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-   -   Aeromotive FPR - be careful (https://forums.tbforums.com/showthread.php?t=337594)

Tfrasca 11-14-2017 12:44 AM

Aeromotive FPR - be careful
 
So, I've had this Aeromotive FPR on my 142 since I did the engine swap. It's about 6 months old, I'd say.

It never help line pressure after the pumps primed, and the needle on the gauge always fluctuated up to 7-8 psi. I was getting my TLAO chips dialed in with my light blue (390cc?) injectors, but I couldn't escape a nasty lean condition under boost toward 5k rpm. Increased fuel pressure to 58 psi, and the FPR would BARELY get there. It should be capable of 30-70psi base pressure, so I took it apart to see what was up.

Sure enough, the hole that the ball valve should seal against was worn unevenly. They apparently just drill a hole, after the base is already anodized, and don't put a radius or chamfer on it. I used a counter sink bit and milled a chamfer on the seat by hand, carefully.

It seals much better now. Still leaks residual pressure after 10-15 seconds, but holds running pressure rock steady on the gauge. I've adjusted FP back down to 43 psi and am actually a bit rich at 12 psi with a 19t.

TL;DR - Be careful with these Aeromotive FPRs. Had I not installed a wideband when I did, I probably would have lost a piston...

culberro 11-14-2017 01:00 AM

I had one start leaking about a month ago due to a leak in the diagrams, and it was only 3 years old.

Tfrasca 11-14-2017 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by culberro (Post 5705770)
I had one start leaking about a month ago, and it was only 3 years old.

From the diaphragm? I also noticed the AN plug I used (provided by the FPR supplier) to plug the second input was very slightly fouling on the metal part of the diaphragm. I'm sure that would have caused issues if left unchecked.

I'm still leery of leaving this thing on here. Did you replace the Aeromotive with something else?

wennstroma 11-14-2017 01:11 AM

I've had this "trick flow by aeromotive" one for about 7 years now.

It usually won't hold rest pressure for more than 10-20 minutes, but once in a while it does. Running fuel pressure has always been pretty solid and I even initially cranked the base pressure way up to test the system for leaks and it didn't have fluctuations.

I always thought about opening it to see if the rest pressure could be improved, but never have.

Tfrasca 11-14-2017 01:17 AM

10-20 minutes is light years ahead of what mine does. Even after trying to improve the seat, mine will drop residual pressure in less than 30 seconds.

This problem has been documented by some Evo guys years ago, but it would seem that Aeromotive's machining practices haven't changed. Here's the Evo thread, for pictures in case you ever decide to crack yours open.

gsellstr 11-14-2017 01:44 AM

Man, that's kinda sad. I thought they were one of the better brands. Any chance you maybe ended up with a knockoff? Just curious, knowing how much knockoff stuff is out there.

Tfrasca 11-14-2017 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsellstr (Post 5705786)
Man, that's kinda sad. I thought they were one of the better brands. Any chance you maybe ended up with a knockoff? Just curious, knowing how much knockoff stuff is out there.

I suppose it's possible that mine is a knockoff. But, the Aeromotive FAQ acknowledges the poor seal as it pertains to holding residual line pressure. And that's the same problem that causes erratic running pressure.

gsellstr 11-14-2017 01:48 AM

Ahh, so they know about it, but haven't bothered to fix it...gotcha...

cosbySweater 11-14-2017 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tfrasca (Post 5705767)
So, I've had this Aeromotive FPR on my 142 since I did the engine swap. It's about 6 months old, I'd say.

It never help line pressure after the pumps primed, and the needle on the gauge always fluctuated up to 7-8 psi. I was getting my TLAO chips dialed in with my light blue (390cc?) injectors, but I couldn't escape a nasty lean condition under boost toward 5k rpm. Increased fuel pressure to 58 psi, and the FPR would BARELY get there. It should be capable of 30-70psi base pressure, so I took it apart to see what was up.

Sure enough, the hole that the ball valve should seal against was worn unevenly. They apparently just drill a hole, after the base is already anodized, and don't put a radius or chamfer on it. I used a counter sink bit and milled a chamfer on the seat by hand, carefully.

It seals much better now. Still leaks residual pressure after 10-15 seconds, but holds running pressure rock steady on the gauge. I've adjusted FP back down to 43 psi and am actually a bit rich at 12 psi with a 19t.

TL;DR - Be careful with these Aeromotive FPRs. Had I not installed a wideband when I did, I probably would have lost a piston...

What main pump are you running? what are you doing for wiring? do you have a inline check valve fitting on the pump. mine drops off pressure after i turn the key off like instantly but that is because no check valve on the pump and im using a in tank. base fuel pressure is at 38 in vacuum and doesnt run lean all the way up to 17psi

Tfrasca 11-14-2017 02:20 AM

Bosch pump from a 240 turbo, with a good check valve. Once I fixed the FPR, the lean condition was fixed.

centason 11-14-2017 02:52 AM

Areomotive's older stuff used to be spot on. Great FPR.

culberro 11-14-2017 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tfrasca (Post 5705774)
From the diaphragm? I also noticed the AN plug I used (provided by the FPR supplier) to plug the second input was very slightly fouling on the metal part of the diaphragm. I'm sure that would have caused issues if left unchecked.

I'm still leery of leaving this thing on here. Did you replace the Aeromotive with something else?

