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-   -   Mr.Borrie’s 242 LPG turbo project. (https://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=248088)

Mr.Borrie 11-28-2011 05:17 AM

Mr.Borrie’s 242 LPG turbo project.
 
Engine/Transmission:
Plan:
- B230FK
- 740 AW71
- 240 AW71 driveshaft
- 240 LH 2.4 NA loom
- LH2.4 NA to turbo AMM converter
- 940 chiped ECU's
- LPG injection
- Injection tank from 245 turbo
- Petrol pumps 245 turbo
- Wasted spark


https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-0...o/volvo323.JPG


Suspension:
Plan
- OEM upper GT Brace
- OEM lower GT Brace
- IPD Swaybars
- Koni Red shocks front and back
- Lowerin springs front. Stiff springs in the back

[Pic Of Suspension]


Exterior/ Lights

[IMG]insert image[/IMG]

Plan:
- Restored the rust
- Repaint bad parts
- Start welding up and doing rust prevention
- Restore and custom to fit bodykit



Interior:
Plan
- Beige race buckets seats
- Reupholser or remove backseat


[IMG]insert image[/IMG]


Audio/Entertainment:
Plan


When i bought the car:

Engine/Transmission:
- Broken B21 engine
- BW55 transmission
- OEM interior
- aftermarket radio
- LPG for carb

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/1723/img0065gd.jpg
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9522/img0105kz.jpg
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/9657/img3457zln.jpg




Here are the plans for the car, i will keep the main post updated along the way with items on the list and the most recent pics



Original post:

I’m getting this car from a friend of mine ever since he bought it 3 years ago it has been parked. Body is solid and has a carb engine auto tranny and LPG. I already got him a B230K engine to throw back in there but he never did anything.
Now I am getting the car and I want to go a different way. I want to put the a B230FK in there and make it LPG injected. It would be nice to have it also run on petrol just in case so I’ m facing a dilemma. There are many ways I can do this with the parts i got

LH2.4 loom 240
2x MS setups with sensors
B230FK Engine
AW71 Tranny

Ignition

1. Put in a LH2.4 loom from a 240 (got it) and a LPG injection system

2. LH 2.4 loom and LPG injection with MS (possible?)

3. MS petrol injection and LPG injection (same box possible with switch?)

I think if possible the Lh2.4 with the MS LPG injection would be the nicest but dont know if possible or how to do that i read bozma’s topic and i liked what i saw but i dont think he runs petrol?

Than there is the autobox issue, i think this has the BW55, should i swap the AW71 i got here in with the BW55 end for the km line and does the axle fit with the BW55 one?

What kind of petrol pump should i use and what are good tips for the petroltank?

Those are the things im thinking about right now im sure im missing allot of other things if so let me know.

Pic will come later

Ruben 11-28-2011 05:28 AM

:omg:

Why run 2 MS units?
Why use LH2.4 wiring if you'll be going MS?
Why swap in a different engine if it already has one? (is the current no good?)
Why complicate things and go turbo? Maybe just swap wat you have that will get it running asap.
Why get another project apart from the other 7 cars?
Why not just get it running, sell it, make some profit so you can go racing with the 360 and turn that into something that can compete?
Don't you think a project like this will be a bit out of your league?

You know where this is coming from. I've got a car problem but you are..... autoholic/carholic?

Easiest and cheapest way to go LPG turbo is probably like the Aussies do.

JonBot 11-28-2011 05:33 AM

LPG turbo


http://magnetoboldtoo.files.wordpres...terest-cat.jpg

Fivehundred 11-28-2011 05:36 AM

Surely the most obvious way to go is to use LH 2.4 with a proprietary sequential injection LPG system? Prins etc do the system, BlaBla has a chip to get it to fuel properly.

Mr.Borrie 11-28-2011 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruben (Post 3970355)
:omg:

Why run 2 MS units?
Why use LH2.4 wiring if you'll be going MS?
Why swap in a different engine if it already has one? (is the current no good?)
Why complicate things and go turbo? Maybe just swap wat you have that will get it running asap.
Why get another project apart from the other 7 cars?
Why not just get it running, sell it, make some profit so you can go racing with the 360 and turn that into something that can compete?
Don't you think a project like this will be a bit out of your league?

You know where this is coming from. I've got a car problem but you are..... autoholic/carholic?

Easiest and cheapest way to go LPG turbo is probably like the Aussies do.

I think LPG and turbo is intresting. Also i dont have any experience with MS yet so i want to digg into it and play with it. WR wont be running soon cause of the rebuild so a cheap turbo car would be nice.

