Chips and chipping, what it is and what to expect

[linuxman51]

Clearly after the delightful discussion in for sale, theres several people floating around with the wrong idea(s) about chipping, what it is and what it does.
Before we dive into a heated discussion on the matter, lets lay down a basic ground definition of what we're talking about:

Chipping is, in its essence, a remapping of the factory ecu, generally for performance goals. These are usually not user adjustable.

If anyone would like to amend that, or strike it and come up with a better one, go right ahead.

As stated earlier chipping is great... as long as its actual use is within the scope of its intended use, once you get outside that scope, unless *you* are sure of what you're doing, you're probably playing with a great deal more fire than had you simply "hacked around" the stock ecu.

How so? In general, chips employ more agressive tuning than what the factory uses, in the form of leaner air fuel ratios (sometimes, not always), more agressive ignition timing, various limit and threshold changes, most of which you won't find in the documentation (cause that'd be giving the house away for free). The best you can usually hope for are vague references to things you shouldn't do with the chip.

This is where it gets you into trouble when you start going outside the scope. I've gotta dip out and go to work, so from here I'll let someone else pick up the torch.

[suterman]

Now I'm no genius but was intersested in the chips avaliable. I'm sure most peolpe here grasp the very basics

(if im wrong put me right, which I'm sure you will)


Chip = simple ecu upgrade giving mild performance improvement with no trouble or requiring extensive understanding of the subject

Megasquirt = Greater and more flexible upgrade giving more headaches and many hours of pissing around with a laptop.

Personally for now I'm happy with LH2.4 but may go for a chip if I can afford it when the time comes. If in a year or two I have decided that I need 300 hp I may consider megasquirt but I doubt it.

[davidmacq]

http://www.dastek.co.uk/unichip.htm

"When a car comes from the factory, it's ECU is set up with very cautious settings from the manufacturer, designed to take account of a wide variation in engineering tolerances, driving conditions and environmental factors. To fine tune each engine off the production line would take more time money and resources than makes sense for the manufacturer.

This is where the UNICHIP comes in. Using the up-to-the-minute tuning facilities of the UNICHIP we can guarantee to give you 100% of your engine's performance 100% of the time. What's more, using our unique modular design UNICHIP can control just about any performance modification you can think of, including Turbochargers, superchargers, nitrous injection, water injection, propane injection, launch control, full throttle gearchanges and much more. Check out the feature list and compare it to any other engine management upgrade - we're sure you'll be impressed."

"UNICHIP works with the vast majority of the cars on the road today. If you drive a fuel injected car, chances are we can improve its power, torque and economy with the UNICHIP."

Yeah, right. lol

"Check out the feature list below and compare it to any other engine management upgrade - we're sure you'll be impressed.

Variable valve timing adjustment
Rev limit adjustment
Boost limit & level adjustment
Dual maps for use with different fuel grades & types
Water Injection
Nitrous oxide progressive injection
Bigger/supplementary injector handling
Variable induction control
Launch control for turbo vehicles
Full throttle gear changes
Road speed limiter removal
Speedo conversion for imports
Shift light
Idle speed stabilisation"

I guess it does sound more like a piggy back chip (err box) than a reflash of factory chip. hmmm


Ooops, they have a U.S. distributor. hmmm
http://www.unichip.us/


http://www.unichip.us/Images/about_unichip_pic.jpg

http://www.unichip.us/WebPics/chipcrop.jpg

From the U.S. site
"The Unichip is a computer that electronically resides between your car’s ECU and engine, releasing 100 percent of an engine’s untapped power. Sold worldwide for more than a decade, the Unichip is a tested and proven engine performance product used on the street, racetrack, and in off-road applications.


System Components
A Unichip installation consists of a Unichip computer module, a Plug-n-Play (PnP) wiring harness, and a performance map dyno-tuned for a specific vehicle & its components. The Unichip is a solid-state computer measuring the size and weight of a MP3 player, using multiple high-speed processors to control engine tuning & performance.

The Unichip is designed to work in virtually any vehicle – gas or diesel, normally aspirated or forced induction, import or domestic, car, truck, or SUV."

"What is the Unichip?

The Unichip is a fully programmable engine management system which channels over 53,000 optimized fuel and ignition parameters through a vehicle’s standard Engine Control Unit (ECU) to deliver maximum power, optimized drivability, and improved fuel economy. Unichip is a Piggyback ECU, which works in harmony with the standard ECU and is compatible with OBD1 and OBD2 vehicles." UGH

[frpe82]

As stated earlier chipping is great... as long as its actual use is within the scope of its intended use, once you get outside that scope, unless *you* are sure of what you're doing, you're probably playing with a great deal more fire than had you simply "hacked around" the stock ecu.

How so? In general, chips employ more agressive tuning than what the factory uses, in the form of leaner air fuel ratios (sometimes, not always), more agressive ignition timing, various limit and threshold changes, most of which you won't find in the documentation (cause that'd be giving the house away for free). The best you can usually hope for are vague references to things you shouldn't do with the chip.

This is where it gets you into trouble when you start going outside the scope. I've gotta dip out and go to work, so from here I'll let someone else pick up the torch.
Well, well... The chips that I sell (will be selling, actually) are programmed in a more "agressive" way if that is how you would put it.
The original chips are factory programmed to be very "forgiving" to the driver of the car.

When a car comes from the factory, it's ECU is set up with very cautious settings from the manufacturer, designed to take account of a wide variation in engineering tolerances, driving conditions and environmental factors. To fine tune each engine off the production line would take more time money and resources than makes sense for the manufacturer.This is very true, and it is programmed in a way that makes it run even if it is 20F outside and you don´t have a clue what mainetance is and how to perform it. In most cases it will not break.

The chips I sell is removing this safety net. You should have made stage 0 before installing them, always do the service within a specific interval and always listen for new, strange noises and stuff like that. If you have a poorly running car to begin with, the chances are that it will be running even worse and/or finally break down.

The chips are removing this safety net by altering the EZK ignition to be more advanced when not in boost, and retarded when in boost. The map also extends further.
The LH fuel is changed in a way that gives more fuel per unit of air entering the engine (another AFR) under boost and a good allround (fuel saving) map when driving conservative.
The map is also extended and the cuts and thresholds are gone.

The chips can easily be used for destructing an engine if you wanted to.

The chips alone can maybe give 15HP. It is when you start to raise the boost that it does it´s magic. You can do this safely and enjoy a whole lot more power due to correct AFR.
It will also be very nice to other new engine components.

