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-   -   YASVT (Yet Another Sixteen Valve Turbo) - now 16V Whiteblock (LS) (https://forums.tbforums.com/showthread.php?t=166061)

JohnMc 03-30-2009 10:28 AM

YASVT (Yet Another Sixteen Valve Turbo) - now 16V Whiteblock (LS)
 
What the heck, I thought I might do a project thread too instead of just randomly glomming pics into other threads. Belatedly, since it's nearing completion.

Background: In Dec 2005, I bought a pristine '93 245 Classic (#1141/1600) on ebay. Looked brand new still, not a speck of rust underneath, and a brand new (actually, not 'nearly') tan leather interior. And under the hood, a very neatly swapped '93 940T drivetrain - round toothed B230FT and AW71 trans. When I got it it was running a nice healthy 12 psi. Felt fast and peppy!
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybiker/Volvo/245_LF.jpg
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...ash_gauges.jpg
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...245_engine.jpg
(Shouldn't all late model 245's have come from the factory with this under the hood???)

The skinny 14" wheels came off, 17" wheels went on. IPD lowering springs and Bilstein HD's (it already had IPD sways).
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...o/IMG_4078.JPG

And gradually, I'd gotten used to the amount of pep it had, and wanted more. The 13C was quickly out of puff, so the next step was browntops, NPR intercooler, 3" exhaust, and a 16T turbo.
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...o/IMG_4891.JPG
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...o/IMG_4889.JPG

That was more like it. Somewhere along the way (as planned) I got rid of the AW71 and put in an M47. Which lasted about 8 months.
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...h/IMG_6410.JPG

So a T5 went in.
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...o/IMG_6512.JPG

It ran a 14.0@97 with that setup.

During the spring of '08 I put on a 531 head, with an IPD Turbo cam and 37.5 exhaust valves, with some mild porting to match the larger valves.
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...d/IMG_9356.JPG

Was it faster? Butt dyno was a little ambiguous on the matter. In the fall of '08 it did run a 13.8@100.

However, it wasn't running quite right that evening. Bad tank of gas? I'd tried to compensate for that by putting in some octane booster, which seemed to make it slightly worse if anything. I fidgeted with the plugs some. It got a little better. I should have gone home, but no, I pushed for some improvement over the previous year's 14.0 and got the 13.8. But only with some fairly high boost levels and a little pinging. Here's one of the runs in a datalog:
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...08/datalog.JPG

Car survived the night, I drove it home, all seemed well. But inside the motor, 2 rods were slightly bent, a 3rd bent even more. And probably stress cracked from bending. They survived a few more days of normal use, until on the way to work, #2 let loose at around 15 psi. BAM*crunch*clatter*crunch*smoke*clatter. Yay, cross flow crankcase ventilation!
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...e/IMG_0929.JPG
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...e/IMG_0933.JPG
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...e/IMG_0938.JPG
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...e/IMG_0986.JPG
Bendy rod:
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...e/IMG_0991.JPG

Got a '94 940T junkyard motor. 240K miles, still crosshatching in the cylinders. However, also a lot of copper showing on the bearings. Briefly considered just slapping bearings in it and putting it right into the car. ... ... Nah!
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...e/IMG_1068.JPG

Got some blingy rods and pistons...
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...e/IMG_1071.JPG
...before realizing that they didn't work together. Crank-steered pistons, and piston steered rods. D'oh! RSI to the rescue with crank steered H-beam rods in the stock length. Uber strong Pauter rods sold.

Cruising the PnP for a aux. shaft with dist drive gears, I spotted a 940GLE. New addition to the sleepy Volvo section of the PnP! Opened the hood, yep, 16V head still on. Yanked off the t-belt cover, yep, timing belt still intact. Score!!! (Oddly enough, there was a parking violation sticker on the driver's side window, AFAIK it was jsut abandoned somewhere too long, got towed, then sold off). My project just got more complicated and expensive. D'oh!
J/Y shortblock with J/Y 16V head sitting on top:
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...e/IMG_1146.JPG


Striving to make it fairly easy, I used sdturbo's intake adapter to put an 8V intake on the 16V head. Did some porting to match the round shape of the manifold to the oval shape of the head:
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...d/IMG_1899.JPG
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...d/IMG_1900.JPG
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...d/IMG_1903.JPG
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...d/IMG_1904.JPG
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...d/IMG_1905.JPG

Also used sdturbo's tensioner setup. A very nice bolt on solution that still uses Volvo parts (belt, idler, tensioner):
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...e/IMG_1997.JPG

Also, tried a HE351VE Holset for size, as they are intriguing (variable aperature for quick spool and mega flow). But the shear physical size of the hotside made me scrap that idea. Just didn't fit, and I don't want to reconfigure the entire engine compartment just to fit an extremely bulky, 50 lb 400 hp turbo. Even if it was dirt cheap and the variable gate stuff was very intriguing:
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...e/IMG_2000.JPG
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...e/IMG_2001.JPG
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...e/IMG_2003.JPG

