Megasquirt N Spark and your Volvo.

[linuxman51]

Go away. read the newer revised edition found elsewhere in this forum.

[the poi]

Basic diagram form the MSnS group:

http://www.pbase.com/image/24059997.jpg

and MSnS Yahoo Group (most useful stuff is in the Files section)
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/megasquirtnspark/

MegaSpark info: Different box (megaSpark controls only spark), but similar to MSnS work; useful for tuning info and other sensor devices:
http://home.comcast.net/~tjhafner/SparkManual.html


thanks for the writeup and the pioneering!

[linuxman51]

....

[Anonymous]

Megasquirt N Spark and your Volvo.

Depending on what ignition module you’ve got, you may or may not have to install another pullup resistor for the signal to the module. This is still no big deal, radio shack sells a pack of 5 resistors for like $.60.
Unhook the coil wire from the distributor cap, crank the car and see if you have spark at the coil. Now go out and get a ballast resistor for the coil, as the power will no longer be regulated by the ignition ecu. Once you have a resistor on the coil, and you’ve got spark we can move along with the setup and get things on the road.

You Dont need the ballast resistor.
Because its the ignition module that regulates the voltage to the coil, not the ecu.

[linuxman51]

duely noted, but not wired up as such on my setup :) (I'll keep that in mind tho :wave: )

[the poi]

You Dont need the ballast resistor.
Because its the ignition module that regulates the voltage to the coil, not the ecu.
running with a ballast resitor, my coil got real hot... if anything, the ballast would reduce current, wouldn't it? Or was the power stage just putting out a lot of power to clear the resistance, which just dumped a lot of current through the coil?

[linuxman51]

So has anyone else gotten this to work yet or no?

[the poi]

So has anyone else gotten this to work yet or no?heh, not much motion on this thing...

don't remember if I ever told you, but after setting mine up and cranking it a few times (never started, looking back, realized it was just flooding a lot) the coil got REAL hot. Although it works now on EZK, i doubt it would last long at all on MSnS in that configuration. What's the resitance of your ballast resistor on your coil, and and did you put it on the + or - side of it? I think my resistance was just too high in total, and the power stage was trying to compensate for it with a hell of a lot of energy... am using an msd blaster coil, also something to think about, but I can't really see that being muhc about the problem...

[linuxman51]

my resistor goes on the + lead on the coil. I'll take several pics tomorrow for the benefit of humanity (& since i can 8-) ). talked to Jao for a while tonight, he got his to crank and idle but still needs fine tuning, he's hoping to get it sorted out tomorrow.

[Anonymous]

So has anyone else gotten this to work yet or no?
My system Hall sensor--- ingition module--ignitioncoil--- battery +
no resistor. This is a standart system from a 740 from 1985 in denmark.
No ignition computer just an old distributor.
The coil has a resistanse of 0,9 ohms mesured on the primary side.
Im for now just running the fuel side of Megasquirt, soon to be implementet is the spark side.

Morten

hello all
i have _finally_ got Jeremys 1991 245 230f+T running today. seems it was the simplest of things. all i have to say about that is make sure that the dizzy lock down bolt is tight enough that when it is running that the force of the wires cant turn the dizzy :roll:

J's 91 was lh 3.1 so we had to add a dizzy. to get a initial static timing i set the crank timing mark @ 15' and then lined the rotor to point directly at the mark in the dizzy housing. i entered 15' as my spark angle.

after a couple of cranks it started up with linuxmans timing map.

if your spark angle is different then what the car is actually running then you will need to do alittle adjusting. ours ended up being around 8' off.

go into the tuning screen and look at the calculated spark angle. i started at that angle an then gradually went down to 15' [28<enter>27<enter> etc] then i adjusted the timing via the dizzy to 15' on the crank.

drove it around the block a couple of times... 5psi so far :-)

one final thing that i would like to say - we swapped over the fuel side first and then after driving it for a few days we swapped over the ignition side. this will definatly cut down the number of varibles when trying to get the car running!

[linuxman51]

good deal. I'm going to take some pics of how mine is physically set up to help clarify some things (maybe...)glad to hear someone else is having success :)

[linuxman51]

hm.. hey poi, how much longer you reckon til you're gonna have some time to mess with yours?

roto re me's is pretty much off limits until the weather warms up,
I think the aspirator is going to be rolling a setup here pretty soon, I'd like to get at least one more person running with this, and then lock it finalize it and articalize it, and move on to ms & edis, which I belive I'll be installing around spring break (aaand maybe a few other things O:-) ).

