Getrag adapter necessary modifications (1st run plates)

OK so we put the getrag into Adam's GT tonight. To do this conversion you need to buy :
4-12 x 1.75 x 40mm bolts, higher grade desirable (on the first run of adapter plates the thread is 12x1.5)
4-washers for these bolts
1-adapter plate from me
1-BMW pilot bearing (I need to figure this one out as I turned a brass bushing to use ths stock volvo one)
1-BMW TO bearing
1-Getrag 5 speed with detatchable bellhousing, all these trannis will mount up the same however ratios may vary. These trannis should be in any BMW with a 5 speed from 1979-1981, 1982 528e's, 1985 5 series cars, 1987-1991 M3's. I am not sure of all the ratios available but I know that the M3 ones are CR units.
1-Stock Volvo M46 bellhousing
1-Front section of BMW driveshaft
4-Stock studs from BMW bellhousing along with washers, shorten the studs 1/4" or get new studs that are longer on one side. (on first run of plates use 12.1.5 studs you purchase.)
1-Clutch disc sprung puck style is desirable either (8.5")215mm available readily for ~150 or get a (9")228 disc for the stepped flywheel.

Most of the parts above you can get off the BMW you pull the tranni out of or from me.

Steps:
Step one: Take M46 bellhousing and a 3" hole saw and a drill press, the hole saw should center VERY well in the bacl of the bellhousing, put the drill on LOW speed and apply liberal cutting oil, drill out the center.
Step two: Take 12mm drill bit (or remeasure bolts with caliper and get a bit so that they will BARELY fit through) use a drill press and drill all 4 holes out so that the bolt will fit through.
Step Three: Take the Clutch fork and draw a line down the center, measure 23mm from each side of the line and scratch another line, then take and cut 2 strips out of 1/8" steel with straight edges ~1/4"-3/8" wide. Cut out the two pegs in the Fork, the easiest way to do this I found was to grind off the outside then knock them in towards the center with a punch. Now take one of your strips and weld it so that the straight edge is along the line you scratched 23mm from the center on the side that has rounded edges. Then take your BMW TO bearing, put the flat side against the piece you just welded in (after proper cooling time and perhaps cleaning up the welds) take the other piece and put it into the other side of the TO bearing this should make it lie right on the line and remove the TO bearing and weld in the piece of metal. Clean up this piece and intall it into the Bellhousing.
Step Four: Intall new clutch plate, pilot bearing, and properly torque Pressure plate. Clean off the bellhousing so that any metal shavings are gone. Attach the bellhousing to the adapter plate (using the purchased bolts) so that the bottom of the bellhousing lines up with the small end of the hole in the adapter plate. Torque to 75 ft/lbs (or Gootentite) don't forget the loctite. Now install the studs short end into the adapter plate with loctite and tighten them in.
Step Five: Remove the shifter platform off the rear of the tranni and cut 1/2" out of it preferable right behind the front of it. Be careful to cut carefully. Weld these two pieces back together. Take off the shifter rod and cut 1/2" out of it also and drill a hole through each side about 1/2" from the cut end, put a piece of appropriately sized rod inside it (or a part of a bolt) weld it in the holes you drilled and also at the seam being careful to maintain the correct orientation of the two attaching points which is parallel. Also you may find it necessary to remove the rear part of the shifter platform to fit it into the tranni tunnel. (these measurements are all for use on a 240 740 measurements are unknown but can be quickly determined.
Step Six: Install bellhousing with TO bearing on clutch fork, it may be neccessary to use string or wire to get it to stay in place. Then slide the transmission into place, it may be helpful to leave it in gear to make rotating the input shaft to align splines possible.
Step Seven: Attach clutch cable and adjust properly it will require a bit of adjustment to account for the different TO bearing and pieces of plate sandwiched in there.
Step Eight: Transmission mount (to be continued)
Step Nine: Speedo cable (to be continued)
Step Ten: Driveshaft (to be continued)

[qwkswede]

Sounds good!
When will you have the adapter plates ready to ship?
-Ken

[VolvoRat]

Were do I sent the money?
georgenorcal@hotmail.com

Right now my CNC shop is waiting on delivery of aluminum stock to pump out all the copies. The plates should be ready for delivery by the end of next week. Final costs will be out then including shipping costs.
Thanks,
Sean

PS if you are seriously interested in buying a plate please E-mail me @ volvo_p1800@hotmail.com and I will set up a priority list of who gets the first dibs on adapter plates.

Pics are up thanks to Dr Dokeh
for hosting the pics.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/drdoke/getrag/

Sean

[916volvosport]

Pics are up thanks to Dr Dokeh
for hosting the pics.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/drdoke/getrag/

Sean

damn that server is slow.. now one a pbase account:

http://www.pbase.com/getrag/inbox

[VolvoRat]

Looks DAMN GOOD BSEAN!!

[BoxDriver2]

I might possibly be interested depending on cost and issues locating a cheap trans and putting it in a 700.

Late.

[916volvosport]

I might possibly be interested depending on cost and issues locating a cheap trans and putting it in a 700.

Late.

i can get my hands on a 262 getrag (4 speed) if you're interested.. heh

[qwkswede]

Hey Sean,
I would like one of the adapters when they are ready. Any progress on getting the driveshaft and rear mount into the test car?

