My megasquirt

[dbh86]

OK. I'm sortof confused about what's going on right now.

My setup:

MSnS-e v2.2 29t
Triggering off of a Hall sensor
Greentops with resistors

'89 B230FT without the turbo
Greentops are hooked up, 5th cold-start injector is connected to fuel but not electricity.

The car runs decently well with the trigger angle set at 58.

My idle however sucks horribly.
With the map(top map) I got from John, I have AFR's between 8 and 10 at idle.
With a few modifications to the map, I can get my AFR's between 11 and 12.5 at idle.

http://forums.turbobricks.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2761&stc=1&d=1171856457

[MrBill]

whats your base timing and stuff?

[dbh86]

Well seeing as how the crank pulley has rotated itself around, I can't be too exact. The ignition timing is pretty close, no more than 10* off. Also, I've played with the timing and it doesn't really make the idle any better, mostly just worse.

[Billiam500]

I'd try blocking off the fuel to the 5th injector. When I MSed my 142 (djet- 4 injectors and 1 small cold start) I just left the fuel line on 5th without power thinking that it would stay closed, but it definitely didn't.

[Hank Scorpio]

+/- 10* is a lot. You should be able to lean it out more than that too. Good advice on the 5th injector.

[The Aspirator]

What's your req_fuel? Since I'm running CFI injectors I would expect my map to be much richer than you need. My req_fuel is 8.0, you can go into the Basic Settings/Fuel VE table 1/tools/VE specific/Reset req_fuel. Set yours to 12.3, then it'll change all my VE numbers to something more reasonable for your setup (30 in the bottom left to 83 in the top right).

Get it to idle at 13.5 doing whatever you need to do to the fuel table to make that happen. Also to verify that the ignition is doing it's thing properly you can just set the engine at TDC (stick a skinny scewdriver into the #1 spark plug hole and gently rotate engine with a ratchet till you feel it the piston top out). Take a look at your plastic timing cover and find the 0* mark, then just use a white or silver marker to make a new line on your crank pulley. Then hit it with a timing light.

Get it to idle with about 20* of ignition timing, or whatever pulls the most vacuum and is the smoothest.

Let us know how it goes!

John

[740ATL]

does it even run at an AFR of 8-10 at idle? :)

Try setting your 20-30/500-1000 bins all to 34 (just guessing based on the difference going from the top map to the bottom map made). This should get you to the 13.5 that John mentioned, and may make it a bit more stable.

[wildmanben]

You're reading those AFRs with a wideband, right?

[dbh86]

Yeah, it barely runs at 8 AFR, but it makes my clothes smell like gas. :(

And these measurments are taken with an LC1.

And I'm pretty confident the timing is right, I was just saying it was one of the things I played with.

I've had suspicions of the 5th injector screwing it all up. Hopefully this thing will be done soon. Thanks for confirming my ideas.


Also, 2 more questions:

If my crank pulley has rotated on the rubber so that it doesn't align with the timing marks, how can I go about checking timing with a timing light?

I recently acquired an underdrive pulley, can I make a mark on there that correstponds to the 0* mark on the plastic cover when the motor is at TDC, or would that not be lined up correctly?

[MrBill]

stick a screwdriver in cylinder #1, dont jab it in there or anything.
Turn the crank till the cylinder goes all the way up, and starts to move back, move it all the way up.

THEN look at the notch on your timing cover, look where 0 is, and take some whiteout, paint, whatever is visable, and paint it on there (the wheel).

Id reccomend 10, 20, and 30 also.

[Hank Scorpio]

you know you could lean it out at an idle ;-)

IF your SURE your timing is working correctly, play with your reqfuel settings.

[dbh86]

It gets all crazy if I lean it out at idle, because then I have to have a hole in the map at idle. The rest of the map works great once I get away from the idle.

[740ATL]

It gets all crazy if I lean it out at idle, because then I have to have a hole in the map at idle. The rest of the map works great once I get away from the idle.

you sure your wideband is working correctly?

[dbh86]

Yes, the WB works great. I've completley recalibrated it several different times before I found out that it doesn't like much less than 12V.

[740ATL]

didja try setting the 20-30 500-1000 bins all to the same number? something like 35 or 38... ?

[dbh86]

No I didn't try to do that, I'm pretty sure now that the 5th injector is screwing everything up and making it almost completely untunable.

[benflynn]

even if the 5th inj is opening, it could be tuned around, all the idle bins needs to be the same to keep it from searching for an idle, map is a little screwwy to me, what is that req fuel? map looks way rich to me, green tops 4simu squirts should be like 12.8

[dbh86]

didja try setting the 20-30 500-1000 bins all to the same number? something like 35 or 38... ?

I removed the coldstar injector and sealed everything up.

I went and made a map filled with 25's and the car idles great. So after doing this, I replaced the idle portion of john's original map with the 25's to get it to idle. So now i have this huge dip for idle and everything around idle is in the 50's or higher.

So at this point, i'm thinking that somethings wrong with my injectors. If I don't make the map all weird, I can't get the car to idle and/or rev up on any of the maps that I've gotten from other people.

[wildmanben]

Is mapdot turned on? If so, clear all of the acceleration enrichments.

-Ben

[dbh86]

Is mapdot turned on? If so, clear all of the acceleration enrichments.

