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1980 244 N/A no fuel no spark

F

firefight

New member
Joined
Jul 5, 2016
Location
Oregon
Hey guys, I picked up this 1980 "264" but it has a b21 in it, from what I have read that year it was an option(?).
Anyways the car hasn't ran, in what I can tell, years. While first trying to start it I found it had a dead battery, so charged that up and I found it cranks but doesn't even try to start.
I pull cylinder 1 plug and ground the threads and found I was getting no spark. Next I went to the coil and tested the wire off that, turned it over and no spark.
So I replaced the coil, plugs, wires, cap, and rotor, all good quality parts(Bosch and NGK).
Tried to fire it up again, nothing.
I pull the oil cap and find that the top end is still moving while I crank it, so timing belt is good.
I pulled the fuel pump relay out and found one corner had gotten a little warm at some point. I took off the casing and was able to get the pump to audibly run. I then replaced the fuel pump relay thinking that was the problem, this time I pulled the injector and found I'm getting no spray.
Pulled a plug I'm still not getting spark with the new ignition parts.
I'm starting to think the ICM(which mine is on the passenger side attached to the washer tank) maybe toast? But I can't seem to find anywhere that's says that also has play in to the fuel system.
I can't seem to find much on these early cars so any help would be great
 
firefight said:
Hey guys, I picked up this 1980 "264" but it has a b21 in it, from what I have read that year it was an option(?).
Anyways the car hasn't ran, in what I can tell, years. While first trying to start it I found it had a dead battery, so charged that up and I found it cranks but doesn't even try to start.
I pull cylinder 1 plug and ground the threads and found I was getting no spark. Next I went to the coil and tested the wire off that, turned it over and no spark.
So I replaced the coil, plugs, wires, cap, and rotor, all good quality parts(Bosch and NGK).
Tried to fire it up again, nothing.
I pull the oil cap and find that the top end is still moving while I crank it, so timing belt is good.
I pulled the fuel pump relay out and found one corner had gotten a little warm at some point. I took off the casing and was able to get the pump to audibly run. I then replaced the fuel pump relay thinking that was the problem, this time I pulled the injector and found I'm getting no spray.
Pulled a plug I'm still not getting spark with the new ignition parts.
I'm starting to think the ICM(which mine is on the passenger side attached to the washer tank) maybe toast? But I can't seem to find anywhere that's says that also has play in to the fuel system.
I can't seem to find much on these early cars so any help would be great
Click to expand...

The fuel relay, above your knees, depends on a steady stream of ignition pulses to keep the pumps running, so yes, spark before fuel. They normally run for a second when you first turn the key, but to keep running that spark has to be there.

The spark amplifier is a very robust part. Less so, is the reluctor coil in the distributor. Here's a troubleshooting chart for spark:

80ign36.jpg
 
Otto Mattik said:
When you say "good quality" parts, do you mean new?,.. tested ?
Is replacement coil new ?

I assumed 264 denoted a 200 series sedan with the b30 6 cyl motor ?
Click to expand...
All new parts,

And that was my understanding when it came to 26xs but Wikipedia mentioned 80-81 offered a 4, and Rock auto lists a 2.1 as an option. So I'm not sure
 
cleanflametrap said:
The fuel relay, above your knees, depends on a steady stream of ignition pulses to keep the pumps running, so yes, spark before fuel. They normally run for a second when you first turn the key, but to keep running that spark has to be there.

The spark amplifier is a very robust part. Less so, is the reluctor coil in the distributor. Here's a troubleshooting chart for spark:

80ign36.jpg
Click to expand...
When I click the key I don't get the sound of the pump priming.
I actually was using that chart that you posted on a thread awhile back, but I can't seem to read it when I zoom in close enough,
On that flow chart I got so far No to getting spark, and yes to live 15 on coil, but I'm confused on the next step.

Thanks guys!
 
I have also read a lot about a 25a fuse in the engine bay area that can cause problems, would my year have this because of so, I can't seem to find it.
 
Over by the battery, look for a little spade connector break out box attached to the fender. You might want make sure all those connections are clean too, but I don't think that's your problem since you're getting voltage to the coil. Check the reluctor pickup in the distributor, it should be 950-1250 ohms at 75?F. Usually if it's bad there won't be any continuity regardless of the temperature.
 
VB242 said:
Over by the battery, look for a little spade connector break out box attached to the fender.
Click to expand...

From what I have seen it should be attached to the metal bracket on the drivers side, I have a large relay(I assume headlights?) them a black box that has a large diameter red wire from the battery cable that feeds 2 other wires, and a normal size metal relay, but even with the battery out, can't find the fuse.

But I am getting power to the coil so that's good to know it should be fine. From what I can tell that pick up on distribute has wires that run to the passenger fender to a rectangle connector, which feeds in to the ignition mod. Am I correct on that?
 
firefight said:
From what I can tell that pick up on distribute has wires that run to the passenger fender to a rectangle connector, which feeds in to the ignition mod. Am I correct on that?
Click to expand...

Correct. Those wires run under the front of the engine (below the crank pulley) and are known for being degraded. Check continuity between the dist and the black box.

I don't believe your car would have a 25A fuse under the hood. It has K-jetronic injection, right? If you are not sure, post a photo of the engine.