-Ken

[80GT]

mmmmmmmmm. 262 CR dogleg :badboy: ! M51 wannabe :-P

[916volvosport]

mmmmmmmmm. 262 CR dogleg :badboy: ! M51 wannabe :-P

it has the speedo gear :-D but i cut it off already

[WeezilUSA]

ok, I'm definately interested in this... I'm in need of a new tranny!

[VolvoRat]

How about an update?
We on the left coast are still waiting to hear good news 'bout the plates.
There are 3 definite orders comming from here.
:x:

[916volvosport]

How about an update?
We on the left coast are still waiting to hear good news 'bout the plates.
There are 3 definite orders comming from here.
:x:

i have dibs on the first 2 :wave: i already have 2 getrag 265 trannies :badboy:

Should be finishing her up tomorrow, finally got some time in the shop.. when we meant to finish it we ended up not having shop space once I got there, have to remember Adam's car is an hour and a half away. so I have to devote a day to going up there to finish it.
Anyway should have final pics by this weekend.
Sean

[lilswizzel]

Sean and I finished up the getrag install last night, now we just need to have the driveshaft Made up. Pics will be up tonight.
We made the shifer adding ~ 5/8th to the lever arm the short shift is very nice :badboy:
My suggestion for mount would be to buy a stock volvo tranny mount as the size and thread length were perfect for the mount.
For the crossmember, we modified the volvo cross member and moved it back 2 the rear mounting holes. Already tapped and threaded from factory.
It is very suprising at how clean and "stock" it all really appears you wouldnt really know that it wasnt meant to be in a volvo.
Sean hopefully will have some pictures up by tonigh.t

Like a dumbass I forgot my camera at adams.. so I will not be able to get the pics loaded until sunday night at the earliest.
The mounts came out perfect as did the shifter location and feel, everything pretty much was butter on this install. it couldn't really have been easier.
Sean
details to follow along with diagrams of mount

[VolvoRat]

:grrr: Hey how about telling us when we can get our adapters.
You got us hooked and drooling. Not to be rude but it's starting to sound like a highschool date.

P.S. I am sure that everyone will forgive you for forgetting the camera......Maybe!!!! :x:

[916volvosport]

:grrr: Hey how about telling us when we can get our adapters.
You got us hooked and drooling. Not to be rude but it's starting to sound like a highschool date.

P.S. I am sure that everyone will forgive you for forgetting the camera......Maybe!!!! :x:

damn boy.. :slap: wouldn't you rather wait to make sure that the adapters actually work and are lined up and know what to do with the drive line? :slap: :slap: :slap:

Pics uploaded to a crappy geocities account, please somebody host them at a Pbase or something so that it isn't SO slow and doesn't get cut off of bandwidth in like 20 minutes.

http://www.geocities.com/72_2002/getrag/install

The adapters are waiting for me at the CNC shop, they have been delayed quite a bit in getting materials, if anyone here has dealt with CNC shops they will know what I mean, these places are constantly behind. Final prices and shipment dates can be expected by the end of this week.
Sean

[qwkswede]

Looks great! That car is quite the mutant eh? GT interior, but late model dash? And what are those seats? Pretty neat looking combination of parts.

[towerymt]

http://www.pbase.com/stsvolvo/getrag

[bswizzle]

a volvo turns into a mutant of sorts when you have two young car nuts and mama dont want em driving mustangs.... its a 1980GT, the lil bros first car. The dash is later model 240ti dash and the seats are from an early nineties suzuki swift GT. 20 dollah junkyard hollah... some creative metalwork and they bolted right in... with him having my 89 745ti as a daily driver im sure you will be seeing the GT getting a lil crazier :badboy:

ok I finally got the word from the CNC shop that they are done, costs are $175 shipped in continental US.
Please e-mail me with orders and I will reply with instructions.
Sean
volvo_p1800@hotmail.com

[Captain Bondo]

If these trannies are indeed availible in north america I'd be interested.

Stupid m46's explosions.... lol

Any junkyard should be able to get one for no problem.. ask for one from a (1979-1981)635csi, a 528i, a 733i, or a 582e (1982) or a 535is (1985)
I was quoted 200 pulled by a local junkyard and they said they had a bunch in stock... Make sure you get the shifter and the driveshaft and try to get the bellhousing and clutch TO bearing.
Sean

[qwkswede]

I am curious to know if anyone has rebuilt one of these transmissions yet. Just synchros anyway. Reading the metricmechanic site, it seems that they wear syncros pretty quickly. All the used tranmissions I see are in cars with 200-300K miles. I would think the syncros could use replacing at least. And I am not talking about a $1500 rebuild from a pro. I have done enough manual transmission rebuilds to perform the job if there are no "tricks" and the parts are not too expensive. German trans parts are typically VERY expensive. I once paid $400 for 2 mainshaft bearings in my Porsche gear box.

