Potential of a B200ET

[paul4be]

Looks like I'm about to step into the world of Volvo turbo ownership with a 940.

How tuneable is the B200 compared to the B230??

I'd try searching, but there isn't much here at present.

Thanks

[Wagner]

Anything you can do to a B230 you can do to a B200 as well. The only difference is that the B230 is 15% bigger in displacement than the B200.

Turbocharging is going to be the way to go, if that is legal where you are.

If you do not want to add a turbo to your existing engine for some reason you can also drop in a factory turbo engine. Any redblock will bolt right in place of the B200.

EDIT: Redblocks are the iron block, red colored engines found in 200-series, 700-series and 900-series volvos. There are factory turbocharged redblocks on every model.

EDIT2: So you already have a turbo model, doh. Apparently i suck at reading. So yes, the same basic tricks apply to the B200 turbo engines as well.

[paul4be]

LOL

Thanks. I'm assuming that the same cam profiles are successful in the B200? Just that I have a V cam sitting here that could go in.

[BB-Q]

A V cam will do you just fine. You'll find that the B200 responds better, cc for cc, than the B230 initially. It's in a slightly higher state of tune as standard. You'll find that the same cam profile is slightly more aggresive in the smaller engine due to the fact that it has the same size valves as it's bigger brother, so it effectively has a big valve head on it's smaller shoulders.

Once you get beyond a cam and a bit of boost though, you'll find that the B230 responds better.

Despite it's larger capacity it's actually a revvier engine due to it being more oversquare than the smaller bored B200.

[paul4be]

Thanks again.

Closer to 200hp would be great, not looking for more than that. How does a B200 respond to a larger turbo? i.e. Is it worth considering in the future?

[BB-Q]

Mine has a Cosworth T3 and Frpe82's chips and has seen 20psi with no problems at all (with a big intercooler). That equates to about 300hp with supporting mods (intercooler, injectors, cam, exhaust). So easily done, yes.

[Wagner]

Thanks again.

Closer to 200hp would be great, not looking for more than that. How does a B200 respond to a larger turbo? i.e. Is it worth considering in the future?

I've had a B19ET engine, which is a factory turbo engine with K-jetronic fuel injection system. It has exactly same bore and stroke as the B200, only the static compression ratio is higher in the B200 turbo models

I had done a few very basic things to it. It had a better than stock intercooler, Volvo original A-stamped camshaft, 3 inch exhaust system, an intake manifold from a F-model engine and a turbo with a larger (s-60 trim) compressor wheel bolted to a ported 1990+ turbo exhaust manifold. And an additional fuel injector controlled by MicroDynamics PIC5.

It was a nice engine.

So if you don't want to go through the trouble of changing engines you can still modify the B200 to be quite enjoyable. As long as it is 1990 or newer. Those have stronger connecting rods then the ones in b200 engines from 1985 to 1989.

But 900-series did come out in 1990 so they should all have the stronger rodded engines.

[paul4be]

Should be picking the car up at the weekend. It's a '93.

Don't want to get into an engine swap, it really doesn't need it. I'd just like something reasonably quick as a daily driver.

[stylngle2003]

Should be picking the car up at the weekend. It's a '93.

Don't want to get into an engine swap, it really doesn't need it. I'd just like something reasonably quick as a daily driver.

you can certainly have that

start with the basics. get air into and out of the engine better. install a 3" downpipe and catalytic convertor, and either a 2.5" or 3" mandrel bent exhaust system. no baffled mufflers, please. port out the turbine housing and exhaust manifold for better flow into and around the wastegate hole. see a guide here: http://www.pbase.com/stealthfti/miscellany . modifiy the airbox if you can. the stock airfilter is very good and can support 400hp (it has in sweden, anyway).

install a better camshaft (V is niiice) either a stock one or from sweden (enem V15 is a great DD camshaft).

a boost controller and slightly larger injectors will help a lot too. 14-15psi will make for a very fun car

[frpe82]

One word: Chips...

Start with that and some small basic mods as a solid foundation, then build on that.

[740ATL]

what do B200 pistons/rods look like? Is the B200 a similar platform to the B230 series? Do they share cranks,rods, block, etc?

[stylngle2003]

what do B200 pistons/rods look like? Is the B200 a similar platform to the B230 series? Do they share cranks,rods, block, etc?

