Chipping FAQ

[JW240]

I don't know about the Bosch 044, but it should be the same thing there. Just a hose clamp or two.
Bosch 044 is a in-line pump that flows 200 lph at 5 bar. very good pump. I would take that one over a Walbro, but that is just my (silly) personal preference ;-)

[frpe82]

Bosch 044 is a in-line pump that flows 200 lph at 5 bar. very good pump. I would take that one over a Walbro, but that is just my (silly) personal preference ;-)
Ah... so that number is for an inline pump then...

What is the number for the in-tank pump then?

[Bonerjams240DL]

I thought at one point there was mention of an 8V NA chip, but the first page still says there isn't one. Seeing that the "bang for your buck" is too small for these chips, what increases were noted as far as horsepower and torque?

[klr142]

You're looking in the wrong thread. There are 8V NA chips available now. I'm enjoying some right now.

[Bonerjams240DL]

klr142, what kind of gains did you see? I did a search for info on the 8V NA chips but turned up the same threads over and over again. Just wondering what kinda numbers to expect if I did purchase them.

[frpe82]

I thought at one point there was mention of an 8V NA chip, but the first page still says there isn't one. Seeing that the "bang for your buck" is too small for these chips, what increases were noted as far as horsepower and torque?
They are available. Look at the first post of this thread (http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=112641).

klr142, what kind of gains did you see? I did a search for info on the 8V NA chips but turned up the same threads over and over again. Just wondering what kinda numbers to expect if I did purchase them.
On a stock B230FB/FX you will see a gain of up to 15HP and a lot better driveability. 10HP gain on average I would say.

If it is modified, then you will gain much more. There is more potential in that engine than you think.

A B230F modifed to, or above the B230FB/FX spec, will also gain equally much power of course.

They do work very good on a near stock B230F though. More info will follow in a few days when klr142 is done with the final testing.

[klr142]

It's not just numbers. And, if I told you what I "gained" from any of my mods you wouldn't be doing any of them. But if you drove my car, you might change your mind.

I see a more immediate response when I use the throttle, I use less throttle to go up the same hills, I can overtake faster, the car actually feels like it has some power... "Numbers to expect" is a load of crap, just learn that now. An adjustable cam gear doesn't give you x horsepower, a camshaft doesn't give you x horsepower, an exhaust doesn't give you x horsepower, a larger exhaust doesn't give you x horsepower. You can't take your stock supposed horsepower of 115 and add on 5 for this, 3 for that, 10 for this. Benchracers can, but reality can't unless you are able to do it all on the same dyno, on the same day.

All I can tell you is that my car has never been as fast as it is now. Even when it weighed 100lbs less and had smaller/lighter wheels/tires giving it better gearing.

Sorry. I respond this way because there are too many people trying to tack numbers onto stock that they pick out of thin air, and it's getting annoying because it's all BS. That, and I just dynoed my car 6 days after I dynoed my car with the stock chips, and they reloaded the dyno software and it reads differently now. So much for getting a baseline and doing a test that's about as back to back as it can get with a chip swap. :grrr: Basically another $140 down the drain for nothing.

Out of everything I've done, the chips have made a larger difference than anything else. Except for maybe getting rid of the M cam...

[frpe82]

You are doing a great job testing the chips.

And yes, the numbers thrown around are just numbers. They don't tell you how the car feels or how it really performs. The real power increase is from around 20-80% on part throttle, but it will also add quite a lot to what you gain at WOT.

[Ahtopaine]

Is there some fuelcut at 960 Turbo?
Because i have problems with cutting at WOT. My setup is stage2 chips, N/A cams, ported head, 2,75" db, 3"cat, td04hl-16t turbo, 420cc injectors and opened airbox with K/N.
Or could it be only cold weather, -10C and colder? There is no fault codes.

[frpe82]

Is there some fuelcut at 960 Turbo?
Because i have problems with cutting at WOT. My setup is stage2 chips, N/A cams, ported head, 2,75" db, 3"cat, td04hl-16t turbo, 420cc injectors and opened airbox with K/N.
Or could it be only cold weather, -10C and colder? There is no fault codes.
What engine?