-Ken

[lilswizzel]

Well without sean i installed the driveshaft and it needs some manipulation to get the sucker to stop hitting but its on and it moves. And after that time to deal with the other 900 problems with the car.
CHEERS :roll:

I have the adapter plates in here, they are SO sweetlooking all CNCed outta T6 aluminum. Price is $175 shipped in US. I will get some pics of them up soon outta batteries now.
The driveshaft problem on adam's car can almost definitely be assured to be clearance between the shifter tower and the Guibo (BMW part name) Anyway this was because we added a spacer in there cause I thought it was too high I guess I was wrong.
Anyway once we get that straightened out we can get some driving impressions.
E-mail me with any orders. make the subject "Getrag"
Thanks!
Sean

volvo_p1800@hotmail.com

[jcrump84]

i know that i am interested, and ben(weezil) is too. I will be in contact with you for some more information..
Jordan

[916volvosport]

i know that i am interested, and ben(weezil) is too. I will be in contact with you for some more information..
Jordan

my dad and i got our adapters today :badboy:

Hey Fred and Pat,
What were your impressions of the adapters?
Sean

Hey Fred and Pat,
What were your impressions of the adapters?
Sean

The adapters look really good. I tried one on a 265 and it fit perfectly. I'm looking forward on getting the volvo housing drilled out and getting the transmissions installed. My daughter. Pat's sister is a mechanical engineer, and she was also impressed. Good job! :wave: :lol:
Fred

Looking forward for installation instructions!

[BoxDriver2]

I am going to wait until someone tosses one in a 700. I can't have my car down for a long time since it is my daily driver. If someone does it or has done it, please let me know what it entails.

I am also having issues finding a trans cheap :e-shrug:

[916volvosport]

I am going to wait until someone tosses one in a 700. I can't have my car down for a long time since it is my daily driver. If someone does it or has done it, please let me know what it entails.

I am also having issues finding a trans cheap :e-shrug:

my father and i did not have too many issues finding a few trannies.. we're not sure how we'll hook up a speedo gear..

[RedDragon]

I just got mine in the mail yesterday. It was kind of weird getting a big envelope with an actual car part in it.

Since I have a 740, my installation might be different than the 240s. I'll keep you posted.

[BoxDriver2]

Let me know how it goes. Its either this or a T5 and i would like to see what is easier.

DanGTO@aol.com

Thanks.

[RedDragon]

Some radom groping on the internet yielded some BMW tranny ratios:

The M3 from 1988 used this one:
1st: 3.83:1
2nd: 2.20:1
3rd: 1.40:1
4th: 1.00:1
5th: 0.81:1


The 320i from 1977-1979 used this one:
Transmission 4 Speed:
- ---------------------
GETRAG 242
Ratios:
1st 3.764:1
2nd 2.043:1
3rd 1.320:1
4th 1.000:1


E21 320i 1980 - 1982
********************
Transmission 5 Speed:
- ---------------------
GETRAG 245
Ratios:
1st 3.680:1
2nd 2.000:1
3rd 1.330:1
4th 1.000:1
5th 0.8065:1



E21 320i 1983
*************

Transmission 5 Speed:
- ---------------------
GETRAG 240

Ratios:

1st 3.717:1
2nd 2.019:1
3rd 1.316:1
4th 1.000:1
5th 0.805:1

That info was pirated from:
http://www.digest.net/bmw/archive/v5/msg00483.html



Wait!!! Here's some better info. Duh. It's from one of our own (Anthony Hyde):

http://wwwrsphysse.anu.edu.au/~amh110/Technical_pages/gearbox_ratios_compared.htm

Looks very useful.....

Incidentally, Anthony Hyde refers visitors to this site about BMWs:

http://www.metricmechanic.com/

[916volvosport]

Let me know how it goes. Its either this or a T5 and i would like to see what is easier.

DanGTO@aol.com

Thanks.

easier? come on man.. either way it requires an adapter, spliced driveline, rigged t/o bearing and pilot bearing, etc

-patrick

[WeezilUSA]

Ok, so I'm a little confused on which cars these tranny's came on. Am I right here?

'79-81 6 and 7 series
'82 528
'85 535
'87-91 M3

So far I have found a tranny from a '78 733i, for 275, a '90 M3 tranny for 600, an '85 635 for 475... As far as I can tell, only the M3 trans will work, and its more than I want to spend. Which cars am I missing? Is the '79-81 5 series any good?

[Hank Scorpio]

Not really, the T5 can use the 5.0 mustang Pilot bearing with out issue :wink:

Sounds like they are working good Sean!

[WeezilUSA]

Woo Hoo... I just found a tranny, 200 dollars, pulled. I'm going to pick it up later today!

So whats the clutch deal w/ this anyways... I have the 9" flywheel... I just need a Bmw disc, and use my pressure plate?

Use the BMW clutch disc.. the 215mm is the 8.5 and you can get good puck ones for use with stock volvo PP on the 9" get one from a 228mm BMW.. should be almost any of the 6 cylinders and most of the Hight output 4 cylinders.. should be able to get a nice puck one also.. just check around.
Sean

[WeezilUSA]

I paid for the tranny today, and they said they'd have it pulled tommorow. I got the tranny/shifter/driveshaft for 250... and also found a nice black leather interior for my friends 240, so it was really a worthwhile trip to the junkyard. I'll probably get a clutch from clutchnet, they are pretty good (although my organic from there took a while longer to break in then I expected)... I'll probably go with a 6 puck sprung hub, stock PP, but I'm not entirely sure.

[WeezilUSA]

****, I just picked up a 262, not a 265... I dunno if I can return it... ****! I don't want a 4 speed... I just started taking it apart in the garage when I realized.

