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-   -   1973 1800ES project (https://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=186628)

pat244ti 08-25-2020 09:44 PM

Got some work done on the car today.

I think it was documented earlier in the thread, but this car was originally 105-1 Gold Metallic but was taken to Maaco shortly after purchase, where it got a very Maaco like white paint job in terms of prep and finish. Engine bay, door jambs and below all the trim are still 105-1.

I decided to spot paint the engine bay where it was primered when the battery tray and windshield lip rust was fixed, so I went to the local paint place and had them pack a spray can with 105-1.

When it was all done, it ended up a bit more copper and glossy than I would have liked, but also the original engine bay paint is close to 50 years old so with time, heat and everything it's a little worn. I am just trying to make the car a driver again. In 10 years when I get bored, maybe I'll do a full resto on the body with a proper paint job but if it passes the 10-20 foot test for a while that's cool.

https://i.imgur.com/dxjWa7kl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/PPqRs3kl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/mapI2tNl.jpg

Now that I have the engine bay painted enough, the engine is also ready to go in.

https://i.imgur.com/692N3Eyl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/xBHdDkyl.jpg

I had a 940T oil cooler on my backup block for the rally and lemons cars. Neither of those cars use this style cooler.

I might turbo the car at some point in time so I figured it would not hurt to add it now. Also it puts the oil filter in an easy spot. Alternator is going on the passenger side.

https://i.imgur.com/7CEEXWbl.jpg

And finally, here's a shot of the ES and it's grandson. Also, my stash of working-on-car drinks and snacks.
https://i.imgur.com/hEPWFgRl.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by brickcupra (Post 6107896)
OMG!!!! Os sad to hear all these sad news in Cal. Praying that all this stuff plus covid takes a slower pace so we Tbrickers and the rest of the world can return to a certain new normal
Please be safe !!!
Greetings from the Windy City
DZ:oops::omg:

The conditions have become much, much more favorable the past few days. They are up to 20% containment

The mountains still got hit pretty good, but they did not get engulfed and encroach on the town like the nightmare scenario that seemed to be unfolding last week with the heat and wind conditions.

But the winds have shifted and are blowing all the smoke to the bay area [sorry guys] and we actually have some breathable air here for the first time in almost a week.

Vol242vo 08-25-2020 11:25 PM

Looking great, love the last picture.

pat244ti 08-29-2020 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vol242vo (Post 6108589)
Looking great, love the last picture.

Thanks. Have not really posted many pictures of the C30, than again it's not really worthy of a project thread since it's just got bolt ons.

https://i.imgur.com/nvKJZNrl.jpg

I tried to get the engine mounted in place yesterday in the ES

Unfortunately, I was under the impression the Yoshifab HD rubber mounts would work in the 1800 with his brackets but the pad on the crossmember where they rest is too small. I'll just run 164 motor mounts I guess.

The left rear of the oil pan is also too close for comfort to the lower control arm. I am going to drop the lower control arm today and give that corner a few careful whacks.

I realized all this after I had got the engine in most of the way. I put the engine and transmission in at the same time, which is a pretty cumbersome task on an 1800 but doable if you are patient and have a load leveler. For now, it's at least resting on some old 240 motor mounts I hacked the studs off of so it has some support.

https://i.imgur.com/WVBymE3l.jpg?1

pat244ti 08-30-2020 12:53 PM

Going over the hill today to grab 164 mounts from iRollmotors, as well as other goodies I will need that are missing from the car like C-pillar trim as well as new window channel felt.

Yesterday I took the engine out enough to give the oil pan the most gentle, yet firm whacks to give it enough clearance.

https://i.imgur.com/iPcHYBil.jpg

I got the engine mount brackets to "rest" on some extra 240 motor mounts I cut the offset studs off of so I could play around with intake manifold clearance, which is the biggest hurdle when doing an OHC engine swap on an 1800 due to the factory brake booster and MC setup taking up tons of space.

A B230 intake will not work due to the throttle body sticking out right into the booster. I do recall a guy overcoming that by relocating the throttle body on the bottom of the manifold on his turbo 1800.

