? also how much are the stims and do i definatly need one? anyone have one they would want to sell/rent/borrow?

[linuxman51]

you've got a VR style ignition system, so in some aspects it would be easier, however if you want to control the ignition with the megasquirt, you'll end up having to buy a 2.0 or 2.2 distributor and ignition module (still shouldn't be much from a junkyard). I personally dont use the relay block, its not really required, it *might* make the underhood wiring a little cleaner, but that is really more up to how you wire things and how much time you spend making things nice.
also you might want to check out www.mini-ms.com, its got the relays and fuse block built in, and its got a weather proof automotive style connector.. (of course the price is a bit higher than regular ms)

and if you dont wanna fool with building the board yourself and would rather jump right into the wiring i'm building the boards for $50 (plus the cost of the kit.. check the thread in for sale)

[Matt Dupuis]

I'd like to add one thing - I haven't read the whole post in a while, and I've been wracking my brain trying to remember if anyone but me has attempted to use an EFI intake-mounted injector location on a 405 or 531 head?

For anyone trying this, I just want to make one thing clear for you - that head is not optimal to be used with a B23F or B230F/FT intake manifold. The reason is that the injectors point right at the intake valve when using the 160, 398, or 530 head, but due to the "swan neck" of the 405/531 intake port, the injectors point right at the port floor.

This is not good, because we ALL know that fuel injectors are TERRIBLE atomizers, right? They require the heat from the back of the intake valve to vapourize the fuel properly to burn. Some injectors atomize better than others - the stock 357 "green tops" don't do too badly in this regard, but I've still noticed several running problems all related to fuel dropout.

What's worse is when you try to use bigger injectors. I believe Kenny, Doug, and myself are all using the same big 'ol Lucas injectors. Some of us are calling them 49 #/hr, some are calling them 55 #/hr, but I think they're all the same. One thing I'm fairly sure they share is the spray pattern: basically they have about as much "spray" as piss hitting a wall. A narrow, focused jet that absolutely REQUIRES the heat of the intake valve for vapourization!

I've been having troubles with hot starts and hot running, plus seemingly erratic air temperature corrections from morning to afternoon. I've attempted lots of bandaids - relocating IAT sensor, recoding the Megasquirt, etc. - but I think I've finally found the problem, and therefore the soloution.

When using a 405 head in an EFI application, unless you're using stock injectors, I strongly reccommend you relocate them to the K-jet holes. This is not particularly difficult, but it does require use of a welder...

I know, I know - there were 531s that used EFI, and they've got the same intake port - what about those? Well, I didn't have as much trouble in my car with the stock sized injectors, and if you use CFI injectors (assuming they spray acceptably well) you might be okay. I'm not saying that you CAN'T use the B23F intake manifold, I'm just saying that it's not the best thing to do.

Just FYI. Here are some pix of my head & fuel rail, modified for use in the K-jet holes:

http://members.shaw.ca/UglyDuck2/Volvo%20Project%20Pics/
http://members.shaw.ca/UglyDuck3/Volvo%20Project%20Pics/

For those following my progress currrently in Showroom - I apologize for seeming to toot my own horn. I'm not. I just want to get this info out before anyone else makes the same mistake I did. I also want to point out that I haven't driven the car yet, so I don't know if it will solve all my problems. I have very strong beliefs that it will, or at least 90% of them.

I may still try to relocate the regulator, use an EFI intake, and fire off Ford Taurus stainless injectors for water injection, using a separate MS box for that. You could use the DT code if you're not running an MS ignition, or you could run MegaEDIS, which is a Megasquirt-based standalone ignition.

Consider, discuss, dismiss. Whatever.

[Boris740]

FYI Megasquirt N spark version 3.0 was released last night (well, he calls it a beta, but what about this stuff isnt :wink:).
NOTE: MSS v3.0 requires a MegaTuneSS v3.0 so remember to download the new
[/quote:d20e93a2c0]
yes the outputs could be used to drive a boost controller... 8-)

So, if you havent had a reason to switch to ms yet, what're you waiting for now?

Whre are those files? I looked for MSS v3.0 in:

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/megasquirtnspark/files/

Most of the files there are from last year.

[linuxman51]

they're in there. There hasnt been a new version of MSS since about november iirc, the latest is like 3.01 or something. Just get the highest version numbers

[Boris740]

they're in there. There hasnt been a new version of MSS since about november iirc, the latest is like 3.01 or something. Just get the highest version numbers


I found and installed MegatuneSS but all I get is a blank window. My old Megatune works just fine. Both are on COM1.

