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LFX 6 banger into a 240.??

B

bob davi

New member
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Location
Gainesville, Texas
LFX 6-banger into a 240.??

Hello,

I did a quick search, but couldn't find anything on swapping a six cylinder LFX from a 2010-2016 Camaro into a 240. If you know anyone who has or is doing this, please get contact info if possible.

I have a 1980 242 that needs some power; figured this would be nice as they come stock making 325hp, and are smaller/easier to fit than the LS V-8.

Thanks for any info,

Bob
 
I sorta thought about it, then sucked it up and did a 5.3 - the support from both the aftermarket and our community is hard to beat.

Some of the bits V8roadsters has put together for swapping an LFX into a Miata might be helpful for putting one in a 240: https://v8roadsters.com/product-cat...ine-conversion-lfx/engine-conversion-lfx-nab/

You'd be on your own for at least engine mounts and driveshaft, but that's part of the fun :nod:
 
It wont be that different from any other engine swap. Buy one... get it mounted... figure out how to hook up everything. If you cant build your own exhaust and other stuff it will be expensive.
 
57plymouth said:
Why take all that effort, and forget the last 2 cylinders? LS swap it.
Click to expand...
Just spitballing here, but...

Pros:
Less weight, further back in the chassis, better MPGs, and a power curve less likely to spin tires with our tiny tires in tiny wheel wells. If you want a manual, the transmissions aren't T56s with gold plated gears, so that might save a few $1000 over an LSx. 60 degree V might be better than the LSx - the manifold-to-everything clearance is pretty tight.

Cons:
I haven't measured it out, but being DOHC, the heads are probably pretty tall, which might cause problems with the brake booster. Engine's probably less durable in the long run. Less aftermarket means you're going to need to be better at fabricating and cobbling than you would with an LSx, which already takes quite a bit.

arsenix said:
It wont be that different from any other engine swap. Buy one... get it mounted... figure out how to hook up everything. If you cant build your own exhaust and other stuff it will be expensive.
Click to expand...
Truth.
 
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Let's all stop pretending "LS swap" means a 550hp LS7... most guys are using truck motors, iron block 5.3 / 6.0 which made between 270 and 325hp (most under 300hp with the LQ9 matching LS1 numbers at 345) and 4 speed automatics. Sure, all of you have best friends building 700+hp turbo LS motors, but that doesn't make someone else's effort to do something different pointless...

LFX pullouts are cheaper than LS (for now until they become mainstream...) especially with a manual trans.
LFX is a "headerless motor." The collector is cast inside the head, so exhaust (which is typically the most $$ of a swap) will include one flange and one pipe per each side of the motor. Can't get simpler than that.
Wiring - Miata guy's are saying it's as easy or easier than LS stuff.
Tuning - plenty of options already
Fab work will include motor mounts - which are simple. And if guys are sticking these in miatas already, I'd assume the oil pan-to-cross member clearance won't be any more of an issue than the LS swap.

You end up with a lighter car, better weight distribution (possible mid engine status?? Lol), better fuel economy (although I think it's a joke guys with LS motors aren't getting better mileage than the SUV/trucks their motor was taken from - you need to find new tuners), CANBUS gauges, and the arguable better / more unique sound of a v6 with a 7200 rpm redline
 
bob davi said:
Hello,

I did a quick search, but couldn't find anything on swapping a six cylinder LFX from a 2010-2016 Camaro into a 240. If you know anyone who has or is doing this, please get contact info if possible.

I have a 1980 242 that needs some power; figured this would be nice as they come stock making 325hp, and are smaller/easier to fit than the LS V-8.

Thanks for any info,

Bob
Click to expand...

How do you plan to run the direct injection, flashed ecu or standalone?

The 2k12-2k16 models have with the exhaust manifold combined with the cylinder head.
 
383Mazda said:
LFX pullouts are cheaper than LS (for now until they become mainstream...) especially with a manual trans.
LFX is a "headerless motor." The collector is cast inside the head, so exhaust (which is typically the most $$ of a swap) will include one flange and one pipe per each side of the motor. Can't get simpler than that.
Wiring - Miata guy's are saying it's as easy or easier than LS stuff.
Tuning - plenty of options already
Fab work will include motor mounts - which are simple. And if guys are sticking these in miatas already, I'd assume the oil pan-to-cross member clearance won't be any more of an issue than the LS swap.

