Turbobricks Forums

Turbobricks Forums (https://forums.tbforums.com/index.php)
-   performance & modifications (https://forums.tbforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13)
-   -   Volv Rex Regina ECU Chippable? (https://forums.tbforums.com/showthread.php?t=343330)

jvluntzel 07-11-2018 04:44 PM

Volv Rex Regina ECU Chippable?
 
Just like the title asks has anyone had experience modifying the tune on the stock chip of a Rex Regina car? I have a moates emu and burner. If no one knows ill grab a second ecu for testing.

jvluntzel 07-12-2018 01:11 PM

Well you guys have been a wealth of knowledge lol

I have done some research and found out A LOT.

First, Read the files located here:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...lpFVkdxSjVNS0E

This details the operation and configuration of the Bendix/Rex/Regina/Renix blah blah its all the same sh!t

So I know for sure Renault and Jeep have used these systems.Luckily there are big communities there that like to turbocharge and modify thier cars. Seeing as how the Renault Alpine (2.5 turbo) used it I know it is good for boost (validated by my turbo swapped 740 that is running great on 6 lbs).

I travelled down the rabbit hole....

and found this site:

http://www.fenixecu.com/injection-fenix

translate it into english and it gives a great detail about this EFI system, along with a page with downloads for documents and software...for modifying the tune :D (FYI if you didnt read the first link the Renix II can be tuned live...no need to pull chips n all that garbage)

I will be doing more digging and seeing what I can come up with :D

dl242gt 07-12-2018 04:23 PM

Good work. Since so much more tuning was done with Bosch or megasquirt here. I'd say you followed the route of the dark horse and it's good to see this working well.

sbabbs 07-12-2018 05:05 PM

So how do you tune it live? With a piggyback system or are you changing the program in the encrypted Motorola chip? How do you do it? I'm not gonna click on any links. Why not say how your re-tuning your Rex Regina volvo. Or I guess you haven't...

Broke4speed 07-12-2018 07:49 PM

I'm honestly very intrigued, but I think you might be getting ahead of yourself. How do you connect Rex/Regina to Fenix 1 or 2? The trigger wheels are both 44 teeth, and they're map-based...but I'm not sure if the code is the same. Fenix 1/2 seems to be from the mid 80s, and Rex/Regina was used up to the early 90s, which is a huge gulf of time when you're talking about EFI technology.

Do you have any bin files from Volvo Regina and Fenix1 or 2 to compare? That'd help :).

jvluntzel 07-12-2018 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbabbs (Post 5825050)
So how do you tune it live? With a piggyback system or are you changing the program in the encrypted Motorola chip? How do you do it? I'm not gonna click on any links. Why not say how your re-tuning your Rex Regina volvo. Or I guess you haven't...

uhm...ok well since you clearly stated your not clinking links then youre going to be out of the loop. Too much info to just write here. There are multiple 10 + page pdfs from the creators of the Rex Regina Renix Bendix EFI clearly stating how to do what you asked.

I have not done it yet (again clearly stated)

It really helps if you read the thread and if you dont want to click the links dont post questions that are already answered :oogle::-P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broke4speed (Post 5825139)
I'm honestly very intrigued, but I think you might be getting ahead of yourself. How do you connect Rex/Regina to Fenix 1 or 2? The trigger wheels are both 44 teeth, and they're map-based...but I'm not sure if the code is the same. Fenix 1/2 seems to be from the mid 80s, and Rex/Regina was used up to the early 90s, which is a huge gulf of time when you're talking about EFI technology.

Do you have any bin files from Volvo Regina and Fenix1 or 2 to compare? That'd help :).


I hear you 100%. I am looking more into the Renix III which was developed for the early 90s (renault alpine v6 turbo and the like)

The code may not be the same but the way it is written and the chip size is. Im going to grab a few extra Rex ECUs from the jyard this weekend and see if the bin files are the same or not and ill upload the dumps to an open google drive that will be linked and accessible here.

also needless to say. F&$K the bosch haters

sbabbs 07-13-2018 12:48 AM

I asked how you are reading the chips in the ECU. How do you do that? Can you tell me that so I don't have to read 10 PDF's.