[linuxman51]

I found and installed MegatuneSS but all I get is a blank window. My old Megatune works just fine. Both are on COM1.



hahahaha, megatuneSS is a bit spartan when compared with megatune. You'll find all the stuff you need on the drop down menus. It won't work if you're not using mss firmware on the controller (obviously)

[Boris740]

hahahaha, megatuneSS is a bit spartan when compared with megatune. You'll find all the stuff you need on the drop down menus. It won't work if you're not using mss firmware on the controller (obviously)

My software IQ runs into negative numbers. Here is the excerpt from General Instructions"

Since MSS is compatible with MS all configuration software
available for MS works with MSS.
To configure the ignition a new configuration tool called
MegaTuneSS has been developed

I have no idea what to do about the firmware. When I figure it out and update it, will MS&S work without the spark? I am planning to install MS first but would like to update to MS&S as soon as I get it of the ground.

Last time I coded anything it was on TRS80 and it was in assembly. All I remember is DJNZB - decrement B register and jump if not zero. I hope the I don't have do descend to bit fiddling again. Not the there is anything wrong with that. It is just the I am not very bright.

[linuxman51]

you hafta change things on the board for ms&s, if you're planning on fuel tuning first, do that, then make the needed changes, and then start working on the spark software.

in order to upgrade the firmware (don't forget to back up the map thats on the board when you do, it'll be gone after you update).

first off, you need to download the latest controller code version from the files section of megasquirt n spark (the yahoo group)

then you need to mosey on over to the yahoo megasquirt group, and download "tools.zip" from the utilities directory (i think thats where it is).

now, if you're using some other coolant temp sensor from the default GM, you'll also need to download easytherm..

Next, unzip easytherm, then unzip the mss controller code to the same directory as easytherm.

go to that directory in explorer(or whatever), and rename megasquirt.s19 to something like megasquirt-nospark.s19 (or something else equally distinct). then rename megasquirtnspark.s19 to megasquirt.s19
fire up easytherm, plug in the resistance values for your sensor (and if its the factory bosch, I want em cause i lost mine). click the "write inc and s19" button.
there will be a megasquirt-mod.s19, and a bunch of .inc files. the inc files are for megatune, you copy those into the directory with it, the mod file is the one you need to upload to the controller.

next, unzip tools.zip (or mstools or whatever its called now), I chose to put it in c:\ and leave it be for ease of use, copy the megasquirt-mod file to the same directory as tools, rename it to megasquirt.s19.
bust out the board, take it out of its enclosure, and jump the two pins next to the processor labeled "boot". power it up, and then run this command from the command line:

download -c1 megasquirt.s19 (where c# is the number of the comm port, c2 for com2, etc)

it should chatter on for a minute and then terminate, turn the board off, remove the jumper, and voila, you've got new firmware.

[The Aspirator]

Boris, in the megatuneSS program, you have to create your own gauge. It's under View/New Meter, then select a bunch of gauges that you'd like to view and save the layout for future use. Unfortunatly your layout doesn't open up every time you enter MegatuneSS, but I really wish it did. You just hafta open your layout each time.

Kenny, got these from Fullup1 a while ago:

File generated for use with stock 2490 ohm resistor at R7
Temp Resistance
-4 28681
86 2238
210 177

I think that's all you need for easytherm right?

On another note, ThePoi just informed me about a new version of MegaTune, v2.25 BETA.
Can be downloaded here. (http://not2fast.wryday.com/megasquirt/mt/prerelease/)
It's pretty sweet! I didn't really dig into the old one at all, but I've been finding all sortsa features in this one. I can make the gauges any color I want, put any gauge in any location I want, The Poi and I even made up a true "Vacuum/Boost" gauge. And it works great! No more reading KPA and trying to figure out what that really means. Also, you can create an A/F gauge that actually reads in A/F (ie, 14.7, 12.9, etc) instead of just voltage, although you can do that too. The A/F gauge can be used for Wideband AND Narrow band O2 sensors, but it's kinda squirly with the NB sensor, jumps around too quickly.

