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-   -   Groove Results - Tried & tested (https://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=74370)

automotivebreath 08-30-2006 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xwave (Post 913420)
Me or the car? LOL.

The only additives I have used is petrol wise shortly after buying the car - Injector cleaner - and thats about it.

Oil wise wouldnt put anything in the oil. Adding Stuff in oil is generally bad, particulary long term, as Im sure youll know.

Why do you ask?

Actually I was referring to Heresy’s syrup.

On a serious note, oil is all I need in the crankcase. I’m not saying there’s no benefit to additives, the fact is oil is some amassing stuff!

I have tried acetone in the fuel, 3oz to ten gallons. There’s something there but it’s a pain to add the stuff at every fill up.

SteveMD 08-31-2006 10:02 AM

There was discussion on swedishbricks.net (mailing list) about adding toulene to regular gas. Apparently one can purchase gallon cans of it at the hardware store.

xwave 08-31-2006 07:54 PM

After doing some research, Acetone and Toulene is a complete different topic/thread. EDIT: Some spell as "toulene" others "toluene"

Briefly as I understand Both , on face level, are Octane boosters which have been known to have benefits where octane is needed to be raised to avoid pinging/detonation.

Also from research, toulene is already added / part of petroleum (gasoline) anyhow, and in greater volume in Super unleaded.

The benefits or otherwise (dependant on car and application) is not related to grooves.
The only similarity is that grooves seem to help prevent pinging /detonation, and thus on this level groove efects are equivalent to raising the octane, or/and enables use of lower octane fuel before detonation.

Ive taken this thread off topic, and now trying to attempt to get back on!
:-P

automotivebreath 08-31-2006 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xwave (Post 914883)
Ive taken this thread off topic, and now trying to attempt to get back on!:-P

And I helped, and it has been fun!

Just a quick note from the drag strip. Most know I'm involved with numerous high compression SBC engines. The locals love what the grooves do to their race engines.

With the grooves Fabian has lowered the idle of his high compression N/A 383 from 1100 RPM to 500 RPM. The oil runs clean, burns less fuel and the engine is much more responsive. Every one wants to know, how much power did the grooves provide, I can honestly say I don't know. We combined several modifications for maximum preformance. His stock body 67 Camaro is running 10.10 ET in 90 degree weather, expecting 9.80s when the cool air arrives. That's near a half a second quicker than before the modifications, needless to say, Fabian loves his grooved 383.

Morten VJ 09-01-2006 02:35 PM

After 2 weeks of driving with the groves.
This is my results.
I'm able to use the same boost pressure on regular, as i had with premium petrol before.
220 kpa with the same timing.

Fuel consumption.
Before 28 Mpg Imp. Best.
After 32 Mpg Imp and i'm still tuning.

AFR before at cruise 16-1
After at cruise 17.5-1 and nothing strange drivability problems.
I'm going to try 18-1 next week if i can burn it.

So far i'm Happy.

AB the scrathes wasn't a problem, and i didnt consider them a problem.
But somtimes a photo dosen't tell the truth.

BR

Morten

fryea 09-01-2006 02:37 PM

32? damn thats really good. Whats your CR?

Morten VJ 09-01-2006 02:44 PM

Frya
the comp ratio is 9.1
squish 1 mm


Morten

fryea 09-01-2006 02:55 PM

very very nice, well done

I think im going to try the groove setup you used.

What tools and how deep/long did you make yours?

Going to re-do the headgasket in the near future, so I want to try some grooooooves while im at it (and maybe a mild polish of the ports)

MikeHardy 09-01-2006 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morten VJ (Post 915718)
Frya
the comp ratio is 9.1
squish 1 mm


Morten

your running 1mm piston to head clearance or 1mm positive deck hieght. i presume the first option as the later is scary

Morten VJ 09-01-2006 02:59 PM

I'm running the first option 1mm clerance.
The second one sounds as you said scary.

BR

Morten

Morten VJ 09-01-2006 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fryea (Post 915733)
very very nice, well done

I think im going to try the groove setup you used.

What tools and how deep/long did you make yours?

Going to re-do the headgasket in the near future, so I want to try some grooooooves while im at it (and maybe a mild polish of the ports)

Lenght 1,5 mm short of the gasket.
Depth The bottom of the grove aligns with the end of the center elektrode of the sparkplug.
Tools
Hacksaw blade and a triangular file, Nothing special.

Morten

automotivebreath 09-01-2006 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morten VJ (Post 915708)
...AFR before at cruise 16-1
After at cruise 17.5-1 and nothing strange drivability problems.
I'm going to try 18-1 next week if I can burn it.Morten

This is awesome, exactly what I want to accomplish. Morten, it sounds like you have altered the lean burn limits, do keep us informed of progress.

If miss-fire at lean ratios becomes a problem, consider a H2 generator. A bit of hydrogen in the mix should assure ignition.

I think I'll order a wide band O2 meter today!

xwave 09-01-2006 05:19 PM

Nice one!

Unregistered 09-05-2006 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by automotivebreath (Post 908574)
High compression grooved SBC engines with a long duration camshaft and a tight lobe separation produces a sort of crackle.


Hi AB, I followed you here from SpeedTalk (I rarely post there but read everything on it, I find some of the names and knowledge on there a bit intimidating !).

I recently built a new combo based around my old SBC but with more cam, comp and cubes. Not heaps more but 10 degrees @ 050, 0.5 and an overbore. I couldn't resist the groove modification and took to my Sportsman II's with a 4" angle grinder. I took the engine (fitted to my car) to the chassis dyno I always use to set baselines and load up a bit for run-in. Benefits I noticed were definately the improved idle (despite 10 degrees more at 050 on the intake and 4 degrees tighter separation than my previous cam)and the fact that the engine appears more responsive to tuning changes (particularly idle mixture).

