Haltech tuning question?

[str8krewzn]

got it running smoth nice but anything after 3000rpm it dies out?
and still givin spark, anyone ever have this problem?

If jam WOT dies

If i ease on to wot it kinda does better?

[benflynn]

need mmore info, but real bad acell on a lean map will bog out, try some more fuel all around for a min and see if it helps, acell is not as important on a rich map


i know nothing of haltech tho

[str8krewzn]

man it will rev up if i put it at 100% duty cycle
and idling the injecters are at 6ms

could it be i need to put the 3 bar FPR and try that?


If i put my hand infront of the TB it goes up rough but goes above 4k

If i sit there WOT it leans out and dies
If i go slowly it goes up but then around 3000-3500rpm dies out
But at 100% duty cylce for the injecters it revs higher then 3 but is jus pig f******* Rich

my tuner says could be injecters or fpr he;s not sure
he never ran into a problem like this

i have cfi last four dig 403 with a 4bar fpr
i set the computer @ 550 asuming it is 550cc injecters
anyone?

Thanks in advance for the help

[benflynn]

might be 63lbs, im not sure w/the cfis


post a map

[str8krewzn]

ill try and get it from my laptop to my Computer
he said the injecters mite be cloged or could be the regulator need to go back to a 3bar but he says he not sure
But ill get maps here soon

[benflynn]

ask pete the flow rate@4bar

[MrBill]

good to hear it got running man

[str8krewzn]

I took the injecters out and cleaned them
still does the same thing?

anyone any ideas?

[benflynn]

post a map

[Hank Scorpio]

hows the timing where your having issues?

[str8krewzn]

http://www.pbase.com/image/77560694
http://www.pbase.com/str8krewzn/image/77560710

kinda ****ty
pix

I have to look at it again but stayed between 18-20 i beleave
it weird my tuner said if he puts the injecters @ 100% duty cylce it works but jus running way to much fuel and idling at like 6 ms

Cuz everytime after about 23-25% it dies my afr goes to 16
and im still having spark and my tps is showing it is working cuz it showing me % after it starts dying, only thing i cant check is fuel pressure cuz my rail doesnt have a fitting, and im not sure wat it is my tuner beleaves its probly somthing fuel related, because it doesnt really die after he maxes the injecters out, and one time when i left the hose off the map sensor it didnt really do it , but ran super Rich

[benflynn]

if there was a fuel problem, that is consistant you should be able to tune around it, now are the bins in 5.xms? and X is rpm, Y is ? map


just up the fuel untill you get it to act kind of right, and tune from there

[str8krewzn]

he uped the fuel
but he said the injecters were AT 100% duty cycle

[Wagner]

Are you using TPS as main load against RPM?

Does the TPS give rational readings through it's sweep?

If using MAP as main load, does it's signal make sense?

Can you make a log of a run where the problem could be seen?

Does your EMS drive the fuel pump relay? Does the fuel pump stay on?

How old is(are) your fuel filter(s)?

[MrBill]

i talked to him on aim and he said when he unplugged the MAP sensor, it ran fine, seems to be either a mis-calibrated map, or simple tuning issues

[benflynn]

i doubt the inj were at 100%, i bet a basic fuel setting is off

[str8krewzn]

yea i saw the duty cylce for injecters if you set them on High you floor it it doesnt dies out but is @ 100% duty cylce

Fuel pump stays on when it dies
Still sparks when it dies
Fuel filter is a Inline fuel filter new from summit
Fuel pump is a walbro
Tps is working cuz after it dies it still shows higher %

[Wagner]

Is this a turbo car? Is it possible that something could prevent air delivery for the turbo? (like a collapsing air hose, or something else).

How is it determined that you do still get spark?

Did you start from an empty map, or did you have some sort of a starting map?

Has the engine run OK previously and did this problem arise after some modification, or have you had this problem from the beginnnig?

[str8krewzn]

Well i unpluged the hose from the TB and put my hand over it and it seems to rev up better

Its a brand new built motor

I put a timing light on each wire

[Wagner]

I don't know what to suggest then.

Double check everyting and check again i guess.

