Turbobricks Forums

Turbobricks Forums (https://forums.tbforums.com/index.php)
-   performance & modifications (https://forums.tbforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13)
-   -   LH2.2 Tuning For Non-Volvo Install (https://forums.tbforums.com/showthread.php?t=287824)

lookforjoe 11-24-2013 09:56 AM

LH2.2 Tuning For Non-Volvo Install
 
Edit: LH2.4 Conversion starting here: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showpo...9&postcount=64

Hello

Here's my dilemma: I want to use LH2.2 in my '87 X1/9 & get rid of the L-Jet.

https://s5.postimg.cc/js5hty1fr/X19_0534.jpg

https://s5.postimg.cc/5lpqypyaf/X19_0535.jpg

I have all the components from an '86 240. Tuning LH2.2 seems to be a problem based on the threads I've found on here. 1600cc motor vs. 2300cc.

Not practical to use LH2.4 since I have no speed signal, no crank signal & no practical way to add, especially the speed signal.

So, searching Tbricks, I found a couple of threads LH2.2 tuning and this one and this one.

My MAIN concern is modifying the fuel maps for the much smaller injectors (14lb vs. 20lb) that I will need to install for the 1600cc motor. Unless I'm much mistaken, that really should be the only area of concern.

I am planning on modifying a LH fuel rail and using LH style injectors in place of the low resistance L-Jet injectors, I've found Holley(522-1408) & Accel (150-114) injectors online in the appropriate flow rating.

Any words of wisdom from those that have played around with LH2.2?

EDIT: related (BMW) threads here and here

EDIT: Post with EZK & LH modding threads

Mueller 11-24-2013 10:06 AM

Turn down fuel pressure instead via regulator or PWM?

I am not sure how well the spray pattern would be at that level.

lookforjoe 11-24-2013 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mueller (Post 4751403)
Turn down fuel pressure instead via regulator or PWM?

I am not sure how well the spray pattern would be at that level.

Interesting thought - I haven't found any tables that show flow below the standard 42psi rating, so as you mentioned, spray pattern may be a concern. My injectors are about 50% smaller, so I think the required pressure drop would be significant.

vivalavolvo 11-24-2013 12:31 PM

If you used the volvo injectors wouldn't 2.2 just adjust based on air flow? Or is it not that flexible?

sbabbs 11-24-2013 12:50 PM

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showth...ighlight=simon

lookforjoe 11-24-2013 01:25 PM

Thanks for the link! Don't know why that one didn't show up - it's more recent.

I only need to modify Fuel ECU - so, I need a Ostrich, or can the original ECU be flashed? That is unclear to me?

The posts like this one, and the following 16x16 & 4x16 bit are greek to me, I'm not a programmer or Math person AT ALL, so I'll need to figure out the simplest possible way to address the fueling.

lookforjoe 11-24-2013 04:27 PM

I have LH2.2 & 2.4 ECU's (544, 554, 561)
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...ps9b27bd9d.jpg

and a couple of EZK boxes

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...psa98eb506.jpg

2.2 & 2.4 MAF

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...psddd31420.jpg

Don't recall now what they came from, but easy enough for me to access pretty much any other 200/700 ECU's

Maybe I should drill the flywheel for using a pulse wheel

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...ps24577b54.jpg

Problem would be ignition system - I already have a standalone electronic ignition system designed for this motor, making EZK work seems very problematic, and I still am without a practical way to provide a speed signal for 2.4...

lookforjoe 11-24-2013 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vivalavolvo (Post 4751459)
If you used the volvo injectors wouldn't 2.2 just adjust based on air flow? Or is it not that flexible?

I don't think it can drop almost 50% - unless I'm missing something, the 30lb injectors will still be delivering way to much fuel across the board.

EDIT: NA should be 21lb, not 30lb.

Mylesofsmyles 11-24-2013 04:51 PM

What about LH2.2 computers from smaller than Redblock engines?

Doesn't SAAB have a few LH2.2 cars with 2000cc and smaller motors? Look at VW too, they've got their 1.8L motors that might have a LH2.2 computer.