[the poi]

eh, i spose i can give it all a shot next weekend. I can probably get the fuel maps just real rough, and then set up ignition to see if I can get it to work. hopefully i won't run into many problems... gonna need to track down a radio shack around here tho, i ran outta 1k resistors back in santa barbara...

[fullup1]

My car used to be LH2.0 (1984 242 DL B23F) before I had MS, so I've still got a separate ignition control unit (big, boxy unit).

I thought this might be helpful:
Bosch 0 227 100 124 ignition module schematic
http://www.motec.com.au/drawings/m12.pdf

Okay, so here's what I've got as far as supplies are concerned:
1.Bosch 0 227 100 124 ignition module (6 pins)
2.Distributor plug harness
3.Car currently running MS v2.2
4.1K resistor 1/2 Watt
5.10K resistor
6.2.2K resistor (possibly)

So what I'm going to have to do for hardware is the following:
1.Find a 5V source on the MS board (I found pin 8 from JP1 has +5V)
2.Wire 5V source into power wire from distributor plug harness
3.Wire ground wire from distributor plug harness to ground
4.Wire signal wire from distributor plug harness to MS pin 24
4.Jumper pin 28 to pin 24 on the MS board with a 10K resistor
5.Wire pin 1 of the Bosch 124 ignition module to (-) terminal of the coil
6.Wire pin 2 of the Bosch 124 ignition module to ground
7.Wire pin 4 of the Bosch 124 ignition module to (+) terminal of the coil (redundant, taken care of in step 8)
8.Also wire pin 4 to ignition
9.Wire pin 5 of the Bosch 124 ignition module to MS pin 30 (or FIdle on the MS Relay Board)

For the MS board modifications (v2.2):
All of these parts already have locations on the v2.2 board.
1.Use a 1K resistor for R10
2.Jumper out the John Zener (if not already done)
3.Keep the Wing diode
4.If there are problems starting, then increase the resistance of R10 to 2.2K.

For software I'll have to:
1.Get the megasquirtnspark.s19 file from the Megasquirtnspark file section
2.Rename the file megasquirt.s19
3.Modify the .s19 file with EasyTherm for my Bosch coolant temperature sensor
4.Download the new .s19 file with EasyTherm to MS
5.Open the last .msq file I had for my car and burn it to the MS controller

Does this seem right? I've got an autocross in a week and I'm trying not to do what I did last time (swapped in low-z injectors and ruined my old Bosch ECU, even with a resistor pack...the original reason for switching to MS).

[linuxman51]

yea that sounds like its covered. dont forget to do the mods to the board.

[fullup1]

Moving along, there are 5 wires on the bosch 124 ignition module as found in 87 and later model Volvos (I think, your mileage may vary, however its something along those lines. Read further, it should remove any ambiguity)
The thick brown wire is ground, the blue wire is a constant +12v, two of the wires are the trigger and its shield, this is where you hook up the fast idle wire. The remaining wire is the trigger wire for the coil, on my car this was white with a red stripe, YMMV.

Depending on what ignition module you’ve got, you may or may not have to install another pullup resistor for the signal to the module. This is still no big deal, radio shack sells a pack of 5 resistors for like $.60.
Unhook the coil wire from the distributor cap, crank the car and see if you have spark at the coil. Now go out and get a ballast resistor for the coil, as the power will no longer be regulated by the ignition ecu. Once you have a resistor on the coil, and you’ve got spark we can move along with the setup and get things on the road.


Okay, I've gotten an rpm signal from the hall effect transistor with a few suggestions from you, Jesse, and some people on the MSnS email list. MS reads the rpm signal during cranking just fine, but there's still no spark. Jesse suggested trying to ground out the trigger wire (FIdle) during cranking and see if that produced spark...unfortunately it did not. Another person on the MSnS email list suggested putting in a pullup resistor to the trigger wire, so I put a 10K resistor from +12V ignition to the FIdle (pin 30) wire coming off the MS relay board. The weird thing about this is that it produced a spark very briefy when switching the ignition OFF quickly.