Sure, except from aquiring a calibrated boost gauge for the boost setup, I should recommend everyone that buy my chips to use an AFR-gauge and have a fresh lambda-sond.
That would be the best, because in that way they can really see if their engine is feeling allright or not.

This is said in a friendly tone.
I don´t think that you are saying that these chips are bad in any way.:)

[TerribleOne]

Nothing says lovin like in car tuning without a Laptop! You can say anything you want to about LH but it's still got a major intake restriction and an adjustment limitation. This is a performance forum, not saying a good chip isn't performance but it sure can't beat adjustments every 250 rpm based on load and temp.

[foggyjames]

Chipping is, in its essence, a remapping of the factory ecu, generally for performance goals. These are usually not user adjustable.

As stated earlier chipping is great... as long as its actual use is within the scope of its intended use, once you get outside that scope, unless *you* are sure of what you're doing, you're probably playing with a great deal more fire than had you simply "hacked around" the stock ecu.
I'd say that's chapter and fricken verse on chipping. Very well put.

Assess your goals when deciding whether or not to chip. It's cheap, and it's VERY easy...but...the compromise is that you're tied down to a certain hardware configuration. If you buy a chip for a stock B230FT, you can't fit a 19T and expect it to work correctly (or at least not to its full potential). A guy here with a T5 found that out the hard way...

Would I buy a chip for an LH2.4 B230FT (if I had one, which I probably will within the next year)? If it were mapped (and proven) to work accurately with a ported 15G (or bigger) and an A cam (or something like that), probably yes.

cheers

James

[frpe82]

I am not saying that chipping is in anyway superior in performance to a MS setup.
Absolutely not. They give you great performance for little money and it is easy.
You can´t argue against that.

What I have found out though, is that the chips can take modifications really well.
I can take my own car for example and BDKR has got some good results with my chips and some mods as well.

Read again what I posted earlier. If you are going to do extensive modding, you have to know what you are doing.

[benflynn]

you will learn with megasquirt, alot more then some of you seem to realize. A chip is easy. But if you want fast and easy get a mustang.

[linuxman51]

The unichip looks like a piggy back, sounds like a piggy back, acts like a piggy back...
something along the lines of the SMT-6 that ol Mr Simpson used to bomb around with. (comically enough, lh would adjust anyway and he was forever retuning, but thats another story). Piggy backs are pretty cool if one can get em to work with one's setup, something along the lines of a partially tuneable chip, if you will. The first impression I'd gotten of the unichip was that it resided inside the ecu and was just some circuitry that let you fiddle with the actual on board processor, similar to what the new hondata s300 does (which, is frickin sweet, in a honda kinda way).

I think suterman is right, everyone's got a fundamental grasp on what chips are and do, but I'm a tinkerer, I like to know more than "it simply does ______", I like to know why and how, and that usually leads to how to mess with it :-D

Im curious tho, the chip adds fuel in boost and takes timing out? I'da thought that it at least bumps the in boost timing a bit.

[davidmacq]

I think I read where he said the EZK box timing is too aggressive at higher boost levels.

Looks like Unichip is only for newer OBDI and II cars. :(

[frpe82]

Im curious tho, the chip adds fuel in boost and takes timing out? I'da thought that it at least bumps the in boost timing a bit.Well, what it does is to use as agressive map as possible under boost and still make it at least a little bit safe.
It is more "agressive" than stock of course, it gives more power and is as advanced as it can be on a fairly stock setup. It is within a few degrees of pinging.

I have maybe not been as clear on this subject as I have to be in earlier posts.
It is completely re-mapped compared to stock. As powerful as it can be without pinging.

[benflynn]

Looks like Unichip is only for newer OBDI and II cars. :(

i was under the impression you could get a programmer for all the obdII cars.

As powerful as it can be without pinging.

on what gas, cam...?

i think that the market for lh chips is not large enough to support the amount of r&d that 'should' go into tuning a chip that has to work in cold, hot, humid, dry..different altitudes..

[davidmacq]

i was under the impression you could get a programmer for all the obdII cars

and the timing is set to as powerful as can be without pinging

on what gas, cam...?

Probably, I think the Unichip has a longer feature list than the programmers.

Doubt unichip would run on LH though. Well you'd run into problems like Kenny mentioned Eric ran into, if you did cobble it together for LH.

[benflynn]

will 2.2 tune out the changes like 3.1?

[frpe82]

i was under the impression you could get a programmer for all the obdII cars.

As powerful as it can be without pinging.

on what gas, cam...?

i think that the market for lh chips is not large enough to support the amount of r&d that 'should' go into tuning a chip that has to work in cold, hot, humid, dry..different altitudes..
It wont ping on 93 octane (US) and 14-15psi boost on T-cam.

The chips will work in many environments, but there are always exceptions of course.
The factory chips will of course work better in more extreme environment like the desert or in the rain forest of Brazil. But I guess you guys won´t drive in more extreme environments than I do, so...

It will surely work in Arizona as well as in the northern parts of Sweden in the winter.
It has worked for me in temperatures from -15C to +32C, both very humid as well as dry.

Regarding the altitude, all turbo cars has to be driven carefully when you are reaching altitudes like the ones you find in the Alps. The AMM will take care of the rest, it measures the mass of the air, not the volume.

[stylngle2003]

no...it doesnt have auto-learning like 2.4 does

[linuxman51]

i was under the impression you could get a programmer for all the obdII cars.

As powerful as it can be without pinging.

on what gas, cam...?

i think that the market for lh chips is not large enough to support the amount of r&d that 'should' go into tuning a chip that has to work in cold, hot, humid, dry..different altitudes..

Well here's how this works, having seen the inards of the high dollar engine management systems (that on a basic level function the same as our beloved megasquirt, the devil, as always is in the details). I speak of AEM ems (Which is simply badass, theres just no two ways about that) mainly (since its about the highest dollar one to date that i've had hands on experience with), also a cursory glance at the tuning for the s300 hondata system, and to a degree the hp tuners interface to the zo6's computer...

There isnt so much a single "map" (well theres a base map that everything references from), as much as there is a map of ideal values, and then skew maps based off of the mass of air entering the engine, the knock frequency, the o2 readings, the coolant temp readings, etc.
MS (thankfully) has finally started getting better about this with the introduction of the IAT skews, it got more than a little anoying this spring to have a really bitchin tune at the 70 degree evening temps only to watch it go to **** when the day temps hit 90. With the aem there's partial throttle skews, wide open skews, vtec skews, coolant temp skews, and probably a dozen other values i've yet to find. Hondata is fairly similar in that respect, however it relies on the factory skew values, and I suspect the chips being discussed here do as well, because lets face it:
You can't have one map that works in all weather temp and altitude conditions, and have that map work remotely well. And a claim of 15-20 hp over stock is relatively easy to come by, simply by adjusting air fuels and timing... how do you think we went from 280 to 306 on sam's wagon?
Whats being talked about isnt fundamentally different, its just not hands on adjustable. The upshot is it also doesnt require your car being strapped down to a dyno to be able to measure cause and effect.

