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Stereophile33
03-28-2006, 10:33 AM
I need to source a page in a the engine reconditioning green manual for 240 turbo's today.

has anyone ever scanned them in and I could send a picture of one?

Peace,
Jonathan

stealthfti
03-28-2006, 11:20 AM
Jonathan, I put up some pics of the two pages you need in a new gallery:

www.pbase.com/stealthfti/miscellany2

Not the finest quality pics; but you can get the specs for the MS.

Perhaps they will believe the book.

TF

BenW
03-28-2006, 11:52 AM
not to play bad guy. but i one time had Bentley Publishing contact me DIRECTly when i asked for a pagescan. They claimed it was infringement upon the copyright of a manual. I sided with them and spent the money on my own copy of the book in question. You might consider doing the same.

blarf
03-28-2006, 12:09 PM
not to play bad guy. but i one time had Bentley Publishing contact me DIRECTly when i asked for a pagescan. They claimed it was infringement upon the copyright of a manual. I sided with them and spent the money on my own copy of the book in question. You might consider doing the same.

Fair use. :e-shrug:

BenW
03-28-2006, 12:47 PM
nevermind

stealthfti
03-28-2006, 01:22 PM
not to play bad guy. but i one time had Bentley Publishing contact me DIRECTly when i asked for a pagescan. They claimed it was infringement upon the copyright of a manual. I sided with them and spent the money on my own copy of the book in question. You might consider doing the same.

You are correct: it is technically an infringement. The "fair use" is defined and limited; and often abused.

I did not know that Jonathan did not have a copy of the recon green manual. I put up the pics of the two pages because he was in a bind; AND in process of acquiring copies of the manuals from volvotechinfo.com. I thought that they had arrived.

I have been, and still am, a strong and vocal advocate for having the factory service manuals when doing engine work, and for everything else as well.

I will take down the two pics [and a third one already posted] after a time....to avoid abuse of the 'fair use' statutes.

Your point is well intentioned; and well taken by myself. If people around here were to invest in the factory manuals for themselves, they would save themselves considerable grief and aggravation. I've said that priorly; and am repeating that now.

I would not, and do not, put up pics of manuals or diagrams for anyone that is trying to be a cheapskate or thief.

Thank you for the reminder.

Thomas Fritz
...the stealth FTi

Stereophile33
03-28-2006, 01:34 PM
my apologies if this stepped on peoples toes.

I had sent out my green manual to an engine builder and had ordered another one, and found the machine shop to be screwing over my head.....so I was in a bind.

Thanks Thomas.

Jonathan

BenW
03-28-2006, 01:38 PM
Okay, that's actually different (both of you own the material, i was unaware of that). But i appreciate you guys understanding my post.

Word, good luck on the engine fix.

Renny_D
03-28-2006, 02:24 PM
I have the basic chiltens manual and in looking at the volvo service manuals one could easily spend a grand or more so... with the basic Chiltens which of the service manuals available would you folks recomend as mandatory to have. I would guess engine ones and tranny ones and maybe the specs one? What others and is there a reasonably priced assemblage of all of them something like a Chiltens/hayes manual on steroids?

Thanks
Renny

End. threadjack

blarf
03-28-2006, 04:09 PM
You are correct: it is technically an infringement. The "fair use" is defined and limited; and often abused.

Fair use is a pretty vague term with a handful of specific examples (such as in a review). For instance, Amazon and Google make select pages from many books available online. It would be quite hard, IMO, to say that this doesn't fall under fair use. However, the publishers are not happy with this (a bit too short sighted IMO). What's key to their legal justification is that they are not making the whole book available to any one person.

The guidelines for evaluating whether or not something falls under fair use are as follows (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode17/usc_sec_17_00000107----000-.html):

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

#1 - you're not making a profit and the intent is educational
#2 - it's non-fiction work, and it's of cars that Volvo hasn't made for 10+ years (depending on the model)
#3 - see again, you only posted three pages
#4 - Volvo hasn't made these cars for 10+ years, and for the -93 stuff, they don't offer electronic versions

See also the good faith fair use defense (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode17/usc_sec_17_00000504----000-.html), which may apply if you could legally define yourself as a public broadcasting organization.

