Uh oh... turbo is too small, now what?

[Geoff240Ti]

This seems like a noob question, but at the same time I Just want to make the right choice since I plan on dropping some decent coin on a new turbo .

Instead of driving my new 242 as is (after replacing the unknown faulty head), I've decided to take it off the road and install all my mods which I have. Here is what I've got to deal with right now (as in paid for)

Rebuilt B21ft courtesy of Nick with 15,000miles
MVP 3"exhaust
Megasquirt (only have 46lbs cfi injectors right now)
Techedge wideband
Rebuilt 531 head
k-cam (for now)
Ported 90+ (until I find a header :grrr: )
Powerstroke IC
2 stage alcohol/water injection kit (aquamist)
T5 transmission

So... there is what I have to deal with. I've already ran 15 psi on a basically stock b21ft. I'm looking to make good use out of tuning with MS and having alcohol injection to get a higher "safe" boost level. I would like to be able to run at least 20 PSI efficiently. This is not my daily driver so I would like to maximize the power I can get from the parts I currently have.

So the question is if you were spending $400-$1000 on a turbo, what would be the best for my setup? Now i'd rather spend $500 then $1000, but I am willing to go the extra if it will give me much more.

Input?

[Unregistered]

www.atpturbo.com

take a look, although i don't really know about the size you should get

[boosted12a]

holset hx30, 325$ new off of evil bay, or a ported 15g for around 300$ from t-brick members

[Stereophile33]

Garrett GT30

[olov]

i'd say something pretty big, holset?

[drftvlvo240]

anything garrett

[mAydAy]

big 16g. Would be cool to see something different.

-Andy

[Geoff240Ti]

Holset tempts me.. the price is good and you can make some decent power from them. But would a different turbo give me more power across the whole RPM band?

I read alot about people running ported 15G's... but don't hear many running over 20PSI with them. I need to compensate for the low comp ratio on the B21ft's.

16G... I must say I'm in the dark when it comes to mitsu turbo's. I've only been looking into Garrett's lately, i should maybe start reading up on them!

How about something like this?
http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=TBN-TBO-014&Category_Code=TBN

As you can see.. i really don't know what I want! :???:

If it was your car, what would you run?

[linuxman51]

t3/t4 50 trim compressor, and a decent turbine wheel in a 63 a/r turbine housing.. the only bitch about that whole list is the b21. a 40 trim would spool a bit quicker.

[grebnut]

HY35W holset. spools quick (dont knock it until you've tried it.) and hits hard.

ben

[olov]

wasn't toby(infector 944) running a 16g? he had some useful info on getting them to work on our mani's if so

[Renny_D]

wasn't toby(infector 944) running a 16g? he had some useful info on getting them to work on our mani's if so

If willing to go slightly smaller than a 16G there is the TD04/16T which is a stock volvo turbo. I believe these came off of the V70 turbo. I'll be mounting mine soon so I can give feed back. With that the CFIs and a 4bar regulator I should be able to run decent boost. What I like most is the outlet of the turbine is 3in to start with. There's also the TD05/19t which would be all the turbo you need and is also stock volvo but alot harder to find.

Thanks
Renny

[linuxman51]

15g's and the assortment of other fwd turbos range from small to adequate on the cold side and very much inadequate on the exhaust side.

that is, unless, your primary goal for the car is pulling up tree stumps in a field

[benflynn]

pull one off a cummins dumptruck

[The Aspirator]

HY35W holset. spools quick (dont knock it until you've tried it.) and hits hard.

benDitto. Man I can't wait to get mine back on!

[Geoff240Ti]

So i'm swaying towards holset... HY35W is best?

Next issue is the external gate... John are you going to be running a volvo manifold when your holset goes back on? Or are you using that log header?

Ben I see your using a volvo manifold.. pre-90? I'll have to snoop through your album to see where your extrernal gate is located... but that's working out ok for you?

Damn I wish someone local would make me a header.. or that there was a reliable source online. :-(

[The Aspirator]

Ben and Doug use the HY35W, with the 4" exhaust outlet and I *think* 9cm exhaust housing (small for quick spool). Mine is an HX35W with a 3" outlet and a much larger exhaust housing. I think it's either 12/16/18cm, but that's just what I've read they come with, and I haven't seen a number on mine to tell what it actually is. But with such a huge turbo on our small engines, I'm guessing smaller is better.

Ben is using a pre-90. Check out his Pbase for some sweet pics of his setup. When I put mine back on I'll use a 90+ mani, and go external. The turbine housing is similar to a volvo T3 in that it's got the exhaust outlet and the wastegate hole. I'm going to basically run some bends welded to that hole up to my wastegate. Hard to explain, but it makes sense in my head :-P . Ever seen that pic of the wastegate setup from one of the MVP guys? I think it was Peter Lissen, it's a few years old, but sorta like what I'm planning..