[linuxman51]

will 2.2 tune out the changes like 3.1?

No. 2.2 is a delightful system if one is looking to play tricks on the stock management. Its stupid in the sense that it doesnt compare past trends and look at values the engineers deem to be "ideal" and try to shoot for them regardless. It will do some closed loop narrow band adjustment, but soon as the key is off its gone, so if you're looking at doing wierd things by manipulating inputs, 2.2 would be an ideal canidate


The primary goal with the 2.4 "autolearning" feature, I suspect, has nothing to do with the evil ends the folks on tbricks are aiming for, and more to do with maintaining a spec to meet emissions needs with the various grades of fuel scattered about the globe. It also seems to only affect air/fuel, and I still think it has its boundaries regardless of what some members will say :-D

As a neat case study, REX lies somewhere in the middle, It relies heavily on the readings from its o2 sensor and will adjust accordingly, rather rapidly I might add, but it forgets when the key goes off (at least the version in my 90 did, but boy holy **** it would lean itself out on a false 02 reading)

[benflynn]

what kind of equip. is needed to read and reburn the lh chips?

[linuxman51]

what kind of equip. is needed to read and reburn the lh chips?

the info on that is a little vauge, at the very least you'd need a rom burner (~$100)

[olov]

i don't know much about chips, and honestly, my hp numbers are far from impressive :P but what foggy said explains my limited knowledge from what others have said

Would I buy a chip for an LH2.4 B230FT (if I had one, which I probably will within the next year)? If it were mapped (and proven) to work accurately with a ported 15G (or bigger) and an A cam (or something like that), probably yes.

a chip will tune for a specific setup, it might work well for similar setups with minor differences, but once you change quite a few parts, you'll need to help the chip out by swapping other parts. and chips will usually run on the rich side, so to make more power you might need to swap smaller injectors to get closer to stoich(or similar mods to get closer to trick the chip), right? which will in turn need more tunning to get right, right?

so for me, if the chips were under $100, it'd be worth a try, but if they are over $200 you might as well do it the right way with a real ems. i say follow the sweeds, they gave up on lh a while ago(along with other things we here in the states should ditch as well)

jason (if i'm wrong, oh well, i know i don't know much)

[BB-Q]

Right, look at this as maybe a case to review your own against.

I want to go to MS. I knowit is a superior solution. The idea of having an ems that I can specify the settings on fascinates me. But......

My car is my daily driver, my family runabout, the only car in the household and I'm the only one who drives. I cannot presently afford the time to tune the car using MS and to suffer any problems during the long set up phase.

Therefore the ideal solution for me is a chip upgrade. The extended maps allow greater flexibility and LH2.4's learning capability and adaptability give scope for further mods using those extended maps. Remember that LH2.4 can do what MS cannot at the moment- it can adapt to an optimal setting without intervention.

It's cheap, easy and reliable. I need that reliability and to that end I'll take the modified chip as a blessing.

MS will come in time, but not until it becomes a better solution for me.

[foggyjames]

The first impression I'd gotten of the unichip was that it resided inside the ecu and was just some circuitry that let you fiddle with the actual on board processor, similar to what the new hondata s300 does (which, is frickin sweet, in a honda kinda way).
Same here...looks like I led everyone up the garden path there! This unichip was on an S70, then I think Dave put the same unit on his 740, so it kinda makes sense that it's universal in that way. D'oh!

cheers

James

[volvorsport]

the unichip works on motronic systems , which is why it will fit the 740 . it wont fit on an LH car for the reasons kenny said , its trying to adjust all the time

theh unichip is pretty good , can accomodate bigger injectors etc , will support launch control , anti lag etc , its really easy to use , when we did the dyno day at dennis vesseys - we had a little play , so yes its a good system , so a chip than accomodate larger injectors would be prety good , in fact BDKR has that and knows it works , so for a simple plug and play 'with limitations' you cant beat the chip .

My 740 has one , and i wouldnt be able to run the boost i do without it , it pings , ive just got be carefull

[olov]

I want to go to MS. I knowit is a superior solution. The idea of having an ems that I can specify the settings on fascinates me. But......

My car is my daily driver, my family runabout, the only car in the household and I'm the only one who drives. I cannot presently afford the time to tune the car using MS and to suffer any problems during the long set up phase.
from what i've read, ms CAN be easy to setup. i mean now it can take readings off your car and make a fuel map for whatever afr you choose, right?(thought i read that) and timing maps can be found all over this site. me? i can't wait to try it just to show you guys that not only kenny/sam can tune a car in under a tank of gas

jason

[740ATL]

Hey guys,

I have two questions...

one of which I brought up in the for sale thread the other day...

It is my understanding that the AMM voltage is a linear function of engine load (or inflowing air mass).

The factory programs in a 5v cutoff point...essentially they're saying that beyond 5volts worth of air, you're going to blow up your engine and thus we're going to cut off your fuel in order to prevent you from blowing up said engine.

Now... if this fuel cutoff were to be removed, does anyone know if the AMM is actually capable of measuring past 5v ?

http://i.pbase.com/g3/75/540175/2/53012689.ammload.jpg


Now, my 2nd question...

on the topic of chips that are user-programmable...

several manufacturers have ems' that are capable of supporting piggyback computers... Mitsubishi, Honda, etc.

I know it sounds bass-ackwards, but has anyone considered installing the ems from say a honda or mitsu to their volvo and then using their piggyback systems? I mean, an engine is an engine right? The ems doesn't know or care which "brand" of engine it is using and vice versa...

and please, I already know that "MS IS EASIER"... but think of this as an intellectual exercise rather than a "which one is easier" problem.

your thoughts?

Mike

[benflynn]

i will burn my volvo before i insult it with a honda part:grrr: :grrr: :rofl:

[foggyjames]

Heck, people put Saab boost control on their bricks.

cheers

James

[Lord_Athlon]

I thought about using a GM ecu for a while...

[linuxman51]

Hey guys,

I have two questions...

one of which I brought up in the for sale thread the other day...

It is my understanding that the AMM voltage is a linear function of engine load (or inflowing air mass).