This thread is interesting to me...I've been in the market for a 2.3L Ford Ranger, and thought of LH2.2 to convert from carburetor...though they have a nice standalone EFI system that's just bolt in.

blkaplan 11-24-2013 05:16 PM

machining the flywheel for a 60-2 pattern should be pretty easy and a good way to add a timing sensor so you can run lh2.4. There seems to be much more support for tuning the lh2.4 ecu over the 2.2 stuff so you won't have to do as much tweaking.

you can burn a chip or run ostrich with certain 2.4 ecu's.

lookforjoe 11-24-2013 08:32 PM

I need to re-read the LH2.4 design & function manual - if I can use the fuel side only and forget the EZK, then it may work. I was mistaken about the injectors - 30lb is turbo, NA should be around 21lb, in which case, given a 30% adjustment rate, I nay just be able to tune using stock LH injectors.

lookforjoe 11-24-2013 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mylesofsmyles (Post 4751634)
What about LH2.2 computers from smaller than Redblock engines?
Doesn't SAAB have a few LH2.2 cars with 2000cc and smaller motors? Look at VW too, they've got their 1.8L motors that might have a LH2.2 computer.
in.

I'll research this end a little. I prefer to use Volvo parts when possible, just because I have ready access to all things 240/700.

Do you have any idea what VW models I should look at ? Golf / jetta perhaps?

nickm 11-25-2013 09:07 PM

Haven't some of the SAAB guys used ostrich on a lh2. I think the chip is compatible.

LH2.2 is pretty dumb there is no adaptation, so with the correct amm and O2 signals you could get it running. Would the AMM be a bit big?

Or a piggy back unit? http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_2418/article.html to know what direction to take for the maps - then burn a chip?

MrBill 11-25-2013 09:38 PM

if it's na, id just run the Volvo na injectors and stock fuel pressure. No tuning required. I think it'll work just fine.

Mylesofsmyles 11-25-2013 09:59 PM

Guys have run LH on their B20 motors...read 2.0L, which isn't too far from your 1.8L

vivalavolvo 11-25-2013 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mylesofsmyles (Post 4752792)
Guys have run LH on their B20 motors...read 2.0L, which isn't too far from your 1.8L

I run a B230 LH2.2 on my B21. Runs better then it ever has.

lookforjoe 11-26-2013 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mylesofsmyles (Post 4752792)
Guys have run LH on their B20 motors...read 2.0L, which isn't too far from your 1.8L

Mine's 1.6l - however point taken. I may just get some 16- 18lb injectors & see if I can tune it that way. Trying to weigh the viability of LH2.4 if I'm not using the Volvo ignition setup. Can't figure out from the LH2.4 what values are sent to the fuel ECU from the two signals. Also no description of the speed signal form - I need that too for idle control, no?

I can get a VW speedo sensor that will produce a pulse and fit the Fiat/Lancia gearbox, but I don't know if the wave form is compatible.

nickm 11-26-2013 09:47 PM

I think you would need to scope the signal. I have a feeling that one has something to do with the knock enrichment. LH2.2 uses no speed sensor. Only the dizzy hall sensor. So maybe gets info from the Ezk unit.

Hen 11-26-2013 10:08 PM

No speed signal is no problem for LH2.4 (you lose overrun fuel cut, but I drove without it for a year or so and never noticed the difference). And there are ways to get the crank signal required. So 2.4 could be a possibility.

Also why the need to tune 2.2 when using it on a smaller motor? It has an airflow meter, and given the smaller engine creates less airflow there will be less fuel injected. With stock injectors and stock fuel pressure you should be running pretty well. From what I've heard getting good ignition timing is often a trickier business.

sbabbs 11-27-2013 12:59 AM

Timing on lh2.2 is adjusted by moving the distributor. If you want to adjust the ignition map on the lh2.2 EZK this is how..

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showth...ighlight=simon

This is also a repost from my other post above these posts.... If you look at that last post in that thread are all the tools needed to tune your LH 2.2 ignition map... Now you will need a 40 pin DIP programmer and some blank chips. I got mine on ebay..

Simon

lookforjoe 11-27-2013 08:36 AM

Thanks Shabbs - I'm not using the Volvo ignition system, so I don't need to map for it. Good to know it can be done, though.

lookforjoe 11-27-2013 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hen (Post 4753935)
No speed signal is no problem for LH2.4 (you lose overrun fuel cut, but I drove without it for a year or so and never noticed the difference). And there are ways to get the crank signal required. So 2.4 could be a possibility.

Also why the need to tune 2.2 when using it on a smaller motor? It has an airflow meter, and given the smaller engine creates less airflow there will be less fuel injected. With stock injectors and stock fuel pressure you should be running pretty well. From what I've heard getting good ignition timing is often a trickier business.

