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DET17's "Project cheap thrills" - '92 944T

what a perfect DD. maybe it's the grade it's on, or how it is loaded, but it seems to be riding particularly high in the front.

Stock IPD sport springs....I have considered cutting a half coil up top, but going to put about 10K miles on it and then decide. I can't get my floor jack under the cross-member now without putting a factory jack behind one of the front wheels! Thanks for the kind words :-D
 
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Garrett T3 upgrade with FORGE CBV

Time for the next installment. In the summer of 2012 when Cheap Thrills hit the streets, I began twisting my Hallman MBC for increased boost :oogle: Well most of you know the result...addiction to boost, and the desire for MORE :nod:

Unfortunately, compressor stall happens. Here is a referenced thread with the dinky details of my introduction to this phenomenon:

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=263667

I realized I had made a mistake in my turbo planning (but then I'm new at this :-D) ....when I upgraded to the old school Garrett T3, I had no bypass or "recirculation" valve for occasions where the throttle slams shut and 16 psi hits a brick wall. Well it was clear that corrective actions were necessary.

After consulting with the 7/9 brothers here, it appear that several had run the Garretts with either the old Pierburg valve, or had retro'd another recirc. valve. Many are available, but which one? Well FORGE had excellent feedback here and in various turbo applications, so I settled on that. Others know all too well that LH2.4 requires a CBV for optimum engine management.

A suggestion from a UK Bricker intrigued me....he fitted his 9 series with the old 740/760T Garrett hot side pipe which has the 28mm port to feed a CBV for recirculation and avoidance of the dreaded surge. Would it fit my 9 series? Based on other TBers, indeed it does. Thanks Crag! :-P

Well FCP Groton provided the first piece, the suction inlet hose between the AMM exit and my T3 inlet. I ordered the 7 series part.....and albeit a little tight (had to stretch it a bit to the AMM exit vertically), but it fit, just like this:

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I was concerned about the PS belt cutting the recirc. hose, but it clears with some breathing room:

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In my (vast) hoarded collection of Volvo turbo parts, I'd picked up a factory FMIC and piping from a guy who tried to install on his Ford 2.3 Turbo...and gave up, selling it on CL for $25 for the whole setup. I thought wait a minute, I've got the right hot side pipe already! Cleaned her up and she fit the T3 perfectly:

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Well I needed the balance of the hot side pipe to the stock FMIC. So I measured out the length of the 760T pipe and cutoff one of my stock 9 series pipes to makeup the rest of the system. Took it to my buddy the machinist to see if he could weld an aluminum bead for hose clamp retention.....but we had a hell of a time getting the paint to remove (OE paint, hell for stout). I wanted to wire wheel off the paint/sandblast, but both would leave the surface improper for aluminum welding (in his opinion). I finally decided to forgo the hose clamp stop lip and just sandblast the surface for increased bite of my rubber coupling...which I had yet to source. Measuring the Volvo 760T pipe showed it was 52mm OD, and the small port for recirculation was 28mm OD. A quick Google search and I find HPS, maker of such custom couplings and hoses. They sell nice 52mm x 4 inch couplers for that very purpose (Amazon.com). I also bought a 28mm ID hose, 4 ply turbo boost duty rated, in a 12 inch length. I knew it would require cutoff (ended up shortening to 8.5 inches long) to connect the FORGE valve to the hotside boost source pipe.

All that said, here is my cutoff hot side pipe, post blasting for non-slip grip:

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Grabbed some nice new ABA clamps (Swedish, of course) and we've got a custom hot side pipe:

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I went double clamps for twice the holding power.....if my calculations are right, the joint will see around 60 lbs. force under 16 PSI with a 50mm ID section pipe (make your own calcs. & check me, please). I torqued those ABA clamps with my 1/4 drive ratchet & 7mm socket until they went "solid"....no more squirm of those 4 ply coupling & hose.

