why does my car make this HORRIBLE noise and fail to crank 90% of the time

[PetesDustyVolvo]

http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=2j4sqqw

I'm at my wits end. I just put a crack in my windshield and smashed my steering wheel with my elbow. No matter what I try it just keeps doing this **** randomly. I have messed with every setting. It just hates cranking.

Whats really horrible is that cold starts used to be great and hot starts were sort of problematic. Now, hot starts are perfect and I can't get it to cold start!

Another thing that really pisses me off is that the spark advance gauge says "4" when cranking. Well thats great except I don't have a "4" ANYWHERE in ANY of my settings. Trigger return / time based, it doesn't matter. I'm gonna burn it to the ground and call the fire department.


Of course, it runs GREAT once it starts. It has no other problems really.

**** it i'm just gonna go get the gasoline, point me towards the nearest beat down toyota truck PLEASE

[PetesDustyVolvo]

21 min. bump

[psy]

is it me or does something sound likes it just dropping down ever few seconds of crank?

[MrBill]

can you look at your flywheel and see if there are any bad teeth?
holy hell thats a noise man

[PetesDustyVolvo]

flex plate is totally irrelevant

hall sensor rpm signal

ok well the noise goes away when I unplug the coil. So i'm pretty sure the problem is that its getting the wrong spark advance during cranking...

[dbh86]

can you post your msq?

[PetesDustyVolvo]

msq


I wish someone could explain to me why the MS box decides to use 4 degrees of spark advance?

[MrBill]

oh lol that noise is something MS related
lol megasquirt forum, i suck
good luck

[benflynn]

ok, i have had this problem, and it was a stinker

for some reason i had to keep changing my trigger angle, over and over i had to give it more advance, ended up being a spun timing gear on the crank, i found out when the pully came off, no prob though, just had to swapp the gear, wait 2 weeks, and swapp it again after the replacement spun, no problems since

pre ms i had a similar problem of ghost timing changes, ended up being a broken roter, turning on the dizzy shaft

[945ti]

Sounds like your timing is waaay out. The compression sounds fairly normal, so I'd guess the timing belt is on just fine. Wouldn't hurt to check though. It sounds like an engine that is trying to run backwards every once in a while and glitching to odd timing intervals once in a while. John's (The Aspirator's) car used to do this once in a while on MS a very long time ago.
I've got an engine to make sounds like that with the spark timing a mile out.

[PetesDustyVolvo]

Sounds like your timing is waaay out. The compression sounds fairly normal, so I'd guess the timing belt is on just fine. Wouldn't hurt to check though. It sounds like an engine that is trying to run backwards every once in a while and glitching to odd timing intervals once in a while. John's (The Aspirator's) car used to do this once in a while on MS a very long time ago.
I've got an engine to make sounds like that with the spark timing a mile out.

I'm wondering if my hall sensor signal is too dodgy for 200 rpms

and yeah, it runs great once it starts, so the belt is fine

[945ti]

I'm wondering if my hall sensor signal is too dodgy for 200 rpms

and yeah, it runs great once it starts, so the belt is fine

My ear for starters is lousy these days. That sounds a good deal faster than 200rpm, but maybe I'm losing it.

Anyway, LH-jet 2.2 will dump quite a lot of fuel if you have very slow cranking happening. Basically, it will wait a bit to fully shut the injectors off, so as you crank it slow enough it will dump really quite a lot of fuel per pulse, which can flood the engine.

This sounds 100% timing related though. Try taking a junk dizzy and rotating it by hand and see what your spark angle reads and see if you can reproduce the glitch?

[Boris740]

Your trigger angle is 3 degrees. Mine is 54
Your req fuel is 11.6. Mine is 6.2

Edit: Forget about the req fuel difference. I have bigger injectors.

[dbh86]

Your trigger angle is 3 degrees. Mine is 54


+1

Mine is 58

[The Aspirator]

Mine's 62. I do remember back in the day when I had a super low trigger angle like that, I think I had the same problems. Soooo, reset your trigger angle buddy. Wait, you got a head mount dizzy? Bah, 700's.... Wait! Duh, now I remember you telling me that you swapped to a block mount.

Get it to TDC, point the rotor exactly at #1 pin in the cap by rotating the dizzy (there should be a little notch in the top of the housing, just clockwise of the black plug), and then see what your actual timing is with a timing light. Set your fixed timing to 15 or 20*, and it should show that on the timing cover. If not, screw with your trigger angle till you get it right. It's better to have the rotor fire exactly at #1 at TDC and to mess with your trigger angle than to rotate the dizzy alot to compensate. You probably know all this already, but it can't hurt to say it again for the noobs out there.

But yeah, I used to have a very similar problem, and memory tells me that it was a low trigger angle which caused it. Even though the timing light still read right at the time.