[nohbudi]

it may just be a 262 Case, like all the models are in. check the number on the output yoke, if it says 265 or 264 your in good shape

[WeezilUSA]

I'm pretty sure it's a four speed, comparing it to the pictures of adam's car, it doesn't have the extra piece that is between the main body and the end cap... and the shifter thing is longer... I didn't know that some of them were 4 speeds. It came out of a 1979 528i... and I didn't check if it was 4 or 5 before they pulled it... I just made sure it was the right year. crap, they said they might not take it back, because they had to pull it special. I hope I can work this out... I already ordered clutch and adaptor... and I don't really want to spend the money to swap in a 4 speed.

[916volvosport]

it may just be a 262 Case, like all the models are in. check the number on the output yoke, if it says 265 or 264 your in good shape

not all 265s have 265 stamped on it.. the three that we have don't have it stamped... one way to tell is if it is divided into 3 housings/sections (not counting the bell housing. the 262 bell housing is 2 housings

-patrick

[WeezilUSA]

Its definately 4 speed, I can't believe I didn't check it ahead of time... I hope i'm not stuck w/ it...

[WeezilUSA]

Well, I was able to return it... I ended up trading it for a pair of 940 front seats(almost perfect grey leather), a set of 940 bumpers, and a near perfect 240 rear seat(black leather)... I guess I came out about even... And the search continues for the elusive 265...

BTW, at first the guy tried to show me how the 262 was a 5 speed... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: See, 1-2, 3-4, 5-R... He was actually just doing 1-2, 3-4, 3-4... oh man...

I ordered a 6 puck sprung hub clutch from www.clutchnet.com, so that should be here in a week or so... that just leaves me w/ finding a tranny again. :rofl: Hey Sean, maybe I should drive down to oregon if there are a lot in the yards down there?

[916volvosport]

Well, I was able to return it... I ended up trading it for a pair of 940 front seats(almost perfect grey leather), a set of 940 bumpers, and a near perfect 240 rear seat(black leather)... I guess I came out about even... And the search continues for the elusive 265...

BTW, at first the guy tried to show me how the 262 was a 5 speed... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: See, 1-2, 3-4, 5-R... He was actually just doing 1-2, 3-4, 3-4... oh man...

I ordered a 6 puck sprung hub clutch from www.clutchnet.com, so that should be here in a week or so... that just leaves me w/ finding a tranny again. :rofl: Hey Sean, maybe I should drive down to oregon if there are a lot in the yards down there?

6-puck spring hub clutch? is that supposed to be good? :e-shrug: i was just thinking of getting a cheap 4-cyl clutch disc and what till i have my dual friction cf resplined.. is it better than a cf dual friction? i don't know much about bmw clutch discs :-\

[WeezilUSA]

well, the 6 puck is gonna wear better, and have a better holding power than an organic compound... Its not going to want to slip as much, its going to be grabbier, but for what I'm using my car for, I think its going to be better.

[916volvosport]

well, the 6 puck is gonna wear better, and have a better holding power than an organic compound... Its not going to want to slip as much, its going to be grabbier, but for what I'm using my car for, I think its going to be better.

i went to your website.. i hate to pick on your 1/4 mile.. but... you got a 15.6 with 14 psi and a v15 camshaft and a/c removed? :-\ so what are you using your car for? is your engine getting tired along with the tranny? i don't have much to brag about.. i only got a 15.7 in the 1/4 running 10-11 psi on my 242 full tank of gas... might be the engine.. it's fairly new.. or the electric fan =) has a restrictive 2.5" exhaust (not mandrel bends).. anyways, i hope to run a bigger mitsu turbo (have a td04h-13c for now) and additional injectors (via haltech aic).. i use the m46.. i broken 3rd gear on one, 3 one-way clutches (inside overdrive), and the output shaft to the overdrive...

-patrick g

[WeezilUSA]

Well, that was actually a quarter mile time from a year and a half ago... with no cam, downpipe, a/c removed... and no traction... I was spinning my tires alot... and I use my car for autocross... plus I want to get into some on track schools... maybe events. I know my engine is tired... 216k on the '85 b230ft... I am getting a b23 block built up this winter... after my tranny is in.... My car is much faster right now then it was when I took it to the drag strip... so yeah... thats why my 1/4 time sucks... What was your trap speed?

[916volvosport]

Well, that was actually a quarter mile time from a year and a half ago... with no cam, downpipe, a/c removed... and no traction... I was spinning my tires alot... and I use my car for autocross... plus I want to get into some on track schools... maybe events. I know my engine is tired... 216k on the '85 b230ft... I am getting a b23 block built up this winter... after my tranny is in.... My car is much faster right now then it was when I took it to the drag strip... so yeah... thats why my 1/4 time sucks... What was your trap speed?

91.6 mph

The threads on this first run of plates are NOT M12x1.75 like they are supposed to be they are M12x1.5 the place making it messed up here and the peons threading them used the wrong threads..
This doesn't effect anything except that you need to get different thread studs and nuts and bolts than what is previously mentioned. Sory if this causes any problems the next run of plates will be corrected.
Thanks!
Sean

[qwkswede]

Hey guys. If you are in the michigan area and need a Getrag still there is a good one on ebay right now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33733&item=2439023599

That is supposedly one of the stronger ones too, the 1985 model is one of the better ones for sure.
The guy says he doesn't want to ship it, or I would be all over it.