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FORGE has a good rep, builds a good product. I found this FMCL007P on fleaBay for $99 shipped to the door. My favorite color, black! Came fitted with the green spring, good for 5~15 PSI. Here she is installed:

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Well here is where it gets a bit tricky.....FORGE has 1" ports on their valves (25.4 MM), and the 760T pipe was 28mm. I decided to go with a 28mm HPS hose, and clamp her down onto the FORGE connection, as opposed to buying a 25mm HPS hose and stretching it over the 28mm connection on the hot pipe (the later might have worked, but I've hit that wall before trying to stretch a reinforced hose over bigger fittings). I put the 28mm hose into position and measured twice, then cut once to 8.5 inch OAL. I think it came out "just right".......take a look:

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Last, I needed the signal line from the intake, so when vacuum is sensed the CBV is open....and conversely under boost she stays closed. This hose with reinforced braided jacket and pretty damn heavy wall, is available by the foot from FCP. I want to say it was 5/32 hose, but don't quote me. It fit perfect on the FORGE valve and also at the intake manifold hose barb; both also fitted with the mini steel spring clamps to keep that signal hose connected properly. I even recycled one of the Volvo black plastic tie straps (used on the firewall to tie up hoses/wires) to attach the signal hose, clean and functional:

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Installed and torqued all clamps.....let her sit overnight and run the torque once more, GOOD to GO. The only thing left to do was a "wet test" as we say in the biz.....turn the HALLMAN MBC up a turn, and load test.

:cool:

16 PSI again on my boost gauge, no annoying "turkey gobble" compressor surge, and smooth power. Mission accomplished.
 
I think the only way to see if it REALLY works is to turn it up even more. Jus' sayin'.

Could not run more than 12 PSI with the old setup & stall occurred. I might go 17~18 but that is the limit (self imposed) on my stock FMIC. That and I'm probably almost out of injector right now :x:
 
Could not run more than 12 PSI with the old setup & stall occurred. I might go 17~18 but that is the limit (self imposed) on my stock FMIC. That and I'm probably almost out of injector right now :x:

A little surprised that you haven't isntalled a bigger intercooler yet. The upgrade will really surprise you.

don't push it old' skool, don't let it get the best of you.

+1
 
harribert said:
"A little surprised that you haven't installed a bigger intercooler yet. The upgrade will really surprise you."

I bet it would. I'd love to have temp data across the FMIC, hot side inlet vs. "cooled exit" to see what Delta T the old ones get. Per Anthony Hyde, they actually do a decent job for one pass (20 seconds max I think per his tests) until you heat soak it good....then it's worthless. I needs my AC down here in the hot & humid SE states, as I'm old and wimpy and used to the luxury of the 9 series DD....heated electric seat and chillin' AC in the summer :cool:. A couple of the 7/9 threads I've inspected with upgraded FMICs have pretty well butchered the core support and tossed their AC systems (PNW guys typically, who cares about AC?). I'm not doing without, done it toooo many years. Find one that is a bolt in and doesn't require $500 worth of custom pipes, and I'll listen.

Future -Getrag 5 speed, LSD LH2.4 rear with 3.31, and "maybe" a streetable 16V engine (R&D for the future 242 build), and for sure then I'll upgrade to an NPR, etc.
 
I bet it would. I'd love to have temp data across the FMIC, hot side inlet vs. "cooled exit" to see what Delta T the old ones get. Per Anthony Hyde, they actually do a decent job for one pass (20 seconds max I think per his tests) until you heat soak it good....then it's worthless. I needs my AC down here in the hot & humid SE states, as I'm old and wimpy and used to the luxury of the 9 series DD....heated electric seat and chillin' AC in the summer :cool:. A couple of the 7/9 threads I've inspected with upgraded FMICs have pretty well butchered the core support and tossed their AC systems (PNW guys typically, who cares about AC?). I'm not doing without, done it toooo many years. Find one that is a bolt in and doesn't require $500 worth of custom pipes, and I'll listen.

Future -Getrag 5 speed, LSD LH2.4 rear with 3.31, and "maybe" a streetable 16V engine (R&D for the future 242 build), and for sure then I'll upgrade to an NPR, etc.

Indeed. I kept my AC when I installed my Evo 9 intercooler. Needed some massaging (read: savagely beating on the passenger side end tank) to get it to fit. Also, I needed to push the AC matrix about 1/2" forward. Wedged it against the mounting point for the diagonal top core support bracket, made a couple L-brackets out of the bottom core support, and hung the intercooler from the top of that. It's ugly, but secure and well-hidden. Your other option is to hang an intercooler way low and up front of the cooling package, with piping running through holes punched through the headlight support panels.

As for the Getrag...have you ever driven an E28? Loud transmissions with very notchy engagement. If you play your cards right you can get a hold of a nice M90 for roughly the same amount of money as the 265. Much better tranny for a daily driver in my opinion. As for LSD, the two most convenient options are a 912A588 Truetrac, or modding a G80 by adding clutch packs and removing the governor spring and pawl.
 