For my colors I'm trying to go with the "Dave Barton" look :) . Matches my real gauges perfectly.
Check the screenshot here (http://www.vipinfoservices.com/john/images/betascreenshot.jpg)

[linuxman51]

On another note, ThePoi just informed me about a new version of MegaTune, v2.25 BETA.
Can be downloaded here. (http://not2fast.wryday.com/megasquirt/mt/prerelease/)
It's pretty sweet! I didn't really dig into the old one at all, but I've been finding all sortsa features in this one. I can make the gauges any color I want, put any gauge in any location I want, The Poi and I even made up a true "Vacuum/Boost" gauge. And it works great! No more reading KPA and trying to figure out what that really means. Also, you can create an A/F gauge that actually reads in A/F (ie, 14.7, 12.9, etc) instead of just voltage, although you can do that too. The A/F gauge can be used for Wideband AND Narrow band O2 sensors, but it's kinda squirly with the NB sensor, jumps around too quickly.

For my colors I'm trying to go with the "Dave Barton" look :) . Matches my real gauges perfectly.
Check the screenshot here (http://www.vipinfoservices.com/john/images/betascreenshot.jpg)

be careful with that version, its done some "strange" things to me while i've been using it (like growing the fuel map) It does have a bunch of nice features tho, the generate ve table one is kinda cool (but it sucks for boosted engines)

[the poi]

be careful with that version, its done some "strange" things to me while i've been using it (like growing the fuel map) It does have a bunch of nice features tho, the generate ve table one is kinda cool (but it sucks for boosted engines)
errr. "grows" it? sounds terrifying...whats that mean?

heres the combigauge code btw, throw it in a txt file, call it boostVacGuage.ini


[MegaTune]
MTversion = 2.25
; Origianlly Eliot Mansfield's boost and vacuum gauges,
; Spliced into one gauge
; To use, stick an include line at the end of the megatune.ini file.
;
; #include "boostVacGauge.ini"
;

[OutputChannels]
comb = {map < barometer ? (map-barometer)*0.2953007 : (map-barometer)*0.1450377 } ; Calculate vacuum in in-Hg. for vac, changes to psi for boost

[GaugeConfigurations]
; Name Var Title Units Lo Hi LoD LoW HiW HiD vd ld
combiGauge = comb, "Engine Boost", "in-HG/PSIG",-30, 30, 0, 0, 30, 30, 1, 1

[FrontPage]
gauge8 = combiGauge

[coldfusion21]

matt i have some question about your set-up.
1. what mods have you done to the head and to the injectors to get them to fit so nicely in the k-jet holes?
2. is the only reason your planning on relocating the regulator is so you can shove a injector in the #1 stop on the manifold?
3. you didnt weld to the fuel rail did you? simply welded the brackets that hold the rail down right?
4. did you paint your injectors or is that just me?
Kenny:
say i wanted to keep my stock ignition for now, untill i get MS tuned up and running solid, then switching to MSS, what do i do with my stock ignition stuff? anything i need to be aware of when making the board to better suit using the stock ignition system first?
i supose these questions might be better posed to someone who dealt with k-jet as oposed to LH, but i wasnt sure and you are just the general MS genius so i figured you could atleast point me in the right direction.

Jared

EDIT: Matt i must say your a genius, looking at some of those pictures i am amazed by the creativity and that exactly what makes this board so awesome, people like you. you have given me some awesome ideas for my set-up and already incountered some of the problems and came up with solutions for them that i am not sure i could have dreamed up.

[linuxman51]

matt i have some question about your set-up.
1. what mods have you done to the head and to the injectors to get them to fit so nicely in the k-jet holes?
2. is the only reason your planning on relocating the regulator is so you can shove a injector in the #1 stop on the manifold?
3. you didnt weld to the fuel rail did you? simply welded the brackets that hold the rail down right?
4. did you paint your injectors or is that just me?
Kenny:
say i wanted to keep my stock ignition for now, untill i get MS tuned up and running solid, then switching to MSS, what do i do with my stock ignition stuff? anything i need to be aware of when making the board to better suit using the stock ignition system first?
i supose these questions might be better posed to someone who dealt with k-jet as oposed to LH, but i wasnt sure and you are just the general MS genius so i figured you could atleast point me in the right direction.


asside from the generic notes in the assembly/tuning guide that reference resistor values, you might not need to make any changes (i did, didnt solve my problem, tach jumping from 700 rpms to 16,000). You will need an lh 2.2 distro and an ignition module from a 2.2 or 2.4 car to wire up ms & s

[coldfusion21]

what if i just want to stay with my current ignition, any changes?