-Ben

Accel enrichments are turned off by setting it to mapdot(which has all the enrichments at 0 and a threshold of 100kPa/s).

I'm making very slow and small changes to the throttle and I watch as it goes lean and dies.

[740ATL]

post your msq file.

[dbh86]

mostrecent.msq (http://people.tamu.edu/~dbh86/mostrecent.msq)

That's it.

I think there's something wrong with my fuel delivery. I'm just not sure where to start.

[The Aspirator]

Under Constants, set Injector Staging to "Alternating". Try just that, see if it makes a change.

If it's still silly rich then leave it at Alternating, go into Basic Settings, Fuel VE Table 1, Tools, VE Specific, Reset ReqFuel. Type in current = 5.5, new = 12.8. That will scale your whole map so that you'll get your 28ve idle bins, but the whole map will also be similarly scaled. Hopefully it'll drive alright like that. Everything else looks fine (cause it's pretty much my map :)).

John

[740ATL]

Ditto to what John said.

Also, I noticed the 55-70/1000-1500 ve/rpm bins set to the 33ish range... is that where you're actually idling? That seems darn high if so... I'd like to see you down in the 35-40kpa range.

Your open loop mode is set for 0kpa/0TPSadc...

try turning off your afr targets right now... as well as the over run mode.

and... you wide band switch point in EGO is 2.7v... why not 2.5v?

Lastly, your cranking ms seem a bit high as well as your afterstart enrichments... I only run 10 seconds of afterstart enrichment... you're at 30.

Dunno if any or all make a difference.

Mike

[dbh86]

Under Constants, set Injector Staging to "Alternating". Try just that, see if it makes a change.

John

All 4 injectors are wired into 1 wire though, so that won't have any effect. Correct me if i'm wrong.

The cranking pulsewidth works pretty well.

I went and turned off AFR targets and overrun.

I can get a decent idle at around 1100? But the vacuum isn't very high. I have an elbow and then a filter attached to the intake manifold, but that's it. It's a B230 intake manifold. Should I adjust the screw to close the TB more?

Thanks for the help, hopefully I can get some gas tommorrow to start trying this new stuff out.


-Daniel

[The Aspirator]

Agreed with Mike, especially at 1100rpm you should be pulling like 28-35kpa with the right tune, keep that in mind when you start nailing things down.

Humm, all injectors going to the same wire, you might be right... Still, can't hurt! :-P

[dbh86]

So what should I play with the idle screw on the TB to get the idle lower? Or what?

[740ATL]

The idle screw is only designed to let in more air... not fuel. I would leave it alone and adjust the VE bins to bring the kpa back down to the lowest you can get and still idle smoothly.

My car idles smoothest at a 35ish kpa at around 13.5-13.7afr. kpa climbs to 44 when I try to get it to idle at 14.7 or leaner.

[dbh86]

Ok, with this .msq, fresh spark plugs, and some gas it's somewhat driveable.

Here is an idle log and the msq i was using for that log

How do you get 35kpa????

mostrecent.msq (http://people.tamu.edu/~dbh86/mostrecent.msq)

idle1.xls (http://people.tamu.edu/~dbh86/idle1.xls)

[dbh86]

Oh yeah, one more thing. John, for your spark map it's at like 20-24 for where I'm idling. Is that the actual degrees BTDC? Or do you have your trigger angle set so that it's at 12 at idle?

In the log and msq you will see that I used idle advance to get it to 12* timing (which is actually 12* on the motor).

[dbh86]

I would just like to say that I am an idiot. Thank you.

I had the hose for the MAP sensor hooked up to the wrong port on the manifold and thusly it wasn't really reading after the TB.

Thanks for the help.

[BB-Q]

I would just like to say that I am an idiot. Thank you.

I had the hose for the MAP sensor hooked up to the wrong port on the manifold and thusly it wasn't really reading after the TB.

Thanks for the help.

I fully sympathise, having had to make similar posts myself. :-P

[wildmanben]

Glad to see you finally got it figured out! My MAP sensor hose popped itself off once and that certainly led to some confusion.

[dbh86]

My question about the spark angle still stands...

[The Aspirator]

Hahaha, okay so now with the proper MAP sensor spot, what are you idling at? Cause yeah at 66kpa like in that log, that's not sucking alot at all. I'm sure it's way better now.

I'd say forget about using Idle Advance for now, I've never used it. Just play with the map, don't be afraid to screw it all up just so long as you're actually making a positive difference. The timing that my ignition map reads is the actual timing BTDC that the engine is seeing, so yes I'm idling at 20-25*. I've found that more advance pulls alot more vacuum at idle, so have alot of other guys, and it just idles way better at 22* than it does at 12*. It seems to idle faster and smoother, enough so that I can actually turn down the idle a bit. So mess with your map, instead of having a single big hole, smooth out the bins around it so that they match.

You can leave it idling at 1100rpm, doesn't matter. It'll be better for tuning purposes to leave it there rather than trying to get it to be perfect at 800 or 600rpm, if you do that your cold idle will be horrible.

I also noticed that you jacked your ReqFuel WAY up, and took your map down a bit. That's good cause you're getting closer to the AFR's that you need, but it is sort of handy to be using the proper ReqFuel for those injectors, so that when you swap to bigger injectors you only have to change the ReqFuel number and you can just use the calculator.

Also look into using VexMe, that might cure all your tuning problems.

John