[Ahtopaine]

B204ft.

[frpe82]

B204ft.
Have you bought those stage 2 chips from me?

The setup you have will support a good amount of power, but even those cars and ECU's can experience fuel cut of course.

How much boost are you running?

And do you really have a 16T? The B204FT came with a Garrett turbo.

[Ahtopaine]

Yes those chips are from you. And yes I putted that 16t there. I dont have an MBC yet but i think that there is more pressure now than stock. Car is -93.

[frpe82]

Yes those chips are from you. And yes I putted that 16t there. I dont have an MBC yet but i think that there is more pressure now than stock. Car is -93.
Please look up what the pressure is.

And a 16T probably works well on the engine, but at higher boost it will not be able to keep up I think. The backpressure on the 16T may be too high, and there is also a risk of boost creep if the turbine housing is not ported.

[Ahtopaine]

There is 1 bar of boost, and then it cuts off, when it reaches about 5000 rpm.

[frpe82]

There is 1 bar of boost, and then it cuts off, when it reaches about 5000 rpm.
That is really strange...

But answer this:

If you are at WOT, does it cut out entirely and just slow down when you still hold the foot to the floor?

Or does it cut-go-cut-go-cut-go?

[Ahtopaine]

It does cut-go-cut-go-cut-go. And now it don`t do it when its warmer (-2celsius).

[fsl]

I have a 960 with stock b204ft. Will it work to install a 967 ECU with B234+T chip and a new chipped ezk?
I'm not planning to use the TCU at all. A/C will be removed, I'll run external wastegate with my own boost control and the engine fan will be controled with a separate sensor (the temp sensor for it doesnt work, and i cant get a new one anywhere)

[white83glt]

i have an 83 240 GLT w/ a b23FT engine in it. its completely stock ATM minus the upgraded spark plugs and wiring i recently put in. im about to purchase a boost controller and i stumbled into this thread.

would one of your chips work in my car? alot of the info was a bit over my head, but i saw 'improved gas mileage so long as you dont floor it' and 'hp gains of 10+' and my attention soon focused on this thread.

so please, enlighten me :)

[frpe82]

i have an 83 240 GLT w/ a b23FT engine in it. its completely stock ATM minus the upgraded spark plugs and wiring i recently put in. im about to purchase a boost controller and i stumbled into this thread.

would one of your chips work in my car? alot of the info was a bit over my head, but i saw 'improved gas mileage so long as you dont floor it' and 'hp gains of 10+' and my attention soon focused on this thread.

so please, enlighten me :)
Since your car is from 1983 you don't have LH2.2 or LH2.4 engine management system. You need one of those to use the chips.

[frpe82]

I have a 960 with stock b204ft. Will it work to install a 967 ECU with B234+T chip and a new chipped ezk?
I'm not planning to use the TCU at all. A/C will be removed, I'll run external wastegate with my own boost control and the engine fan will be controled with a separate sensor (the temp sensor for it doesnt work, and i cant get a new one anywhere)
Yes, it will work.

But if you have the B204 ECU and EZK you can keep those if you don't have a special reason to get rid of them.

(We talked about this last night, but I thought it would be good to answer the question here for others to see as well.)

[NitroX5]

That is really strange...

But answer this:

If you are at WOT, does it cut out entirely and just slow down when you still hold the foot to the floor?

Or does it cut-go-cut-go-cut-go?


What's the difference? I've got the 'cut-go' type for a long time.. but now its gone. Maybe LH learnt something?

[frpe82]

What's the difference? I've got the 'cut-go' type for a long time.. but now its gone. Maybe LH learnt something?
There are two distinct things that can happen.

Scenario 1:

You accelerate at WOT. At full load, the car goes cut-go-cut-go-cut-go when you still have your foot planted at the floor. That is most likely the AMM reaching the end of its measuring range (or rather, the ECU reaching the end of the scale).

Scenario 2:

You accelerate at WOT. At full load, the car cuts out and lose almost all power (slowing down) when you still have your foot planted at the floor. The power might return when the rpm's fall. That is most likely the intake hose collapsing.