If everything is in order it should be a tuning issue. Or is it so that adjusting/tuning has no effect on where this phenomena appears?

And it runs ok and as it should below that engine speed? The car drives very normally?

When (at what rpm) does the turbo start to build up pressure?

[str8krewzn]

yea i drove it and drive fine but after you get past about 20-25% it dies

But why would it accelerate better if my had is covering the TB?

[str8krewzn]

well i havnt tryed going into boost
cuz i dont wanna blow it up cuz i cant tune it with the problem im having

[benflynn]

hold hand in front of tb, ve goes down, fuel need goes down, runs better because it is starving for fuel

is the fuel filter for efi?

[str8krewzn]

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM%2D230118&N=700+115&autoview=sku

[str8krewzn]

hold hand in front of tb, ve goes down, fuel need goes down, runs better because it is starving for fuel

is the fuel filter for efi?

So you think im runing out of fuel?

[Johann]

You have a master fuel setting with the Haltech?

6 ms sound a bit high for idle to me, appears like a wrong scale. Probably also the reason why they perform at 100% DC.

[str8krewzn]

yea but thats the only way it doesnt really bog

[benflynn]

ff looks ok, bit i think the basic fuel setings are off, or some scaler, dose it have iat in the fuel formula?

[str8krewzn]

iat?

[benflynn]

intake air temp

what are the basic fuel settings? should be some form of a scaler, multiplyer, that is wrong

tell it you have smaller injectors than you do, that should up the pulswidth

[str8krewzn]

these are the settings
Multipoint
post start temp deg c =54
post start time =60
ignition divided by =2
staging bar num (1-32) =10

Barometric pressure lock (mbar) 1013

all that is what i have under fuel settings

INJ trims
all are @ 12.5%

Throttle Pumps Settings
0RPM inc 18.0% decay 4.1%
1500RPM inc 7.8% decay 3.1%
300RPM inc 1.2% decay 0.7%

Coolant Factor 0.50 (values range from: 0.00-4.00)

[benflynn]

pm morely, he runs haltech, i have no idea what any of that means

how the hell can a tuner have a problem w/ms while tuning haltech?


i guess throttle pump means accell enrich, we usally disable acell untill we get the rest close

so one of the fuel settings must be a scaler, find out wich and increase it

[Morley]

Somethings not right at all.

Lock the timing at 10'.
6ms idle is to much, I use .92ms at 900RPM which is a lot.
Are the injectors properly timed? You are running sequential fuel, yes?
Correct MAP sensor installed and configured?
You have set it to MAP based maps and not TPS? The TPS is calibrated?
And it looks like you have activated staged injectors - are you using staged injectors?

[str8krewzn]

Im beleave the injecters i have are cfi 400s with 4bar comes out to be 550cc
Should i Enable the locked timing @ 10deg?
Im using multipoint
I beleave the Maps are from Kpa
And yes Tps is calabrated
and i can see it go up in %

[benflynn]

multi point is sequential? or not throttle body

[str8krewzn]

multipoint is all four at once

[benflynn]

And it looks like you have activated staged injectors - are you using staged injectors?

ok, so staged being 2 batches at least? maybe you can send morely a settings file

[str8krewzn]

i would love to
but im not sure how?
I mean taking pixz and sending doesnt seem to work very well
If he can tell me how to send files ill do it?

[benflynn]

you can put it on my ftp server

ftp://ftpguest:password@24.175.140.164

just copy past onto it

[str8krewzn]

well i got it saved on to my laptop but i dunno how to send it
it a e6x data file?


so i just drove it
and noticed it never will get into Boost
i mean idling is around
2.00ms iing time
and -60-63kpa and it would start happining everytime i would get down to -20 to -8kpa
and ive notice when i try giving it more gas my afr went to 14-15 then to 16 and die
it would start diying when reading 15
so to me i think im runing out of fuel ryte?
or do you guys think its somthing else?


Thanks -Chris

[benflynn]

click the link to my server, when you see the folder, right click the file and copy, and past it in the ftp server folder 'haltech'

i made the folder and gave you the write privlages

not out of fuel, but the fuel settings are wrong and it is running super lean

so -8kpa is really...92kpa i think, so it is - in vac and + once you go into boost

[str8krewzn]

Ok i think i got it to you?

