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-   -   760: Liner Kit for Volvo in Renault/Peugeot (https://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=286243)

Jorge_ 10-19-2013 02:16 PM

Liner Kit for Volvo in Renault/Peugeot
 
Hello

does anyone know if it is possible to install pistons and liners for a volvo B280 engine(cylinder bore 91mm) in a Renault Z7X/Peugeot ZPJ engine block(cylinder bore 93mm)?Both of them are PRV V6

Thank you

gambym 10-19-2013 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jorge_ (Post 4718419)
Hello

does anyone know if it is possible to install pistons and liners for a volvo B280 engine(cylinder bore 91mm) in a Renault Z7X/Peugeot ZPJ engine block(cylinder bore 93mm)?

Thank you

Anything is possible if you have the wallet.

Jorge_ 10-19-2013 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red245 (Post 4718475)
Anything is possible if you have the wallet.

:lol::lol: i believe i dont need any wallet if both of them have the same outside diameter at the seats :) That is what i would like to know....

AdmiralSenn 10-19-2013 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jorge_ (Post 4718419)
Hello

does anyone know if it is possible to install pistons and liners for a volvo B280 engine(cylinder bore 91mm) in a Renault Z7X/Peugeot ZPJ engine block(cylinder bore 93mm)?Both of them are PRV V6

Thank you

Theoretically you can do the other way around (milling a 2.8 B28F for Z7X liners, pistons and rods) - my DeLorean motor had this done by the previous owner. (Both the owner and the shop who performed the work have vehemently stated that it is not worth the effort and they would never do it again.)

I haven't torn mine down all the way but I am pretty sure the outside diameters are NOT the same - the liners have a similar wall thickness, so increasing bore size means the whole thing has to get bigger. There's most likely a reason it isn't commonly done.

You may want to ask Josh at DeLorean performance or post on DMCTalk, someone there will probably be able to give you some more info.

Can I ask why you want to do this? The 3.0 motors are usually considered better in almost every way imaginable. Most people considering the two motors go with the later one.

Jorge_ 10-20-2013 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdmiralSenn (Post 4718512)
Theoretically you can do the other way around (milling a 2.8 B28F for Z7X liners, pistons and rods) - my DeLorean motor had this done by the previous owner. (Both the owner and the shop who performed the work have vehemently stated that it is not worth the effort and they would never do it again.)

I haven't torn mine down all the way but I am pretty sure the outside diameters are NOT the same - the liners have a similar wall thickness, so increasing bore size means the whole thing has to get bigger. There's most likely a reason it isn't commonly done.

You may want to ask Josh at DeLorean performance or post on DMCTalk, someone there will probably be able to give you some more info.

Can I ask why you want to do this? The 3.0 motors are usually considered better in almost every way imaginable. Most people considering the two motors go with the later one.

I have a project of making cylinder liners and pistons for these engines.

AdmiralSenn 10-20-2013 12:15 PM

Actually, the person you should be talking to is John Lane (username here is JohnLane). He can probably tell you anything you want to know off the top of his head.

That being said, if you're making a set or multiple sets of liners and pistons, you might want to start with an existing set either new or from a used motor. Nothing beats having the part in your hand to measure off.

Jorge_ 10-20-2013 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdmiralSenn (Post 4718990)
Actually, the person you should be talking to is John Lane (username here is JohnLane). He can probably tell you anything you want to know off the top of his head.

That being said, if you're making a set or multiple sets of liners and pistons, you might want to start with an existing set either new or from a used motor. Nothing beats having the part in your hand to measure off.

Yes, the idea is to make several of these.
I have a used spare set for a PRV engine bore 93mm.I have already made six liners according to this set i have.It would be great if they can fit the B280 as well.

AdmiralSenn 10-20-2013 12:44 PM

Wait, so you've already made 93mm sets and want to fit them in a 91mm bore motor? That sounds like the opposite of your original post.

Jorge_ 10-20-2013 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdmiralSenn (Post 4719008)
Wait, so you've already made 93mm sets and want to fit them in a 91mm bore motor?

yes, i've made six liners so far.I believe the b280 block has the same diameter at the liner seats as the 93mm block, but i am not sure though.Yours is a B28f and i believe it has smaller seats than the B280

AdmiralSenn 10-20-2013 01:22 PM

True, mine is based on the older casting. I know there were a lot of updates to the b280 series casting but I don't know if it has the same seat diameter as the Z7X series.

John Lane has done a 3 liter liner set in a B280F block according to this thread (http://turbobricks.com/forums/showthread.php?p=32165), I assume it was a relatively straightforward installation but you'd have to ask him. (It takes me like seven posts to say "I don't know" :) )

But it is theoretically possible, and certainly easier than what was done for my abomination of a motor.

JohnLane 10-20-2013 08:24 PM

The 93mm Liners as we find in sayyyy an Eagle Premier or Dodge Monaco here in the States will slide right into the B-280 block. B-27 and B-28 will not accept the larger liners.

B-280 block has nice cross-bolted main bearings and an oil-water oil cooler.