I went to the junkyard recently and did some measuring from the crankshaft center line to the edge of the intake, and a B21FT intake would work. But it probably would not flow very well and I did not really feel like shelling out the dough for one.

However, despite appearing like it might be physically too large, a B21F intake (courtesy of Harland, thank you) is a tight fit but it is totally doable with some minor tweaking to the throttle cable retainer and taking a grinder to a few ribs/bumps on the edge of the plenum where it gets pretty close to the brake booster.

https://i.imgur.com/NrOmioKl.jpg

There's unfortunately no way a stock exhaust manifold would work. It runs right into the control arm.

https://i.imgur.com/e5iBMF3l.jpg

So I will need a custom header. I thought about it last night and instead of farming it out to one of my buddies that can weld, I am going to finally buy a welder and take it as an opportunity to teach myself how to do it. I've only been screwing with cars now for 18 years so I think it is finally time, and a non weight bearing [meaning it wont have a turbo sitting on it] exhaust header would be a good start.

122power 08-31-2020 10:59 AM

Hey pm alfa vs volvo. He put a b23 in a 1800 and in the lemons amazon. Fit pretty decent from what i remember and have the stock manifolds. He made his own mounts though to put the engine in there.

pat244ti 08-31-2020 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 122power (Post 6109836)
Hey pm alfa vs volvo. He put a b23 in a 1800 and in the lemons amazon. Fit pretty decent from what i remember and have the stock manifolds. He made his own mounts though to put the engine in there.

I know the 122 got a OHC swap but I am pretty sure their 1800 always had a B18 or B20.

As far as the exhaust manifold goes for the ES, I may have found a brand new $100 solution.....if it works it will be kind of hilarious. Scratch that - it will be absolutely hillarious

mooseturb 08-31-2020 12:59 PM

Have you considered using a thinner booster to obtain better clearance for the intake?

Could you post a picture from the side overlooking the booster and intake to show the minimal clearance there is now?

I'm interested since I am installing a b230ft upright in a 1800ES and planning on a thinner booster and would like to know how thin it needs to be. The body is on the rotisserie and I haven't got to engine install stage yet.
Thanks

pat244ti 08-31-2020 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooseturb (Post 6109874)
Have you considered using a thinner booster to obtain better clearance for the intake?

Could you post a picture from the side overlooking the booster and intake to show the minimal clearance there is now?

I'm interested since I am installing a b230ft upright in a 1800ES and planning on a thinner booster and would like to know how thin it needs to be. The body is on the rotisserie and I haven't got to engine install stage yet.
Thanks

From a little earlier in the thread - this is what a B21F intake looks like with the engine upright. You can see where the booster mounts up right behind it

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n...psq8wcadpy.jpg

I don't think you will have any way of fitting any booster in the standard location if you go upright, not without a highly custom intake manifold. When I was looking at going upright I was exploring either a remote booster or a hydroboost setup.

122power 08-31-2020 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pat244ti (Post 6109873)
I know the 122 got a OHC swap but I am pretty sure their 1800 always had a B18 or B20.

As far as the exhaust manifold goes for the ES, I may have found a brand new $100 solution.....if it works it will be kind of hilarious. Scratch that - it will be absolutely hillarious

It did but he did a swap on an 1800 waaay back he told me. The 122s lemons has a b230 in it now.

mooseturb 08-31-2020 03:53 PM

What would be the distance from the face of the booster mount to the back side of the intake?

The runners on the intake could be shortened or as you say a custom plenum made.

pat244ti 09-01-2020 01:40 AM

Right now it has 1/4 of an inch, but the engine is not in it's final spot yet and once the manifold gets a little reworked it should have 3/4 to an inch.

https://yoshifab.com/store/pre-folde...ke-plenum.html

Slapping that on further down the b21f runners would definitely help with clearance issues, seen it done a few times. It would be cool if someone with a KL racing intake on their car could measure from the crank center to the edge of the intake.

vintagewrench 09-01-2020 08:39 AM

For what its worth on disc front, drum rear 120/1800 cars they can be used without a booster. I took it off of my '67 1800s for weight loss, which has a dual master two years ago and have logged 10k road miles and 900+ road racing miles with the VSCCA. At the same time Green Stuff pads were installed and it stops fine, but needs a higher pedal effort.