In reference to your quote above, the dyno operator was intruiged by the exhaust note, he reckoned it was the best sounding thing they had ever had there !!!

I might try to find your email address and send you a pic of the chambers I grooved, if you are interested.

Thanks AB for sharing your knowledge and thanks Volvo owners for letting me post on your site, good to see so many people trying this modification for themselves and not dismissing it without a second thought.

Thanks again.

automotivebreath 09-05-2006 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 920101)
I might try to find your email address and send you a pic of the chambers I grooved, if you are interested.

Thanks AB for sharing your knowledge and thanks Volvo owners for letting me post on your site, good to see so many people trying this modification for themselves and not dismissing it without a second thought.

Thanks again.

Yes I'm intrested, send the pictures to:

Automotivebreath@hotmail.com

rkr 09-06-2006 12:25 AM

What type of a timing curve were you able to run? My vortec heads (fast burn type) seem to like 10 deg idle + 8 deg vacuum and 32 deg total all in by 3000 rpm. Were you able to go lower than that?


Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 920101)
Hi AB, I followed you here from SpeedTalk (I rarely post there but read everything on it, I find some of the names and knowledge on there a bit intimidating !).

I recently built a new combo based around my old SBC but with more cam, comp and cubes. Not heaps more but 10 degrees @ 050, 0.5 and an overbore. I couldn't resist the groove modification and took to my Sportsman II's with a 4" angle grinder. I took the engine (fitted to my car) to the chassis dyno I always use to set baselines and load up a bit for run-in. Benefits I noticed were definately the improved idle (despite 10 degrees more at 050 on the intake and 4 degrees tighter separation than my previous cam)and the fact that the engine appears more responsive to tuning changes (particularly idle mixture).

In reference to your quote above, the dyno operator was intruiged by the exhaust note, he reckoned it was the best sounding thing they had ever had there !!!

I might try to find your email address and send you a pic of the chambers I grooved, if you are interested.

Thanks AB for sharing your knowledge and thanks Volvo owners for letting me post on your site, good to see so many people trying this modification for themselves and not dismissing it without a second thought.

Thanks again.


boosted 09-06-2006 12:18 PM

:grrr: :grrr: :grrr:

JohnMc 09-06-2006 01:54 PM

I have to admit, I was pretty skeptical of this groove thing at first. I'm amazed that it seems to works so well, and not in some unsubstantiated 'my tornado and fuel line magnets improved my mileage 45%!!!!!111' manner either.

xwave 09-06-2006 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnMc (Post 920998)
... and not in some unsubstantiated 'my tornado and fuel line magnets improved my mileage 45%!!!!!111'

Tried that mod ... spent hours inserting the magnets inside the fuel hoses. A Tight fit. Petrol consumption on my car was reduced to zero. The AA trucks consumption went up though, and the AA man suggested I try the magnets on the outside of the hoses ....

:-P

alidrus 09-06-2006 11:44 PM

Excitement about grooves is killing me
 
I know this thread is actually meant for people who have done the grooves to post their results, but I've been watching with great interest and the excitement is killing me. I can no longer resist posting some questions about the results.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morten VJ (Post 915708)
After 2 weeks of driving with the groves.
AFR before at cruise 16-1
After at cruise 17.5-1 and nothing strange drivability problems.
I'm going to try 18-1 next week if i can burn it.


Morten,

U mentioned no strange drivability problems. When you lean out to 17.5:1 does the car become sluggish in any way? I'm interested to know because this is what would happen when I lean out the mixture on my car (haven't grooved it yet of course). Around what ratio do u begin to lose torque [EDIT: or perceive a loss]?

Unregistered 09-07-2006 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkr (Post 920491)
What type of a timing curve were you able to run? My vortec heads (fast burn type) seem to like 10 deg idle + 8 deg vacuum and 32 deg total all in by 3000 rpm. Were you able to go lower than that?

To be honest I haven't even experimented with timing, I just set it at the 20 initial, 34 total, all in at 3000 that I always run. I should make it to the track in the next week or so and I will try dropping some more out of it.

Morten VJ 09-07-2006 11:49 AM

Alidrus
I'm having the bennefit of a programmable EMS.
Also called Megasquirt, this allows me to program any Afr to any load and rpm.
And i'm using a turbo.
You are stuck with the factory fuel curve, and a Na engine, so i doubt you can lean it to the same ekstreem.
Power loss isn't a problem in my case, as i just have to press a littel bit harder on the fun pedal.


BR

Morten

rkr 09-07-2006 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered (Post 922225)
To be honest I haven't even experimented with timing, I just set it at the 20 initial, 34 total, all in at 3000 that I always run. I should make it to the track in the next week or so and I will try dropping some more out of it.

Do let us know how it goes. If you get higher MPH with less timing and leaner mixture it would definately mean the grooves have altered the burn event and given you more power.

alidrus 09-07-2006 06:25 PM

Results
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Morten VJ (Post 922396)
Alidrus
I'm having the bennefit of a programmable EMS.
Also called Megasquirt, this allows me to program any Afr to any load and rpm.


So in other words, your EMS is compensating for the change in AFR somehow. Not quite the kind of results I was looking for, but thanks for entertaining my queries.

* I do know what MS is and have plans to go with that later but I am keeping my options open for the time being. Anyway, I'll continue discussion on the other thread unless some other interesting results appear here.

Thanks again.

PetesDustyVolvo 09-07-2006 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alidrus (Post 922746)
So in other words, your EMS is compensating for the change in AFR somehow. Not quite the kind of results I was looking for

lol?


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