Going from 91mm to 93mm of boresize takes it from 2849cc to 2975cc.

I'm grinding crankshafts for longer stroke.... :badboy: All else being the same more displacement is more fun!

FWIW here in the States we got the 'F' or smog heads with 'Swirl' intake ports in the B-280. The Eagle Premier and Dodge Monaco got the 'E' heads which breathe better. All the PRV two valve heads I've seen need desperately to have the exhaust port opened up to remove the lump for 'Pulse Air' that we never got here in the States and continued in all the castings.

Do be sure to toss the Volvo exhaust manifolds and use those found on an EP/DM as they will make for a seat of the pants improvement in power. Yup; one bolt-on (OK; not exactly a bolt-on!) that you will feel in the seat of your pants.

Using the E heads with B-280 F cams on a larger displacement bottom end makes for a very amusing engine. I'd like to try 'E' cams but haven't yet.

I give them the right internals and a turbo. You too can break all the drivetrain whilst laughing yourself silly.

Jorge_ 10-20-2013 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnLane (Post 4719260)
The 93mm Liners as we find in sayyyy an Eagle Premier or Dodge Monaco here in the States will slide right into the B-280 block. B-27 and B-28 will not accept the larger liners.

B-280 block has nice cross-bolted main bearings and an oil-water oil cooler.

Going from 91mm to 93mm of boresize takes it from 2849cc to 2975cc.

I'm grinding crankshafts for longer stroke.... :badboy: All else being the same more displacement is more fun!

FWIW here in the States we got the 'F' or smog heads with 'Swirl' intake ports in the B-280. The Eagle Premier and Dodge Monaco got the 'E' heads which breathe better. All the PRV two valve heads I've seen need desperately to have the exhaust port opened up to remove the lump for 'Pulse Air' that we never got here in the States and continued in all the castings.

Do be sure to toss the Volvo exhaust manifolds and use those found on an EP/DM as they will make for a seat of the pants improvement in power. Yup; one bolt-on (OK; not exactly a bolt-on!) that you will feel in the seat of your pants.

Using the E heads with B-280 F cams on a larger displacement bottom end makes for a very amusing engine. I'd like to try 'E' cams but haven't yet.

I give them the right internals and a turbo. You too can break all the drivetrain whilst laughing yourself silly.

Hello John

Great then!.Yes, i was aware of the differences in performance between the different versions.I personally own a 1992 Peugeot 605 V6 which came with the PRV ZPJ version 12 valve 93mm bore 170HP and 245nm of torque evenfire and counterbalanced, 5speed manual gearbox.Goes like a rocket.It must have the heads similar to the B280 then, because it goes really fast and has 80% of the torque before reaching 2000rpm.Very torquey motor.Doesnt bigger exauhst ports affect low end torque in a negative way?i mean it would be like keeping the exauhst valve open at TDC longer?

JohnLane 10-21-2013 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jorge_ (Post 4719364)
Hello John

Great then!.Yes, i was aware of the differences in performance between the different versions.I personally own a 1992 Peugeot 605 V6 which came with the PRV ZPJ version 12 valve 93mm bore 170HP and 245nm of torque evenfire and counterbalanced, 5speed manual gearbox.Goes like a rocket.It must have the heads similar to the B280 then, because it goes really fast and has 80% of the torque before reaching 2000rpm.Very torquey motor.Doesnt bigger exauhst ports affect low end torque in a negative way?i mean it would be like keeping the exauhst valve open at TDC longer?

Your Peugeot will have the 'E' heads with 'E' cams and more compression than the B-280F that we got did.

My fifty cents in a bet says that your Frenchie car got much better exhaust than Volvo fitted to the PRV six. Sadly Volvo didn't seem too interested in developing this engine.... Could have been a real winner; in particular with turbo(s). My turbo Six goes like heck!

You got the Counterbalance arrangement.... The B-280F has empty castings where the bits would go. I very carefully balance them and have smooth runners for it. I'm curious how much nicer it could be with that stuff.... Never seen it in person. Just pictures.

Jorge_ 10-21-2013 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnLane (Post 4719449)
Your Peugeot will have the 'E' heads with 'E' cams and more compression than the B-280F that we got did.

My fifty cents in a bet says that your Frenchie car got much better exhaust than Volvo fitted to the PRV six. Sadly Volvo didn't seem too interested in developing this engine.... Could have been a real winner; in particular with turbo(s). My turbo Six goes like heck!

You got the Counterbalance arrangement.... The B-280F has empty castings where the bits would go. I very carefully balance them and have smooth runners for it. I'm curious how much nicer it could be with that stuff.... Never seen it in person. Just pictures.

It is ridicously smooth :oogle: they say the volvos premiers and monacos didnt need them that much because of the longitudinal layout.On the other hand Peugeot 605 Citroen XM and Renault Safranes among others have a transversal FWD layout which are more sensitive to engine vibrations therefore they were provided with counterbalance shafts.

Jorge_ 10-28-2013 04:28 PM

these are the liners with a bore 93mm the foundry made for me according to the model i gave them:

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/b...psfbf035b8.png


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