Oh and there is a busted engine in there it does not run now so it will need a new engine no mather what. And why would it be out of my league im in no hurry and with the shop im getting i dont mind having a LPG injection system project i can look into when i feel like it.
So no i dont think this is silly, its a learning thing. I dont need it running but it would be cool to get it running swaping in the B230K is a matter of a days work if it wont work

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonBot (Post 3970357)

yeah i think this is intresting, bozma got me exited a long time ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fivehundred (Post 3970358)
Surely the most obvious way to go is to use LH 2.4 with a proprietary sequential injection LPG system? Prins etc do the system, BlaBla has a chip to get it to fuel properly.

yeah that would be the easy way i agree, but why no MS and LPG injection? too expensive/complicated you think?

Fivehundred 11-28-2011 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Borrie (Post 3970361)

yeah that would be the easy way i agree, but why no MS and LPG injection? too expensive/complicated you think?

It should work, but the point about the piggy back LPG systems is that you don't need to duplicate everything. The car effectively thinks it always runs on petrol as it looks at the factory temperature sensors, oxygen sensor and MAF.

For something with a mild tweak that ought to work well, tried, tested, readily set up. I'm not questioning whether it can be made to work, I just question whether re-inventing the wheel is worth the bother.

Given that most of us have a finite budget you may well get a bigger bang for the buck by spending the money on upping the compression ratio and using off the shelf bits wherever possible.

Mr.Borrie 11-28-2011 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fivehundred (Post 3970372)
It should work, but the point about the piggy back LPG systems is that you don't need to duplicate everything. The car effectively thinks it always runs on petrol as it looks at the factory temperature sensors, oxygen sensor and MAF.

For something with a mild tweak that ought to work well, tried, tested, readily set up. I'm not questioning whether it can be made to work, I just question whether re-inventing the wheel is worth the bother.

Given that most of us have a finite budget you may well get a bigger bang for the buck by spending the money on upping the compression ratio and using off the shelf bits wherever possible.

You got a point there. What system would you recomand and where would i get this for a decent price? Any links where i can read into this. i'm new to gas injection as a whole

Mr.Borrie 11-28-2011 07:09 AM

Oh and does anybody knows if a 940/760 turbo downpipe clears the 242, would also be one thing off the list since i have those.

Cojones 11-28-2011 07:43 AM

I made a post in this topic, and somehow it's gone. Anyway, there we go again: Why LPG?

bjorny 11-28-2011 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cojones (Post 3970382)
I made a post in this topic, and somehow it's gone. Anyway, there we go again: Why LPG?

-a (presumably) road tax free 242
-oldtimer insurance
-LPG

thats not rocket science eh? cheapcheapcheap driving.. mind you, im not a fan of LPG too (even though my 3 previous volvos had LPG)

Aussie Volvo 11-28-2011 08:17 AM

Hi

I am intrested in you progress on the conversion.

I am interested in doing a going to do a straight gas conversion on my 82 244 and later if I do a B230ft conversion I would like to do straight gas injection setup

But the LPG injection is still fairly new in Australia mostly dual fuel with the standard ems and a secondary computer to run the LPG injector

Mr.Borrie 11-28-2011 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cojones (Post 3970382)
I made a post in this topic, and somehow it's gone. Anyway, there we go again: Why LPG?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjorny (Post 3970389)
-a (presumably) road tax free 242
-oldtimer insurance
-LPG

thats not rocket science eh? cheapcheapcheap driving.. mind you, im not a fan of LPG too (even though my 3 previous volvos had LPG)

bjorny is right the car is a 1977 one and already has LPG registerd.
LPG makes a cheap driver like the 144 but with the added kick of a turbo, thats why i dont want to take the easy way on it and put the B230k in it. Already have a B20 on LPG.

And yeah LPG is not great i preffer a quick gas gussler too.. thats why i have White-Rice :-)


Quote:

Originally Posted by Aussie Volvo (Post 3970390)
Hi

I am intrested in you progress on the conversion.

I am interested in doing a going to do a straight gas conversion on my 82 244 and later if I do a B230ft conversion I would like to do straight gas injection setup

But the LPG injection is still fairly new in Australia mostly dual fuel with the standard ems and a secondary computer to run the LPG injector

I think 500 has a point with using the LH2.4 with a Prince system. already looking for used and new systems and how the systems work. new too it aswell.
Might be intresting to try out the wastedspark mod on this aswell

Janspeed 11-28-2011 09:26 AM

Boris, you know that i have owned a B230FK with LH2.4 and vialle LPi system.
I tried to tune it but the problem is that the vialle system is always following what LH2.4 is doing for gasoline. Not ideal. (The Prins system might do the same but i don't know for sure.)
if you change something on the gasoline system it effects the way that the LPG system is functioning. It severely limits what you can do with the tune of the engine. 190-200hp is all that could be extracted without one of the fuel systems going extremely lean under boost.

If i had to start all over again i would have megasquirted (or KDFi) the car using Keihin vapor injectors. (the way Jeroen Bosma did it in his 242GT-B230FK)
Then you can switch between 2 fuel mappings: gasoline and LPG. Or maybe even a 3rd mapping: E85. And all mappings can be taylored perfectly to the fuel you are using.
It has another advantage: you can rigg it in such a way that you are not forced to start the car on gasoline.(which is a PITA) Direct starting on LPG.

wasted spark on a LPG car: excellent idea! The rear mounted dizzy of the B230FK is a weakspot in the ign system. when using LPG you need a strong dependable spark.

