Supercharger

[snoogans]

has anyone looked into supercharging their car?

[ManWithNoName]

For what purpose? There's already Turbo versions available and they'll make more power than a SC.

[snoogans]

throw a SC on the T5 and eliminate the lag and ADD power. ;)

[Hank Scorpio]

no, the bottom end on your motor would not be able to handle both. Plus super and turbo's don't work well together on gas motors, they work great on diesels though.

See if you can talk anyone into making adjustable cam gears and retime your cam, thats your best bet.

[Pomian Tech]

I don't know about the 60 models, but with the 850 models adjustable cam gears cam stock from the factory on the T5 models. Check out your set-up with the Volvo dealer.

[snoogans]

adjustable cams eh?
whats that

this would be the best way to improve low end performance?
what other ways can i improve the low end?

[Pomian Tech]

By increasing low-end performance, do you mean minimizing turbo lag?

[Hank Scorpio]

hey pomian what exactly do you do? Can you fab up parts?

[Pomian Tech]

I do a little bit of this and a little bit of that.... ;)

I have designed and fabricated parts before. What are you looking for?

[Hank Scorpio]

not sure yet. The project 242 car for this website is mine so I might need some stuff done. How about roll cages stuff like that?

[Pomian Tech]

I'm reluctant to do any safety equipment due to liability. I'm down for frame connectors and chassis work...

[snoogans]

Originally posted by Pomian Tech
By increasing low-end performance, do you mean minimizing turbo lag?

exactly

[JHEIII850Turbo]

Hey Snoogans,

You can always try the wastegate adjustment, it'll reduce turbo lag a little.. plus add boost, just make sure you get a boost gauge!

[Pomian Tech]

Originally posted by snoogans


exactly


Minimizing lag can be achieved in many ways. To start I suggest optimizing the air intake flow. I don't know that much about S60, but on the 850/V70 the air horns can be relocated, center bar removed, less restrictive grill installed (ie. Pomian Tech grill), turbo ducting with minimized bends installed, cold-air intake (ie. Pomian Tech Air Cage). Following I would suggest freeing up exhaust (ie. Pomian Tech down pipe/cat back system.) Next step would be boost controller. Whether you like blinking lights (electronic ApexI boost controller), or crudeness of alum minium, steel, and plastic (Pomian Tech manual boost controller) is up to you. Both set-ups have pro's and cons. With manual boost controller I suggest calibrated boost and air/fuel gauge. If you want to take it even further you are looking at:

ECU upgrades
Turbo pump optimization
Turbo hybrids
Turbo upgrade - complete
Porting and Polishing
Camshafts
Combustion chamber reshaping (squish)
...etc.

It's all up to you... :D :buck :ouch: :devil: :evillaugh

[Hank Scorpio]

Best bet, ipd upgraded chip. Exsaust would help loads. I think the s60 has a great air system, I mean it opens up right behind the grille, very hard to improve on it, one of the finest I've seen! I couldn't belive it.

[VolvoAddict]

What about a supercharger in a 960? I'm looking for a better reaction off the line, but don't want to go with NOS or something. From what I understand (the little about supercharges that I do) is that it forces extra air into the intake...? Is that right?

[steve s]

both superchargers and turbochargers force air into the engine. most come with an intercooler to cool the air from the turbo (sometimes supercharger too) to the engine. they differ in how they do that. turbochargers take the exhaust from the engine to drive an impeller that's connected to the turbine. as the engine produces more exhaust with higher rpm, the faster the turbo spools and the more air is forced into the engine (hence, more power). the downside which is talked all the time is turbo lag and lack of low-end power because it takes time to spool up the turbo. smaller turbos or twin-turbo systems help minimize this. as for superchargers, they are belt driven, so no lag at all. the boost is constant. but since it's driven by the belt, there is parasitic loss associated. not really a flaw, but just the way the design works. this setup is usually great for large displacement engines like v8's and stuff, because the parasitic loss is minimized as the v8's have enough umph to it already. our inline-5 turbo engines are really small...come to think of it.;)


i know the old 940s could have a mustang v8 dropped in them, tranny and all, with no problems. do the newer 960 and s90/v90 still have that option?

[VolvoAddict]

I'm pretty familiar with the turbo as I have an 850R as well, just wasn't too familiar about the supercharger setup. The 960 I have is the 2.9L 201HP engine, so I'm not sure if that's enough to make the supercharger worth it...any ideas?

Originally posted by steve s
i know the old 940s could have a mustang v8 dropped in them, tranny and all, with no problems. do the newer 960 and s90/v90 still have that option?

I did speak with Ross (Russ?) Converse at www.converseengineering.com and he said that it could be done with some work. The only other people that have done the conversion is Dave Letterman and a couple other big names he wouldn't devulge (sp) ;) I was thinking about dropping a V8 in the car, but it only has 108,000 miles on it and it runs perfectly. I know I could probably get about 4 grand for the engine and tranny, but finding a buyer, then finding a car to drive in the mean time while the conversion takes place is just too much to worry about right now. I definitely plan on doing the V8 (ford) conversion in the future though.

Thanks for the info Steve...

[steve s]

yeah, i've heard dave letterman did to that :)

must be a monster...sleeping monster...

[Volvord]

SuperChargers and Turbos can work very effectivly together, this was proven by Lancia in their world rally cars. Their's were set-up so that the supercharger would provide boost for low end power (torque) and as the rpm's increased the turbo would take over to eliminate the HP loss on the engine from the supercharger. It proved to be an ideal set-up.

