LH 2.4 is dead to me.

[linuxman51]

Yeah yeah I know, the ms guy railing 2.4 again, but I gave this an honest effort and didn't go to the great lengths that some of you guys do to get extra fuel and all that, as stock as stock can be. Slightly larger turbo, 12-13psi.
18mpg. Wtf. Slow driving, aggressive driving, casual driving, doesnt matter. Fuel economy is stuck at 18-19.
More aggravating that that, however, is the inconsistent performance. Some mornings I can warm the car up, step off in it, and the car will fly. Then next time I step off in it, its slow to spool, slow to rev. Let off, step off in it again its a little faster, off and back on, a little faster still, and eventually it gets back to where it was the first time, only to repeat the loop.

Sometimes it won't correct itself. Sometimes its faster after heat soaking. Sometimes its really hard not to rip the lh ecu out and smash it on the side of the road.

Here come the maintenance nazi's. To appease this group, as well as the few select die-hards:
1) I am not about to drop $400 on a new MAF. Esp when I get the exact same results with four different air flow meters.
2) I am not going to track down some special euro-only version of lh 2.4, between snagging a new ecu, another chip, and a new maf, I could put haltec on the damn car.

3) it has a brand new o2 sensor, newish clt, a clean maf, and properly setup tps.
Cap and rotor are decently new and genuine bosch.

The weather cutout has never gone away, i've been through all of my fuses and grounds, the harness is in good shape.
And so it shall be that I bid adieu to lh and its obnoxious short term learning curve

[Magnum TE]

word

[JohnMc]

Aye, MS and a good tune FTMFW. Open book >>> Closed box.

[thelostartof]

bout time

send me the full LH harness off the car along w/ ECU's

[MrBill]

oddly enough i am taking LH 2.4 donations right now.

[jpbturbo]

You should put K-jet on your car.

[740ATL]

You should put K-jet on your car.

Kenny-jet?

[sneakypete]

These issues are sounding more and more familiar to me. Mine still has this seizure problem (now does it at higher speeds as well) with mpgs from 17-25, regardless of city/hwy/agressive, etc. and I have thrown enough $ at it replacing the oem BS to have put an aftermarket system on it. Still not sold on MS (for other reasons than I will post here) but I'm a tad more intrigued.

I still have an uninstalled Fred chip set yet to try out and if that doesn't work, they'll be another set on fleabay along with an LH2.4 system.

Or, just a nice stock turbo wagon for some lucky soccer mom while I move on to other venues.

[RvolvoR]

youre the man who makes plun-n-play right?

[benflynn]

hehehe

[benflynn]

youre the man right?

just a man that knows the man

[gsellstr]

Welcome to my world as well. Been fighting these issues for a while, but the wonderful Cali smog laws make it a bit more of a PITA to go MS on this car than the rest of the country. If I had the cash for a different EMS I'd be all over it!

[JohnMc]

They actually peer under the dash and see what type of EFI computer you have?

PS - This late fall I have the first smog check due on my car since the MS-ing/browntop-ing/16t-ing/3 inch-ing/etc-ing. Should be interesting. I used a 3" Magnaflow cat on it. It's a dynamometer rolling test here (they follow some pre-programmed acceleration/decelleration profile). I'll probably try it one time as is just to see if it passes, because '93 cars have some fairly generous windows. Then if it flunks, I'll just turn the boost way down (maybe even prop the WG wide open), autotune to 14.7 for a while, and take it back and cross fingers.

Worst case for me is I just license the thing out of my parent's county in southern MO. Only a few counties have smog here in MO.

[gsellstr]

They don't check ECU's, but they DO verify a working CEL, and everything actually looks stock. Kinda makes me glad I can just swap the stock boxes in, turn the boost down, smog, crank the boost back up with Fred's boxes back in. Heck, it'll probably pass with the boxes in, I just didn't wanna risk it being required to go to a test only.

[linuxman51]

cel is easy, tie it in with the alternator. on when the car is not running, off when it is ;)

[benflynn]

what is cel?

