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-   -   760 5 cylinder...scratching a 10 year itch (https://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=341191)

940 16 valve 02-25-2020 08:11 PM

Overdue for an update. been plugging away. Also started a business so that's kept me busy.
Registration on the 940 ends in June, so the goal is to have it running sometime this summer.

Progress so far.
Got a 240mm clutch from southbend with T5 center
They were able to make the clutch the same thickness as stock, so no engagement height issues like I had with the 940.
My brother wants to swap his s70 from dual to single mass flywheel when do the clutch, so you can see the TTV flywheel under the clutch. Considering getting one for mine, but there is so much material taken off I wonder if it will make the already noisy T5 transmission unbearable. Still searching for a used single mass in the meantime.
Found some 5" outer diameter moog coils (Moog 8088) that were new in box for $10 locally. We'll run them and see. I think they're 260lb/in which should play well with the motion ratio or the rear arm which looks to be about .73. They're 15" long so will need cut though.
Wife's S40 had shifting issues so I got sidetracked replacing some linear solenoids.
Played with ride height and some 18's I have while I had the springs out. I think around here would be nice.
Plumbed the Idler motor and got the intake installed.
Pretty adapter plate
Picked up an ebay intercooler. had to do some trimming where the elbows are, and welded in some angle iron beside it to not lose structural integrity.

At this point I just need to get a flywheel and then I'm on the home stretch.
I found a input retainer from a s197 mustang with the 4.0 V6 and T5 transmission. Allows you to run a hydraulic slave, so I'm going to see if I can adapt that. They offer a short version of the slave (SB60317) which I will likely use.

Then it's just taking the 940 off the road to swap the driveline, and then a million little things. Progress though!

James M 02-25-2020 08:30 PM

Progress indeed!

Do you by chance have a part number on the southbend disc, or know the compressed thickness to aim for off hand?

940 16 valve 02-25-2020 10:50 PM

No part number, I just chatted with Ryan at Southbend and gave him the specs. He said he could make it 7.5mm thick (uncompressed), and that seems to match up with the stock 850r disc.

940 16 valve 03-10-2020 10:52 PM

Anybody got an 850 flywheel they would sell to help this project along?!

James M 03-10-2020 11:17 PM


Originally Posted by 940 16 valve (Post 6055094)
Anybody got an 850 flywheel they would sell to help this project along?!

I'm looking as much for you as I am for myself at this point, please help this man.
Someone as sweedespeed is selling a FW,PP, and clutch kit for 400 but then you gotta get rid of the PP and another disc

DET17 03-15-2020 09:02 AM


Originally Posted by 940 16 valve (Post 6055094)
Anybody got an 850 flywheel they would sell to help this project along?!

I might have a spare.... been hoarding for so long, I'm not sure! What's your budget?

940 16 valve 03-15-2020 11:09 PM


940 16 valve 04-09-2020 05:08 PM

Progress! Being forced to stop work has some silver linings... junkyards are still open
Went to the yard looking for a flywheel and came across a medium case BMW diff with LSD.
3.91 ratio which I think should work. Out of a 89' 735IL. Looks to have the flanges that will work with the volvo IRS halfshafts. My next question is to see if the 960 driveshaft with the CV joint at the end is compatible with the flange at the front of the diff.
In the meantime a local volvo guy Matt (Uglyduck) was kind enough to turn town my pilot bushing on his lathe, so now it will fit the RN crank bore (at about 0.825" OD)
Then one of these showed up at a local yard
And clutch is installed. Got a mounting face to pressure plate fingers depth of 3.3" (83mm) so I'm considering this slave cylinder solution

James M 04-09-2020 10:15 PM

Congrats on the flywheel, it's quite a hunt.
I forgot what it's like to work on cars in the snow, probably makes pulling parts much more fun.

I got away with a V6 TOB with some fork modification but it's not ideal, hydroponic TOB is probably a much better choice

940 16 valve 04-30-2020 10:12 AM

Seem to be finding more time to tinker lately... I think I may actually get this thing done soon!