The factory programs in a 5v cutoff point...essentially they're saying that beyond 5volts worth of air, you're going to blow up your engine and thus we're going to cut off your fuel in order to prevent you from blowing up said engine.

Now... if this fuel cutoff were to be removed, does anyone know if the AMM is actually capable of measuring past 5v ?


Well it would have to in order to have a fuel cut set at right around 5v, and then be able to remove the cut and have it read higher. i think it can go up to 6 or 7 volts.



Now, my 2nd question...

on the topic of chips that are user-programmable...

several manufacturers have ems' that are capable of supporting piggyback computers... Mitsubishi, Honda, etc.

I know it sounds bass-ackwards, but has anyone considered installing the ems from say a honda or mitsu to their volvo and then using their piggyback systems? I mean, an engine is an engine right? The ems doesn't know or care which "brand" of engine it is using and vice versa...

and please, I already know that "MS IS EASIER"... but think of this as an intellectual exercise rather than a "which one is easier" problem.

your thoughts?

Mike

the issue there is most systems aren't set up with generic-ness in mind like aftermarket ems's. With the honda system, in order to retrofit it, you'd have to figure out how to get a honda distributor on the car, etc.
Same with the mitsu.About the only systems that one could decently easily retrofit would be some of the gm stuff, and some of the ford stuff that relied on crank mounted trigger wheels. you would in effect be digging a deeper hole for yourself vs megasquirt, after having gotten it on the car and running, you would then have to adjust most, if not all of the parameters in the ecu to get it running correctly with your setup.

[kyle242gt]

I think running carefully crafted (except in the case of GM :rofl: ) OEM EMS from other manufacturers is dead silly. Cam profiles, intake and exhaust manifolds, cylinder head, injector size, blah blah blah are all different. Plus there's things like the sensors speaking a different language, this'd require adapters or converters... all this to run a madd tyte piggyback? :barf:

This is not to pooh-pooh the idea of chips; on the contrary, I've been following this discussion for future reference... heck, who knows when I might wind up with a 945 someday. That would probably not get MS... MS is fun, but for a 240HP daily driver, I'd take LH in a heartbeat. (being a reformed Kjetter, I didn't have that option for my 242T)

740ATL's query re AMM reading is foremost in my mind. frpe82's posts suggest he's got that licked, but stop short of directly answering ATL's question... being from Sweded, I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. :badboy:

[740ATL]

:chuckles:, yes, I realize the wiring/adapting calamity that would occur if I were to say try to adapt a honda ems to my redblock, but I always seem to find myself getting into just such calamities... and occasionally enjoy it.... it was just one of those random what-if hypotheticals...

now the AMM situation is something I'm interested in... :)

[frpe82]

740ATL's query re AMM reading is foremost in my mind. frpe82's posts suggest he's got that licked, but stop short of directly answering ATL's question...
Maybe it´s just the language or the fact that I am tired, but what do you mean?
I don´t really understand, did I not answer a question correctly or not at all?

[davidmacq]

I also thought about asking ATL's question. About the other factory EMS's out there. Funny yall mention GM. lol. What about getting some Junkyard ECU's from sweden. Motronic, euro LH whatever works best.

I guess what I'm saying is along the lines of orderiing 2 boxes with the chips in the group buy, could a more tunable factory volvo system be swapped out. Similiar to say going from LH 2.2, to 2.4. Say switch the Boxes, chips, Amm, whatever would be needed for compatibility. Having a reflashable chip or whatever would seem to help, but be a lot easier than salvaging a system from a different model car.

[CHESH740R]

Right I'll throw in my opinions here having had the benefits of Chipped Turbo's for a few years now.

Both my 740Turbos have been chipped, they are both the B230ET with Motronic ECU Systems, in theory its the Most Powerfull 8v Redblock Turbo straight from Volvo. It has the 531 head, No Cats or emmission stuff to slow it down and it should kick out 182bhp at something like 7psi boost.

So when i first aqquired a chip for my 740T Saloon the brand was a "SuperChip" which quoted power levels off 240BHP. So I installed it (very Simple thing to do 5mins at most) and suprise suprise it made bugger all difference.

About a year or so later i joined Tbricks and read how to do the magical thing that is Raising the boost using MBC's and all that jazz, as my previous attempts to turn the wastegate rod were useless so i had given up.

So after about 3 months of umming and arrring i decided to raise the boost using an MBC on my other 740 Turbo which had a BSR Chip fitted capable of 240BHP as well.

So with the boost raised to just below where it pinged (14psi) and wow a considerable difference the car was pretty damm quick, in fact a classic video exsists of the 1st time out with raised boost levels. http://www.chesh.co.uk/moviefiles/cameraman.avi

Now i switched my attention back to my saloon and deciced to raise the boost on this, unhappy with spiking problems on the MBC i decided to use an EBC for boost control.

Yes the car was just as quick as my estate on the road, so i decided to see just how powerfull it was and took it to a Rolling Road. The car made 146BHP at the rear wheels.
I was pretty disapointed, i did have a boost leak through my BOV though which apparantely accounted for the poor figures, but once that was solved i didnt feel any difference in power on the old butt dyno.

I go to the 1/4mile fairly regulary and allthough the cars were quick they have not been able to match so called hacked fuel system Car systems that some of the Tbrickers in the states have run. I think there only mods are brown tops.

The best time i got from the estate was a 15.3Second 1/4mile and from the saloon after a new engine/turbo/V16 Cam/Big Valve 531 Head was a 14.95 Second 1/4 mile.

All rather dissapointing. Do the engines make 240bhp as quoted by both the chip manufactuers, i would have to say not a chance. Its sounds to me much like the debates there are in the uk currently about rica chips actually making 300bhp on t5 engines.

Now i will re dyno my car once more on its chipped Motronic sometime soon to see what the figure is purely out of interest, but having just trial fitted MS&S and got the car running this weekend on it, the future power goals i want will be achieved by a programable ecu.

I could have further hacked my motronic system to squeeze more power out of it, by fitting S60 T5 Injectors, a Larger BMW Air Meter but for the cost of these parts MS beats them.

Motronic Does make hefty power when its 0degrees outside as once the IAT detects this it pulls the timing and the car then seriously hauls ass. Alas its not allways 0degrees outside and 1/4miles arent open when theres ice on the track, But MS&S allows me to program in when to pull the timing when i want and frankly that is a damm good thing from my point of view.

So yes the chips allowed me to run 14psi and some more safely, how much boost my car can run on a standard chip i don't know never tried.