[SteveMD]

Check Engine Light (CEL)

[745 TurboGreasel]

If its any comfort, you are consistently getting 1.5 MPG better than my 4x4 Suburban...
Which got 18 till the Ultra Low Power diesel came out

[JohnMc]

I think it would be pretty easy to wire up an alt output in MS to light up a CEL. I was looking into those in terms of a second, hi-speed fan control. But you can configure them with lo/hi limits on a wide range of variables. The time variable is probably available. Have the CEL turn on from 0 - 1 second or something. That way it would light up every time the MS box came on.

Edit: I checked and it just has 'CTimeH and CTimeL, whatever those are. I wonder if a simpler timer relay would work. All the CEL has to do is come on with the key, then go off, right? You've got me thinking I'll need to rig something up for mine or do the out-of-county registration thing if they test that CEL too much.

[frpe82]

They don't check ECU's, but they DO verify a working CEL, and everything actually looks stock. Kinda makes me glad I can just swap the stock boxes in, turn the boost down, smog, crank the boost back up with Fred's boxes back in. Heck, it'll probably pass with the boxes in, I just didn't wanna risk it being required to go to a test only.
The chipped ECU/EZK will give you better emission readings than the stock ECU/EZK actually...

[Roger-Dee]

Ey fred, is there a moment where lh2.4 stop trying to learn and keep the same setting ? And if the answer is no, is there any way to make it stop ? And if both answer were no, do you know how we could reduce the amount of output we lost while lh is "learning"? Like running on a fixed boost instead of a 2 stage BC, wait for the engine to reach it's normal operating temperature before getting into high boost ?!

I'm stuck with lh for awhile, I already have a pair of your chip, for sure :oogle: but what else could I do to put lh into it's best mood ?

[gsellstr]

Wow Fred, that's kinda hard for me to grasp considering there was virtually nothing coming out the tailpipe at my last smog!! 30-40ppm HC by the time the cat was warm after a long idle, 0.00 CO, and around 40-50ppm NOx. Guess next time I smog it (2 years) I'll leave them in so I don't have to drop the boost down to a measly 8psi to run on the stock boxes...

[linuxman51]

bout time

send me the full LH harness off the car along w/ ECU's

harness isn't coming off the car. pnp fool.

[frpe82]

First of all I want to say this:

I don´t want to intrude on Kenny´s thread, and I also understand his point. There is only so much you can do with LH on certain cars, and sometimes it doesn´t give consistent performance. But like I said, that is highly dependant on many factors (car, ECU, EZK, state of tune, stage of mods, climate, and a lot of other factors). I can honestly say that the latest version ECU´s are much better at giving consistent performance though (and I can´t honestly say why, because I don´t know why...). The hardware and the routines differ somewhat I guess :e-shrug:

Ey fred, is there a moment where lh2.4 stop trying to learn and keep the same setting ? And if the answer is no, is there any way to make it stop ? And if both answer were no, do you know how we could reduce the amount of output we lost while lh is "learning"? Like running on a fixed boost instead of a 2 stage BC, wait for the engine to reach it's normal operating temperature before getting into high boost ?!

I'm stuck with lh for awhile, I already have a pair of your chip, for sure :oogle: but what else could I do to put lh into it's best mood ?
LH2.4 learns a lot until it sees (or doesn´t see) a certain need for changes. It will still make small changes all the time though (called: short-term fuel trim). But at some point it will be pretty satisfied with the settings and only re-learn or change anything unless it has to.

You can actually make the car perform exactly the same all the time, and not learn or re-learn anything at all. It is definitely not good and I would never do it, ever (for obvious reasons)...

What can be done is to make the ECU always run in limp-home mode, and map the "emergency map" to suit the specific car perfectly. That way you will have a solid and unchangeable map all the time.

But that will never be done (not by me anyway). Although I know it has been done many times before, but it has ended in disastrous results when the intake temperature has gone higher than what it has been mapped for etc.

Wow Fred, that's kinda hard for me to grasp considering there was virtually nothing coming out the tailpipe at my last smog!! 30-40ppm HC by the time the cat was warm after a long idle, 0.00 CO, and around 40-50ppm NOx. Guess next time I smog it (2 years) I'll leave them in so I don't have to drop the boost down to a measly 8psi to run on the stock boxes...
Well... since you got that good results last time, the chipped boxes may not improve it much or at all. But it will not get worse, that I can promise you.