[linuxman51]

what if i just want to stay with my current ignition, any changes?

you dont get ms & s if you retain the kjet ignition, you get... ms haha

[coldfusion21]

well yea, i know that much, but what do i do as far as iginition? i want to retain stock stuff as much as possible...

[linuxman51]

well yea, i know that much, but what do i do as far as iginition? i want to retain stock stuff as much as possible...

I dont get where you're going wiht this..

[coldfusion21]

i just want to run MS, atleast for a while, then go to MS&S, so i need to find out how to retain stock stuff for ignition till i get MS&S up and running. i dont know how much of the stock stuff i need to keep and so on and so forth. that was my question, how to run just MS, no spark right now.

[The Aspirator]

When you install MS, rip out everything fuel system related and just leave all the igntion parts alone. Simple as that. The fuel system and ignition systems are two different things, and as far as I know, the wiring harnesses are seperate. Does that answer your question?

John

[coldfusion21]

yes, it does, sorry for all the confusion. i just want to only have to worry about one thing at a time and evenually i will be going MS&s but it can wait for a while.
if anyone else has any opinions on leaving the stock k-jet ignition stuff please post, i would love to hear it.

[linuxman51]

ok cool, aspirator is correct. Sorry, i misread and got confused about what you were saying hahah :)

[coldfusion21]

no prob. i do have anouther question tho, what sensors does the k-jet ignition use? i want to know what i can get rid of and such.

[linuxman51]

no prob. i do have anouther question tho, what sensors does the k-jet ignition use? i want to know what i can get rid of and such.

i suspect the distro and the ignition box hooked up to it, i dont think its more sophisticated than that

[coldfusion21]

wow hmm, that should make things alot easier. when i first hook MS up, should i even bother trying to get a tach signal from the coil?

[The Aspirator]

I don't think there are any ignition related sensors in the K-jet system, but you'll definatly find out for sure once you start ripping the wiring harness apart.

When I first hooked up MS I went for the gold and did the whole MSnS all at once. Not the smartest thing to do, espeically without a timing light, and without following the instructions properly..... All my megasquirt problems at first were ignition related, so it should be easy to just setup the fuel part.

Megasquirt and your tachometer need a tach signal from the coil. It's not until you go to MSnS that MS gets the tach signal from the hall sensor, but your dash tach still gets the signal from the coil. Make sense?

John

[coldfusion21]

yea, i was under the impression that if you couldnt get a clean signal from the coil that you would grab one from the hall sensor, but if thats just for MSnS thats just dandy. sounds like the initial install should be to hard...

[coldfusion21]

next question, how hard is it to wire MS to a crane cams ignition system? has anyone done this?

[pbonsalb]

You attach the MS tach/ignition/coil input to the Crane tach output (green on my Hi6R). I have MS on an 89 745T with a Crane Hi6R.

I have not graduated to MSnS yet. I need to get the WB02 installed and then get the MS tuned. Then I will add another variable, the ignition, to the equation.

Philip Bradley

[coldfusion21]

how do you like the crane systems? MSD seems to be more popular but im not sure why, it might just be advertising or something. so far if i can get my hands on a ignition system like the crane ones or an msd, that would be awesome as it would be as simple MS install as what im gonna be doing with my k-jet ignition, and im sure it would be a huge improvement. also the crane system seems to have alot of cool features, but i have some reservations on that as far as cool if it has all the features but i would rather it work right and have no features then alot a features and needing constant tweaking.

[pbonsalb]

Every aftermarket ignition I have had (two Crane, one MSD, and one Jacobs) have failed except the latest Crane. The Jacobs was the worst. The Crane is digital, which is a little more advanced than the MSD 6AL. The Crane is also fully potted. Someone is selling one in the for sale section at a great price if it is a Hi6R and not a Hi6S.

I have never had a stock ignition fail -- don't expect the aftermarket ones to be more reliable. Don't buy one unless you need one. I have never noticed any difference, with the entire ignition, on either a 242T or a 745T, compared to stock in terms of performance. I bought the last one for the boost retard not for any added performance.

Philip Bradley

[coldfusion21]

yea im hoping to get the one that for sale, someone else called it but maybe just maybe...
yea the only reason i was thinking is if i can get it rather cheap, its super adjustable, has all those fancy features and would clean up my engine bay a bunch. what is the difference between the first crane you had and the second? just chance that this one hasnt gone or what?