-Ken

[BoxDriver2]

Yep, hes about 5 min away, i contacted him before, waiting for a reply still.

[BoxDriver2]

Pending sale of the trans. I pick it up on friday.

:wave:

Late

[Ian325iT]

the getrag 260 is the trans to get, its one of the best Getrag ever put out, a total beast too. Many people use this in 3.0, 3.2 swaps in the BMW world. Comes stock on E30 325i's, and i believe 325e's. BUT it may not be possible in the light of some Volvo engineering that i do not know about. The "9 inch" 228mm clutch is also what the 260 trans uses. If your using that pressure plate, i guess your using the flywheel too eh? If its an "i" flywheel, you can get it shaved by about 5 pounds (18 to 13) and it makes one hell of a difference. Better than shelling out 500 for an aluminum 8 pounder. If your looking for an uprated disc with this setup, check out...www.bmw2002.com, go to E30 performance, then driveline, then look at the Racing clutch disc...its designed to be used with the stock 228mm pressure plate and throw out bearing....just some info if yall need...maybe im way off base! ; )

[qwkswede]

It has to be one of the transmissions found behind the BIG six cylinder engine for this particular conversion. That means 5 and 7 series cars. At least how I understand it. The 3 series BMWs 4 and 6 cylinder, have a totally different bellhousing and trans configuration.

[WeezilUSA]

It doesn't have the detatchable bellhousing...

[Ian325iT]

i do believe some of the very early 325e's had detachable bell-housings..Also, the Big 6 trans's and the E30 M3 trans, i hear, are interchangeable, so theres another option for ya.

Getrag in this car in NY whole car for $200 you can come out of this deal smelling like a rose.. sell the big 6 and some of the other 733 parts and keep the tranni and you will come out 100's ahead. This car has the 265 5 speed with speedo drive.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6009&item=2440590192
Sean

I had the wrong one this is corrected

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6009&item=2440590192

[Badfish740]

I would have completely missed this topic if it wasn't for towerymt, I'm never really in the for sale forum. Anyway, I may be able to get a Getrag trans from an '80 733i for free if I play my cards right. However I'm looking to do the swap on a 740. I combed through the posts and saw that a few people were going to try it on a 740. Since I have a limited time frame to work in I want to make sure that the swap is doable and snag free. Has anyone completed a 740 swap yet?

Thanks,

Matthew

[WeezilUSA]

I wonder if the shift linkage from a 262 would combine w/ the 265 to get it in the right ballpark... I might try that... I now have clutch, adaptor, and tranny... just need driveshaft, and stuff

The shift linkage should fit right on.. and any driveshaft from a BMW with the same size "Guibo" fitting should work you can even use a just the front if that is what you find.. Just go to a junkyard where the pull the engines and trannis and look in the cars for the driveshaft they generally throw them in there and bring along the guibo from your tranni.
Sean

[Badfish740]

Forgive my ignorance but what in God's name is a Guibo? I'm assuming it's a German word :e-shrug:

Thanks,

Matthew

[qwkswede]

Reading through the posts, I didn't see the final outcome of the driveshaft on the original guinea pig car. Was a custom part made or was there a salvage part that worked out?

-Ken

[916volvosport]

Reading through the posts, I didn't see the final outcome of the driveshaft on the original guinea pig car. Was a custom part made or was there a salvage part that worked out?

-Ken

spliced the volvo and bmw together....

[qwkswede]

I have never really heard the term before this thread but it is the rubber coupler between the transmission output shaft and driveshaft. Kindof a round biscuit that they both bolt to.

Forgive my ignorance but what in God's name is a Guibo? I'm assuming it's a German word :e-shrug:

Thanks,

Matthew

Here is a CR 5 speed with 70k on it for sale in the LA area.
http://www.roadfly.org/bmw/classifieds/general/detview.php?view=22100
Sean

[qwkswede]

Has anyone looked into fitting the mechanical speedo drive parts into the later model Getrag transmissions? The casting looks the same. There is a plug covering the place where I suspect the speedo drive attached on the earlier cars. I have no idea whats inside though. I was wondering if it would be possible to retrofit the speedo drive parts to my 85 model Getrag?

[916volvosport]

Has anyone looked into fitting the mechanical speedo drive parts into the later model Getrag transmissions? The casting looks the same. There is a plug covering the place where I suspect the speedo drive attached on the earlier cars. I have no idea whats inside though. I was wondering if it would be possible to retrofit the speedo drive parts to my 85 model Getrag?

my dad and i picked up the speedo setup.. it has this cable and speedo box.. dunno what it does.. might check out how it hooks into the dash.. i don't have a solution...

[qwkswede]

I am more concerned with the connections at the transmission end of the speedo cable. Did you get the parts out of one of the early Getrag transmissions that uses a mechanical speedo drive? What all did you get?

The newer cars use an electronic speedometer sensor and don't have any mechanical drive. Thats what I am trying to fix.

[916volvosport]

I am more concerned with the connections at the transmission end of the speedo cable. Did you get the parts out of one of the early Getrag transmissions that uses a mechanical speedo drive? What all did you get?

The newer cars use an electronic speedometer sensor and don't have any mechanical drive. Thats what I am trying to fix.

from a 262 getrag i got everything from the speedo drive (looks like the same as 265 with mechanical speedos).. the cable goes to a box (possibly a reduction gear)... that's all i know so far..

