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View Full Version : How to make b230ft push 400hp to the wheels?


1 riktig svensk
12-16-2005, 06:13 PM
Continuation....now, let's keep it clean. The poor guy needs help, and let's give it to him....

My #1 recommendation, if you want to work with the B23/230 engine, try to source a 1993, 94, or 95 B230FT block. Or a 1984 B23FT block.....I've also heard rumors about the 1980 B23 blocks having thicker walls, or something to that effect. A guy I know that competes in VOC (Volvo Original Cup), says that the 1980 blocks are better for some reason.....which if my memory serves me correctly, I think it had something to do with the thickness of the block walls.....I could be wrong.



......next........

740ATL
12-16-2005, 07:55 PM
-

DerSnart
12-16-2005, 08:00 PM
When building this 400hp 8v b230ft, which item out of the following is going to be the rate-determining step?

Drivetrain will come into play, as will suspension. Power has to get to the ground somehow... and volvo parts wont be to happy doing so.

This really isnt that complicated, call Parner and he'll get you what you need or give you direction.

olov
12-16-2005, 08:07 PM
400hp? tons of head work or buy the $1k+ kit from sten like yeah, right did.

and the usual mods, exhaust, ic, injectors, big turbo, ems, cam, etc. boom, 400hp. i mean sam put out over 300 with a k cam and an untouched 530 on a stock squirter block and 25+ psi

red '91 745se
12-16-2005, 08:53 PM
:stupid: 400hp? tons of head work or buy the $1k+ kit from sten like yeah, right did.

and the usual mods, exhaust, ic, injectors, big turbo, ems, cam, etc. boom, 400hp. i mean sam put out over 300 with a k cam and an untouched 530 on a stock squirter block and 25+ psi-


Thanks Guys for understanding, I am really appriciative that he stopped my thread. I was getting tired of the b/s and having to b/s. all i really want is to put what i learn form you guys into my car.

On a side note. The ecu thing was totally fabricated, But if we indeed find a way to hack into it and change some stuff ill let yall know.

I didnt want to come here and start static(but that seems to happen). Hope you guys can forgive me for being an a** and cut me some slack. I really do wanna learn alot of stuff about the car i own.

Thanks again for not banning me, i do wanna be a part of this community.:)

mikep
12-16-2005, 09:49 PM
In before the lock!!!
No boost for you!


If I had it to do: it would be a 2.5, 16v, custom cams (because I like way too much cam) and a ball bearing .63 turbine feeding a really big custom intercooler.
Some nice rods and crank, JE pistons, and a flexplate with multi-disc hub mounted clutch. 8 injectors, nice EMS, 4 crank-triggered ignition coils. Painted Doug Blue on one side, and Spinal Tap Black on the other.

1 riktig svensk
12-16-2005, 11:13 PM
There is a somewhat misconstrued conception of bigger is better, or a head that flows absolute max!!! In some cases bigger is better, (ask my wife) but you also have to consider a lot of other factors; efficiency being one of them. All the bits and pieces have to jive with one another. In proportion to eachother.

My old neighbor is a good example; he had a 1970 Chevelle that he was drag racing. He had a 350 with quite a few mods done to it. However, he had a Demon 750 carb "from some old chevy" on it. Unfortunately it wasn't tuned to his setup....cams, heads, etc. He switched to a Quadrajet 670 and shaved 3 tenths of a second in his 1/4 mile. Smaller carb less fuel, same engine?? But it performed better?? Do you see where I am going with this??

So, getting the biggest turbo, biggest injectors, and so forth will not necessarily get you there. There's a lot of tried and true principles.....don't be shy to ask.

I think if you are shooting for a $5-10K budget, that'll get you far. If I were you I would start some kind of a shopping list and see how much can be done for $5000, versus $10000, and then get cracking.

For an example:

1 - Pistons, Arias - $650
2 - Crower rods - $600
3 - GT40 ballbearing turbo $1000
4 - F.A.S.T. bank to bank EMS $2500
5 - Cobra 8.8" rearend $500
etc.............

benflynn
12-16-2005, 11:16 PM
pistons venolia 300$
bb t3/t4 from japan 146$ shipped
ms 200$
25 spare m46s $?
lc1 200$
100 hrs on dyno 7000$

robiewing
12-16-2005, 11:24 PM
pistons venolia 300$
bb t3/t4 from japan 146$ shipped
ms 200$
25 spare m46s $?
lc1 200$
100 hrs on dyno 7000$
400 Hp B230+4T, priceless

Reminded me of the Master Card commercial.

t3/t4 for $146, WHERE :omg:

benflynn
12-16-2005, 11:31 PM
ebay, ceramic ball bearing/ ceramic turbine, upgrade for the rbd20det. 10k km, shipping from japan takes forever! the t3/t4 i have now i just bought a new wheel/housing/backingplate for 60$ on ebay and put it on one of the t3s i had around..i love ebay

dhallilama
12-16-2005, 11:36 PM
:...