[coldfusion21]

Matt: i found a b23 fuel rail in the junkyard the other day and noticed that it has the fuel rail relocated, have to tried using one of these instead of the b230 ones? i dont have a good way of testing fit, but it looks like it would move the regulator down next to the distributor which may or may not cause a problem (might be a tad bit to close)
just something i thought of while i was there.

[The Aspirator]

far if i can get my hands on a ignition system like the crane ones or an msd, that would be awesome as it would be as simple MS install as what im gonna be doing with my k-jet ignition, and im sure it would be a huge improvement. MegaSpark would be way cheaper, like way way way cheaper. You need an LH2.2 dizzy and an ignition module, $50 tops. And it's soooooooooooooo tuneable, just as much as MegaSquirt.

John

[coldfusion21]

the only reason i dont want to do that is becuause to me it would seem easier to tune fuel seperatly, then go to MSnS. i know you did it all at once, would you do it that way again?

[The Aspirator]

Alls I was sayin is that the Megaspark will be cheaper than any aftermarket ignition system. Yeah, I did mine all at once..... and personally I'd probably do it again, now that I know all the quirks involved. But for you, and any other MS newb, I would suggest fuel first, then upgrade to megaspark. It simplifies things, cause the ignition side gets tricky to tune... Sometimes it's hard to know whether to tune fuel or ignition to cure a problem.

Ohh, and Dale (245gti) just told me that he's running the stock K-jet ignition with his megasquirt, so it's entirely possible.

John

[coldfusion21]

yea thats cool, im prolly going to do the k-jet deal, alot simpler right now. the only reason i was gonna do the aftermarket deal was if i could find one cheap. other wise its to expensive for me.

[coldfusion21]

what is the PN for the recomemded ignition module and what cars have them? just something i want to keep my eye out for next time im at the JY. and LH 2.2 is what years?

[The Aspirator]

Lh2.2 started in '85 and went for a few years, maybe till '89 or so. You want the ignition module with the last few numbers being either 124 or 129. They come on 700's near the battery and supposedly 240's got them, but the '86 I checked out did not have it.

John

[linuxman51]

240's got them as well, same location approximately as on 700's, but they didnt get them until 86-87 whenever they stopped using that bizzare black box on the passenger side.

[n xntrx volvo]

this thread is waaaaaaay too long, is there a way to clean it up? i just read all 319 posts.
and 6 hrs on the web on other ms bs.
i guess i'm just going to have to bug kenny.
questions still for ms&s
so a 93 240 tps is a drop in, no other models had them?
i can wire it in a the ecu location? if so, i wouldn't need a pigtail, just a serial conn?
wire a gm cage temp for the inlet temp, is the ic (hot) the prefered way now?
i have a msd 6a, will that work?
are the ms, s units separate or a flash to the cpu?
what the deal with the iac mods, mine wont have a screw (going to b234f tb)?
browntops are low impedance right, requiring the resist? is there a mod to keep them as low impedence?
with a msd, is the ign module needed? i have one, with the ecu pos, no harness right?
my zex takes a signal from the tps, will this mess w/ the ms's signal?
whats the deal with wideband? why? how?
more ?'s later, my mind is a bit fried right now.
-Aaron

[linuxman51]

any variable rate tps you can get will work
you want the IAT sensor on the cold side

I dont get what you're asking about the connector


ms&s is a FLASH UPGRADE its NOT a seperate controller

you can hook up a 6A

get an on/off style IAC and use a programmable output to control it


You can run low imp in PWM mode but installing resistors is easier. With the msd you might still need the igntion module

you can trigger the nos from an output on the ecu

and you want a wideband of some form to tune with, be it the one thats going to be released for ms or one of the other ones

[n xntrx volvo]

so a ms&s is $200
relay board $85
Shipping $12
so approx 300, turn around is?
the pigtail just goes to the harness right? cuz, if i'm wiring into stock ecu loc, i could just get the plug at fry's right?
i'd like a 3.1 since its a no mod volvo mod (i like the finished, pro look of that kind of stuff), even if nobody sees it, i know its there. what'd 3.1 come in?
when the wideband becomes avail, it'll be a flash/ easy to upgrade?
what do people use for the iac, j/y avail perfered?
is there a way to use ms as a a ebc by hooking up a ebc soliniod, since its already processing boost?
is there a megaviwer program for win ce?
am i reading this right, a ms fires the inj in banks, (ie 1&3, 2&4, etc) instead of individualy? wouldn't thi be bad, as on intake valve on one wouldn't be open, causing poor atomization?
not sure if my 240 has a module, will a powerstage out of a 740t work?
i would like to keep the low imped through the pwm, for the fine cycling control, is this still causing problem for people?
is the msd ness? mines been acting funny.
i'm glad i grabbed the eng harness out of the parts car now.
correct me as needed
thanks
-Aaron B.