To mount the block distributor, I got on eBay.UK and ordered some dinky little Citroen cap. Clips right onto the distributor body, but the 'roof' is somewhat lower inside the cap. So I had to trim about 1/2" off the tip of the distributor shaft, re-notch the stub slightly, then chop the bottom 1/3" (+/-) off the stock rotor so it would sit down a little lower inside, then the cap fit properly. And it can barely be removed and replaced with the head on. The dist body itself, however, is there for the duration. Zoidberg cap:
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...e/IMG_1159.JPG
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...e/IMG_1999.JPG

After putting the motor in to check for fit on the Holset, I started to see some problems with the intake manifold. The problem with the 16V manifold is that it points right at the master cylinder. Well, the mounting point for the intake on the 16V head is farther out and I think angled up slightly more, as compared to the 8V. So the 8V intake isn't quite a miracle solution to that clearance problem (although it probably avoids that anecdotal flow issue under boost the 16V intake supposedly has).
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...e/IMG_2005.JPG
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...e/IMG_2006.JPG

Two pronged solution - first, carefully bend that brake line over so it runs closely along the master cylinder. Secondly, go to the PnP and get an 850 throttle body. I found two different sizes there, and got the larger one (3" OD). Much shorter, bigger throttle, nice non-rigged TPS mount. w00t! Only problem was that it mounts with 4 bolts, not the 8V's weird 3 bolt pattern. I found that two of the 8V bolts would work once the 850 TB holes were enlarged, with the TB just rotated a few degrees off level. For a 3rd bolt, I just drilled a hole in the intake and put in a stud with some JB-Weld for sealing. For the 4th hole, I would have done the same, but it was aimed at a tricky transitional area on the 8V plenum where the side drops down sharply to the #2 runner. I didn't think the same trick would work there, so I left that one off. 3 bolts out of 4, should be OK. I think. Clearance issue is now gone:
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...e/IMG_2007.JPG

Started dressing the motor. Engine harness back on, injectors/fuel rail back on. Throttle cable and throttle spool back on. Hmmm... (really should have taken a picture at this point to illustrate things). Well, on an 8V manifold the brackets hold the cable and spool up above the manifold fairly far. Which isn't a problem when the 8V manifold is sitting down farther in the engine bay. But on a 16V head, it's poking up higher. To the point where they'd leave dents in the hood when you close it. So I hammered, bent, trimmed, hacked at both brackets until they sat down a little over an inch. Even after all that, they are still the high point of the motor, and I'm slightly uneasy about their proximity to the hood. I guess on the positive side, the hood does curve upwards across the center from the sides, and the center section is raised even more. Fingers crossed that I don't have to do more. Or that the engine doesn't rock over under power and jam the spool against the hood. *THINKFASTANDSHUTTHEKEYOFF*
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...e/IMG_2009.JPG.

I put a short (1" tall?) PV motor mount on the left side, to lean the motor over a little and get it away form the A/C line on the firewall. With stock mounts (well, diesel mounts) in, the engine was about 1/8" away from these lines. I considered gently bending them to the right, but I didn't like the odds on that. So I left them alone and did the motor mount thing.
http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...e/IMG_2008.JPG

The JGSTool's log mani is arriving very soon. And I already got the (I'll regret this at some point in the future) knockoff ball bearing GT3076R turbo. Yes, non-optimal cheapness afflicts that side of the motor. But it's been dragging on long enough and cost enough at this point that I'm jsut getting it done for now. In the future, I'll likely revisit it with a 'real' manifold and a 'real' turbo. For now though, a log mani (1.6" ID tubes), GT3076R turbo with ATP 3" V-band adapter and internal wastegate going into the 3" Dp and exhaust.

.t.i.m.m.y.240 03-30-2009 10:40 AM

Looks great! You make it look so easy.

OldSchoolEuro 03-30-2009 10:43 AM

That is going to be a monster....GOOD JOB!

Bob 03-30-2009 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnMc (Post 2362098)
But it's been dragging on long enough and cost enough at this point that I'm just getting it done for now.

I know that feeling :lol:

JonnyP 03-30-2009 10:58 AM

I love that intsall on the first turbo motor. Looks completely stock!

JohnMc 03-30-2009 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JONNYP (Post 2362129)
I love that intsall on the first turbo motor. Looks completely stock!

It was extremely clean. Not a single thing looked non OEM/factory under the hood. Later on when I MS'ed it I found a wire in the passenger footwell that looked a bit out of place, that was it. Don't know who did the work, but it was well done.

JohnMc 03-30-2009 11:31 AM

Forgot to mention how snug it was getting the trans back on. The 16V head doesn't let the motor lean back as much, so I couldn't fit the trans on with the bellhousing attached. Even with it roatated so the starter bump wasn't hitting, the rest of the bellhousing would hit the tunnel before the pilot shaft had hit the center of the pressure plate so it could move forward.