What is the chip in the regina ECU that you take out of the socket and read the bin from? Or do you have to Jtag it and power it up and read it that way? How do you do it once again? There are only a few ways to read data on chips, which way you doing it? How would you then reprogram it? I suspect there are only surface mount chips in the Regina. Good luck Regina lover. I could help..

jvluntzel 07-13-2018 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbabbs (Post 5825221)
I asked how you are reading the chips in the ECU. How do you do that? Can you tell me that so I don't have to read 10 PDF's.

What is the chip in the regina ECU that you take out of the socket and read the bin from? Or do you have to Jtag it and power it up and read it that way? How do you do it once again? There are only a few ways to read data on chips, which way you doing it? How would you then reprogram it? I suspect there are only surface mount chips in the Regina. Good luck Regina lover. I could help..

Thats valid, sorry if I came off wrong :ohjoy:

This is where the way to OEMs could tune from factory, maybe it will help shed some light

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/842/42...1f025f3b_b.jpg

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1825/4...9200573e_b.jpg

sbabbs 07-13-2018 02:56 PM

I guess the first step is post some pictures of the inside of the rex/regina ECU and ignition box so I can see what is in them. I might have a rex ignition box laying around. I'll see if I can find it.

linuxman51 07-13-2018 03:03 PM

last one I looked at was all sealed up, but it's been a while. I'm willing to bet at the very least op is in for socketing the ecu, but it could be fun. good luck!

dl242gt 07-13-2018 03:04 PM

I looked up the 68701 IC and it's an 1mhz 8 bit cpu with 2k of program memory and 128 bytes of ram. Totally 80s high tech yo. So the main bulk of the programming for the engine calibration is probably in the eprom.

jvluntzel 07-13-2018 03:55 PM

Ill get some pictures later today.

I have joined in with the megasquirt forums in france as they have a lot of experience and they are gathering information for me to utilize. Also there are some jeep people that have made a diagnostics and tuning display controller that connects to their diagnostic port.

Looking to get some things rolling :)

bobxyz 07-13-2018 07:39 PM

The Motorola 68701 is the EPROM version of the 6801, a successor to the 6800 and a predecessor of the much better 68HC11.
http://www.happytrees.org/main-image...CU).JPG_sm.jpg

I don't know if you can still find surplus chips, nor if you can find a programmer that will work with something so old. At least it's a 40-pin DIP and not some oddball package. It probably needs 20+ volts for programming, so some modern programmers won't work.

Here's a picture of a hacked Renix 1 D501 ECU, with the external ROM replaced, from here:
http://www.renaultalpineownersclub.c...php?f=8&t=6462
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/...pscaea4dcb.jpg

Not sure if this Renault Renix ECU is similar to the Volvo version.

sbabbs 07-13-2018 08:39 PM

We'll if the program is on that 68701 40 pin cpu chip then what I'd do is desolder it out of the board and read it with my willem and I got the optional 40 dip pin socket board for it. It's what I use to program up the lh2.2 EZK boxes. They have similar 40 pin dip cpu memory chip. Yes they are hard to program successfully. I even had to modify my 40 pin dip adapter so it would then work. I use windows XP machine and turn off printer spooling and a willem with parallel port and external power supply. There is no way one of those USB powered cheapo programmers would work on these old chips. Then I'd put 40 pin dip socket in and program up a new modified chip and do it that way. I wouldn't waste my time trying to figure out how to add another socket and memory chip like in that pic, mainly because I can program those old 40 pin dip ECU ram chips.

Here is that lh2.2 EZK developement thread with details on the 40 pin dip programmer and adapter and how to modify it to get it to work.