[linuxman51]

volvo uses batch fire anyway, I fire mine all off of inj1. (so in case you're not paying attention, thats three injection events before the valve opens on any given chamber. same as volvo oem)

the pigtail is an unterminated wireing harness, out of the box it doesnt go anywhere, and I dont know what plug you're refering to..

As per the wb for megasquirt, I dunno, they're being super tight about the info for some reason

As far as *I* know theres nothing for win ce

the ignition module (powerstage) from a 740 turbo will work fine.

the IAC i'm planning on starting to use comes off of later model stuff, 740 16v's have it, 940 na and turbo's have it, its a two wire on off thing.

as for boost control, dual table code does this sort of, thats about as far as that goes. the vibe i got from the list is if you want an ebc, buy one suited for the job.

Turnaround for one with a relay board is going to be a bout 5 days + time it takes to get the stuff from my supplier, which ranges anywhere from a day or two to several weeks (i would say on average about two weeks with deviations either way)

[n xntrx volvo]

my zex isn't a typical nos setup. no external sol. its got a very basic controller. that reads eng pressure, and tps signal. it adj the fuel rail pressure and no2 delivery accordingly. so in short, it'll be tapping off the tps, any known problems? it doesn't now, but tps isn't real precise on lh 2.2.
it says the relay board isn't needed, your thoughts?
found this on the forum site you postd today (re win ce)
http://garysphotography.com/pockettune/
heard any feedback on it? would be nice as my pda screen is din size (hp 680).
the pigtail looks like a serial connector w/ wires attached, is this right?
do you think its worth waiting for ultra-ms?
you dont do these
http://jubjub.mine.nu/wbparts.html
for wb - o2?
the point of the ebc was to see if i could eliminate as many piggys as poss., shame on that, i'll search more, maybe somebodys done it. any thought on what this guy said on ebc
http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=1771
so what'd be the total, excluding the stuff i'll get on my end?
more bugging later,
-Aaron B.

[linuxman51]

my zex isn't a typical nos setup. no external sol. its got a very basic controller. that reads eng pressure, and tps signal. it adj the fuel rail pressure and no2 delivery accordingly. so in short, it'll be tapping off the tps, any known problems? it doesn't now, but tps isn't real precise on lh 2.2.
it says the relay board isn't needed, your thoughts?
found this on the forum site you postd today (re win ce)
http://garysphotography.com/pockettune/
heard any feedback on it? would be nice as my pda screen is din size (hp 680).
the pigtail looks like a serial connector w/ wires attached, is this right?
do you think its worth waiting for ultra-ms?
you dont do these
http://jubjub.mine.nu/wbparts.html
for wb - o2?
the point of the ebc was to see if i could eliminate as many piggys as poss., shame on that, i'll search more, maybe somebodys done it. any thought on what this guy said on ebc
http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=1771
so what'd be the total, excluding the stuff i'll get on my end?
more bugging later,
-Aaron B.

first Re the winCE: I dont have a wince device so i can't honestly say one way or the other. download it and try and see.

the pigtail is the db37 connector with color coded wires (if you want to roll your own, the kit comes with it either way, the $200 doesnt have any wires attached)

ultra MS is currently without a release date, as is MS 2.0 (a supposedly drop in upgrade). If I were going out to buy a wideband controller right now, I'd buy the Innovative one. I trust my soldering skills, but I like a warranty more.

I dont and dont have plans to run a relay board. if you're doing fuel only, I would highly recomend it, but I'm not sure how well the fuel & spark would react, and you'd still need a hackish relay cable.

if you want your nos to work in conjunction pm me more details about it and we'll see if we can come up with something.

-k.

[n xntrx volvo]

bump for da new ms'rs

[Magnum TE]

well this article turned into a cluster F#%&.