Which would be a bigger problem if I still had an M47 with the bolts inside the bellhousing. But the T5 swap has external bolts holding the trans to the adapter plate. So I pulled it off the bellhousing, put the bellhousing on, and then put the trans on the bellhousing.

I'd heard that it was too snug to put the motor in the car with the trans already attached, so I didn't even try. I could see how it wouldn't work though, just not enough clearance between the back of the head and the firewall, and the oil pan and the crossmember, and the bellhousing and the tunnel.

lookforjoe 03-30-2009 12:55 PM

Nice work there!

Thanks for describing all the little mods required to make things fit, it really gives a better sense of what you've done to make it all come together thus far.

Youtube vids when it's running??? :)

Vol242vo 03-30-2009 01:55 PM

Nice attention to detail, everything is looking really nice! Just gave her 5 stars!

sdturbo 03-30-2009 09:28 PM

Solution for the tb fitment problems is in the final stages of development and should be on the shelf and forsale by the end of the week.

http://yoshifab.com/images/volvo/960tb.jpg
http://yoshifab.com/images/volvo/960tb1.jpg

It also offers the advantage of increased plenum volume and the ablitly to run the larger 16v/850/960 style tb.

JohnMc 03-30-2009 10:04 PM

Looks nice, that would take care of the cable bracket/spool clearance issue as well.

After dropping mine down by about an inch, I put the hood on and saw about 1/4" clearance. To the hood pad, though, more if it was bare metal under there.

The Redeemer 03-31-2009 03:51 AM

Wow! Looks great!

JohnMc 03-31-2009 06:59 PM

Well, the DEI concept was too complicated, I always thought. Why not just route the exhaust from one cylinder to another cylinder more directly?

http://webpages.charter.net/muddybik...e/IMG_2010.JPG

Yeah, I just need to use an 8V camshaft on that side, that way one of the exhaust valves works as the intake, the other as the exhaust...

Yeah, the log manifold came. Welding and cutting are in my near future. The Chinese GT3076R fits nicely underneath with the flange pretty much centered in the manifold. Zap, weld, cut, smooth, should have a turbo hanging on the motor before long. Parts to plumb it all are in the mail.

shellshock 03-31-2009 07:23 PM

Will I see this car at midsommar this year? :oogle:

Looks Sweet man!!11

JohnMc 03-31-2009 07:35 PM

It's coming together nicely. I'd have to hit a major snag to not make it at this rate.

Poik 03-31-2009 08:03 PM

That cap does look like Zoidberg!

Great project, I look forward to reading more progress.

Tom Wiley 03-31-2009 08:47 PM

Man. THis thing is going to be a SLEEPER!

Harlard 03-31-2009 09:14 PM

thank you for all the info! this answers a hell of a lot of questions!

Harlard 03-31-2009 09:22 PM

btw what engine mounts are they exactly and what rear cam seal did you wind up using?

JohnMc 03-31-2009 09:36 PM

I tore up some poly stage 2 mounts pretty quickly with the 8V motor. I'm still pondering what to do with this.

Currently it has a diesel 240 mount on the right side, and a Volvo PV motor mount on the left side, because it's so short.

I just got these in the mail, though, I'll be trying them on for size. Dirt cheap ($3.10) old Dodge V8 pickup motor mounts. With interlocking metal tabs. They offer full cush 99% of the time, then under stress, the deflect a certain amount and then the tabs lock into each other. Could work...
http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/ge...nchor/2469.jpg

I'm also keeping an eye on posts around here where people are working on motor mount solutions for 240's. The basic problem with the stock 240 mounts is just that they are so close together. You either need to fix that with some custom brackets, or run a 3rd mount. Or a cargo strap...

Rear cam seal is just a normal plug like you'd use in an 8V head. 16V head has the same sized hole back there.

MrBill 03-31-2009 09:51 PM

man that manifold looks so much better than mine :lol:

JohnMc 03-31-2009 09:55 PM

You can see up close that they did a lot of grinding on it to make it look nice. And then put some sort of coating on it. Probably just flat black BBQ grille paint.

VQ 03-31-2009 11:13 PM

That is awesome! I remember reading about you buying the car when you did, wondered what had happened to it, answers a lot of questions!

sdturbo 03-31-2009 11:44 PM

I am excited to what that turbo can do.

thelostartof 03-31-2009 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdturbo (Post 2362908)
Solution for the tb fitment problems is in the final stages of development and should be on the shelf and forsale by the end of the week.

http://yoshifab.com/images/volvo/960tb.jpg
http://yoshifab.com/images/volvo/960tb1.jpg

It also offers the advantage of increased plenum volume and the ablitly to run the larger 16v/850/960 style tb.

about time ... that is what i have been wanting to do for ages, just never could get anyone to weld the flanges i have sitting here ... damnit ... looks pipe .. price?


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