On a side note. The ecu thing was totally fabricated, But if we indeed find a way to hack into it and change some stuff ill let yall know.
....

eh, dont worry about it... we all BS from time to time. i used to have "a 350HP n/a nissan nap-z", although i probably couldnt even have spelled "dyno" way back then, let alone ever had the truck on one...

i wish you the absolute best of luck with the ECU... i've been playing with my LH2.2 for the past 2 weeks. i already fried one. pretty sure i just fried the second one. luckily they're dirt cheap in the u-pull-it yard.
my next step is to take a ballpien hammer to it and go MSnS. to hell with the LH. The swedes dont seem to like 'em much, either. do have one friend in Finland that successfully changed the fuel map on his 2.2... but gave up and is now on stand-alone. But, he was dyno'd at a wee bit under 400hp on the LH2.2 before leaving it behind (and a couple rods, but that's another story).


this is a great forum with more information than you would imagine... forget searching, just start at the beginning and read every thread. i've been doing that for months, now... by far the best information available for Volvos, in english. My wife got tired of translating Swedish forums for me... so i'm dead happy that turbobricks is here....

DerSnart
12-16-2005, 11:59 PM
t3/t4 for $146, WHERE :omg:

No such thing. They are old skyline T3's with nissan exhaust housing/wheel (similar to a t25/8) on ebay, most with the ceramic wheel. They also probably need a rebuild before use. The dude just lists them as a T3/T4.

robiewing
12-16-2005, 11:59 PM
ebay, ceramic ball bearing/ ceramic turbine, upgrade for the rbd20det. 10k km, shipping from japan takes forever! the t3/t4 i have now i just bought a new wheel/housing/backingplate for 60$ on ebay and put it on one of the t3s i had around..i love ebay

What is involved in converting a T3 to a t3/t4. Just the stuff you bought?
Any porting of the housings??

Stereophile33
12-17-2005, 01:13 AM
b21ft with squirters
custom 92mm stroker crank $800
2.5 liters of 1.7:1 rod ratio goodness
.028 quish
405 head
kg2t cam
gt32 twin scroll BB turbo
Pulse paired equal length header
B21f manifold.
ROD Richmond 6 speed.

And one freaking big smile

linuxman51
12-17-2005, 01:32 AM
late model 230 (there's gotta be a reason the swedes favor it) or a b21. Thicker walls.
Stock crank
better rods
stock pistons.
Some head work. even an 8v will suffice for this
decent tuning.

benflynn
12-17-2005, 10:23 AM
there are more than one type of nissan/garrett skyline turbo http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=8009988410&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT

i will have a **** fit if it needs a rebuild
i did some research from some of the skyline boys before i paid for it, they say it is a t3/t4 and will only make 15psi anything more and the ceramic wheel will come apart, not good for 400, but 300 should be no prob

benflynn
12-17-2005, 10:26 AM
What is involved in converting a T3 to a t3/t4. Just the stuff you bought?
Any porting of the housings??

i used a t4 cmpressor housing, thrust bearing , wheel and backing plate and bolted that to a t3 i had around. hardest thing was finding a wrench for the shaft

John V, outside agitator
12-17-2005, 01:47 PM
[QUOTE=red '91 745se]:stupid: -


. I was getting tired of the b/s and having to b/s. all i really want is to put what i learn form you guys into my car.



I didnt want to come here and start static(but that seems to happen). Hope you guys can forgive me for being an a** and cut me some slack. I really do wanna learn alot of stuff about the car i own.
QUOTE]

Then the first thing to learn is simple basic honesty as an instant and constant reflex, and your answer above where you say "and HAVING to BS" clearly indicates that you feel compelled , or forced somehow to BS.

That's a BS excuse in itself and you'll never learn as long as BS is so ingrained in your character that YOU can't control it.

If YOU can't stop yourself from BSing, the who do you suggest can??