I think it needs some thinning, 7 pages is too much for an article.. and yeah delete my post first. ;)

[linuxman51]

well this article turned into a cluster F#%&.

I think it needs some thinning, 7 pages is too much for an article.. and yeah delete my post first. ;)

for a more concise writeup you might wanna read the one i did on installing it, then if you run into problems consult back to this thread, altho the tps info in here w/ the pics is verr nice

[malloy1]

This is a sensor that fits the thermo time switch hole on B21 engines.

Someone gave me a lead on an Audi ECT with the correct pitch I was looking for.

After a pretty long search on the internet, and taking a chance that this sensor was the correct part, it worked out.

I just wanted to FYI for anyone looking for a similiar ECT part.

Bosch Sensor- Part #0 280 130 037
Thread Size 14mm X 1.5 pitch
Resistence: Approximately 200 ohms at 212 degrees F (100C), approximately 2800 ohms at 68F (20C), and approximately 6000 ohms at 32F (0C), and approximately 11,000 ohms at-4 degrees F, (-20C).

Part could not be found using the Bosch part #. The part number that works is Part # C6020-12900. I located it using an '92 Audi S4 QT 20V, but the cheapest I found was through a VW part number. This site has it for $22 + $7 shipping and handling:

http://www.autopartsauthority.com/oemmakes/volkswagen~Lambda_Idle_Sensor~oemparts.html

Hope it helps someone in the future.

Paul

[Tenacious Todd]

Doug nice writeup.Anything you thought about now you may have done differently? Ideas tricks ETC..

[stylngle2003]

the hot lick seems to be converting MS first, then after you have it running, swap over the ignition side.

[linuxman51]

the hot lick seems to be converting MS first, then after you have it running, swap over the ignition side.


not really. if you can get it up and running with ms&s you're far better off

[TheSaint77]

i wonder if somebody has a drawing or a little sketch with some dimensions for the 850 TPS plate, to make it fit to the B230F throttle body. Caus i see many people do it here. Or if someone has a pencil note with dimensions I could make a CAD drawing of it to help myself and others in the future?

[TheSaint77]

BUMP!:roll:

[242Fast]

seems to me that everyone's throttle body is different so you need an adjustment slot so you can adjust a "universal" plate to match up with your throttle body. i think stereophile made one out of aluminum. i just found a prudential sign in our garage (aluminum) and used a hack saw, tin snips, and other common grinding and cutting tools to make a plate to change the bolt pattern -- nothing worth showing off but it'll never break and it's behind the throttle so no one will ever see it :)


http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=101362&highlight=tps

[TheSaint77]

OK, so i made my on drawing of this TPS adapterplate. So why not share it. It is simple. All is in millimeters. I made it in 35 minutes.

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/5026/240850tpsadapterjx4.th.jpg (http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=240850tpsadapterjx4.jpg)

[740ATL]

OK, so i made my on drawing of this TPS adapterplate. So why not share it. It is simple. All is in millimeters. I made it in 35 minutes.

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/5026/240850tpsadapterjx4.th.jpg (http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=240850tpsadapterjx4.jpg)
I made mine in 5 minutes. I traced the outline of the TPS I wanted to use onto a thin piece of steel. Cut around the edges. Simple. Don't make it a project.

[DecalServiceBrett]

I made mine in 5 minutes. I traced the outline of the TPS I wanted to use onto a thin piece of steel. Cut around the edges. Simple. Don't make it a project.

+1 - i made mine in what seemed 5 minutes, but due to excessive green, it took an hour :-P

[TheSaint77]

:roll:well, time wasn't the issue. It was that i wanted it to fit nicely at once. And leave out the bracket wich was there for the old stock TPS. Caus i seen ppl place another bracket on a bracket. I didnt like that.

This was direct fit at once and i hope ppl can take advantage of this drawing i made. Just for fun and to help others around. I also learn much of you guys here on the forum so this is also to do something back to others wich follow us. ;-);-)

[TheSaint77]

Wondering, is there anybody who has nice pictures how to mount the triggerwheel to the crank?:roll: And the VR-sensor offcourse. Caus i am going to place mine but i'm interested in how others did this.

[The Aspirator]

Here's how you mount the Edis trigger wheel on to a redblock:
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=110373&highlight=trigger+wheel
and
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=104927&highlight=trigger+wheel