If the car has not run in years, what is in the gas tank? The K-jet system is sensitive to bad or contaminated gas. If you have not done it, I would recommend that you drain the tank, take a look at what comes out, put new gas in, and flush the lines to the engine by running the fuel pump. A new fuel filter would be a good idea too. Do this before anything else.
 
Harry Tuttle said:
Correct. Those wires run under the front of the engine (below the crank pulley) and are known for being degraded. Check continuity between the dist and the black box.

I don't believe your car would have a 25A fuse under the hood. It has K-jetronic injection, right? If you are not sure, post a photo of the engine.

If the car has not run in years, what is in the gas tank? The K-jet system is sensitive to bad or contaminated gas. If you have not done it, I would recommend that you drain the tank, take a look at what comes out, put new gas in, and flush the lines to the engine by running the fuel pump. A new fuel filter would be a good idea too. Do this before anything else.
Click to expand...

Yeah its Kjet, I haven't drained any fuel yet, there wasn't enough fuel to really move the needle a whole lot, so i put in about a gallon, but iI will make an effort to crawl under and drain whats in there and start new.

Testing continuity on the distributor, where should I be probing? I found the plug on the passenger side, but I wasn't able to see any wire(s) in the distributor, it seemed the sensor is picking up the magnetic feed as the gear moves past it? should I be checking the continuity between the two pins on the end of the harness? and if so does it matter what position the distributor is in? TDC?

Thanks again you guys!
 
If I am not mistaken, you can remove the connector from the distributor. There is likely a bracket with a screw retaining it. In order to reach it, you may have to take out the bolt retaining the dist. to rotate it or remove it. I am just talking about checking the continuity of the wires.
 
Check for continuity on the 2 pins of the connector, it shouldn't be infinite which would mean the pickup or the wires are broken or less than 950ohms, which would indicate a short between the wires somewhere
 
ZVOLV said:
You can also put a test light on the coil negative and check for blinking.
Click to expand...

Tried that last night, connected the clip to the - post and the tip to the +(15) and cranked it and it was steady light the whole time, so something isn't telling the coil to fire.
 
VB242 said:
Check for continuity on the 2 pins of the connector, it shouldn't be infinite which would mean the pickup or the wires are broken or less than 950ohms, which would indicate a short between the wires somewhere
Click to expand...
Harry Tuttle said:
If I am not mistaken, you can remove the connector from the distributor. There is likely a bracket with a screw retaining it. In order to reach it, you may have to take out the bolt retaining the dist. to rotate it or remove it. I am just talking about checking the continuity of the wires.
Click to expand...

Ok, so I need to check continuity between the two wires going to the ICM from the distributor, and it shouldn't matter where the distributor is at in regards to rotation, it should be above 950ohms, but not infinite.
Infinite would tell me I have have a broken wire, and below 950 would show that its not allowing enough juice to go though and Ill need to replace the distributor. Sound correct?

Is there anyway to test the ICM? I found a link from cleanflametrap
http://cleanflametrap.com/ignition56.jpg
and I found pin 15 and pin 16 are hot with ignition on, and 31 is earthed.
but the next step was checking continuity between pin 7 and 31d, not sure if i'm suppose to check on the harness side or the ICM but I found both didn't give a reading on the multi-meter on any of the ohms settings.
Thinking that may be the problem?
 
cleanflametrap said:
There's another chart on page 56 of this k-jet.org pdf: http://www.k-jet.org/files/greenbooks/200/Section 3 - Electrical/TP30432-2_ignition_systems.pdf

But I'd be doing what you're doing; checking resistance toward the distributor pickup coil, looking for poor oxidized connections.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for that link! That's exactly what i have been looking for.

So it show that the distributor pick up goes to the rectangle plug, then up to pin 31d and 7 on the ICM connector. Those are the pins that I showed on the harness side when hooked the multi meter that it didn't change it at all, so i can assume that somewhere there is a broken wire going from the distributor to that plug?

and this could be causing my no fuel problem as well?
 
ZVOLV said:
See if you have voltage to the fuel pump. Fuse box sounds likes a smart place to do this test.
Click to expand...

I found that the fuel pump fuse is grounded on both sides, not sure if its constant live and fused ground? I accidentally touched a metal test light from the fuse above down the the fuel pump fuse and when it touched it made the fuel pump run. the fuse above that it was robbing power from was live not grounded.

I went though and test lighted the fuel pump relay plug and found
Pin 30 +
Pin 15 +
Pin 87b -
Pin 31b -
Pin 31 -
Pin 87 -

which from what i can gather is correct? But I guess it cant be because the fuel pump isn't triggering?
 
Pin 15 is always juice. Pin 30 is output. 87's are control side of the circuit on a relay.

I create my own tests all the time. In this case you could access the relay and do power tests there. See if you have juice to 15 and see if you have juice at 30 while cranking. Pop cover off and watch inside. And or pinch the contact shut and fuel pump should run.

If the contact isn't closing on cranking. Suspect what tells it to close= rpm sensor circuit.

Resistance check the sensor to look for an open circuit is fast and will tell you if the sensor is open =busted. But doesn't conclusively tell you it's good. First inspect for bad wiring inside and out of the distributor. Then develop a test method. A scope would work. Or other methods/tools. It makes an AC voltage right.....?
 
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