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=268066

jvluntzel 07-13-2018 11:22 PM

Here is my ECU:

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1804/2...a303b00a_b.jpg

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/920/43...68ffe19e_b.jpg

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1807/4...793be5e1_b.jpg

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1823/4...0a271d04_b.jpg

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1785/4...bdc7a3f5_b.jpg

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/920/43...cf9df0a8_b.jpg

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/924/29...e7a2903a_b.jpg

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/914/43...8ea86264_b.jpg

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1808/2...e28e23bc_b.jpg

jvluntzel 07-13-2018 11:32 PM

Also I cleaned up the part # for that main motorola chip:

ZC407531VFN
5491004A
B95T
QQZJ9043

sbabbs 07-14-2018 01:01 PM

Can you find a data sheet for that chip? Looks like a surface mount CPU chip with ram built in probably with the program and data on that main big chip. It could be easily de-soldered and taken off and put in the right chip reader adapter and read if the chip is known to be readable. Being Motorolla might be nothing on it out there anywhere known. Other option is jtag it where you hook your puter to the sucker with parallel port thingy and read chip without taking it off, but where to hook the tag and all that, still need data sheet.

bobxyz 07-14-2018 04:17 PM

Your pictures are much different that the chipped Renix pictures I found.

I can decipher a little of your chip code, and can add some guesses too.

ZC407531VFN << this is a custom motorola CPU part number, the VFN is an Automotive Temperature Range, 52-pin PLCC package
5491004A << this is probably the customer part number (Bendix #)
B95T << this is probably the customer revision number
QQZJ9043 << this is mask and date code, 9043 = manufactured in 43rd week of 1990

Based on the Motorola CPU progression, I'd guess that this chip is a MC68HC11A8 with a custom ROM program from Bendix. The custom ROM is built into the chip during manufacturing -- one of the photo-lithography steps used to build the silicon chip is specially modified to include the customer ROM code. It can't be changed, and probably can't be read out. It might also be a proprietary CPU version with extra features added by Bendix (but probably based on a 68HC11 or the earlier 68HC01U4).

The 8-pin DIP with a ST logo might be a small EEPROM (e.g. 24C04), with a Bendix part number instead of the original STMicro #.

jvluntzel 07-14-2018 11:21 PM

Thanks for the information!

I had just read an article that confirms what you are saying about this motorola chip not able to be changed. This doesnt worry me though as apparently this particular 52 pin chip was only used in 1990. 1991-1993 used a soldered external rom

source:

https://forums.tbforums.com/showthread.php?t=41499

There is a junkyard near me with a few 1991-1993 Regina cars and I will be grabbing the ECUs to confirm

sbabbs 07-15-2018 12:15 PM

Back to how you gonna change the program in your encrypted motorolla chip.. If you wanna take that 8 pin dip chip out and send it to me I could try and read it and see if it's a eprom. Doesn't look like a eeprom to me, doesn't have the erase window.

jvluntzel 07-15-2018 01:28 PM

Read my last post

jvluntzel 07-16-2018 11:50 AM

Does anyone have a 1991-1993 Rex Regina ECU they can open up so we can see if the information about it having an external rom or the motorola 68701 can be confirmed? I wont be able to get one for another week or so.

oldnfast 07-16-2018 02:47 PM

My new to me 92 740 is a Regina car,and since I haven't started driving it yet would be happy to open it up. I'll send you pics as I don't know what to look for.

jvluntzel 07-17-2018 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldnfast (Post 5826694)
My new to me 92 740 is a Regina car,and since I haven't started driving it yet would be happy to open it up. I'll send you pics as I don't know what to look for.

You rock!

Thanks so much! :D Just look at the pictures I posted above and send about the same

Also, from the French Renault forums, I was sent this link: (just use chrome and translate)

http://pquillon.chez-alice.fr/Index/monlabo.htm

Lots of great info on here

oldnfast 07-17-2018 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jvluntzel (Post 5827091)
You rock!

Thanks so much! :D Just look at the pictures I posted above and send about the same

Also, from the French Renault forums, I was sent this link: (just use chrome and translate)

http://pquillon.chez-alice.fr/Index/monlabo.htm

Lots of great info on here

Just checked the car,I have the same ecu as yours above


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:08 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.