You end up with a lighter car, better weight distribution (possible mid engine status?? Lol), better fuel economy (although I think it's a joke guys with LS motors aren't getting better mileage than the SUV/trucks their motor was taken from - you need to find new tuners), CANBUS gauges, and the arguable better / more unique sound of a v6 with a 7200 rpm redline
Click to expand...

I wondered why there were so danged many LFX-into-Volvo 240 swaps going on right now --- nice to have all the good reasons laid out in one place. Can't understand how all those V8 swap folks have gotten it so wrong....
 
More random musings, some pro, some con:
  • In a small community like ours, the guys designing custom parts have to target the lowest common denominator or not bother at all. If you can make swap parts that work on a 275hp LR4, and those same bits also work on a 700hp twincharged LSA, then those are the parts you put into production and keep in stock (read: STS's mounts, which made more than a few of the swaps either finished or in progress, feasible). Without that one cornerstone to lean on, a lot of the people that can't do 100% of a swap, soup to nuts, but can handle all the other pieces, will never spool.
  • 5.3L, 3.7 rear, 0.64 top gear. MPG: 20mpg in extremely mixed behavior city, 24 on my best behavior highway. Eh, better than my old B20 or hacked-together 16VT...
  • Electronics and wiring are pretty much identical between GM V6s and V8s, minus two injector and coil triggers. They did use Bosch ECUs that aren't easily unlocked for a few years, and everybody avoids those.
  • Tuning for most of these swaps amounts to "disable the rear O2 sensors, tank pressure sensor, and antitheft." Maybe a bit more if you're not doing it in good faith to the spirit if not the letter of emissions regulations, a bit less if you're doing it to the letter. None of the more casual players are swapping cams and spending hours on the dyno getting max HP, and the guys that are, are never saying "hey, charge me twice as much for twice as much dyno time to make me a high MPG map, too." The "tune" is almost entirely factory GM.
  • The DI pumps for most of the modern GMs have a mechanical cam-driven pump that takes a low pressure input and makes the "crazy" high pressure for DI injection. It'd take some research to verify it, but a good high flow 240 tank/"pre" pump might do it, if not, a moderate flow K-jet pump definitely would.
  • I try not to mention to anybody that my LSx 245 is "LS swapped", because anyone that hears that automatically assumes that means "7.0L TT muh-muh-muh-mooooonster!" when in reality it just means "5.3L that makes a number that the old 2.3L turbo could have done if I threw money at it instead." The LSx cult of personality is strong, both in attracting interest to do these, and the aftermarket to make it possible, and in getting the attentions of dudes at Cars and Coffee.
 
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M.H. Yount said:
I wondered why there were so danged many LFX-into-Volvo 240 swaps going on right now --- nice to have all the good reasons laid out in one place. Can't understand how all those V8 swap folks have gotten it so wrong....
Click to expand...

Ok, be honest - did you even know what an LFX was before reading this thread? How many quotes like yours could I find chiding JTR years ago about sticking TPI small blocks into volvos when "all those turbo redblock folks have gotten it so wrong..."

The RWD import platform arguable kicked off the LS swap crazy in the early 2000's. (I had just finished my Rx7 with a gen1 sbc swap when LS kits were hitting the market for Rx7's and Miatas). The Miata crowd is starting to buzz about the LFX, it'll be interesting to see if it kicks off a new "swap craze"
 
LOL - opinions vary. This ain't rocket surgery Mazda -- the LS swaps are mega popular for the same reason that sbc swaps, and to a lesser extent sbf's, had been for decades -- because GM, and to a lesser extent Ford, produced so many of them. They end up in the jy'ds by the millions --- supply exceeds demand and they're cheap. Cheap reliable HP (more importantly - torque, we'll get back to that) ends up swapping into everything. And that's why you won't see anywhere near as many of the V6 swaps out there. If you or the OP wanna swap the V6 -- go for it. It's nice to see something different. But suggesting it's about to be the next big thing for all these amazing reasons that most folks have just been missing...well, I don't think that's going to happen. Simple math (and common sense) argues against it.

More simple math - for all the talk of peak HP being about the same between the 5.3's and the V6's -- what's not the same is torque down low. It's not even close. And for most folks building cars for the street who want an upgrade in "power", what they really notice and enjoy is the significant upgrade in torque especially off-idle. The V8's win that battle hands down over the V6. I'll grant - in smaller cars like the Miata - the V6 offers a big torque/power upgrade over the stock 4 banger and fitment is easier than a V8. I can see why there's some attraction in this application. But I'll bet more V8's are swapped in than V6's. Shelby paved the way with the Cobra.