According to what I've quoted, you've got 4 wires from the ignition module:
1.trigger (the one with the shield)--> FIdle
2.trigger (no shield) --> (-) coil
3.power --> +12V constant
4.ground --> ground

And then you said there's a pullup resistor on the signal to the module, so I assume that means #1 is changed to:
1.trigger (shielded) --> pullup resistor from +12V (ignition or constant) -->
FIdle

My current setup looks like this:
1.trigger (shielded) --> FIdle
2.trigger (no shield) --> (-) coil
3.power --> +12V ignition AND (+) coil
4.ground --> ground

Could the pullup on #1 and the difference for the setup on #3 be the problem?

Thanks for all of your help.

[linuxman51]

if you got it to spark when the key turned off you're halfway there.
try inverting the output in MSnS software, you might wanna use a lower resistance (both of mine are 1K).

You're putting the pullup on the Signal wire to the ignition module, right? (the shielded wire, not the trigger wire to the coil)

[The Aspirator]

I'm setting mine up right now also.
[quote:7a358121a5]According to what I've quoted, you've got 4 wires from the ignition module:
1.trigger (the one with the shield)--> FIdle
2.trigger (no shield) --> (-) coil
3.power --> +12V constant
4.ground --> ground
[/quote:7a358121a5]
So should that #3 wire (blue wire, #4 on the ignition module) be a constant +12v or an ignition swithed 12v? In one of the wiring diagrams it shows that it should use a relay that's ignition switched. But there's so many different diagrams, they all confuse me. So far, Kenny's advice makes the most sense!
[quote:7a358121a5]My current setup looks like this:
1.trigger (shielded) --> FIdle
2.trigger (no shield) --> (-) coil
3.power --> +12V ignition AND (+) coil
4.ground --> ground
[/quote:7a358121a5]
This looks good, just throw in a 1K ohm pullup resistor in the #1 wire. #3 should be like that... I have that wire go straight from the ignition module to the coil+ (mine was blue), then ignition switched positive to the other prong on the positive side of the coil. I guess it should work. Then again my system isn't even in my car yet......

Here's a dumb question:
Does the coil produce a constant flowing spark, or pulsing?

Thanks,

John

[The Aspirator]

I will take this time to point out that it would be a good idea to run a +5v power wire off the board, so that once you drop the bomb on the ignition unit you’ll have a means to power the distributor. I used X8, you can use a DVOM to find a +5v on the board while its on.
X8 gave me 8.2volts (when the battery had 11.2). This is obviously not the one to use. The dizzy needs 5v.

In this post of yours:
http://forums.turbobricks.com/viewtopic.php?t=9275&highlight=megasquirt+ignition
You said that you used the bottom hole on JP1 (right above the label "JP1"). About an hour ago I figured out on my own that X8 doesn't give the proper voltage, and that JP1 does. Then I come back here and read about it! hahaha. The JP1 hole gave me 4.96 with the car off. That'll do!

John

[the poi]

[quote:de8be5e65c="linuxman51"]I will take this time to point out that it would be a good idea to run a +5v power wire off the board, so that once you drop the bomb on the ignition unit you’ll have a means to power the distributor. I used X8, you can use a DVOM to find a +5v on the board while its on.
X8 gave me 8.2volts (when the battery had 11.2). This is obviously not the one to use. The dizzy needs 5v.

In this post of yours:
http://forums.turbobricks.com/viewtopic.php?t=9275&highlight=megasquirt+ignition
You said that you used the bottom hole on JP1 (right above the label "JP1"). About an hour ago I figured out on my own that X8 doesn't give the proper voltage, and that JP1 does. Then I come back here and read about it! hahaha. The JP1 hole gave me 4.96 with the car off. That'll do!

John[/quote:de8be5e65c]

probably missed the boat here, but you can pull the 5v from the refrence voltage pin that goes to the TPS. saves you a pin...

[wiggin]

i know this is some serious thread resurrection ... but i have a few questions.

1. would this be pretty straightforward to hook up with my Mallory 6AL ignition as opposed to the stock volvo one?

2. is this a realistic project to convert my MS car to MSnS in say 4-5 days... if i only work on it in the evenings for a while each day or should i hold off until i have more time to tinker with it?

thanks,

[linuxman51]

depends, is the car your DD...

[wiggin]

yes, it is. im thinking its probably not the best to try and do it this week maybe.. because ive got a volvo meet on saturday i was hoping to bring it too... im just so frustrated with the pinging i want to do something.