Yep. It started leaking fuel out of the reference pressure nipple.

DET17 11-14-2017 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by centason (Post 5705802)
Areomotive's older stuff used to be spot on. Great FPR.

Agreed. Have one on my Chevelle with EFI, and it's been rock solid without issues.

A 6 month old product certainly should have warranty service from AERO.... have you called them? I'm betting they will replace if you purchased new.

tryingbe 11-14-2017 08:14 AM

I like my stock BOSCH fuel pressure regulator.

poulrais 11-14-2017 08:38 AM

Mine looses residual pressure instantly also. Running an Aeromotive A1000 external pump with no check valve. Pressure on the gauge is rock steady at 42 psi when the car is running and my datalogs did not show any pressure drops that would've messed up my AFRs and injector's duty cycle.

What are the other options for a good adjustable FPR? What about this one from AEM:

http://www.aemelectronics.com/produc...sure-regulator

MadDog_945 11-14-2017 09:43 AM

watch out.. there are really much piracy knockoffs out there...

https://www.aeromotiveinc.com/buyer-...ne-aeromotive/

Tfrasca 11-14-2017 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tryingbe (Post 5705841)
I like my stock BOSCH fuel pressure regulator.

I couldn't fit a stock one on my fuel rail due to some packaging restraints. Plus, it's really nice to be able to fine tune fuel pressure.

Tfrasca 11-14-2017 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DET17 (Post 5705829)
Agreed. Have one on my Chevelle with EFI, and it's been rock solid without issues.

A 6 month old product certainly should have warranty service from AERO.... have you called them? I'm betting they will replace if you purchased new.

I have contacted the seller, so we'll see what happens.

Wilford Brimley 11-14-2017 10:52 AM

How did you put it on the stock rail

Tfrasca 11-14-2017 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadDog_945 (Post 5705865)
watch out.. there are really much piracy knockoffs out there...

https://www.aeromotiveinc.com/buyer-...ne-aeromotive/

Man, that's discouraging. People are literally the worst. A large bicycle company I once worked for had a guy whose full time job it was to track down counterfeit bikes. It's amazing how many there were.

In my case, my seller seems legit, and isn't on that list, for whatever that's worth. I also have the much less frequently ripped off model.

Tfrasca 11-14-2017 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilford Brimley (Post 5705885)
How did you put it on the stock rail

I made my fuel rail, and the back end is too close to the firewall, and the front is too close to the plenum and plug wires. I mounted the FPR to the firewall at the booster:

https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...g?format=1500w

142 guy 11-14-2017 12:12 PM

Interesting

I was running a slightly different version of the Aeromotive FPR on my 142 with the original B20E engine.

https://www.aeromotiveinc.com/produc...ass-regulator/

My take is that the primary difference is that this regulator has an optional spring which allows lower operating pressures.

Like others, I noticed that on shut down the regulator would allow loss of fuel pressure very quickly. The bigger problem I encountered was irregularities in fuel pressure, particularly spikes in fuel pressure and a lot of noise from the FPR. In particular the FPR seemed to have a lot of valve chatter anytime the FPR was by-passing lots of fuel. When driving, if you lifted the gas pedal quickly the FPR would howl - being mounted on the firewall made for a great sounding board and lots of noise.

By experimentation, I discovered that this Aeromotive FPR is acutely sensitive to back pressure on the fuel return line and it has a problem managing pressures at low flow (high by-pass) rates. I improved operation slightly by making sure that all the bends on the discharge were very large radius >15cm. Aeromotive's technical support suggested that the problem was that the return line was too small. In their technical documents the minimum recommended return line is 3/8" and the stock return line on the 142 E is 5/16". I ultimately solved the problem by using an FPR for a Nissan 280 ZX. Non adjustable, does not look as trick; but, provides consistent reliable operation.

As an observation. If your regulator is chattering it will cause accelerated wear on the control orifice and other problems. Depending on how you have the FPR mounted you may not notice the valve chatter. Also, if you have large fuel return lines you may not encounter the back pressure problem.

brian smith 11-14-2017 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tfrasca (Post 5705767)
So, I've had this Aeromotive FPR on my 142 since I did the engine swap. It's about 6 months old, I'd say.

It never help line pressure after the pumps primed, and the needle on the gauge always fluctuated up to 7-8 psi. I was getting my TLAO chips dialed in with my light blue (390cc?) injectors, but I couldn't escape a nasty lean condition under boost toward 5k rpm. Increased fuel pressure to 58 psi, and the FPR would BARELY get there. It should be capable of 30-70psi base pressure, so I took it apart to see what was up.

Sure enough, the hole that the ball valve should seal against was worn unevenly. They apparently just drill a hole, after the base is already anodized, and don't put a radius or chamfer on it. I used a counter sink bit and milled a chamfer on the seat by hand, carefully.

I'm glad I saw this before installing mine. So what do we think, would a 60 degree taper countersink be better than a 45 degree for this?

Tfrasca 11-14-2017 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian smith (Post 5705963)
I'm glad I saw this before installing mine. So what do we think, would a 60 degree taper countersink be better than a 45 degree for this?

In a perfect world, I assume a matched radius would be best. I used a 45, and it's marginal. 60 would give it more room to settle in, I assume.

shaved240 11-15-2017 09:08 PM

my Aeromotive FPR never holds any pressure when the car is off. Always thought that was kind of odd.


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