R32RennSport recently installed Porterfield pads in his 120 w/o a booster on Ian at High Performance Volvo recommendation and also reports good results.

The original master cylinder is 7/8" but the earlier models made before Girling boosters came into use had 1" bore units for higher pressure. I'm going to install a dual 1" Wildwood unit over the off season because I want more braking with less effort on the road. Although on the track the brakes work excellent as is.

I don't know how well this would work on the later all disc brake cars, but it might be worth taking a look at?

pat244ti 09-01-2020 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagewrench (Post 6110045)
For what its worth on disc front, drum rear 120/1800 cars they can be used without a booster. I took it off of my '67 1800s for weight loss, which has a dual master two years ago and have logged 10k road miles and 900+ road racing miles with the VSCCA. At the same time Green Stuff pads were installed and it stops fine, but needs a higher pedal effort.

R32RennSport recently installed Porterfield pads in his 120 w/o a booster on Ian at High Performance Volvo recommendation and also reports good results.

The original master cylinder is 7/8" but the earlier models made before Girling boosters came into use had 1" bore units for higher pressure. I'm going to install a dual 1" Wildwood unit over the off season because I want more braking with less effort on the road. Although on the track the brakes work excellent as is.

I don't know how well this would work on the later all disc brake cars, but it might be worth taking a look at?

I can do fine without power brakes - my rally car runs Porterfield R4's with no booster and on stage or in traffic I don't have much of an issue with it.

The biggest thing stopping me from getting rid of it on the ES is the fact I want my 70 year old parents to feel comfortable enough to hop in and drive it anytime. They have let me store the car in the garage for much of the past 10 years and they don't mind keeping it there, they just both want to drive it someday.

vintagewrench 09-01-2020 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pat244ti (Post 6110117)
I can do fine without power brakes - my rally car runs Porterfield R4's with no booster and on stage or in traffic I don't have much of an issue with it.

The biggest thing stopping me from getting rid of it on the ES is the fact I want my 70 year old parents to feel comfortable enough to hop in and drive it anytime. They have let me store the car in the garage for much of the past 10 years and they don't mind keeping it there, they just both want to drive it someday.

Well that makes perfect sense to me. Good luck with it. Maybe it will help some of the other guys with this swap.

Were can I find photos and info about your rally car?

If you are into it, there is a lot of pre-1975 Volvo vintage road racing and rally photos and info at this Facebook group myself and a couple of my friends started earlier in the year @ https://www.facebook.com/groups/232999844689051

pat244ti 09-01-2020 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagewrench (Post 6110188)
Well that makes perfect sense to me. Good luck with it. Maybe it will help some of the other guys with this swap.

Were can I find photos and info about your rally car?

If you are into it, there is a lot of pre-1975 Volvo vintage road racing and rally photos and info at this Facebook group myself and a couple of my friends started earlier in the year @ https://www.facebook.com/groups/232999844689051

https://i.imgur.com/TGKQlit.jpg

Here's my project thread for it. I need to make an update on it, done a few things with it over the summer.

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=327882

Also, I am in that group - it's really neat but I've just been observing since my race Volvos are newer than 75 [both 83's.]

Makes me want to find a 142 to race. I still love doing Lucky Dog with friends in the 244 but I'd like to run on my own in more of a sprint style race.

122power 09-01-2020 11:40 PM

Yeah i wish lemons or lucky dog had a singles class too.
Your rally car paint scheme is killer !
Pieper insurance, can i get a quote?

pat244ti 09-02-2020 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 122power (Post 6110294)
Pieper insurance, can i get a quote?

That's my pops. I get a tire each race for that!

He does life insurance.

mocambique-amazone 09-02-2020 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagewrench (Post 6110045)
For what its worth on disc front, drum rear 120/1800 cars they can be used without a booster. I took it off of my '67 1800s for weight loss, which has a dual master two years ago and have logged 10k road miles and 900+ road racing miles with the VSCCA. At the same time Green Stuff pads were installed and it stops fine, but needs a higher pedal effort.