[benflynn]

ok, no size or anything for the injectors, multipoint is correct, so if you change it from ignition divide from 2 to 1 it will lower you dc% in half, should richen things up nicely

the haltech 11e or 11a had a fuel scaler, but not w/yours

how did he know it was at 100%? a gauge while running?


also, baro is locked at 1050milibar, now this sounds reasonable, but i had a problem w/baro corr being off, then trying to turn it on through all my maps off, shouldn't have but it did

[dbh86]

Are you completely sure that you have the MAP sensor hooked up to the right port?

The ports over the TB don't read vacuum. This one had me when i didn't even think of checking this simple fact. You shouldn't be idling around 60 kpa, it should be lower like 35 kpa or so.

Goodluck

[str8krewzn]

map is hooked up to one of the Nipps on the Intake Mani
not the TB

[benflynn]

it reads -100 at 0kpa, 0 at 100kpa, and 100 at 200kpa, so -60 is actually 40kpa for us

[str8krewzn]

Ben or Morley or anyone have any clues of WTF is goin on?


Still doing the same thing?
tryed changing the injecter thing and throttle pumps and doesnt really help?

[MrBill]

Guys, I came down and tried to help him out today. I learned this:

Startup values are too lean, so it needs starterfluid to get going. Since it isn't megasquirt, it isn't so simple to change. I attempted to change the values with little success.

The car dies if you go WOT. Just like if the accel enrichments are off on MS, it just sputters and goes lean, really lean, modulate the throttle and it comes back to life. The tps is correctly calibrated, as is the map sensor.
Haltech's accel enrichments are different than megasquirts so I was unable to fix the problem.
Cool car though.

[Morten VJ]

Have you cheked the fuelpressure.
Sounds to me it could be the problem.

[MrBill]

Have you cheked the fuelpressure.
Sounds to me it could be the problem.

We didnt have the fitting.
What we did do is change the FPR to a 3-bar, instead of the mopar-turbo 4bar. It ran poorly and leaned out.
The pump etc works as it should though

[str8krewzn]

Thanks a bunch for coming down and helpin me out

But tamarow i will try Fuel Pressure test
but dont see how why it would be that its a walbro 255lph and inline filter
but i will try

[benflynn]

i wish i could be there

[str8krewzn]

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



i have change the fuel rail and fpr 2 times


now i put a newer style fuel rail with 3bar

and it revs FINE
#1 injecter leaks like a bitch but its fine WTF


BRB will repair injecter and test drive

[str8krewzn]

OK drives ALOT better
rich as ****
but still leans out it goes to 100% duty cylce then starts boging out @ only like 50-60% throttle is it normal to go to 100% Duty cylce at like 3-4k and 50-60% thorttle

[str8krewzn]

DAMNIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Ok so now it got warm its doing the same thing as before
DAMNIT???


SO does this mean its a Tuning thing?

[Morten VJ]

You just changed things, without messuring??
If you can't messure the fuelpressure, then remove the returnline from the fpr. Put it in a bucket and mesure the flow. Do the math and see if it it flows enough for your injektors ratings.
Better yet if you don't like math.
Make your injektors to stay open let them spray in some buckets. and see if there is any fuel coming from the return line.
And doo please messure your fuel pressure at the same time.
It could give you your answer.
And doo be careful, as fuel is higly flamable.

If it does then. you have a tuning problem.
You would never run your injektors at 100% dc, as it can and will lean the engine.
And way to mutch fuel can confuse the wb. into reading lean.

Around 85% dc. is the maximum you would like to be running.

Morten

[str8krewzn]

OK scartch that
the reason it got Worse is because i change the ignition divided by 1 back to 2
but now i changed it back to ignition divide dby 1 and starts up and runs better but still cuzt fuel but not unitil later on, like i can give it alot more gasbut still cuz me out

[benflynn]

try batch

[str8krewzn]

UMM
so how about not having a resistor???

Cuz sure dont have one and not sure if is built in?


Could this be my problem?