[740tankDriver]

what happens with the LH2.4 fuel-cut after integrating b230ft+16vt ECU+ICU chips?

[frpe82]

what happens with the LH2.4 fuel-cut after integrating b230ft+16vt ECU+ICU chips?
The fuel cut is going to happen when the A/D-converter max out. Between 5 and 6 volts.

Same as most other ECU's.

Some older ECU's and ECU's for B200 engines have a lower level of fuel cut though (software limited), but that is fixed with the chips.

[740tankDriver]

The fuel cut is going to happen when the A/D-converter max out. Between 5 and 6 volts.

Same as most other ECU's.

Some older ECU's and ECU's for B200 engines have a lower level of fuel cut though (software limited), but that is fixed with the chips.

so what? a 960 AMM and keep the pressure within ~15PSI and i should be ok?

[frpe82]

so what? a 960 AMM and keep the pressure within ~15PSI and i should be ok?
Bigger AMM = less air reported to the ECU = less voltage.

By using an AMM suited for your application, you can run any amount of boost you like.

[boosted_nonv]

can i use a ezk box from another turbo car or na to put in my 91 740turbo, its ezk isnt chippable but the ecu is, i think the number on the ecu was 580

[TIPSP]

can i use a ezk box from another turbo car or na to put in my 91 740turbo, its ezk isnt chippable but the ecu is, i think the number on the ecu was 580

You should be able to use any of the LH2.4 EZK once you put the new chip in.
You ECU might me the same as mine (560). you have to check.

[boosted_nonv]

yea it is, and thanks for the advice,

Duane

[frpe82]

I have updated the last part of the first post to include some questions about EGR.

Tell me if you have any other relevant questions that might be intereting to incorporate in the same post.

[white83glt]

will the chips you are selling work with a 760 turbo sedan auto?

id really love more boost also since this car is intercooled.

[frpe82]

will the chips you are selling work with a 760 turbo sedan auto?

id really love more boost also since this car is intercooled.
You need to be more specific.

Year and engine type please.

[white83glt]

You need to be more specific.

Year and engine type please.

my bad. 1986 760 turbo, auto, intercooled. engine is b23FT

[ipdown]

A bit off topic, but if someone wonders here are the pictures of B204FT TCU unit: http://linuxfan.org/~ipdown/mybrick/tcu/

[frpe82]

my bad. 1986 760 turbo, auto, intercooled. engine is b23FT
It may be LH2.0 (or even earlier version) if you have a B230FT. I do not have chips for those.

If you can check the ECU number it would be great. Then we would know for sure.

[fsl]

Which fuel ECUs can I use on the B204FT chip?

[frpe82]

Which fuel ECUs can I use on the B204FT chip?
597 and 950.

Do you have another number?

[Ursan]

I'm to understand that the black EZK boxes are not directly chipable & require a daughterboard? Or is this an instance that I need to pull it & check?

[JR-66]

I'm to understand that the black EZK boxes are not directly chipable & require a daughterboard? Or is this an instance that I need to pull it & check?

Yes, you need to pull it open and check, good possibility for chipable black boz is -119, found in early n/a 16V

[thelostartof]

my bad. 1986 760 turbo, auto, intercooled. engine is b23FT



It may be LH2.0 (or even earlier version) if you have a B230FT. I do not have chips for those.

If you can check the ECU number it would be great. Then we would know for sure.


Now that is odd, a 86 760 should be LH 2.2 with a b230ft

[frpe82]

Yeah. Then it would have LH2.2, but the B23 would have an older EMS.

As far as I know, all B2x engines came with older stuff than LH2.2. This goes for Europe though (where most of them had ML1.1).

B1x engines on the other hand, can have LH2.2, but those are not sold in the US (360 sport and 460/480, ES and turbo).

[thelostartof]

If the chassis is an 86 is should be 2.2

[Ursan]

Yes, you need to pull it open and check, good possibility for chipable black boz is -119, found in early n/a 16V


Turns out that it is!

Bosch # 0 227 400 148 black box, chip riser perpendicular to the MoBo with a PLCC socket.

[JR-66]

Turns out that it is!