-patrick

[WeezilUSA]

so I need the pilot bearing and throw out bearing for the bmw right?

On the pilot bearings after searching a lot I am having a fab guy I know turn out a bunch of brass bushings to use the stock volvo Pilot bearing ( I am gonna send these out to the people whom I already shipped adapter plates to for no extra cost, new orders will have to add $5) with and yeah you need the BMW TO bearing.
On the Speedo, from a later car to make it mech drive you just need to grab the gear and cable end from a older car (or any BMW with a Mech speedo drive) there is a 10mm bolt on the side you pull that out and the gear will fall out you can then put this into your 265.
Sean

[qwkswede]

Thanks Sean,
I have a clutch and TO bearing on the way. I wasn't sure how I was going to deal with the pilot bearing just yet. I ordered a BMW one just in case. Now if the snow and zero degree weather would stop, I might get out and work on the thing.

-Ken

[Hank Scorpio]

I am more concerned with the connections at the transmission end of the speedo cable. Did you get the parts out of one of the early Getrag transmissions that uses a mechanical speedo drive? What all did you get?

The newer cars use an electronic speedometer sensor and don't have any mechanical drive. Thats what I am trying to fix.

Could always use an aftermarket Electronic Tach. Autometer (like mine) has a universal that you just calibrate with any signal.

[qwkswede]

So what signal drives your electronic speedo? Are you running abs sensors or something? Or a late model rear end with trigger wheel inside? I was thinking about that too. You could even use a 740 speedometer with the electronic speedo if you could find a trigger to make it work on a 240.

[Hank Scorpio]

Im just using an autometer adapter for ford transmissions.

Its all hooked up, I just need a speedo drive gear (of any ratio) for my T5.

[WeezilUSA]

How would you recommend I modify my TO bearing... I have a hydraulic clutch, so it doesn't go all the way across, it actually looks like a fork.

[qwkswede]

Sean,
Im not sure how many more of these adapter plates you are dedicated to produce or sell. But I would suggest this information somehow gets transfered over to the new tech articles area of this website. I think alot of potential Getrag users must miss this information hiding in the "for sale" section.

Any word on the pilot bearing adapters? I have all other parts here now. I was looking at the BMW pilot bearing. Its much smaller on the outer diameter than the volvo one.

-Ken

[WeezilUSA]

Yeah, I could use that bushing anytime now... And I modidfied the Throwout to work... it was pretty easy... even easier than the cable clutch setup...

[qwkswede]

Anybody know if the bellhousings from the 740s are different than the 240 ones in the area of the clutch cable attachment? I have a spare 700 bellhousing sitting on my bench that I would like to do the surgery to. But then I realized that the clutch slave cylinder mount may not be the same as the cable mount that is still in my car. I'll have to take some stuff apart to get a closer look for sure. Just wondering if anyone knew from experience? Id rather not take my car apart until I am ready to do the swap.

[WeezilUSA]

well hydraulic clutches don't pull, they push, so the pivot is on the other side

[qwkswede]

Yessiree, you are correct. I guess I'll need to go find a 240 bellhousing in the scrap yard this week. I didn't even think about that.

[qwkswede]

http://www.denverspeed.com/volvo/images/clutch-disk.jpg

I thought some people might like to see this. Here is the disk I ordered from SPEC for my conversion. It was made to order for my application. They took my call, and had theclutch finished and shipped out the following day. It is 228mm diameter, 10 spline BMW hub, sprung center for a little nicer street driving. The friction material is a puc type I am told, but I don't know exactly what that means other than it will hold 2x the torque load of the stock organic disk even with a stock pressure plate. There are no leaf springs between the front and back surfaces. It is a solid metal disk there. This probably makes the engagement less progressive. But, you can pick and choose what you want. They can do anything.

This is what SPEC calls the stage 3 disk. I have run this type of disk before and it is pretty grabby and takes some practice to launch the car smoothly on the street. But it will hold up to anything you can throw at it. I will be interested to see how this unit feels behind a 4 cylinder volvo. I have only used them behind V8s before.

[WeezilUSA]

So has anybody had any luck finding 12x1.5 studs? B/C everywhere I went today only had studs up to 10mm... in that thread pitch... Sean any ideas? Can the machine shop help out, or maybe should I just use bolts instead of studs for the adaptor to trans part?

I will call my bolt supplier tomorrow, I hadn't looked for studs I found many bolts but didn't look farther than napa cause I figured if napa had bolts studs should be easy to find. If I don't have luck with the bolt supplier I will have to get after my CNC shop for being dumbasses and we will figure something out, worst case I will send studs (which I will somehow get) with the bushing for the Pilot bearing.
Sean

[qwkswede]

Same problem here. I went to my local distributor for the area - AAA metric. They had bolts in that thread pitch, but no studs. I haven't tried assembling yet, but I am hoping bolts will work.

[CNGBrick]

The bellhousings have a mounting location for both types of pivots (hydraulic and cable). The cable should fit in the slave cylinder location as well.

RT

[MattP]

www.mcmaster.com has them

[916volvosport]

www.mcmaster.com has them

they only have m12 x 1.75 studs.........