The fawkin Flying Spaghetti Monster??
http://goodshow.net/archives/noodledoodle_bg3b.jpg

Maybe the moderators could institute a rigid policy to put folks age and location next to their name so when we see its a 17-18 year old kid yakking we can just blow it off entirely.

tequila_gundam_no_chaser
12-17-2005, 02:02 PM
well ported 531.
Late b230
Header
eagle rods
Walbo pump
large injectors
MS&S with wideband
kaplenski torque rods
700r4 trans
NPR IC
t3/t4 60 trim
3" turbo to tail exhaust, all v-banded

DerSnart
12-17-2005, 02:17 PM
there are more than one type of nissan/garrett skyline turbo http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=8009988410&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT

i will have a **** fit if it needs a rebuild
i did some research from some of the skyline boys before i paid for it, they say it is a t3/t4 and will only make 15psi anything more and the ceramic wheel will come apart, not good for 400, but 300 should be no prob

The skyline guys all ditch the stock turbo immediatley... so what makes you think its going to be so great?

Its not a t3/t4... if you bought one, you'll see that when it arrives. It will do much more than 15psi, but as you mentioned the wheel wont like it. It will likley need a rebuild, think about it.... a ten year old turbo from a japanese hot rod?!? They'll sell you some BS like "it was sitting on a shelf for ten years, it was hardly used!" or "It has this HKS actuator and will make 300hp as 15 psi!" Could you make a hybrid from one of these turbos? Possibly.... but I doubt it would be worth the effort. I have a rb25 turbo on my desk, if you would like the wheel measurments I also have a digital calipers in my desk drawer.... Tis no T4 compressor of any sort, hell the turbine wheel isnt even really in T3 territory either; its more of a t25/t3. Not to burst your bubble or anything, but it is what it is. Out of the nissan family of weird ass turbos, the VG30det has the best of the best... and its really only a 60 trim t3 compressor with the same tiny turbine housing.

On the bright side, it is a t3 flange.. and would make a great upgrade for a dd or a lil more than stock.

acbarnett
12-17-2005, 02:36 PM
I want one of those two valve evo heads...

although my attitudes with heads is to max out everything until you get to the point that the head is the restriction, then it will make it much easier to properly tune the engine with a new head...

Static_AfterGLow
12-17-2005, 04:54 PM
Is it really possibly to get 400hp from b230f motor???????

red '91 745se
12-17-2005, 05:23 PM
[quote=red '91 745se]:stupid: -


. I was getting tired of the b/s and having to b/s. all i really want is to put what i learn form you guys into my car.



I didnt want to come here and start static(but that seems to happen). Hope you guys can forgive me for being an a** and cut me some slack. I really do wanna learn alot of stuff about the car i own.
QUOTE]

Then the first thing to learn is simple basic honesty as an instant and constant reflex, and your answer above where you say "and HAVING to BS" clearly indicates that you feel compelled , or forced somehow to BS.

That's a BS excuse in itself and you'll never learn as long as BS is so ingrained in your character that YOU can't control it.

If YOU can't stop yourself from BSing, the who do you suggest can??

The fawkin Flying Spaghetti Monster??
http://goodshow.net/archives/noodledoodle_bg3b.jpg

Maybe the moderators could institute a rigid policy to put folks age and location next to their name so when we see its a 17-18 year old kid yakking we can just blow it off entirely.


Totally understandable, btw im not 17-18 im 23. bsin is over!

MikeHardy
12-17-2005, 05:31 PM
i do think it's time to get off the newb's back now and lets get on with performance.

740Weapon
12-17-2005, 05:58 PM
Is it really possibly to get 400hp from b230f motor???????

some people have gotten over 700 hp in sweeden.

olov
12-17-2005, 10:05 PM
Is it really possibly to get 400hp from b230f motor???????
stock? i think so with enough head work so you don't have to boost it to the limit, and enough fuel/timing of course. but better rods like kenny said wouldn't hurt

benflynn
12-17-2005, 11:18 PM
and would make a great upgrade for a dd or a lil more than stock.

you might be right, i think you are thinking about the stock rb20det a t28 semi hybrid, kind of a t25/t3, they have a 5 bolt downpipe flange, this one has a 6 bolt dp flange and is sold as an upgrade from the t28ish stock unit, i did buy it for $146 shipped so i will see when it gets here, i would like a new turbine wheel and would rebuild it then but if it has a bb center housing i will be happy, and it might need a rebuild but i don't think it is a sure thing

DerSnart
12-17-2005, 11:55 PM
you might be right, i think you are thinking about the stock rb20det a t28 semi hybrid, kind of a t25/t3, they have a 5 bolt downpipe flange, this one has a 6 bolt dp flange and is sold as an upgrade from the t28ish stock unit, i did buy it for $146 shipped so i will see when it gets here, i would like a new turbine wheel and would rebuild it then but if it has a bb center housing i will be happy, and it might need a rebuild but i don't think it is a sure thing

Find a turbo shop in your area, they can fit the t28 turbine wheel, and a 60 trim comp wheel in the stock nissan housings. The one on my desk is from a RB25 and the thing is kinda tiny next to a t3/t4, but its near 15g territiory.