I did not know that Jonathan did not have a copy of the recon green manual.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I will take down the two pics [and a third one already posted] after a time....to avoid abuse of the 'fair use' statutes.

Posting three pages is hardly copyright infringement.

I would not, and do not, put up pics of manuals or diagrams for anyone that is trying to be a cheapskate or thief.

Have you priced the manuals recently? Hell, what about manuals for companies that don't sell cars in the US anymore (Peugeot, for instance) and thus English language manuals aren't readily available?

ADent
03-28-2006, 04:35 PM
not to play bad guy. but i one time had Bentley Publishing contact me DIRECTly when i asked for a pagescan.

I don't see the Green Books on Bentley's site. Do they publish them in conjuction with Volvo?

The Volvo manuals available here: http://www.volvotechinfo.com/

stealthfti
03-28-2006, 11:53 PM
blarf,
Thank you for clearing that up, and straightening me out on that; and for the effort to explain it. I appreciate that.

Your explanation has corrected my erroneous understanding. I have a lot more leeway than I thought I did. Cool.

Yes, I am very aware of the prices they go for from volvotechinfo. I have been buying green manuals for about 20 years. I used to have to go to places like Carlisle to find bargains. Now the internet helps. Ebay is one place that I do look for certain ones to round out my sets. I have found some good deals there. And I stiil buy through volvotechinfo.com. The green manuals were never cheap. But they have almost always been worth the price.

Anyway, thanks again for the very helpful explanation.

TF

swedefiend
03-29-2006, 12:09 AM
I don't see the Green Books on Bentley's site. Do they publish them in conjuction with Volvo?

The Volvo manuals available here: http://www.volvotechinfo.com/

The Bentley 240 manual is pretty much an accumulation of the Green Books pertaining to these cars. It is not wholly inclusive, but has almost all of the necessary information.

Things like the spark maps and diagnostic routines for ignition difficulties are one thing that comes to mind. The green books have ignition maps for all cars produced by Volvo (maybe not all in the same place) whereas I believe the Bentley has none.

---

Re: fair use

I look at it like this.

Someone like me who intends to spend the rest of my natural life working on Volvos has no excuse for obtaining information in any manner other than directly from an authorized reseller / distributor. Now, if I am broken down in the middle of backwoods Alabama somewhere one night and I manage to get here on my phone, I am gonna be pretty miffed if someone doesn't cough up the wiring diagram I need (I own the Bentley manual x2 FWIW).

If someone is reselling the material for profit, then it's wrong. If someone like me posts pics of spark maps - I say it's not wrong. That information already belonged to you. Albeit in a transparent way. Now, if I tried to sell versions of my spark map. That would be wrong - because it is based on prior work obtained by me without consent of the publisher. Or, if I tired to make money from you by helping you diagnose a problem using the information that was obtained without consent, then that would be wrong.

I don't want to go to far on this. I just think people get a little bent out of shape over stuff like this. It kills community spirit for one thing and discourages those with less money from participating in the festivities (which BTW produces revenue through more running vehicles - which may eventually be reinvested in newer models, perhaps even from a dealership).

Anyway, that's all. I am off my soap box now...

fivealive
03-29-2006, 10:35 AM
blarf's got a lot of good scans, and I have some for early 80's 240's on my website, link in my signature

i got my greenbooks in the trunk of my car when i bought it - full set for 1981. I was lucky. If I bought all of them now, it would cost me more than both of my 240's combined. Not everyone in the world has enough disposable income to spend on such luxuries. That's why I drive a 25 year old car - I can't really afford anything nicer. Otherwise, I would be driving an 850R or something.

BenW
03-29-2006, 10:52 AM
man look what i stirred up.

Fred760DC
03-29-2006, 12:22 PM
Volvo guys. Dey like precision.