As for the Getrag...have you ever driven an E28? Loud transmissions with very notchy engagement. If you play your cards right you can get a hold of a nice M90 for roughly the same amount of money as the 265. Much better tranny for a daily driver in my opinion. As for LSD, the two most convenient options are a 912A588 Truetrac, or modding a G80 by adding clutch packs and removing the governor spring and pawl.

I already have both the Getrag 265 and the LSD (factory 91 7 series LH2.4). I won't know about either until installation and testing. I know fo sho the factory LSD won't take too many burnouts & shock loads. Never drove/shifted a Getrag, yet. From my trans. calculator spreadsheet, the Getrag and 3.31 final gear is almost a dead match for the T5 3.55 first gear trannys with a 3.73 final. Time will tell....... but where does one find a M90 in the states? Never offered in North America, correct?
 
Nope. The trick is to get one of our European cohorts to crate one up with all the ancillaries. Last I heard, getting one shipped over runs about $1200. This is super secret, but I saw that Tasca has them listed on inventory for about $2300 shipped :oogle:

As for the LSD: score!! I know that the Swedes sell upgraded cross shafts and clutches for them. Can't remember which retailer off the top of my head, sadly.
 
Nope. The trick is to get one of our European cohorts to crate one up with all the ancillaries. Last I heard, getting one shipped over runs about $1200. This is super secret, but I saw that Tasca has them listed on inventory for about $2300 shipped :oogle:

As for the LSD: score!! I know that the Swedes sell upgraded cross shafts and clutches for them. Can't remember which retailer off the top of my head, sadly.

I don't see myself dropping another $2K into a trans for Cheap Thrills......I thought the M90 was basically a Getrag with some enhancements perhaps. I know Hans in Ireland has one in his 97 900 "Classic" I think it is. When he gave me the gearing ratio, it matched the 265 closely, almost dead nuts same.

Regarding the LSD cross shafts, I think Towery knows the source as he has broke some of them. When you look up the torque ratings in Anthony Hyde's Volvo world, they really aren't rated very highly for capacity. When I build the 16V "daily driver" engine, I might have to have one of the Detroit Locker TrueTrac 588 you mentioned....$500 at Summit. I'll refrain from burnouts & gear banging, and hopefully the OE LSD will survive (low miles unit).

Regarding the notchy Getrag, I've also read they are sensitive to the type of lube. Seems Cameron went thru that trouble with his old black 16V wagon, and I seem to recall a lube change (Synthetic red line ?) solved that issue.

I'm not starting the Getrag 5 speed conversion until next winter.....need a breather from the last year's efforts and now I've got a convertible SAAB 900T scattered all of the shop (wifemobile) which must have the automatic replaced with a 5 speed........:grrr:
 
FWIW - I think the front/rear ride height is perfect.

And I know this is true - "Nothing, nor anyone, gets the best of me." when things like this are going on - "I've got a convertible SAAB 900T scattered all of the shop (wifemobile) which must have the automatic replaced with a 5 speed." :cool:
 
FWIW - I think the front/rear ride height is perfect.

And I know this is true - "Nothing, nor anyone, gets the best of me." when things like this are going on - "I've got a convertible SAAB 900T scattered all of the shop (wifemobile) which must have the automatic replaced with a 5 speed." :cool:

Thanks Michael, I think the rake is just right. I will be removing my 32mm rear wheel spacers and replacing with H&R 25's all around. I'll hold the Gils Racing setup for my 242 if I ever want to run FWD wheels on it. I hammered the pee out of those rear fender lips and they still rub on RR crossings....so I ain't fighting that battle any more :help: Know when to hold 'em.....

That SAAB drop top is the last one I'll ever own....got 2 more jSAABs in the driveway waiting to sell. If it were not a convertible, I wouldn't bother as the 5 speed conversion is a PITA. But cruising that thing topless on the BRPW is soooooo sweet, I've just got to save it.

Remember, I officially gave up my SAAB addiction.....for this!
 
I'm not starting the Getrag 5 speed conversion until next winter.....need a breather from the last year's efforts and now I've got a convertible SAAB 900T scattered all of the shop (wifemobile) which must have the automatic replaced with a 5 speed........:grrr:

Always wanted a yellow 900 SPG convertble :drool:

Sucks about the conversion, though. If it makes you feel any better I can't get mine to drive our brand new Honda because it's got a manual trans :grrr:
 
Always wanted a yellow 900 SPG convertble :drool:

Our 900T is white....seems I have an unnatural attraction to white cars. My favorite SAAB paint is Beryl Green, but they are rare as hen's teeth. Luckily my SO learned to drive a stick, so no worries. Heck, she jumped in my son's 81 244 M46 and drove it right up my hill driveway:nod: An amazing female.
 