John

[Captain Bondo]

I hate to say it but those are some pretty random suggestions boys. The mitsus are fine but waaay overpriced. Holsets are neat but why you want to hang 40lbs worth of cast iron on you already-crack-prone and overweight stock manifold just to have brutal lag is beyond me. If you're on the cheap then fine, but if you want a broad powerband and are willing to spend "decent coin" look elsewhere.

New brand-name hybrid turbos have gotten way cheaper recently and will continue to do so as the GT turbo "out date" them (not that they'll go away any time soon). A place like precision turbo should be able to make you up a nice 50 trim to4e hybrid with a 0.48 or 0.63 t5 exhasut housing and a stage 2 or 3 turbine for about 750 bucks. No jacking around. No BS. No nights awake staring at the cieling wondering if the turbo you bought from Bob's house of hairdryers is going to eat it and spray oil all over your car next week. No lag worries, good efficency, no compressor surge, and mor eimportantly PROPERLY SIZED. That way you don't need some BOAT ANCHOR of an external wastegate either. Again, the audi gates are nice and the tial gates are really nice, but they might as well be made from lead. A proper wastegate from somewher elikie HKS would be a big bonus. People have issues with breaking welds on manifolds with teh tial and audi. Well hmm, it's like 10 lbs sticking way out on a pipe that the motor is vibrating the crap out of. ;-)

But anyways a proper turbo like that will do fine with a nice simple internal gate right up to 350hp or so. If you run into a setup that requires the diversion of tons and tons of exhaust gas, you are diverting tons and tons of what should be being used as useful energy for boost.

So by the time you fool around cobbling together all kind sof weird stuff that *kinda works, you could have talking to a pro shop that builds these babies all the time. And you can trust them and if you have an issue they'll help you.

There's my rant, feel free to take it or ignore it. :)
Have fun!

[Morley]

Holsets are neat but why you want to hang 40lbs worth of cast iron on you already-crack-prone and overweight stock manifold


:urgod: Capn Bondo is right. Truck turbos are nice, but also heavier than lead. No go get a decent t3/t4 hybrid, mkay?

Mine with a stage V wheel and .63exhaust/.50compressor spools at 3000rpm, with ported 531 head and B23 though.

You might also want to get yourself a ported 90+ mainfold.

[Geoff240Ti]

I hate to say it but those are some pretty random suggestions boys. The mitsus are fine but waaay overpriced. Holsets are neat but why you want to hang 40lbs worth of cast iron on you already-crack-prone and overweight stock manifold just to have brutal lag is beyond me. If you're on the cheap then fine, but if you want a broad powerband and are willing to spend "decent coin" look elsewhere.

New brand-name hybrid turbos have gotten way cheaper recently and will continue to do so as the GT turbo "out date" them (not that they'll go away any time soon). A place like precision turbo should be able to make you up a nice 50 trim to4e hybrid with a 0.48 or 0.63 t5 exhasut housing and a stage 2 or 3 turbine for about 750 bucks. No jacking around. No BS. No nights awake staring at the cieling wondering if the turbo you bought from Bob's house of hairdryers is going to eat it and spray oil all over your car next week. No lag worries, good efficency, no compressor surge, and mor eimportantly PROPERLY SIZED. That way you don't need some BOAT ANCHOR of an external wastegate either. Again, the audi gates are nice and the tial gates are really nice, but they might as well be made from lead. A proper wastegate from somewher elikie HKS would be a big bonus. People have issues with breaking welds on manifolds with teh tial and audi. Well hmm, it's like 10 lbs sticking way out on a pipe that the motor is vibrating the crap out of. ;-)

But anyways a proper turbo like that will do fine with a nice simple internal gate right up to 350hp or so. If you run into a setup that requires the diversion of tons and tons of exhaust gas, you are diverting tons and tons of what should be being used as useful energy for boost.

So by the time you fool around cobbling together all kind sof weird stuff that *kinda works, you could have talking to a pro shop that builds these babies all the time. And you can trust them and if you have an issue they'll help you.

There's my rant, feel free to take it or ignore it. :)
Have fun!

That's more or less what I really wanted to hear. More expensive yes.. but from what i've been reading it's more sensible for what I am looking for. Worth the extra month wait for another check to roll around to fund a turbo I will really be happy with.

http://www.precisionturbo.net/turbochargers-display.php?company_id=101795&category_id=3026

One of the two turbo's at the top of the list fit the motor alright? Kenny.. I was running by your suggested specs when I went hunting. Rated for max 450 hp... now my goals arn't that high as of right now but that's a max rating.. I guess i'll give them an email or call and see what the pro's have to say about it. Whenever i get the rest of my car stuff out of the way i plan on building a new b23 up with some beefier internals, it would be nice to switch the turbo over. (it'll be a higher comp motor though..). However talk is cheap, who knows if that buildup will start in a few months or a year.