On a related note to the 940 LH2.4 Chips, from my investigation into them,
fitted to a complete stock engine and running it as far as you can go boost wise before it runs out of fuel, will achieve 190bhp. (which is roughly what the Late Volvo 940 Sports with a Turbo+ put out which ran around 14psi)

Running them with a 2.5inch exhaust from the cat back and a sports air filter will net you around 205bhp

and with a full 3 inch system DP included you can make 220bhp.

Now apparantley the swedes have a recipe for 300bhp from the late FT/FK motors and thats 531 Cylinder head, 15g Turbo, Full 3 inch Exhaust including Racing Cat, Larger Injectors, and of course the obligortary Chip. Any other supporting mods that you add be it Better IC, Air Filters will only help.

Anyways thats my ramblings on the subject. If you car wont let you past a certain amount of boost without ping and you want an easy way round get a chip, just don't get upset when the cars don't make the power quoted.

If you plan to go further and you often will, then simply bypass the chip option and start looking at a Programable ECU system.

[frpe82]

On a related note to the 940 LH2.4 Chips, from my investigation into them,
fitted to a complete stock engine and running it as far as you can go boost wise before it runs out of fuel, will achieve 190bhp. (which is roughly what the Late Volvo 940 Sports with a Turbo+ put out).You know, the chips doesn´t only allow you to raise the boost!
It does other things too... The maps are completely re-made for the best performance achieveable with some level of safety (on a stock engine).

And I don´t really like to talk about HP. I hate HP as this is most often only reached at very high rpm´s and low torque levels.

What does the Turbo+ give in terms of torque, and during which rpm´s?
And what does my chip give in terms of torque, and during which rpm´s?
(How does the dyno graphs look on those setups?)
That is a more interesting question. It is torque that makes your butt-dyno react. And I want it to happen early in the powerband and remain as the rpms climb.

[Hank Scorpio]

http://www.dastek.co.uk/unichip.htm

"When a car comes from the factory, it's ECU is set up with very cautious settings from the manufacturer, designed to take account of a wide variation in engineering tolerances, driving conditions and environmental factors. To fine tune each engine off the production line would take more time money and resources than makes sense for the manufacturer.

This is where the UNICHIP comes in. Using the up-to-the-minute tuning facilities of the UNICHIP we can guarantee to give you 100% of your engine's performance 100% of the time. What's more, using our unique modular design UNICHIP can control just about any performance modification you can think of, including Turbochargers, superchargers, nitrous injection, water injection, propane injection, launch control, full throttle gearchanges and much more. Check out the feature list and compare it to any other engine management upgrade - we're sure you'll be impressed."

"UNICHIP works with the vast majority of the cars on the road today. If you drive a fuel injected car, chances are we can improve its power, torque and economy with the UNICHIP."

Yeah, right. lol

"Check out the feature list below and compare it to any other engine management upgrade - we're sure you'll be impressed.

Variable valve timing adjustment
Rev limit adjustment
Boost limit & level adjustment
Dual maps for use with different fuel grades & types
Water Injection
Nitrous oxide progressive injection
Bigger/supplementary injector handling
Variable induction control
Launch control for turbo vehicles
Full throttle gear changes
Road speed limiter removal
Speedo conversion for imports
Shift light
Idle speed stabilisation"

I guess it does sound more like a piggy back chip (err box) than a reflash of factory chip. hmmm


Ooops, they have a U.S. distributor. hmmm
http://www.unichip.us/


http://www.unichip.us/Images/about_unichip_pic.jpg

http://www.unichip.us/WebPics/chipcrop.jpg

From the U.S. site
"The Unichip is a computer that electronically resides between your car’s ECU and engine, releasing 100 percent of an engine’s untapped power. Sold worldwide for more than a decade, the Unichip is a tested and proven engine performance product used on the street, racetrack, and in off-road applications.


System Components
A Unichip installation consists of a Unichip computer module, a Plug-n-Play (PnP) wiring harness, and a performance map dyno-tuned for a specific vehicle & its components. The Unichip is a solid-state computer measuring the size and weight of a MP3 player, using multiple high-speed processors to control engine tuning & performance.

The Unichip is designed to work in virtually any vehicle – gas or diesel, normally aspirated or forced induction, import or domestic, car, truck, or SUV."

"What is the Unichip?

The Unichip is a fully programmable engine management system which channels over 53,000 optimized fuel and ignition parameters through a vehicle’s standard Engine Control Unit (ECU) to deliver maximum power, optimized drivability, and improved fuel economy. Unichip is a Piggyback ECU, which works in harmony with the standard ECU and is compatible with OBD1 and OBD2 vehicles." UGH

Actually Unichip is not an uncommon thing in the FWD world. Works pretty well, but you dont get the software you have to go to a Unichip certified shop. LAME. I've been working with another outfit in sweden for a plug and play piggyback thats similar to Unichip/SMT6 but has some more features. Its nice when you can't easily go EMS (smog laws, OBDII, laziness) but still have alot of flexability.

[CHESH740R]

You know, the chips doesn´t only allow you to raise the boost!
It does other things too... The maps are completely re-made for the best performance achieveable with some level of safety (on a stock engine).

And I don´t really like to talk about HP. I hate HP as this is most often only reached at very high rpm´s and low torque levels.

What does the Turbo+ give in terms of torque, and during which rpm´s?
And what does my chip give in terms of torque, and during which rpm´s?
(How does the dyno graphs look on those setups?)
That is a more interesting question. It is torque that makes your butt-dyno react. And I want it to happen early in the powerband and remain as the rpms climb.

Of course, any decent remapped Chip worth its salt will not only allow for extra fuel for raised boost levels, but also as you say give the torque factor which is what gives your butt dyno the desired results. I learnt that a long time ago and stopped chasing high BHP numbers. When i Dyno'd my car the torque fell of rapidly and the power was not great, i was expecting it somewhere near what was quoted.

Unfortanley you are allways going to get debates on forums when quoting power figures for a product and the end result after install doesnt get those results. Just look at the UK VOC club and look up RICA Chips making 300bhp for examples, the debates are endless.

I think Chips are a great thing, nice upgrades in power, Easy Install for Owners and the price your selling yours for is very very good compared to other Chips i know off. If i owned a LH2.4 car i would buy one myself. I've been perfectly happy with my chips for many years now and at least one car of mine will allways stay chipped as it provides good power for ease of use.

I've just gone to MS&S as my goals are higher than what motronic can offer, i know how to re programm my motronic chips, but its a very long winded task making changes, burning a new chip, trying it out and repeating, MS makes it far easier.

Perhaps you could show some dyno plots before and after a chip and show what other changes were made ie boost settings etc.

Good luck with it, i'm just suprised no one else has offered to sell chips on here before when they've been around for donkey's years.