Also why do you have dwell settings hooked up? Mine just runs "fixed duty" and 75%, and I'm using a Snaab 139 ignition module.

[benflynn]

my trigger is 8

when the gear turned it was only hard to start, ran ok other than

[PetesDustyVolvo]

Also why do you have dwell settings hooked up? Mine just runs "fixed duty" and 75%, and I'm using a Snaab 139 ignition module.


I dunno why the dwell control is set up like that. I have a 124 module so if my memory is good (its not) then it shouldn't matter...

+1

Mine is 58

Your trigger angle is 3 degrees. Mine is 54

You guys say to just "change" my trigger angle. How does that work? When I have a TA of 3*, 0* in Megatune results in 0* on the crank. Anything else does not. Thats how its supposed to work, right?

my trigger is 8

when the gear turned it was only hard to start, ran ok other than


This was the sprocket on the crank?

[linuxman51]

RETARD your cranking timing. its advanced.

[dbh86]

You guys say to just "change" my trigger angle. How does that work? When I have a TA of 3*, 0* in Megatune results in 0* on the crank. Anything else does not. Thats how its supposed to work, right?


Are you sure the crank pulley hasn't rotated on the dampening rubber? I don't trust my crank pulley now, and I was able to get timing pretty close with just the cam marks.

Check to see that if the alignment marks on the cam and cover behind it line up at 0 in megatune.

[linuxman51]

hm yeah good call on the crank pulley. get a new one or switch to a crank trigger setup that way you dont have to rely on the dampener up front, the TA is the same across the board.

[PetesDustyVolvo]

RETARD your cranking timing. its advanced.


Changing the cranking timing setting does nothing for me. BELIEVE me I tried that :)

I'm trying reflashing right now

[Hank Scorpio]

RETARD your cranking timing. its advanced.

**** load of timing at cranking will absolutely make it difficult to crank over.

[PetesDustyVolvo]

**** load of timing at cranking will absolutely make it difficult to crank over.

Yeah the thing is the "cranking advance" setting does not do anything.

[linuxman51]

Yeah the thing is the "cranking advance" setting does not do anything.

yeah you're wrong. its gotta be set to time based.

[PetesDustyVolvo]

yeah you're wrong. its gotta be set to time based.

I have tried that. No matter what i do it just keeps saying "4" in the advance gauge in megatune

i've tried everything from -5 to 10... just keeps saying 4

[benflynn]

what about the advance map for the crancking cell, or make a cell, the gear was on the crank, eventualy fell off before i figured it out

the head dizzy act weird w/trigger, sometimes like 15 might not work at all but 14 and 16 would be fine, maybe new code fixed the oddness, been a while since i have had trigger problems, i throw in #s until it crancks and go w/the light

[The Aspirator]

You guys say to just "change" my trigger angle. How does that work? When I have a TA of 3*, 0* in Megatune results in 0* on the crank. Anything else does not. Thats how its supposed to work, right?How can you idle at 0*? I've never tried it, I just always set the fixed to 20 whenever I'm messing with it. Anyways, to change your trigger angle you have to mess with the dizzy rotation, like I said in my original post ;-).

[PetesDustyVolvo]

ok well

cam had skipped a tooth, intermediate gear had skipped two teeth... runs PERFECT now... I couldn't be happier

[linuxman51]

sounds like you've still got a jacked up trigger angle. you might want to address that.

[PetesDustyVolvo]

sounds like you've still got a jacked up trigger angle. you might want to address that.


My TA is 3. When I set fixed angle to 15, I see 15 on the timing marks.

[benflynn]

good, i had a feeling the cam was out of sync
and i feel your weird trigger pain, but it works so keep on pimpin

[The Aspirator]

Glad that you figured things out! :) But I still want to know, where is your rotor pointing at TDC?

[benflynn]

aspirator-do you use a head dizz?

[PetesDustyVolvo]

Glad that you figured things out! :) But I still want to know, where is your rotor pointing at TDC?


It basically points towards the passenger side headlight... towards #1

[ThePOWERtoRULE]

ok well

cam had skipped a tooth, intermediate gear had skipped two teeth... runs PERFECT now... I couldn't be happier

Told you it sounded like timing... it was more that popping noise that tipped me off.
(I didn't watch the video, this is based on what I heard a couple nights ago. Thank god it fired right up when you were leaving!!)

[PetesDustyVolvo]

Told you it sounded like timing... it was more that popping noise that tipped me off.
(I didn't watch the video, this is based on what I heard a couple nights ago. Thank god it fired right up when you were leaving!!)

Haha yeah I toldya it always was fine when it was hot for some reason...

[The Aspirator]

aspirator-do you use a head dizz?Heck noes, I've got a 240, block mount all the way. Though soon I hope to do COP.