So I think i'm going to contact precisionturbo.. Any othe recommendations for getting a turbo sized up? If i can get something lovely for $750 it would not hurt my feelings at all!

[linuxman51]

New brand-name hybrid turbos have gotten way cheaper recently and will continue to do so as the GT turbo "out date" them (not that they'll go away any time soon). A place like precision turbo should be able to make you up a nice 50 trim to4e hybrid with a 0.48 or 0.63 t5


hm, what did I say back on the first page....

[tequila_gundam_no_chaser]

your working with a b21....That cast iron low-comp lump will be good for around 26psi so long as your engine management is good. Let us recall how doug was spiking to 30psi on his b21 before he swapped over to the b23, and it was still in fair shape. Frank yee also ran 30psi on his b23 before the rods disintegrated. Get your t04e and have fun.

[Geoff240Ti]

hm, what did I say back on the first page....

Sorry about the lack of credit given where credit was due. You called it too! Plus without your MS i probably wouldn't even get close to this far with my car.

your working with a b21....That cast iron low-comp lump will be good for around 26psi so long as your engine management is good. Let us recall how doug was spiking to 30psi on his b21 before he swapped over to the b23, and it was still in fair shape. Frank yee also ran 30psi on his b23 before the rods disintegrated. Get your t04e and have fun.

Mmmm 2 bar. That's what I like about tiny low comp b21's. I've never seen a b21ft treated well. I never treated my b21ft in my 244 well. You just don't hear people cracking them too much (although not many are running them for obvious reasons). The 244 has a b230ft now which is great for getting a to b. The 242 will get the snot reved out of it from A to A (hopefully not A to towtruck). If I blow this b21 up, i've got a backup that's in good shape. If I blow the backup-up well that gives me an excuse to build something fresh! Either way I want to run this biatch down the strip in my hopefully alot lighter 242 (around 2600lbs) and run faster then a 14 in the 1/4. Once I do that, i'll be content with the car for a few days or a couple of hours. Then i'll have to start screwing with it again (although I wish i wouldn't).

[Captain Bondo]

Kenny,
Didn't mean to steal your thunder. :roll: I was just adding some background and context and reasoning and specifics. :)
50 trim is indeed the best upgrade compressor bar none for pretty much any 8v 2.3 that has outgrown its stock turbo. JB and I used to go ff about that compressor ohhh, three years ago. ;-) Short of some of the new huge dollar GT stuff but it is all still price din the "hard to justify" bracket for most of us regular folk.

[DerSnart]

GT28RS w/.63 turbine housing from ATP would spool lightning quick and support enough power to keep you happy.

[volvorsport]

have to say what both kennys said , im running mine with an internal gate , and its fine apart from other isssues which arent spoool/size issues .

[Captain Bondo]

28rs is a pretty small turbo honestly (borderline but on the small side) and almost twice as much money. It'd work but if I was to drop that much money on a turbo I'd be looking at one of the hybrid GT turbo's based on the GT40 cold side like a GT4037 or something. Similar cost but far more flexible. 28rs is a great turbo for 2.0L or smaller 4 valve engine.

[DerSnart]

28rs is a pretty small turbo honestly (borderline but on the small side) and almost twice as much money. It'd work but if I was to drop that much money on a turbo I'd be looking at one of the hybrid GT turbo's based on the GT40 cold side like a GT4037 or something. Similar cost but far more flexible. 28rs is a great turbo for 2.0L or smaller 4 valve engine.

I guess I like response from a turbo... and when you get over the 300whp mark in Volvo's you need ALOT of cash to replace things that break/ upgrade to stronger things. The GT28RS will respond fast and support 300whp easily in the right configuration. I love my T3/T4's crazy insane top end power (even on the T-cam it was awesome), but I am going to the GT28 eventually because it fits my needs better than the T3/T4.

But you have a very good point... for the money something else might be a better alternative in this case. Spend less on the turbo and more on other things.

[Captain Bondo]

Yes very true. I actually must admit I seriously considered the 28rs for the P1800 racecar. The customer has zero driving experience with turbo engines and I want to build him something really tractable. Unfortunately it's just a tiny bit too small. But is is bordeline.

[linuxman51]

Kenny,
Didn't mean to steal your thunder. :roll: I was just adding some background and context and reasoning and specifics. :)
50 trim is indeed the best upgrade compressor bar none for pretty much any 8v 2.3 that has outgrown its stock turbo. JB and I used to go ff about that compressor ohhh, three years ago. ;-) Short of some of the new huge dollar GT stuff but it is all still price din the "hard to justify" bracket for most of us regular folk.



hehehe i was just pokin man..