Got distracted first doing the clutch on my brother's S70. I feel like whiteblock clutches is all I do lately!
I decided to go with my own solution to the slave cylinder.
I noticed that the S197 mustang input bearing retainer (with provision for internal slave) has a smaller internal diameter than all the other mustang retainers; so the outside diameter won't center in the adapter plate. Here you can see the slight difference in diameter between the two input retainers (stacked).
But it just so happens that it's bore on the back is the same diameter as the shoulder on this 94 input retainer. A few cuts, and you can mount the S197 retainer on the SN95 mustang retainer quite nicely. (and you have to move one bolt hole)

Just a note for any looking to do this in future:
I have a 2005 Mustang 4.0 V6 (S197) Slave, per my measurements it would almost work if you found a way to mount the S197 Input retainer directly on the transmission. (but then you have to find a way to make it center in the bore of the adapter plate)
My solution was to go with the shorter ~2010 Supercharged mustang 5.4 V8 slave which is much shorter. With that setup you have enough clearance to stack the 2 input retainers and end up with a bit to spare to allow for clutch wear (about 3mm). I think you could probably get a fem more mm if you skim the front of the input retainer.

It pains me, but initial steps toward decommissioning the turbo 16 valve 940. T5 transmission out.
Input retainers swapped, and the input shaft shimmed for 0.003" clearance per factory spec. Per my measurements the input shaft was 0.20" too long, so I took 0.25 off the front of it.
Transmission is now installed in the 760! As it sits now I have just over 3mm of extra depth that the slave can compress to allow for clutch wear. Does that sound reasonable to any who have experience with setting up a slave?

James M 04-30-2020 10:04 PM

Looks much nicer then my solution, no assbackwards bracket required
No idea about the internal slave depth, but the disc I got (copy of yours) seems like after 3mm of wear it will probably be to the rivets

Always sad to tear apart one project to build another, but some sacrifices must be made

Leon_pp 04-30-2020 11:08 PM

Beware, Ferrari wheels could be in milimeters for Michelin TRX tires (not XXX/XXR15 style tires)

240wagonguy 05-02-2020 10:18 AM

interesting. But how do you bleed the slave?

I'm curious about the shifter setup you have there too.

940 16 valve 05-02-2020 01:11 PM

Agreed, the new project rises from the ashes of the old. I guess I'm just sentimental though.
I was thinking with where the fulcrum of the pressure plate diaphragm is, 1 mm of of disc wear would probably move the fingers contacting the slave 2-3mm. Oh well, figure that out down the road.

Thanks for the heads up on the metric wheels, I guess they ditched that right before these wheels were made, but I did come across that in my research. Didnt know there was such a thing before that.

To bleed the slave I've got a stock union from the mustang (almost identical to what an S70 with internal slave uses) which has a bleed nipple. The shifter setup is one BNE was selling about 10 years ago. It needed some modification to work, but does the job now.

DET17 05-03-2020 05:26 PM


Originally Posted by 940 16 valve (Post 6075323)
The shifter setup is one BNE was selling about 10 years ago. It needed some modification to work, but does the job now.

IIRC, Ben just copied what Nathan built for his 940. When the T5's were in vogue, that would have been a valuable part to "clone". However it seems that the T5's are now passe, with folks looking to more modern 5 speeds to transplant into our old RWD Volvos.

Nice work on your slave work for the 5 cylinder..... I'll keep an eye on your progress. I've got my own 5 cylinder sitting a dollies in my shop.... and an M90.... and a T5! I'll go one way or the other, yet TBD. You planning to use factory engine management, or roll your own?

redblockpowered 05-03-2020 06:20 PM


Originally Posted by 940 16 valve (Post 6049482)
Found some 5" outer diameter moog coils (Moog 8088) that were new in box for $10 locally. We'll run them and see. I think they're 260lb/in which should play well with the motion ratio or the rear arm which looks to be about .73. They're 15" long so will need cut though.

Sneaky hiding of some information I've been looking for for a while!

940 16 valve 05-04-2020 12:08 AM

Ah the old 5 cylinder sitting around waiting to be but to use scenario, been there! The plan is to use motronic 4.4 and see what Aaron at Vast can do tuning-wise.
Glad to hear some of the info from the thread is getting put to use!

Interesting fact from today, the 960 engine mounts/5cyl ends up about 0.6" (my rough measurement with calipers) forward of where my B234 sat. Had to modify my trans mount that I had made for the old 940/T5 setup so it would bolt up.
It's feeling very close to ready to start. Need to finish plumbing the intercooler, a couple of turbo cooling hoses, and finish welding the downpipe, and then I think I can start it!

240wagonguy 05-04-2020 08:37 AM

I noticed that the whiteblock sits slightly further forward in the chassis compared to the redblock when I was building my T5 shifter. I had initially bought a blown up Camaro T5 to use the tailhousing, but the shifter would have ended up under the floor anyways. So I built a custom remote shifter and measured off the motor mounts back to get it right in the hole where the M46 shifter popped up.