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=83762 (should be a sticky, even in the temporary state of the board)

[Janspeed]

if it's a '93 940 we're talking B200FT, right?
(LH2.4, 155BHP@5600rpm, 258Nm@2800rpm, CR 8.5:1, bore 88.9mm, stroke 80mm , 1986cc, rearaxelratio 3,730:1, it'll have a T-cam and a 530-head, still an oversquare rev-able engine specially with hotter cam.),
nice engine, better off-boost mileage then a B230. Lots of tuning potential.

[BB-Q]

if it's a '93 940 we're talking B200FT, right?
(LH2.4, 155BHP@5600rpm, 258Nm@2800rpm, CR 8.5:1, bore 88.9mm, stroke 80mm , 1986cc, rearaxelratio 3,730:1, it'll have a T-cam and a 530-head, still an oversquare rev-able engine specially with hotter cam.),
nice engine, better off-boost mileage then a B230. Lots of tuning potential.

Yeah, the '93 B200 is an FT L block (should have squirters) with an identical bottom end to the B230 L block. In my opinion the strongest redblock made.

They hit fuel cut at 4.8 volts though, rather than 5.1, so chips are a definite. 12psi is possible at the height of summer, but at no other time. AMM is identical too. It's all in the ECU.
The 13c is a nice little trbo on the B200- much better suited than on it's big brother.
Having said that, my 13c replacement- a Cossie turbo- is now running out of breath. :-D

[BB-Q]

Oh, if it's a Wentworth (most 93's were!) it should have a locker too.

[paul4be]

Still trying to get my head around engine designations, guess it is an FT, not ET, my bad!!
It was registered very early '93 and shows as an SE, so guess no locker??

Anyone know of UK based suppliers of decent chip upgrades, or do I need to look further afield (i.e. good old US of A)??

Thanks.

[BB-Q]

Still trying to get my head around engine designations, guess it is an FT, not ET, my bad!!
It was registered very early '93 and shows as an SE, so guess no locker??

Anyone know of UK based suppliers of decent chip upgrades, or do I need to look further afield (i.e. good old US of A)??

Thanks.

You need to do a member search for Frpe82. You'll also need a chippable ignition box from a 96-98 940. These chips are serious value for money when it comes to tuning. Also, they are absolutely required if you want to make any serious power.

I'd offer to sell you mine, as I'm going on to the next stage, Megasquirt, but I've already offered them to another member. Are you in the UK?
Ask me via PM at the end of January and I'll let you know if they're still available.

P.S. Can you weld? If not, learn. It'll be a very smart move for later. :-P

[frpe82]

Still trying to get my head around engine designations, guess it is an FT, not ET, my bad!!
It was registered very early '93 and shows as an SE, so guess no locker??

Anyone know of UK based suppliers of decent chip upgrades, or do I need to look further afield (i.e. good old US of A)??

Thanks.
I am selling chips...

Turbobricks is a little f-ed up at the moment so there is not much info about it at this time. In the "real" forums I had a big group-buy thread and a nice FAQ about this subject.

The temporary group-buy thread is here: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=82176

[740ATL]

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=83762 (should be a sticky, even in the temporary state of the board)

cool... then the b200 is like a b230-lite.

What's a b200 piston weigh? I wonder how much lighter a forged b200 unit would weigh in at.... I'm just thinking about a high-revving b200-16v turbo app... don't mind me....

[740ATL]

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=83762 (should be a sticky, even in the temporary state of the board)

cool... then the b200 is like a b230-lite.

What's a b200 piston weigh? I wonder how much lighter a forged b200 unit would weigh in at.... I'm just thinking about a high-revving b200-16v turbo app... don't mind me.... :-P

[paul4be]

You need to do a member search for Frpe82. You'll also need a chippable ignition box from a 96-98 940. These chips are serious value for money when it comes to tuning. Also, they are absolutely required if you want to make any serious power.

I'd offer to sell you mine, as I'm going on to the next stage, Megasquirt, but I've already offered them to another member. Are you in the UK?
Ask me via PM at the end of January and I'll let you know if they're still available.

P.S. Can you weld? If not, learn. It'll be a very smart move for later. :-P

Thanks, will bare that in mind and start looking for req'd ignition box.
Yes, I can weld, why?


Frpe82: thanks for the info and link. Once I know where I am going with this for certain, it looks like I may be in touch.

BB-Q: Yes, I'm in the UK (North Yorkshire)

[BB-Q]

Thanks, will bare that in mind and start looking for req'd ignition box.
Yes, I can weld, why?


Frpe82: thanks for the info and link. Once I know where I am going with this for certain, it looks like I may be in touch.

BB-Q: Yes, I'm in the UK (North Yorkshire)

You'll need to be able to weld to make your exhaust- you can't buy a 3" system off the shelf for a RHD car.