And for 146 shipped from japan for a rebuildable bb center section... thats a good deal!

benflynn
12-18-2005, 12:17 AM
i built the t3/t4 i have now, i would prob. get everything balanced and rebuild it on the coffe table, i am going to run it first and see how it spools on the f+t

benflynn
12-18-2005, 12:20 AM
well ported 531.
Late b230
Header
eagle rods
Walbo pump
large injectors
MS&S with wideband
kaplenski torque rods
700r4 trans
NPR IC
t3/t4 60 trim
3" turbo to tail exhaust, all v-banded

i am not far off that list

shaved240
12-18-2005, 02:56 AM
ok once again....

b21ft/b23ft (rebuilt)
531/405 head (ported)
90+ manifold / proturbo header
t3/t4 or holset hx35
getrag 265
3" exhaust
megasquirt
lsd
and most importantly...good tuning.

or

straight six (2.9L)
stock head
mill pistons for lower compression
automatic tranny (stronger than m90)
holset hx35
alchy injection
megasquirt

or if money is not an option

penta stroker crank, stroked to 3.0L
ported 16valve head
sten rods and pistons
aw70 tranny for strength
gt40 series turbo
1031 w/ locker
custom intake manifold
equal length header
bar and plate style intercooler

DerSnart
12-18-2005, 03:58 AM
1031 w/ locker


lol... dont ever throw on slicks if thats the plan.

red '91 745se
12-19-2005, 11:09 PM
ok once again....





straight six (2.9L)
stock head
mill pistons for lower compression
automatic tranny (stronger than m90)
holset hx35
alchy injection
megasquirt

or if money is not an option

penta stroker crank, stroked to 3.0L
ported 16valve head
sten rods and pistons
aw70 tranny for strength
gt40 series turbo
1031 w/ locker
custom intake manifold
equal length header
bar and plate style intercooler


How much better does the 16v flow over the i6 2.9? isnt that like an overrated truck engine?(thats what my dad has always said when i asked him about it when i was younger) Is it twin turboable? has it been done? what kinda power can be made outta the 2.9? more curious questions!

stylngle2003
12-20-2005, 01:26 AM
How much better does the 16v flow over the i6 2.9? isnt that like an overrated truck engine?(thats what my dad has always said when i asked him about it when i was younger) Is it twin turboable? has it been done? what kinda power can be made outta the 2.9? more curious questions!

the 16V has 8 fewer valves and .6 fewer liters to play with, so if you're looking for max power/tq, the whiteblock B6304 is the way to go. is it twin turbo-able? god yes...ever heard of a T6? that's a b6304 reduced to 2.8L with two small snails on the side. Yea, right has a TT 6cyl in his 960, ACbarnett is working on a seemingly neverending project to Twin his 6cyl, and The Poi is slapping a big ole turbo on his paddleshifted 960 as well...search or ask them

red '91 745se
12-20-2005, 01:34 AM
the 16V has 8 fewer valves and .6 fewer liters to play with, so if you're looking for max power/tq, the whiteblock B6304 is the way to go. is it twin turbo-able? god yes...ever heard of a T6? that's a b6304 reduced to 2.8L with two small snails on the side. Yea, right has a TT 6cyl in his 960, ACbarnett is working on a seemingly neverending project to Twin his 6cyl, and The Poi is slapping a big ole turbo on his paddleshifted 960 as well...search or ask them


Saw pois thats just crazy, i didnt think he would be able to close his hood! poi is just nutts!!!! i wish i had his brain!! so the 2.9 is a dohc? dont forget im a neub to all of this incl. volvo engines and their setups!

stylngle2003
12-20-2005, 03:18 AM
all volvo car engines produced for cars in the states after 1995 are DOHC

benflynn
12-31-2005, 10:42 AM
Find a turbo shop in your area, they can fit the t28 turbine wheel, and a 60 trim comp wheel in the stock nissan housings. The one on my desk is from a RB25 and the thing is kinda tiny next to a t3/t4, but its near 15g territiory.

And for 146 shipped from japan for a rebuildable bb center section... thats a good deal!

came in thu, i just got the housing off, the compressor wheel is bigger than a t3, i will go get a dial caliper and get some real measurements. It has no play and is perfectly clean, looks as if it has never been used, the exhaust housing has a hole for an egt in it