Bosch # 0 227 400 148 black box, chip riser perpendicular to the MoBo with a PLCC socket.

? chip socket is DIL type, not PLCC.

[Ursan]

? chip socket is DIL type, not PLCC.

Yup, you're right. My bad. Things I learned in the 80's are slowly eroding away.

The whole board looks like the old SIP chip carrier though. Like those lasted a long time...

not

[yamahapro]

can you runs megasquirt with these? do they come with rev limiters? and can i eliminate egr with them?

[frpe82]

can you runs megasquirt with these? do they come with rev limiters? and can i eliminate egr with them?
Megasquirt and chips are two different things. Chips upgrade the stock ECU/ezk, and Megasquirt replaces the stock system entirely.

The chips for LH2.2 and LH2.4 from me still have the stock rev limit at the moment. On my chips for several of the Motronic cars (M4.3/M4.4/ME7) the limiter is sometimes changed depending on the engine used.

The chips will eliminate the EGR function, yes.

[yamahapro]

so with the chips it will red line and keep bouncing off it?
and just a few more questions. do green top injectors flow enough for higher boost? and does gettinga 3 inch amm really make ur car faster just by adding it? thanks so much

[frpe82]

so with the chips it will red line and keep bouncing off it?
I don't exactly understand where you are getting at, but yes.

and just a few more questions. do green top injectors flow enough for higher boost?
For around 15psi on the 13c turbo and T cam, yes.

[QUOTE=yamahapro;2423970]and does gettinga 3 inch amm really make ur car faster just by adding it? thanks so much
If you add bigger injectors at the same time it will.

[yamahapro]

are green top injector big enough? what about a fpr?
will these chips make my car idle better?
and whats the benefit of these chips over the lost start of's? thanks for all the help! i hope to do business with u

[frpe82]

are green top injector big enough?
For what? For a 3" AMM?

For a 3" AMM you need injectors that are around at least 400cc/min.

what about a fpr?
You should not go much higher on the fuel pressure with the stock fuel pump.

will these chips make my car idle better?
On some ECU numbers where it is neccesary, yes.

But on most cars nothing is changed on the idle setting.

and whats the benefit of these chips over the lost start of's? thanks for all the help! i hope to do business with u
Our chips are made by the best Volvo tuners in the world, professionally tested on many cars before introduced on the market (on the street and in the lab, with many cars of different quality and tunes), and we have spent obscene amounts of money on it to get it right.

thelostartof's chips are certainly good as well.

[rumraket]

Can the chips / LH2.4 system handle changes in boost pressure, say if you were to mount an mbc, and change max boost pressure while idling? Or does this require a new "run-in" period?

How much boost can the stock chips in B230FK LH2.4 handle?

[frpe82]

Can the chips / LH2.4 system handle changes in boost pressure, say if you were to mount an mbc, and change max boost pressure while idling? Or does this require a new "run-in" period?
The car does not have to be restarted, no. But the car will start to adapt to the new boost level when the car is driven after the adjustment of course.

It has never been a problem.

How much boost can the stock chips in B230FK LH2.4 handle?
The limit is the turbo and the injector size. They run out of steam around the same time. And the intercooler will not be sufficient when that level is met either.

If all the engine hardware is stock, then the limit is around 16psi in relatively cold weather running 93+ octane (US) / 98 octane (EU).

Otherwise (for everyday driving) the safe limit would be 14-15psi (a tad above 1bar).

When I chip the cars with B230FK and FT engines, I always set the boost at 1bar (14.5psi).

[jigab]

When I chip the cars with B230FK and FT engines, I always set the boost at 1bar (14.5psi).

i hope i have alot more boost in my system for my "960 killer 745 " next year :)

jimmy

[frpe82]

i hope i have alot more boost in my system for my "960 killer 745 " next year :)

jimmy
Don't you worry. You will beat me in the quarter mile.