[frpe82]

I am sorry if that came out wrong in any way...

I did not mean to say that you are wrong or saying that the chips are bad in any way.
I understand that this discussion is not about supressing the chips.

Of course there should be an open discussion about things like this.
My opinion is that the chips give a great (and cheap) performance boost without being too difficult to install or use. Then, if someone tries to upgrade other engine components and so forth, it´s their business. I am only telling them what I have experienced on the cars that use my chips.

Keep up the good work. You really have good arguments.

[foggyjames]

And I don´t really like to talk about HP. I hate HP as this is most often only reached at very high rpm´s and low torque levels.
On a screaming NA Honda VTEC, maybe! I totally agree that discussing specific figures isn't constructive, since the age of the engine and measurement technique make the figures vary so much. That's what's been behind much of the BS on the UK T5 scene....that and hyped claims from manufacturers.

What does the Turbo+ give in terms of torque, and during which rpm´s?
And what does my chip give in terms of torque, and during which rpm´s?
280Nm...not sure at what RPM though.

cheers

James

[benflynn]

You know, the chips doesn´t only allow you to raise the boost!
It does other things too... The maps are completely re-made for the best performance achieveable with some level of safety (on a stock engine).



i would just say "hey, i have chips" and that is it. I don't thimk that you can make some people happy.

[frpe82]

What I really like is how the driveability improves with the chipping, that the torque comes on early in the powerband and things like that.

Peak NM and peak HP doesn´t say much, if anything about an engines characteristics.

The fact that it can maintain a good level of power for a great range of the powerband is what I really want to hear if I were to buy chips like these.

[frpe82]

i would just say "hey, i have chips" and that is it. I don't thimk that you can make some people happy.
What do you actually mean by that? :???:

[benflynn]

i mean they will probably buy you out arguing the whole time my 2c

[foggyjames]

i would just say "hey, i have chips" and that is it.
If you wanted to scam money out of people, sure. Our man here is doing much better than that!

cheers

James

[frpe82]

i mean they will probably buy you out arguing the whole time my 2c
Okie Dokie. I get it.

It must be the language, because I didn´t even understand the sentence when I read it out loud to myself. Sorry.

[NoSi1212ah]

Theres Been So Much To Read Here But What I Was Wondering About The Chips Is What Cam This Is Geared Towards... Would It Be Better If Someone Had A Tp Cam From Ipd Or Would A Stock Cam Be Better? What Turbo Has This Chip Been Burned For? A 15g Did You Say?

Thanks

[frpe82]

If you know what you are doing, it could be made to work with most equipment that is not too radical.
Originally it was intended for stock + raised boost + better air filter + bigger exhaust.

Here´s what I am running at the moment:

945 Turbo Classic -98

2.3L B230FT Mk4 ("B4232FT"), Chipped EZ116K (-207) and chipped LH2.4 (-984).
Mitsubishi TD04H-13C-6 @ 0.9bar/13psi, KG2T-cam.
HR-filter with heatshield.
3" downpipe, metallic core race cat. and chromed cat-back with 4" endpipe.
Pegasus 17" rims, Hankook Ventus 104 ZR/YR 215/45 and 20mm (3/4") pro-spacers :cool: .
AW71L :-P

That cam is very different from stock and it works even better with the chips than the T-cam did.
Specs on the cam here: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showpost.php?p=588908&postcount=26

You can also take a look at BDKR´s specs.

[davidmacq]

Think he's talking about how someone will always point out the negatives. Nothing wrong with that I guess.

Anyone else ever heard of putting in 2 chips? EZK and LH ECU? Well not heard, but have experience. Seems like it might do more than a single chip.

frpe82 your chips only have one mapping? I mean is it a one size fit all chip, or could you acquire chips that better handled more aggressive mods? Like more radical cam, worked head, etc?

[NEA]

Will this work with the crappy California gass. 91 octane?? Thats the best we get.

[benflynn]

Okie Dokie. I get it.

It must be the language, because I didn´t even understand the sentence when I read it out loud to myself. Sorry.

Sorry, I smoked my writing skills.

[frpe82]

Think he's talking about how someone will always point out the negatives. Nothing wrong with that I guess.

Anyone else ever heard of putting in 2 chips? EZK and LH ECU? Well not heard, but have experience. Seems like it might do more than a single chip.

frpe82 your chips only have one mapping? I mean is it a one size fit all chip, or could you acquire chips that better handled more aggressive mods? Like more radical cam, worked head, etc?
I know that it is very rare in the US to get both the EZK and the LH chipped.
I guess it´s only in the EU that you can easily get a chippable EZK (It can be found in the US, you just have to search). And yes, it makes a h**l of a difference with the altered timing. Driveability and power is much better than the stock EZK map.

Regarding your second question, yes it will handle more agressive mods. If you know what you are doing, and take the neccesary precautions. It has worked so far and the AFR´s has been good... No pinging at least.

[frpe82]

Will this work with the crappy California gass. 91 octane?? Thats the best we get.
Yes, but with that gas you are very close to or riding at the limit when boosting 14-15psi. You will simply have to try. It will take 13psi, at least that is what it does here in Sweden on the same octane (95 octane EU ~91 octane US). That is on a stock engine of course.

[frpe82]

Sorry, I smoked my writing skills.
Don´t worry. I read bad when I am tired.

[benflynn]

trade the chips for a boat load of m90s and 531s:badboy:

[foggyjames]

Surely that works the wrong way round? He sends you chips...AND M90s and 531s?! Nice try :-P

cheers

James

[davidmacq]

Um, I don't see a problem. He speaks swedish I suppose? What price can a 531 head be found at that salvage site frpe? How much did you pay for your cam?

[BDKR]

Anyone else ever heard of putting in 2 chips? EZK and LH ECU? Well not heard, but have experience. Seems like it might do more than a single chip.


If you're asking if anyone stateside has experience with these chips, then the answer is yes. I have them. They helped kill my tired AW70! :rofl:

[thelostartof]

If you're asking if anyone stateside has experience with these chips, then the answer is yes. I have them. They helped kill my tired AW70! :rofl:


the fact that its an AW70 helped tho .... i wonder how an AW71 would last ...

[BDKR]

Think he's talking about how someone will always point out the negatives. Nothing wrong with that I guess.

Anyone else ever heard of putting in 2 chips? EZK and LH ECU? Well not heard, but have experience. Seems like it might do more than a single chip.

frpe82 your chips only have one mapping? I mean is it a one size fit all chip, or could you acquire chips that better handled more aggressive mods? Like more radical cam, worked head, etc?