I think it would provide the best of everthing, low end power and high end power/efficiency

[Hank Scorpio]

let me put this in real world terms,

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $

[Volvord]

Nobody mentioned that money was a factor... just kidding.

You are correct that this does cost big $$$ but that is the cost of performance.

[T5Man]

well nothing is for free...

[Mike 94 940T]

Guys
first I'm a newbie to this board but not Turbobricks and Saabnet.
So I hope I'm welcome here.

You guys do know that there is a cheap way to lower turbo lag. For about 35 bucks (less if you make it your self) you can install a grainger valve without increasing boost. This will allow the turbo to spool up as fast as possible, as the g-valve will not let the wastegage see any pressure until the preset amount is reached.
This can be done safley and since your not increasing boost (but it is fun to increase boost ;) your not putting your engine in danger.

Just my 2 cents
Michael

[snoogans]

reheheheheally?

you know what, 35 bucks sounds damn good. i have no idea what it does, or how to do it, but it sounds GREAT.

is this for real? will it work on my S60T5? and uhh, how do i do it!

:dude:

thanks man

[Mike 94 940T]

O.K. since you don't know what a g-valve is or what it does, you should do some research. You can do some reading at turbobricks.org look up g-valve, grainger valve, or Dawes Device. Also go to DawesDevice.com where you can buy the unit but also read on how it works.

I'll try to explane how it works. Basically the g-valve is a ball and spring check valve that opens at a set pressure. What this does is block any inputs to your wastegate until the preset pressure is meet then the wastegate will see pressure. How does this lower turbo lag? Say your wastegate is set at the factory at 10 psi (I'm just using random numbers here) the wastegate will start to open at a lower pressure around 5 psi, slowing the rate of increase in the boost pressure. Thats turbo lag. The g-valve blocks the pressure input from the wastegate making it think that there is no pressure, allowing the turbo to build to max boost in the shortest amount of time possible for that turbo.

You can also increase boost with the unit, but for that there are other considerations. You will need and should have a calibrated Boost gauge, and an Air fuel meter installed in you ride. This will allow you to know exactly what pressure your running and if your leaning out the fuel mixture.

Other ways to decrease turbo lag is to get a free flow exhaust and air intake. these three mods will allow you to run more power and if your careful you will not blow up your engine. Just make sure to do your homework ahead of time before attempting any, ANY of these mods. Hope I helped
Michael

[ChrisB]

Great idea... but one slight flaw for later turbo cars:

Most fuel injected turbo cars will have electronically controlled boost levels. This is done with a solonoid valve in the wastegate boost sense hose. The valve can switch beween showing the wastegate the pressure in the manifold, or atmospheric pressure.

The wastegate is set at a lower than required boost presuure, say 5psi or something.

All the wastegate see's untill the required boost level is reached is atmospheric pressure. Then the solonoid starts flicking between boost and atmostphere to keep the required boost level, eg 10psi.


So, after all that, on a modern turbo car with a boost control solonoid a g-valve would do sod all, or maybe worse, cause problems.

My old '93 440 Turbo has its boost electronically controlled. I'm quite sure bigger volvo's would have had this since 1985-1990 ish.

[Mike 94 940T]

As I'm a 940 guy I sometimes forget you other turbo guys have different ways to controll boost.

I have some questions about the solonoid that controlls boost. If the thing bleeds boost then your wastegate is still seeing pressure and opening up little by little. If that's the case then you can still use the g-valve to correct that.

I know Saab turbo's do something similar, with the APC system, and the g-valve can be used to lower turbo lag. Anyway it seems like snoogans has his homework to do.

Michael

[Hank Scorpio]

Thanks mike for the usefull information, it was also something I myself was intersted in.

Thank you!

[ChrisB]

Well, it does and it doesn't bleed boost.

The wastegate only see's atmosphere pressure untill the desired boost is reached. Then the ECU starts driving the solonoid valve with a square wave of varying duty cycle (a bit like an injector). The solonoid is piped with 2 inputs, manifold pressure and clean air (after the filter), and one output to the wastegate. It switches between these very fast to alter the wastegate and control it's position.

All the time it monitors the boost with a seperate boost sense air line going to the ECU box.

You can...but it's not a great idea... increase the boost by using a bleed valve on the boost sense line going to the ECU. The ECU see's less boost and so increases it.
Or, take the boost soloniod out of the loop. But then you loose all knock detection and other fancy things the ECU does.

As with increasing boost on any car, you need to know whats going on. IE, charge temp, A/F ratio, EGT.

If there is a fault it will limit the boost. And also (depending on the car) if it detects knock it will reduce the boost as well as retard the ignition.

Any more questions, just ask. I don't know the specifics of the other volvos, but thats the basics of how it is on most cars.

If anyone want's i can start a new thread on some guidelines for safe turbo tuning.

[wills]

OK guys, I am your test case. Look at my post under the v70/ v70 R mods section of the forum. I already have the IPD ECU and exhaust, now am installing the MBC (Dawes device). Darren just e-mailed me today, he just moved and forgot to ship it to me..OOOPPPS! However, being the nice guy he is, he is sending it priority Thursday AM. I will install, and report the results. I am only looking to increase low-mid range power...we will see.

These guys in the UK are using these on their T5's & R's. Be careful to remember that in UK octane at the pump is higher than here, so boost levels can be set higher there. Scott @ IPD tells me on my 98 R 14-15 lbs is the max, after that engine management will cut back due to pre detination.

I have detailed instruction saved in MS Word format with photos that are specific to the 5 cyl Volvo engine. If you want a copy e-mailed to you drop me a line at: Wharton1@nvbell.net I will send them to you.

Stay tuned, it only gets better

Wills