I'm in Blackpool, by the way.

[suterman]

Mine has a Cosworth T3 and Frpe82's chips and has seen 20psi with no problems at all (with a big intercooler). That equates to about 300hp with supporting mods (intercooler, injectors, cam, exhaust). So easily done, yes.

Mark, I dont mean to piss on your chips, but where do you get 300hp from?

[frpe82]

Mark, I dont mean to piss on your chips, but where do you get 300hp from?
That would equate to roughly 300HP based on how much air the engine eats up. At 20psi and with all the other supporting mods that BB-Q has, it is very possible to get 300HP in my opinion.

[BB-Q]

Mark, I dont mean to piss on your chips, but where do you get 300hp from?

Taking Fred's answer regarding air consumption into account as well Mike, bear in mind that you dynoed 198Whp with no power above 4000rpm.- due to a blocked cat and also a standard exhaust.

I'll grant that 300 (crank) hp is possibly a trifle optimistic, but it ain't far out. Mine makes power all the way to the limiter! :-P

[suterman]

hmmm


but there wasnt really that much difference in the performance after I'd sorted the exhaust and cat out.

the car topped out at 118 up the bypass before and after if I remember right.

[BB-Q]

hmmm


but there wasnt really that much difference in the performance after I'd sorted the exhaust and cat out.

the car topped out at 118 up the bypass before and after if I remember right.

And when I was chasing you (with Ryan in the car) I was catching you up that bypass!

Not much, admittedly, but I was gaining :-P

Besides, at those speeds it's as much a factor of aerodynamics- i.e., it takes a hell of a lot more power to go just a couple of mph faster.

[volvorsport]

i suppose at 20 psi you could be making 250 hp - but to say 300 crank, well maybe , have you got the supporting head and cam for your turbo ?

to say that an extra 5psi over a B230ET unleashes 50 hp ?

if you could dyno it and prove us all wrong , ill be the first to hold my hand up .

[suterman]

to be honest, I'm starting to wonder about the accuracy of the dyno I used. I guess they all give a slightly different reading. I've seen people claiming way over 200 crank hp with near enough the same kit as I had on the 940, but I'm not sure if these are estimates or calculations done on paper.....

maybe I'll start a thread about dyno results.

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?p=980485#post980485

[BB-Q]

i suppose at 20 psi you could be making 250 hp - but to say 300 crank, well maybe , have you got the supporting head and cam for your turbo ?

to say that an extra 5psi over a B230ET unleashes 50 hp ?

if you could dyno it and prove us all wrong , ill be the first to hold my hand up .

This goes back to my never ending argument with you that the head and (A) cam are more optimised on the 2.0l block and nowhere near as efficient on the 2.3l block.

I'm not in a position to afford dyno time and it seems pointless. I have nothing to prove and so won't waste time with it (my car's no longer the same spec anyway- I'm Msing it at the moment) but I do think Mike's dyno results are, frankly, bollocks. Dave, you claim to be an engine guru- look at that dyno graph and tell me it's accurate!

Same power as a Honda Prelude? I think not.






His car made far, far more power than that :-D

[HansW]

Dear members

i have seen B 200FT engines in 940 from around this time with L-blocks and without L-blocks.
The Wentworths did not have the Eaton locker as standard (1041 axle) This axle was only standard in the 960 3L with Winterpack 1991 - 1994.
The B 200 FT sees to have less problems with pistonslap and is more of a ref engine than the B 230FT. Standard engines, there is not much inbetween them on the road, as the B200Ft makes up for the higher refs with a shorter axle ratio.
Otherwise 200 Hp should be possible with a slightly increased preasure, a V-cam even a VX3 cam and maybe a different exhaust, even though the serial exhaust is identical to the B 230 FT.
Greetings, Hans

[BB-Q]

I didn't say theWentworth had a locker as standard as I've never been too sure about that, but I've not yet seen one without one. Seems they may have been a no cost option on them as most seem to have one.

[CcL]

got a b200ft from a 940 swapped into my 240... pushed over 240whp. so it is definately easy to hit 200whp.

[paul4be]

Thanks again guys, sounds like my initial intended figure of 200hp should be 'relatively' simple.

[volvorsport]

well , mine has 1041 axle, and i was told that all wentworths came with it , how accurate it was i dont know, since he was quoting a volvo tech .

so are you saying that no cars later than 94 came with a locker ?

anyway , the graph could simply be re edited so that the lines dont cross , try re doing it with same numbered axis and see what happens .