I just read a bit more of this post so here goes....


frpe82 your chips only have one mapping? I mean is it a one size fit all chip, or could you acquire chips that better handled more aggressive mods? Like more radical cam, worked head, etc?


The chips serve to enhance what LH 2.4 has as for a map and "target values" it tries to maintain. While it may have been developed with a T cam in mind (which makes sense as that was the stock cam that came with these ECU's anyways) it will work with anything. A lot of people have placed A, B, K, D, etc.... cams on stock LH boxes and experienced great results. The difference here being that the gains will be greater due to those "target values" being revised.

As for working with non-stock stuff, I'm running them (the chips) with an M cam, Hi Z 42lb hour injectors, and a 3" exhaust (starting from the second turn in the downpipe). At WOT, my AFR guage is telling me that I'm in the groove here. Not too rich and not too lean. This flexibility has nothing to do with the chips. It has everything to do with the adaptive nature of LH 2.4.

Therefore, if you add a larger turbo, ported head, and higher lift cam, 2.4 will adapt to this to this (regardless of the chips even being there). It will also mean that you will reach fuel cut sooner (on non-chipped boxes) but that's a different story.

2.2 OTOH, will need to, at the very least, have the throttle screw and AMM adjusted.

Hear is the kind of thing (in psuedo code) I suspect that LH 2.4 is doing to maintain a target AFR as an example.


float return_pulse_width(amm_input, o2_input, tps_input, target_afr)
{
while(true)
{
if( ( /* some equation involving the above arguments
and a variable pulse_width */) == target_afr)
{ break; }
}
return pulse_width;
}


In other words, the amm_input, o2_input, and tps_input are all fixed (based on what the sensors are saying) and the pulse_width is varied in order to arrive at a target_afr. With chips, the target_afr in the equation is revised to make more power.

Hope that makes sense. Please don't take that code to seriously either.

[BDKR]

the fact that its an AW70 helped tho .... i wonder how an AW71 would last ...

No doubt.

[Canuckvolvo]

In general, chips employ more agressive tuning than what the factory uses, in the form of leaner air fuel ratios (sometimes, not always)

The LH fuel is changed in a way that gives more fuel per unit of air entering the engine (another AFR) under boost and a good allround (fuel saving) map when driving conservative.

Maybe there's some language barrier here, but seems to me Kenny would be right (leaner=less forgiving but more p0wers), but Patrick is the one selling the chips, so....

[BDKR]

One more thing regarding 2.2. I'm willing to bet that more radical cam and free flowing exhaust could very well prompt a need to re-adjust the AMM. Not 100% sure, but it's certainly possible. In my motorbike days, a new exhaust system (including the headers), normally lead to the bike leaning out somewhere in the rev range. We normally ended up re-jetting the carbs.

[foggyjames]

(leaner=less forgiving but more p0wers)
Where I come from, richer (up to a point) = more power.

From what I understand LH2.4 can do a damn good job of auto-correcting when in closed-loop mode, but it can all get a bit scarier at WOT. Sounds like you're doing ok though Terrance....was that measured with a narrowband or wideband? WOT ought to show full rich on a narrowband, right?

cheers

James

[BDKR]

(leaner=less forgiving but more p0wers)

Where I come from, richer (up to a point) = more power.


Without commenting on the above, I think there is a safe range, above wich you are obviously too rich to make power. Below is just downright dangerous.


From what I understand LH2.4 can do a damn good job of auto-correcting when in closed-loop mode, but it can all get a bit scarier at WOT. Sounds like you're doing ok though Terrance....was that measured with a narrowband or wideband? WOT ought to show full rich on a narrowband, right?


I'm using a narrowband afr gauge. At WOT, I am in the .90v to .98v range. Occasionally I get a little higher but not often.

[BB-Q]

Where I come from, richer (up to a point) = more power.

From what I understand LH2.4 can do a damn good job of auto-correcting when in closed-loop mode, but it can all get a bit scarier at WOT. Sounds like you're doing ok though Terrance....was that measured with a narrowband or wideband? WOT ought to show full rich on a narrowband, right?

cheers

James

James, you're forgetting that LH2.4 on the turbo cars does not go open loop as it has no indication of what full throttle is. The TPS only tells the ECU whether the car is at idle or whether the throttle is open. Although the TPS has the switch internally for WOT, it is not connected to the ECU. The O2 sensor constantly observes and reports and LH2.4 adjusts accordingly. This is actually better than the open loop idea, as the combustion is constantly monitored rather than assumed at.
As far as I can see, these chips will broaden LH2.4's horizons, so to speak. The problems we encounter are when the ECU falls off the edge of the map and has nowhere to reference to. Hence the safety blanket of fuel cut via the AMM.

I would still like to know at what voltage exactly these new chips reach their limit or if no limit is set and it is down to the limitations of the AMM?

[foggyjames]

James, you're forgetting that LH2.4 on the turbo cars does not go open loop as it has no indication of what full throttle is. The TPS only tells the ECU whether the car is at idle or whether the throttle is open. Although the TPS has the switch internally for WOT, it is not connected to the ECU. The O2 sensor constantly observes and reports and LH2.4 adjusts accordingly. This is actually better than the open loop idea, as the combustion is constantly monitored rather than assumed at.
No, I'm not forgetting that the turbo LH2.4 cars don't have the WOT switch wired up :-P I'm guessing that's because a turbo car, unlike an NA, doesn't have to be at WOT to give (near) peak manifold pressure.

How is a 14.7:1 'switch' any good once you don't want to monitor 14.7 anyway? It's to maintain the stoic ratio at cruise. As far as I can tell, the moment you put your foot down, the only thing it can possibly tell you is if you're going dangerously lean...which I'd say 14.7 @ WOT @ high RPM would be. My car is running in the low 12s are WOT when at high RPM. My problem is that it's also in the low 12s near idle at WOT... :-(

cheers

James

[Canuckvolvo]

Without commenting on the above, I think there is a safe range, above wich you are obviously too rich to make power. Below is just downright dangerous.

Yes, there is a range. Yes, richer = more power up to a point, but when in boost, the engine is already running rich (ie. <14.7:1 AFR) so running richer isn't going to help.
I'm sure the stock software keeps mixtures on the rich side of this safe range, to be safe of course. I would think the chip would make it slightly less rich (note: I'm not saying make the engine run lean!!!!!). Picking numbers out of the air, I think generally people would say you'll get more power at 12.5:1 than 12:1, and still be "safe" albeit closer to the "limit".

This may all be semantics, but in my original post it still looks like Fredrik and Kenny are saying opposite things.