R32RennSport recently installed Porterfield pads in his 120 w/o a booster on Ian at High Performance Volvo recommendation and also reports good results.

The original master cylinder is 7/8" but the earlier models made before Girling boosters came into use had 1" bore units for higher pressure. I'm going to install a dual 1" Wildwood unit over the off season because I want more braking with less effort on the road. Although on the track the brakes work excellent as is.

I don't know how well this would work on the later all disc brake cars, but it might be worth taking a look at?


If you use a 1" master instead of a 7/8" master and the same power with your foot the pressure in the brake system will be lower.

Pressure: p=F/A

The higher A is, the lower will be p

The volume will be more at same level of pedal.

At same hydraulic pressure the pressure at your sole of your foot will be higher.

If you swap disc brakes to a drum system you need more volume, and pressure.

Modify the linkage at your brake pedal will be the solution

Good luck, Kay

vintagewrench 09-02-2020 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mocambique-amazone (Post 6110335)
If you use a 1" master instead of a 7/8" master and the same power with your foot the pressure in the brake system will be lower.

Pressure: p=F/A

The higher A is, the lower will be p

The volume will be more at same level of pedal.

At same hydraulic pressure the pressure at your sole of your foot will be higher.

If you swap disc brakes to a drum system you need more volume, and pressure.

Modify the linkage at your brake pedal will be the solution

Good luck, Kay

Thanks for setting the record straight turns out you are right! Just another good example of how you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet.

pat244ti 11-29-2020 12:11 AM

Things have been a little slow around here on the ES front but for good reason.

I got married in September with about 20 friends and family watching in a large grove on my client's property. Immediately went on our honeymoon for a week to the desert.

https://i.imgur.com/ghnBV8pl.jpg

Came back, moved across town from our little cabin in the woods to our new house which is on a bluff overlooking the Monterey Bay and Capitola village.

https://i.imgur.com/wJD6potl.jpg

I say new house, but it's old - really ****ing old. Oldest house in Capitola- it's so old my great great great grandfather and his friend moved the materials to build it by horse over the Santa Cruz mountains. It's been in my family 140 years now. We've been doing many improvements to it - we started by spending a few weeks ripping out the floors and painting inside.

https://i.imgur.com/213e5Dal.jpg

Did some touch up on the outside. Now that's all done and we're moved in, so we are starting on to the big part - completely redoing the yard. We are getting a dog and every place we want to adopt from requires a 5 foot fence enclosing the property, so I've started on that. Also working on landscaping everything, ripping out stupid invasive ivy and building a firepit/outdoor cooking area. If I finish and have enough room left over, I might build myself a lil half pipe to skate on.

Most importantly, going to get to work soon on making the driveway solid and once that is done we are building a 1-car garage in the back corner of the property with a small grandma unit above it.

https://i.imgur.com/AS82TKol.jpg

The F100 in that picture has also caused a slow down in ES progress. I picked it up in July and drove it maybe 50 miles over the course of the next 4 months, and despite it being cool looking and intact it bothered me that a lot of it was junk.. The electrical system was being really strange, the front end was sketchy [worn kingpins] and the brakes were pretty bad. Last week I completely rebuild whole front end on the truck including swapping to HD springs, adding a thick swaybar and swapping the front drums for a disc setup using GMC Safari AWD calipers and Dodge Ram 1500 rotors. The electrical issues were due to about a dozen different shorts I found in the melty dash and charging system wiring. I patched it up but eventually I'd like a whole new harness for it. Also rebuilt the Autolite 2100 carb and installed an HEI distributor and did some other maintenance. It's a great truck now.

I've poked and prodded the 1800 a couple times here and there. Picked up a Yoshifab modifed b21f intake from towery and it fits the slanted OHC engine in the 1800 bay like a glove, so I will be using it.

https://i.imgur.com/9RW46vcl.jpg

Probably going to finally modify the engine bracket next week so the engine will rest in it's hopefully final spot.


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