940 16 valve 05-23-2020 01:25 PM


So I built a custom remote shifter and measured off the motor mounts back to get it right in the hole where the M46 shifter popped up.
I'd be interested to see pictures of what you came up with if you have any.
My shifter now comes up at the front of the shifter hole, just usable. It'll work for now.

A little update, I got the hydraulic clutch in. I Used a 4an line with a M12x1 to 4an banjo adapter at the master, and a adapter for the push in fitting that a lot of modern clutches use at the slave end. Disengages well after a few bleeds, in psyched that my setup seems like a go!
Waiting on some intercooler hoses, weld the exhaust today, and then I think we can give it a test run.

Anybody have a eggcrate grill for the foglught front they want to sell me?

DET17 05-23-2020 05:50 PM


Originally Posted by 940 16 valve (Post 6081511)
Anybody have a eggcrate grill for the foglight front they want to sell me?

I sure do! Check my FS thread, front and center. If that NOS grille is too rich, I also have a used one that will work as well.

940 16 valve 09-10-2020 09:23 AM

How far we've come!

It's so close. Since May:
- Got the eggcrate grille from DET17, thanks!
- Took the coolant pipe off to re-weld it after finding 2 pinhole leaks - damn!
- Hooked up the exhaust -2.5" downpipe and stock rear... for now
- Plumbed in the intercooler
- Hooked up intake side of things/PCV/etc
- Swapped the Koni's over from the old 940 - adapted the rear ones to fit IRS
- new hood and trunk shocks so it stops trying to decapitate me!
- Got some goodies from Kaplhenke (Thanks Ben!) 11x275lb springs for the rear (should be around 200lb with the motion ratio of the rear arm.
- Rebuilt the driveshaft - center support and front U joint were notchy
Found a NOS trans mount for the T5 to replace the knackered old one

I just need to bolt in the drivers seat, find a spot to mount the ECU (I pulled the wiring harness through the firewall to put it in the drivers footwell). and wire the headlights, and then it's testdrive time!

I've run it already with the VAST tuning euro map and coil on plug and all seems well. Here's hoping it's driveable to start without the VVT plugged in!

740atl 09-10-2020 06:20 PM


Originally Posted by 940 16 valve (Post 6074622)

Wow, this has piqued my interest in a big way. I have a T5 that I kludged an external slave cylinder to work with the clutch fork but I'd love to go with a hydraulic throwout bearing like you've got going here.

I'm confused, why the need to stack the bearing retainers? You're saying the 2010 slave cylinder will bolt (with modifications) to the T5 input bearing retainer?

Can you clarify this for my age addled brain?


940 16 valve 09-11-2020 12:32 AM


Originally Posted by 740atl (Post 6112296)
Can you clarify this for my age addled brain?

Lol, happily Mike. I always hope posting all this stuff up will be of some help to others.

So with the s197 input retainer that has the provision for mounting the hydraulic slave cylinder, it can bolt to the front of the T5 transmission. (Well 3 out of 4 bolts) Awesome right!? Got me excited...
Then I realized it's diameter is about 1/4" less than that of the normal fox body/sn95 bearing retainer. So basically you lose the ability of the input retainer to center then transmission in the bellhousing, or adapter plate in our case.
I was just playing around with the parts I had on hand and noticed one of the SN95 retainers had the same outside diameter lip on it as a recess on the back of the S197 mustang retainer. So basically the sn95 retainer centers the tranny to the adapter plate, and the S197 retainer sits on it and centers on another smaller groove, and then the slave can bolt to that and is nicely centered.

Anyways, saved me getting machine work done to accomplish what I wanted. If I did it again (and I may) I would bug Roger at Deeworks to see if he would make a thicker adapter plate so I could use the longer input shaft from a SN95, have the shifter slightly further back, and use the stock S197 slave instead of the shorter version from the supercharged model. But hey, it works!
Hope that helps

740atl 09-11-2020 01:01 PM

Hey man, thanks very much.

It just dawned on me why you were able to stack to two bearing retainers because of the adapter plate.

I was was looking for a cheaper hydraulic t/o for a t5 with the stock ford bellhousing and I see that this probably wouldn't work... not that I've made any measurements.

Thanks again and awesome project!

940 16 valve 09-12-2020 12:41 AM

Well let me know if you get some measurements. I have notes on the length of the 2 slave cylinder types somewhere...

And it runs! Well... I knew it ran, but it was always just for a few seconds before as a test. Tonight I ran it and let it idle up to temp. Seemed smooth!

How do you all post videos? Imgur who I use for photos doesn't seem to play the video when I upload it.

Hopefully a test drive tomorrow!

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