[foggyjames]

I think generally people would say you'll get more power at 12.5:1 than 12:1, and still be "safe" albeit closer to the "limit".
Yeah, I'd go with that :-D As far as I'm aware, you can't really go 'unsafe' with rich...you'll just wash the bores of oil and accelerate wear. I'm probably doing a whole load of that at the moment.

cheers

James

[BB-Q]

Yeah, I'd go with that :-D As far as I'm aware, you can't really go 'unsafe' with rich...you'll just wash the bores of oil and accelerate wear. I'm probably doing a whole load of that at the moment.

cheers

James

Ask Big CC in Reading. They lent their turbo Hayabusa to a friend or theirs who was (understandably) a bit too scared to wring its 500hp neck. The bore wash from cranking it open at low rpm washed the bores to the extent that it lost a piston- in one day! :omg:

[foggyjames]

Ouch. That's why I'm in a rush to get my WB in and get the jetting dialed in correctly - I've got the exact same problem.

cheers

James

[frpe82]

They helped kill my tired AW70! :rofl:
Oh! So it died... When?

I have an AW71L... I have been to 5500+ with a lot of torque pretty often lately.
I wonder how long that will survive. I have not noticed any change (yet).
I have been driving with chips for almost a year now...

[frpe82]

James, you're forgetting that LH2.4 on the turbo cars does not go open loop as it has no indication of what full throttle is. The TPS only tells the ECU whether the car is at idle or whether the throttle is open. Although the TPS has the switch internally for WOT, it is not connected to the ECU. The O2 sensor constantly observes and reports and LH2.4 adjusts accordingly. This is actually better than the open loop idea, as the combustion is constantly monitored rather than assumed at.
As far as I can see, these chips will broaden LH2.4's horizons, so to speak. The problems we encounter are when the ECU falls off the edge of the map and has nowhere to reference to. Hence the safety blanket of fuel cut via the AMM.
That is absolutely right, though I have to say one thing: It kinda knows when you press the right pedal hard. The AMM reports a certain flow and the LH2.4 looks at flow vs. rpm and interpret this as something similar to "much throttle". That is how I would put it.

I would still like to know at what voltage exactly these new chips reach their limit or if no limit is set and it is down to the limitations of the AMM?
The chips have a limitation of course, and that is how high the A/D-converter in the LH-box goes and the maps can´t go on forever either. But the AMM says stop first.

[frpe82]

Maybe there's some language barrier here, but seems to me Kenny would be right (leaner=less forgiving but more p0wers), but Patrick is the one selling the chips, so....It´s Fredrik by the way. But that´s allright.

What I was trying to say was that the chips give the right mixture where the stock chips doesn´t (In high boost/VE or high rpm´s).

[frpe82]

Um, I don't see a problem. He speaks swedish I suppose? What price can a 531 head be found at that salvage site frpe? How much did you pay for your cam?
Everything from 50-350$ for a 531 depending on how they look. They are quite popular and get sold pretty quick. And I paid 320$ for the cam. It was worth it!

[BDKR]

Oh! So it died... When?


Friday night. No worries. It was on it's way out anyways. I have an AW71 that I'm going to be pulling out of a knackered (wrecked) 765T.

[frpe82]

...i think that the market for lh chips is not large enough to support the amount of r&d that 'should' go into tuning a chip that has to work in cold, hot, humid, dry..different altitudes..
The market for LH chips is very big. At least in europe.
The companies I have dealt with are chipping/selling thousands of chips each year.
They make even more testing on the road as well as on the dyno than volvo ever did.

[Sp3aK]

Well I managed to read all the posts on the first page but, I'm not going to bother with the last 3.

The problem with chips and simple programmers is that they don't take into account that cars have personality. They do what they are told to do regardless. Now that I work at a performance shop where dynotuning is done, I'm starting to understand it a bit more. All cars are different and no one can expect the same results.

I've already dove into megasquirt and there ain't no turning back now(hell maybe I'll even finish it one day :) SHUTUP JASON!). It would be pretty sweet to see the actual results(dyno proven) of a car before a chip and after just to see what it actually does. I think that a chip could be a simple solution for someone that doesn't have the required skills/tools/time to do something as involved as megasquirt, but are these chips going to be that beneficial.......

Just thought I'd throw that out there, dunno how much sense it makes or if I even made a point, oh well.

[linuxman51]

The market for LH chips is very big. At least in europe.
The companies I have dealt with are chipping/selling thousands of chips each year.
They make even more testing on the road as well as on the dyno than volvo ever did.

yep i can see that.

Chips work. period. If they were garbage, no one would use em. Remember we're talking completely remapped here, this isnt the ebay 1k resistor trick guys ;)

[frpe82]

yep i can see that.

Chips work. period. If they were garbage, no one would use em. Remember we're talking completely remapped here, this isnt the ebay 1k resistor trick guys ;)
Did I sense a little bit of sarcasm there or what... ;-)

The chips are an easy and safe solution, and they work very good with multiple setups.
That is my argument for using chips.

You can do a million things more with MS and get even more power.
You can make the car even better than the chips ever can accomplish because you can tune it to your specific setup.
When making use of chips and then say, change to another cam, the chips won´t alter the timing for you.
On MS you can do this and make the car run even better.
But you have to tune it yourself.

[linuxman51]

Did I sense a little bit of sarcasm there or what... ;-)

The chips are an easy and safe solution, and they work very good with multiple setups.
That is my argument for using chips.


No sarcasm.

[frpe82]

No sarcasm.
OK. Cool.

[benflynn]

The market for LH chips is very big. At least in europe.
The companies I have dealt with are chipping/selling thousands of chips each year.
They make even more testing on the road as well as on the dyno than volvo ever did.

that makes all the differance in the world, at least some R&D would make all the differance in the world for my ride, another plus; when it is 30* outside the chips tune will probably still be fine, i wish i could say the same for my tune, i wonder how these chips would do on a f+t

[frpe82]

...i wonder how these chips would do on a f+t
Ask BDKR, he´s got them for his f+t.

[BDKR]

i wonder how these chips would do on a f+t


Car starts fine
Idles fine
Get's good gas mileage
Good AFR readings
No pinging
No Detonation
Spins the tires in first
Killed my tranny. :twisted: :rofl:

How's that?

[benflynn]

Car starts fine
Idles fine
Get's good gas mileage
Good AFR readings
No pinging
No Detonation
Spins the tires in first
Killed my tranny. :twisted: :rofl:

How's that?
SOUNDS PERFECT

[BDKR]

SOUNDS PERFECT

:)