[WeezilUSA]

Yeah, I went to a fasteners place, a good hardware store, and Napa, none of them have over 10mm studs in 1.5 thread pitch... 12mmx1.5 bolts, but no studs... Are studs necessary? And when is the bushing shipping out? I have my car apart in the garage waiting for its new transmission, and I'm borrowing a car that has to go back sooner rather than later... Thanks

studs are not absolutely necessary as you can use bolts however then ou run into worries of pulling repeatedly and change of gumming up the threads. I am haveing some studs sourced out for me I will send a set with the bushing.
Weezil sorry about the bushing delay I am a full time student with a 25 hr/wk job so my spare time is rather scarce and I haven't been able to bug my machinist to turn those bushings faster. On yours I wil go to my friends house and turn a bushing for you and send it out ASAP, but this is Dead week so it might not be super fast.
Sean

[WeezilUSA]

so far no bolts long enough to cut the head off of, wheel studs aren't long enough... Kinda screwed so far... One guy recommended going out to 14mm studs but I dunno about that...

[towerymt]

so far no bolts long enough to cut the head off of, wheel studs aren't long enough... Kinda screwed so far... One guy recommended going out to 14mm studs but I dunno about that...

http://www.nuttycompany.com/metthreaded_rod.html

[CNGBrick]

[quote:f2b7d86016="WeezilUSA"]so far no bolts long enough to cut the head off of, wheel studs aren't long enough... Kinda screwed so far... One guy recommended going out to 14mm studs but I dunno about that...

http://www.nuttycompany.com/metthreaded_rod.html[/quote:f2b7d86016]

They only list low carbon steel for fine pitch... I recommend you ask for grade 8.8 or better if you call. Another possibility may be to helicoil the adapter plate for a standard pitch if that is feasible (haven't seen the plates myself though). Just a suggestion.

RT

I have the 12mm 1.5 bolts to cut the head off of sourced out and will pick them up tomorrow then I will just need to cut heads off and send them out. These will be 50mm long (threaded studs) will that be long enough someone please measure with tranni as I don't have one at my house right now.
Sean

[WeezilUSA]

50mm might be long enough... it's not gonna leave a lot of clearance... The tab on the trans is 19mm thick... So it's about the same as the adaptor plate.... That leaves 12mm of length for a nut, which is kinda slim.. That's if the bolt is threaded in all the way.

[qwkswede]

I lost track of the thread for a while when it moved. But I found it after a search.

I "bolted" the adapter plate to my transmission tonight. I don't see any problems with doing it this way. I used 40mm long bolts with a pretty thick metric washer. I bought grade 8.8, but there was 10.8 available too.

The bolts just barely come through the other side. I need to shorten them by about .5 - 1.0mm to make sure the bellhousing bolts down flush.

Take a look,

www.denverspeed.com/volvotrans.html

[towerymt]

You can get 40mm long and 50mm long fully threaded bolts from bolt depot in m12x1.5 for $1.10ea. and $1.35ea. respectively

http://www.boltdepot.com/

yeah I have these sourced out at .42 cents per 8.8 grade. I never said you couldn't use bolts instead of studs I just say there is no guarantee on how well the plate will stand up to removal and refitting with the threads into the AL plate being stressed every time.. Although it is T6061 AL.
Sean

[WeezilUSA]

Well, what would you reccomend then Sean? And when are the bushings gonna ship out? I need to get my car together soon.... and basically I'm waiting around on these little parts...

[WeezilUSA]

Ok I just ended up getting bolts.... I figure it's not going to be coming apart that often anyways... So bushings???

Ben

While I was over at my friend's turning bushings (after the machine shop took almost a week to make them all wrong) Anyway he decided to look though this IBI Guide while I was there turning bushings and see if THEY had any bearings listed.
Well sure enough there is one that is pretty much perfect for this application.
IBI Group # 10469
ID 12mm (volvo 15mm, BMW 12mm)
OD 35mm (volvo 35mm, bmw 37mm)
Width 10mm (Volvo 11mm, BMW ???)

Brand Part #
Fafnir 201S
201KS
Federal 201S
Cromtex S134135V
USA FSN 3110-00-554-5777

If you go to a bearing store and ask for any of these bearings they should have them there, or be able to order them easily, if they balk tell them you found it in the IBI guide and they will look and see that it is there and order it for you.
Thanks!
Sean

[qwkswede]

I had looked for that bearing size a couple weeks ago. Everything with that 201S part number shows up as 12mm ID, 32mm OD. Not the needed 35mm OD.

I did consider ordering this bearing though.
It is part number 6659K11 that you can see here:

flanged bughing page (http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/psearch.asp?FAM=plainbearings&FT_158=39711&FT_992=39989&FT_1044=41088&FT_995=40079&session=plainbearings;158=39711;992=39989;1044=410 88;995=40079)

It is 12mm ID and 15mm OD, so it should work to take up the space between the Volvo pilot bearing and the BMW input shaft. I was waiting to see if Sean was going to send something first. But, I am getting anstsy so I am ordering this up to try it out. I hope it fits tight and the bearing turns, not the bushing. I suppose it doesn't matter if you get some grease on the parts. But there is going to be some stacked up clearances by using 2 parts in here instead of one. But it might still work.

After talking with the bearing place today and being offered the rightbearing at a price of $25 each +shipping with a quantity of only 9 in stock I decided that those buschings look like the way to go.
Sean

[qwkswede]

All is good. I got the pilot bearing problem sorted out I hope.

