only firing on 2 cyl. MS1 v3pcb, b230f+t

[apd]

I also posted this at the msefi forums, but I am looking for help anywhere

volvo b230f, ms1 v3pcb, 24s code, MT 2.25, vb 921 dumb ign. driver

The car runs! :D

But, when it is running, either 1 and 4 have spark, or 2 and 3 (opposite on dizzy), I cannot get all 4 cyl. to spark.

I have tried 2 coils, one new, and the same problem persists (both volvo/bosch)


I have the dwell settings at :
crank 6ms
running 4ms (ajusting this from 3.3-5 doesn't affect the lack of spark.

The car will idle at 1000rpm or so, and will run to about 1600 rpm before backfire/miss/det.

An help?

Thanks

Alex

[The Aspirator]

Hummmm, you getting the RPM from a hall effect dizzy? Maybe that's not working right, but then I guess your rpm would be screwed up too. I've never played with dwell settings so I don't know what to tell you there. Ugh man, I wish I could help you more but I just have no idea.

[swedefiend]

Are you sure it is spark cutout?

If you don't have the injection settings right, you will only pulse the injectors on alternating strokes.

[apd]

When the engine is running, I can slowly pull the plug wire out of the dizzy, 2 will have spark, 2 will not.

THe weird part is that it sometimes changes when I shut the car off and restart it. The only reson I found it (thought it was fuel pressure), was that the timing light would only work about half the time, started clipping the light to different wires to see if it was the light or my wires, and sometimes it would work off plug wire one or four, other times only off 2 and 3.

Was a b**** to time, thanks aspirator, got the computer - dizzy - to read the same.

Anyone have any help?


alex

[NeoSpeed740ti]

The firing order on the b230 is 1342 so it makes sense that you are getting a spark only on th two cylinders that are 180 deg apart (at the cam, 360 deg at the crank). Are you sure you don't have one of your settings f-ed up, like the number of cylinders, If you tell MS you have a 2 cylinder it would run exactly as you described, the switching between cylinder sets (1-4, or 2-3) being caused because MS ignores the first couple triggers for timing purposes, after several triggers MS starts firing the coil and whatever cylinder the rotor was pointing at gets the spark MS doesn't actually 'know' what cylinder its firing, thats why you need a crank sensor for a COP or wasted spark setup. Hope this helps.

[apd]

Constants 1 page
http://demkovich.com/images/constants.JPG
Spark settings

http://demkovich.com/images/sparksettings.JPG


and the standard code outputs page

http://demkovich.com/images/codeoutputs.JPG

Thanks guys

alex

[The Aspirator]

On LED 18 function, get rid of the IRQ trigger and switch it to warmup. I'm not sure why I think that's important, but for some reason I just do. I don't even know what the IRQ trigger does, but those settings are very picky, if two of them have anything to do with spark then it screws everything up.

Eh it's worth a shot!

[apd]

So I switched the "injections per engine cycle" to 4 and now I have spark on all four cyl.
For some reason the spark is directly tied to the "injections per engine cycle", above in this thread, I had injections per engine cycle set to two, the distributor was firing twice, 180 degrees apart.

I rewired pin 36 (cut it just off the MS connector), and ran 14g through the drivers door to the coil (thinking that it was interference from the injector wires), didn't chang anything.

On the board, for the spark I have :

The top of R26 (near side to DB9 connector) to 330Ohm, 1W resistor to IGBT in
AND
IGBT out to IGN (pin 36)

For the hall sensor (dizzy) I have 1K pullup resistor from S12 to tachselect, jumper from tachselect to OPTOIN, and OPTOout to Tsel, and XG1 to XG2.

The board has r43 jumpered (resistor is not there), R57 is not installed, and C12 and C30 are not installed.

Can someone help, I loose my garage space this weekend


__________________________________________________ _________

:???::-(The reason I'm still concerned is that in neutral it will bog at 90kpa and about 2500 rpm, but if the turbo spools the engine flys to the Rev limit.

When driving, the car severly boggs, only allowing 1st and second to about 1500 rpm.

I Don't think it's useing the spark map, thus not having the advance in the mid range just before the turbo spools.

I'm going to run and borrow a timing light and see if I'm correct.

[The Aspirator]

Yes, get a timing light but it sounds like you're REALLY close man! Do you still have the ignition "fixed" at like 10*? Have you verified your trigger angle since fixing the spark issue? Got a wideband on there? Sounds like it might be waaaaaay too rich in that area.

[apd]

O2 sensor: I switched to a 90+ mani with a 64/48 ( I think a t25 off a 91 940), lost the sensor bung, I have access to a lift and a welder, but I need the car to run well enough to get it the 5-6 miles across town.

Currnetly only have a narrow band, missed the group buy (had to replace the turbo instead), going to order one next week.

I used the method you gave (Aspirator), and got the ignition fixed, and matching in megatune.

Still can't figure out why the injections per cycle contols the spark:???:

Thanks for all the help guys

Alex

P.S. Is there someone in the Chicago area with MS experience?

[JohnLane]

Ahhh the smoke and mirrors that goes along with injection programming......
This we refer to as a 'Learning curve.' If you are very careful you will not blow it up before you get to the top of the curve......
Many times it is best to not question WHY the engineers did what they did but to just make the mental note that tells you 'It is what it is' and be ready for it in the future......
Perhaps somewhere in 'Internetland' you could find a FAQ for MS that could help?
If so a 'Sticky link' seems in order for the EMS page here on Turbobricks.

Have fun with it.

John Lane

[apd]

I have printed every page I can find (full 3" binder) on ms, MSnS-E, Linuxman's posts, the tuning guides, I read the new posts on msefi.com daily, and turbobricks daily.

I'm pretty good at the learning curve. Got Linux running in 8 weeks in 1995 on a P2 w/ 128 meg RAM (thats pre v1 kernel).

Just trying to reduce the slope of the learning curve.


And if anyone has seen spark directly tied to "number of injections per cycle" I would LOVE the link


ALEX

[swedefiend]

1 cycle = four injection events (because 4 pistons, one crank)

1 cycle + two injection events = firing on two cylinders b/c ms doesn't know the other two are there...

[The Aspirator]

Along with what Greg said, I'm running 2 injections per cycle like you are, but I am running alternating injector staging, you are running simultaneous. I'm guess simultaneous requires 4 injections per cycle. That answer your question? Is it driving well yet??

[apd]

So I tried to run 2 injections, alternating, still only get spark on two cyl.

Very weird

MUCH WORSE, the MS will not allow me to invert the spark output.

This seems to be the reason the car is running like S#@t, I took a timing light in one hand, and the throttle in the other and the car retards timing instead of advancing, with the invert spark output to both yes or no.

I did Shut off power to the MS box when I changed it.

I'm running 24s13 and MT 2.25

ANY IDEAS?

alex

I've lost my garage space, so I'm now tuning the car on a 25* driveway, sucks to test drive, couldn't get the car back up the diveway (it's sitting in the road of my parents gated community :rofl::rofl::rofl: ). I am not willing to take it home (gravel diveway, no more garage space, LIve in GARY)