The "LS swap craze" wasn't kicked off by swapping them into imports....TONS more were being swapped into domestic muscle and hotrods before they started showing up in non-domestic stuff. Just like it's always been.

Even the new engine market/offerings bear this out. These folks know a thing or two about selling engines that get swapped into things. http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines 71 different crate engine/packages offered. 1 turbo 4 cylinder. 70 V8's. 29 of them LS variants. Which means 41 of them are still based on the old small block and big block architecture developed in the 50's...go figure. But no V6 offerings. Perhaps you should reach out to Chevy and explain how they're missing the boat. They can help kick off the V6 "craze" that you think is around the corner.
 
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Here in 'Murica the hotrod community has largely ignored everything that isn't a 90? V8, with a small exception for the Buick "LC2" that powered the turbo regals. These little high feature V6's have everything that made the LS1 such a popular motor almost 20 years ago, but I t's still a new swap idea - google "LFX swap" and you'll get a few hits on miatas and an one apparent rx8. Time will tell if it becomes popular enough for GM to offer a crate motor, but times are a changing, and OEM's are moving to the V6...
 
383Mazda said:
Time will tell if it becomes popular enough for GM to offer a crate motor, but times are a changing, and OEM's are moving to the V6...
Click to expand...

On the other hand, Ford just got rid of the V6 Mustang option. The OEM's are moving even more quickly to turbo 4's to replace naturally aspirated V6's and turbo V6's to replace V8's --- CAFE being what it has been.
 
383Mazda said:
Here in 'Murica the hotrod community has largely ignored everything that isn't a 90? V8, with a small exception for the Buick "LC2" that powered the turbo regals. These little high feature V6's have everything that made the LS1 such a popular motor almost 20 years ago, but I t's still a new swap idea - google "LFX swap" and you'll get a few hits on miatas and an one apparent rx8. Time will tell if it becomes popular enough for GM to offer a crate motor, but times are a changing, and OEM's are moving to the V6...
Click to expand...

Here in Murica everything but pushrod v8's have been ignored for all of the excellent reasons MH Yount espoused.

Everybody's got a love affair with a particular engine and I have a feeling yours is the LFX... which is totally cool.

I'd never heard of the lfx motor before the OP made the thread. It sounds pretty cool I'll admit. I like 4valves per cylinder and vvt. I'll bet you could make a bunch of power with a big single turbo. Hmm. Has anyone boosted one before? Will they lay down that bunch of hp on a stock block? I dunno.

I'd been familiar with the 3800 RWD swaps (meh) and definitely any/all of the toyota/nissan 6's and 8's (1j/2:hyper:j/1uz:oogle:)/(vq30/vq35-37/vh45:nod:) and even the BMW M50.... but at the end of the day (for me personally) I looked at the cost involved for any and all of the crazy **** you need for a swap (including specialty adapting parts) that my brain solved the equation quickly and computed = american v8. (sidebar... the 2jz fits the power-cost per dollar marker pretty well too and that still may yet see daylight in my engine bay.)

The sbf/sbc/lsx/2jz class of engine have developed a reputation of having chutzpah. I'm safe investing my hard earned dineros into one of those (instead of spending it on the house where it's much more needed).

The LFX kindof sounds like, well I don't know what it sounds like other than what I read on wikipedia about it. Maybe time will tell like you said and that's ok.
 
M.H. Yount said:
Hell -- just order up one of these:

http://www.lsxmag.com/news/mercury-...y-racing-releases-dohc-ls7-called-the-sb4-7-0
Click to expand...

Well, if I won the lottery I wouldn't be interested in a cheap v6 swap. I'd probably be on the phone with NRE trying to convince him that his reputation wouldn't get hurt by having one of his motors in a Volvo wagon :rofl:

I'm a huge LS fan myself, and have spent many posts defending it against the Mazda rotory crowd (I mean cult). In fact I've got a mildly built 6.0L ready to go into something... I just think this LFX could be another viable motor swap option. And if I can swap my practical cap for a dreamer cap, the ATS-V with a twin turbo V6 (the LF3/4) has been in the high 10's already with exhaust, intake, alcohol and a tune. And again, no exhaust manifolds takes out a ton of complication / cost...
 
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