[jigab]

would be funny if i took you after a curve or 2 .... but you cant have it all

[krad]

I have a question about EZK in 940 Saloon (944) - 2.3 Turbo 08.90-07.94 165 B230FT or 940 Estate (945) - 2.3 Turbo 08.90-07.94 165 B230FT. What type of EZK they have ? On the first page of this thread you list only ECU for these models. Or maybe ECU itself is responsible for ignition timing ? I'm planning swap from B230K to B230FT from one of those models to my '89 760. And of course after I'll have stage 0 in order I'm going to chip it ;)

[frpe82]

I have a question about EZK in 940 Saloon (944) - 2.3 Turbo 08.90-07.94 165 B230FT or 940 Estate (945) - 2.3 Turbo 08.90-07.94 165 B230FT. What type of EZK they have ? On the first page of this thread you list only ECU for these models. Or maybe ECU itself is responsible for ignition timing ? I'm planning swap from B230K to B230FT from one of those models to my '89 760. And of course after I'll have stage 0 in order I'm going to chip it ;)
The reason the EZK box is not listed for some models is because they are not chippable in 95% of all cases. Only the chippable EZK's are listed there.

You have a 148 or 149 EZK (most likely a 148).

To get them chippable, use blabla's modification kit for the EZK. That will add a daughterboard and a chip socket to the EZK.

[740tankDriver]

Fred; what flow dynamics of exhaust manifold are prefferable in conjuction with b230+16vt chips? i think the turbo to be used is an 18t.

[frpe82]

Fred; what flow dynamics of exhaust manifold are prefferable in conjuction with b230+16vt chips? i think the turbo to be used is an 18t.
B204FT/GT exhaust manifold or custom header. But that doesn't say much, since those are really the only options for the 16v head.

Do not use something like a 90+ with an adaptor plate unless you plan on running pretty low boost.

[740tankDriver]

B204FT/GT exhaust manifold or custom header. But that doesn't say much, since those are really the only options for the 16v head.

Do not use something like a 90+ with an adaptor plate unless you plan on running pretty low boost.

that's the point/

is it a principle of: less backpressure is THE rule of thumb? i'm thinking of keeping the runner length to a minimum but the tubing id 2" MIN, after that it's the turbine housing intake channel; whether or not to port.

was there any particular manfold in mind withe the chips?

[yamahapro]

would 79lb injectors be too much with a 3" mas?

[frpe82]

that's the point/

is it a principle of: less backpressure is THE rule of thumb?
Yes. Eliminating backpressure is really the only key to good performance when it comes to pre-turbo piping on these engines.

i'm thinking of keeping the runner length to a minimum but the tubing id 2" MIN, after that it's the turbine housing intake channel; whether or not to port.

was there any particular manfold in mind withe the chips?
At least a B204FT manifold, but preferrably a custom manifold.

[frpe82]

would 79lb injectors be too much with a 3" mas?
Yes.

The match for a 012 AMM is ~40lb/hr. Between 42-50lb/hr is usually what I would recommend.

The car would be able to handle up to 60-ish lb/hr reliably when chipped.

[drturbo]

I have a 939 ECU that is already chipped with Fred's chips.
My car is a '94 945Ti with the 954 ECU.
Can I use the 939 in place of the 954, or should I remove the Fred's chip from the 939 ECU and install it in the 954 ECU?

[sbabbs]

Either 954 or 939 should work with Fred's chip in it in your car.

[swedishiron.com]

Yippee!
It was actually me posting on drturbo's account.
Car in question has EGR and electric fan, so I wanted to make sure it would work. Not so concerned about the EGR working/CEL. But I do want that electric fan to work!

[plantationwalrus]

What's up with Fred not having an account anymore?

[sbabbs]

Yeah Fred closed his account here, correct. At least he didn't go back and delete all his posts and helpfull info like some might have done... He might have gotten rubbed the wrong way, raw I think they call it. You can email him, he's still doing the same stuff as far as I know.

[jay f.]

Yeah Fred closed his account here, correct. At least he didn't go back and delete all his posts and helpfull info like some might have done... He might have gotten rubbed the wrong way, raw I think they call it. You can email him, he's still doing the same stuff as far as I know.

do you know what his email is by chance?

[klr142]

You can possibly contact him through their website: http://hi-tuning.com/index.php?lang=en