A picture......
http://www.denverspeed.com/volvo/images/bearing1.jpg

And another....
http://www.denverspeed.com/volvo/images/bearing2.jpg

I ordered both of these parts from Mcmaster-carr. I was glad to find that the bronze bushing is a slight press fit into the center hub of the ball bearing. I just used my vise. The fit on the input shaft is perfect, just a snug sliding fit. And it should all snap into the back of the crankshaft without any trouble.

I hope the little flange on the bushing doesn't interfere and keep the input shaft from sliding forward as far as it needs to. I guess I could put the flange on the engine side of the pinion bearing. Though I am afraid the bushing might work its way out of the bearing that way.

I think I have it sorted out. I'll post again when I get the transmission bolted into the car.

-Ken

[916volvosport]

got a part number?

[WeezilUSA]

I ended up machining a bushing for it with my dad... So update on mine:

Shifter: M46 700 series linkage modified... DONE
Pilot Bearing: Brass Bushing... DONE
Throw out bearing: Cut back the hydraulic fork a little... DONE
Fasteners... Used all bolts no studs (first run adaptor plate)... DONE
Driveshaft: Volvo, lengthened about 8"... DONE
Clutch: www.clutchnet.com 6 puck M3 clutch... DONE

So now, I just have to figure out my tranny mount, and install it...

Ben

a useful link if you plan on having a short shifter.... http://www.shortshifter.com/pdfs/UUC_Selector_Rod_Modification_Instructions.PDF

Thanks to Patrick.
Sean

[Anonymous]

Doesn't the BMW Pilot Bearing fit to the Volvo flywheel?

[916volvosport]

Doesn't the BMW Pilot Bearing fit to the Volvo flywheel?

no.. a bushing would have to be fabbed or sized up

-patg

[WeezilUSA]

It's easier to use a bushing on the shaft, and use the volvo throw out bearing... I got my tranny mount all done, but then blew out my slave cylinder, so now I'm waiting for the new part... Also, I can't get my freaking driveshaft to go back on... The index mark was lost when I had it lengthened (darg)... So I thought I had it lined up right, but I was actually forcing it on the wrong way... I still gotta figure this out... any ideas?

I am not POSITIVE on this but I think ben is talkiing about the pilot bearing not the TO bearing.
Still fighting that Driveshaft? that sucks, me thinks that it is a good idea to take the driveshaft out as one piece and then you don't ahve to worry about this.
Sean

[WeezilUSA]

Yeah, I meant pilot bearing... You don't want to use the volvo TO bearing, it won't fit, and it's not very expensive to get a brand new bmw one... (I think mine ran me 6 dollars or so.

[WeezilUSA]

ALLLLLLRIGHT!!! It runs, it drives... The gear ratios are awesome... My shifter is a little messed up (we made it a little to far to the right)... Anyways, I used the M46 shifter modified... I'm gonna see if this is gonna work, then post more... :e-shrug:

[stylngle2003]

awesome man, can't wait to see some pics, hear some observations, etc

good luck

:volvo:

[jcrump84]

yeah man, the tranny is sweet (i got the first ride with it in :-P )

anyways mad props to ben for getting that thing in there, seems like it is gonna be a good thing for a long time!!



Jordan

[WeezilUSA]

So when you are using the hydralic clutch, you gotta lengthen the actuator arm on the slave cylinder a little bit, b/c it'll overextend itself stock, and get stuck full open... The simple solution that i came up w/ is using a 1/2" socket over the end, it lengthens it just enough to work. The problem is, I didnt attatch it at all, and tonight it fell off, leaving me w/o a clutch in the street (luckily just pulling out of the driveway... So she spends another night inside, while I work on JB welding the socket onto the actuator... I'll update again, I think this is going to work.

For the driveshaft, I just had the stock volvo one lengthened, running the Guibo from the volvo, and all the stock bolts ( it bolts right up)...

[Sean]

Come on guys these trannis are pretty easy to find and the swap is simple.
shoot me an e-mail if yah want a plate.
Sean
volvo_p1800@hotmail.com

[745T+]

Anybody know if the bellhousings from the 740s are different than the 240 ones in the area of the clutch cable attachment? I have a spare 700 bellhousing sitting on my bench that I would like to do the surgery to. But then I realized that the clutch slave cylinder mount may not be the same as the cable mount that is still in my car. I'll have to take some stuff apart to get a closer look for sure. Just wondering if anyone knew from experience? Id rather not take my car apart until I am ready to do the swap.

The bell housing is the same.

[745T+]

Yessiree, you are correct. I guess I'll need to go find a 240 bellhousing in the scrap yard this week. I didn't even think about that.

The bell housings are the same. The hydraulic clutch uses a different ball stud installed in a threaded boss near the throwout arm opening.

[RedFridge]

Sean's plates are quality. Saw em for myself, + would be a good person to deal with.

[916volvosport]

Sean's plates are quality. Saw em for myself, + would be a good person to deal with.
should have gotten one yourself then. support the american small business now. :-P

[WeezilUSA]

Yea Yea Yea! Getrag still working great!

[916volvosport]

The bell housing is the same.
bell housings are not the same on all 240s.. 86+ are different slightly (different castings on the insides) than the pre 86..... check out my pics in the performance forums.... under "yet another busted m46"..

-patg