Ok - good to know the speed signal missing doesn't affect drivability. The reason for tuning is simply to recalibrate for the lower fuel requirements. Bimmer users has stared that they had to pretty much lean out the MAF to the maximum lean to get it right - and that is for a larger displacement motor than mine. I would rather not be in a position where I have no where to go in terms of adjustment. I'm hoping that it will be offset by simply using lower flow injectors.

On that note, have people used later composite body high impedance injectors (like those used for whiteblocks, mustangs, etc) instead of the original style Bosch?

BDKR 11-27-2013 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookforjoe (Post 4754368)
Ok - good to know the speed signal missing doesn't affect drivability. The reason for tuning is simply to recalibrate for the lower fuel requirements. Bimmer users has stared that they had to pretty much lean out the MAF to the maximum lean to get it right - and that is for a larger displacement motor than mine. I would rather not be in a position where I have no where to go in terms of adjustment. I'm hoping that it will be offset by simply using lower flow injectors.

On that note, have people used later composite body high impedance injectors (like those used for whiteblocks, mustangs, etc) instead of the original style Bosch?

When the BMW chaps are talking about this, are they also talking about LH 2.2?

And isn't the very first and most basic thing to do with LH 2.2 is adjust it per these instructions....
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showpo...66&postcount=1

In the above article, they were adjusted to compensate for the larger injectors. Is this the method the BMW guys are using, if they are talking about 2.2.

This isn't to take away from tuning, but shouldn't this be a first step?

lookforjoe 11-29-2013 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDKR (Post 4754421)
When the BMW chaps are talking about this, are they also talking about LH 2.2?

This isn't to take away from tuning, but shouldn't this be a first step?

I've found a Saab thread on tuning LH2.2, so looks more like I should go that route to avoid all the potential issues and added cost of pulse wheels, EDIS wheels, etc.

Yes, the AMM adjustment is very straightforward, and with the Volvo tool (which I still have from my days @ Volvo in the '80's) is a no-brainer - but, there is a limited window of adjustment. The point is not to end up at the extreme end with no further latitude for adjustment. I'm getting EV1 16.7lb injectors, which will be inbetween the stock Fiat & Volvo flow rate.

The main reason for modding the fuel maps is to shift the entire operating window, so that the median adjustment is still in the 'normal' range for the system as it was intended.

Some of the SAAB guys have modded fuel maps & reprogammed chips, so I'm hoping I can pick their brains on that.

As was suggested here earlier, I ordered a SAAB LH2.2 ECU, as theirs is designed for smaller displacement, so a narrower margin. Apparently theirs also came with the removable chip, unlike the Volvo version.

Anyway, I'm just in gather parts mode now. I have to fabricate/mod a fuel rail to fit the motor/intake, and new lower runners with top mounted injector ports that will accept the later injectors. Stock L-Jet are same as old D-jet - they have a hose connection to the rail, and the phenolic spacer with three oring setup at the base - that mess has to go.

sbabbs 11-29-2013 01:42 PM

That's a good idea to use a Saab LH2.2 ECU as the volvo lh2.2 ecu's haven't been cracked in the fuel map remapping area... If you read what MrJaybreeze said about it, there's the one map and then the other map and it's real tricky.. Anyway yes there is that program to change the fuel map on the saab 2.2 ECU's. I do have a saab 538 ECU I think if you want it. Turbo one but I've found with the volvo 2.2 ecu's you can use them for turbo or not depending on what chip you put in it. Yes and all the saab ecu's I've taken apart at the junkyard all had the chip and I took it..

The other thing about tuning lh2.2 is the chip you have to program. It's a DIP configuration 24 pin 2732.

It can be a real pain in the ass to get the 2732 chip programmed properly.... It's an old chip design and it takes a real rock steady voltage. I have an old willhelm programmer with external power supply wall rat that's fully adjustable for vcc and tp and all that but it's still can be hard to do if you don't know what the programming voltage is supposed to be for the chip you got. All the 2732 chips can be different depending on who made the chip.. If you don't get the chip programmed properly it can not last very long.. Usually the programming voltage is 21 or so volts compared to the reading voltage which is 12. But can be 15 or 24 depends on chip. Some of those cheap USB programmers might not work with the 2732 chips.. My programmer uses the old parallel printer port.. If running windows XP to program turn off printer spooling.... Critical..

This is the site for all your Saab programming needs. Volvo stuff also.
http://ecuproject.com/index.html

Simon


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:30 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.