[MrBill]

You have an option there for pulse width modulation (i think this is what you want) in haltech, I saw it and didnt say anything assuming you had a resistor pack.

Not sure it effects drivability, but look up what it is supposed to be and plug em in

[benflynn]

rez pack just limits the voltage through, keeps from burning the inj driver from too much juice

[str8krewzn]

You just changed things, without messuring??
If you can't messure the fuelpressure, then remove the returnline from the fpr. Put it in a bucket and mesure the flow. Do the math and see if it it flows enough for your injektors ratings.
Better yet if you don't like math.
Make your injektors to stay open let them spray in some buckets. and see if there is any fuel coming from the return line.
And doo please messure your fuel pressure at the same time.
It could give you your answer.
And doo be careful, as fuel is higly flamable.

If it does then. you have a tuning problem.
You would never run your injektors at 100% dc, as it can and will lean the engine.
And way to mutch fuel can confuse the wb. into reading lean.

Around 85% dc. is the maximum you would like to be running.

Morten



Ima put a fuel pressure gauge on it tamarow and see what it does
and yea before any positive pressure i beleave injecters go 100% then the car bogs and leans out

[str8krewzn]

Well no fuel pressure readings cant find any freakin fittings
but did notice the car idles like **** my afr are 9 idling
driving its like 15% throttle is like 80-90% duty cylce and injecters are like 6ms

[MrBill]

Man, sell that haltech BS and buy megasquirt, by now you would've been running circles around 99% of this board....

[benflynn]

if it is idleing at 9, pull some fuel out of those bins

get an old fuel rail and cut it in to peices and t into it whatever you need for your gauge

[MrBill]

i bet you could pull an injector and shove a fitting up in there with the gauge.

its worth a shot
Edit: or pull the rail, and flip it upside down, so 3 of holes are plugged by injectors.
then pop the fitting

[str8krewzn]

i put a newer style rail with a nipple on it, but non of the fittings i had worked on it so ima go around a block to a shop that works on Volvos and ask them

[str8krewzn]

:pow: :pow: :pow: :pow:


Fuel hose from fuel pump to Fuel lines was riped

Fixed it now cant run cuz i guess way to rich

[n xntrx volvo]

.

[benflynn]

ok, make it ign divide by 2 again and change the map to make it idle at 14-15afr

[str8krewzn]

Ok now jus having the problem of 90PSI pushing on the injecters and am scured its goin to leak

[benflynn]

it will be fine, why 90spi?

[str8krewzn]

well before the regulator the Fuel Pressure gauge was reading 70-90Psi

[str8krewzn]

how much can stock injecters handle with a 4bar?

[str8krewzn]

im worryed bout these things leaking now

[benflynn]

should be 60psi+boost

[str8krewzn]

Jus wanna give a BIG thanks to everyone that Helped me out on this

Hopfully ill get it tuned tamarow and it will all be good

[thelostartof]

dude if you are running 80-90psi base pressure the cutout you are getting under boost is prob the pump hitting its cutout psi as in to much

[str8krewzn]

its fixed i told you yesterdai

the little rubber line from the pump to the hard line blew out

[str8krewzn]

holy **** 12psi pulls HARD

[MrBill]

holy **** 12psi pulls HARD

shame shame shame.
break that **** in man!
Glad to hear it runs, let me know when you'll be selling me that t3/t4 my man

[benflynn]

GREAT, now be easy on it, and enjoy, wait a couple of months and tell us how pimp haltech is

[str8krewzn]

Yea i know lol
but i bascily broke it in kinda when it was drivin like **** i broke the Rings in now
jus have to brake everything else in and while tuning hit redline a few times i got worryed but i have it set @ 6,000rpm ryte now im pretty easy i go into boost and jus back off im so tempted to floor it and switch gears but New motor and weak m46 two things i need to hold up for a while, im jus confused why is my clutch slipping, and thing it mite need adjusting
but so far so good and have a slight oil leak coming from around the oil filter i tihnk its were the oil cooler connects to the Adapter to the block, i i put a new o-ring were it goes to the block and no leaks around there but a little sepage from the oil cooler