Cojones 11-28-2011 09:48 AM

Bjorny and Boris, please quit the rocketscience cheap daily driver crap. Do you guys even follow the news? I'm not completely sure that road tax-free cars stay free of additional LPG and diesel taxes...

Edit: Nevermind, it's only for cars that are becoming tax-free, not for cars that are already tax free.

Mr.Borrie 11-28-2011 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janspeed (Post 3970412)
Boris, you know that i have owned a B230FK with LH2.4 and vialle LPi system.
I tried to tune it but the problem is that the vialle system is always following what LH2.4 is doing for gasoline. Not ideal. (The Prins system might do the same but i don't know for sure.)
if you change something on the gasoline system it effects the way that the LPG system is functioning. It severely limits what you can do with the tune of the engine. 190-200hp is all that could be extracted without one of the fuel systems going extremely lean under boost.

If i had to start all over again i would have megasquirted (or KDFi) the car using Keihin vapor injectors. (the way Jeroen Bosma did it in his 242GT-B230FK)
Then you can switch between 2 fuel mappings: gasoline and LPG. Or maybe even a 3rd mapping: E85. And all mappings can be taylored perfectly to the fuel you are using.
It has another advantage: you can rigg it in such a way that you are not forced to start the car on gasoline.(which is a PITA) Direct starting on LPG.

wasted spark on a LPG car: excellent idea! The rear mounted dizzy of the B230FK is a weakspot in the ign system. when using LPG you need a strong dependable spark.

Yeah i remebered, i dont have high powergoals for that car btw.
But that link to bozma looks intresting too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cojones (Post 3970419)
Bjorny and Boris, please quit the rocketscience cheap daily driver crap. Do you guys even follow the news? I'm not completely sure that road tax-free cars stay free of additional LPG and diesel taxes...

Edit: Nevermind, it's only for cars that are becoming tax-free, not for cars that are already tax free.

Burn

Cojones 11-28-2011 10:55 AM

Love you!

Mr.Borrie 11-28-2011 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cojones (Post 3970448)
Love you!

Love you too man, if you need some help with that citroen let me know

Cojones 11-28-2011 11:36 AM

Got some weldin' to do. Yeaaah, and maybe some LPG to install ;)

Anyway, curious to see this project. And the shop. Is there some shopwarming session coming up?

Mr.Borrie 11-28-2011 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cojones (Post 3970474)
Got some weldin' to do. Yeaaah, and maybe some LPG to install ;)

Anyway, curious to see this project. And the shop. Is there some shopwarming session coming up?

yeah maybe a minimeet would be nice for the people that like to see the new place. beginning of next year i will start building up the place

Cojones 11-28-2011 11:48 AM

Keep me posted :oogle:

Funkee 11-28-2011 12:35 PM

To me LPG is a lot more reliable (if maintained properly) than petrol, has a lot less parts, easier to adjust and potentially more powerful than petrol due to the higher octane rating. Furthermore it's environment friendlier (blah), so it's ridiculous (and unexplainable) there's a higher tax on it.. But whtvr

LPG allows for a higher compression, which makes it perfect for turbo/SC or N/A high CR applications.
Impco offers some good blow-through LPG mixer, and theres a lot of information on Australian (V8) forums. (AussieV8)

I built my Chevy engine just for LPG, I broke it in on petrol but with 13.5:1 CR and a ignition recurve it performs way better than it did on petrol.

Also my B230F already does 564K kms on LPG with hardly any problems. Same with the B23 in the 242, but that one only has 142K kms :)

volvomaniac 11-28-2011 12:59 PM

Hi everyone, I run LPG on LH2.4 B200FT (940, 1995) and it's pretty much OK.
Well, almost OK.
I got AC Autogas STAG200-4 system, bought chip from blabla, so mpg is way better now, map is so called ''perfect'', but the problem is idle.
When I increase injectors pulse, I can run until limit without problem and idle is very very poor and rough, but when I reduce injector pulse idle is perfect and on the other side car runs poor especially in boost (like runs out of fuel).
I guess that I have insufficiently large nozzles... They installed 2,7mm (max is 3,0mm).
What do you think???

Mr.Borrie 11-28-2011 02:21 PM

Here is the reason for the new engine

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6999/img0114ig6.jpg

And the car

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/1723/img0065gd.jpg
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/3743/img0064qn.jpg
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9522/img0105kz.jpg

And the bodykit that comes with it, looks like this (or is) this one. i dont remeber its been a while

http://www.volvo300club.nl/discus/messages/29/9185.jpg

Janspeed 11-28-2011 02:30 PM

good score! that body kit is pimpin' ;-)

Cojones 11-28-2011 02:35 PM

Boris is pimpin'.


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