Regarding the notchy Getrag, I've also read they are sensitive to the type of lube. Seems Cameron went thru that trouble with his old black 16V wagon, and I seem to recall a lube change (Synthetic red line ?) solved that issue.

I'm not starting the Getrag 5 speed conversion until next winter.....need a breather from the last year's efforts.....

Welll I'm mid-stream on my SAAB 900 Convert. project...ready to join my 91 2.0L Turbo engine to the donor 5 speed. Add to that it's tax season, and I'm slugging it out with TURBOTAX PREMIER for the first time. Needless to say, nothing is happening on Cheap Thrills.

A follow-up comment on the Getrag. Chatted with Cameron, and he says the one he had in his flat black wagon was smooth as could be, no notchey shifting, no problems. He also ran one of the RSI shifter bases and said it worked perfect.

The other day I was driving home from work, got into the boost a bit and lifted.....and I heard the FORGE 007 valve recirculating. The first time I thought "what the hell is it now?"......now I just grin :-D
 
Oops, another couple things while I'm here:

1. My heater core continues to leak....fogging up my windows on those cold frosty morns. I've read up on that repair, and while the pro wrenches can bust it out in 3 hours, us amateurs will need more like 8~12 for the first one. Temps are rising, and JUST MAYBE I can shut it down soon enough to avoid the continual coolant losses. I've also bought one of the NAPA 4 port heater control vavles that Gsellar discovered (I will link that thread - edit future) so the HC is completely bypassed when you don't call for heat, but the rear water passage off the 8V head will always flow back to the suction side pipe & waterpump. Gary did a nice job of discovery and proof of the temp stabilization in the 8V heads with this improvement. A future segment to this thread.

2. Bought another pair of Gil Racing 25mm spacers from aplitz while he was purging his auto-X project 240 last month. Cleaned them up (chased the 1/2-20 studs and wet sanded the back side; some aluminum "bulge" was evident at the thru holes beneath the M12 studs - either overtorqued or driven like hell I guess). I've removed the original 32mm rears & then installed these 25's last weekend and I'm wet testing at my local RR crossing to see how much relief the additional 7mm is giving me. I can live with an occasional scrub but don't want to be fretting about shredding my new NITTO rubber. I really don't want to have to rent one of those fender lip benders, but I may be forced to in order to stop the scrubbing. I've already cracked the paint in the lips of the RR, but I do want this issue GONE so I can close the books on the tires/wheel upgrade to the PROPUS. My adjustable PH bar is centered within 1mm as near as I can measure, so there is nothing left to gain there.....just a bit more clearance, Clarence.

Edit - I snapped a pic of the 25mm Gils Racing spacers, comparing them to the old 32's. Here there are. Now installed, and I almost never hit a rear tire on the fender lip. All around in Cheap Thrills, I've got 43-25= 18 ET net. I sure don't recommend anything more outboard of this.....actually if I did it again, I would shop for a set of 20mm spacers all around. Here's a couple pics for the record:

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Alternator upgrade with poly bushings - anti SQUEAL

Well it's time for a Project CHEAP THRILLS update. She's been my DD now for almost a year, and has yet to leave me walking. I only drive 15 miles daily for the work trip, so I've only put about 4K on the beast since it hit the streets in July 2012.

When I restored/modified the power plant, one item which was left "stock" was the accessory drive mounts. I just bought 7 pcs. of the FCP Groton OE "replacement" rubber mounts. I thought those would be sufficient for startup and debug. Well after about 6 months, I began to get some random "belt squeal" from under the hood....annoying to say the least. I checked for tension, and while the belts felt OK, with a pull on the ALT. V-belt I could easily move the alternator. I had salvaged some OE VOLVO belts for AC and PS, but had to use a CONTI belt for the alternator. Here is how it looks in the area of concern, as built:

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Early morning starts and drives out of the neighborhood were annoying to say the least, as the belts would squeal for a couple blocks......added load on the electrical system due to defrost, seat heaters, etc. etc. Something had to be done!

Well, I knew the marshmallow FCP mounts had to go to get the belt squeal resolved. I also suspected the CONTI belt wasn't helping things any. I've had really good luck with NAPA belts, second only to VOLVO belts in my experience. Finally, I stumbled onto an eBay auction for a low mile BOSCH factory reman. alternator....from the looks of it the unit could not have been a year in service. These BOSCH units sticker for $200+.....and I scored it for $50 shipped! :-D

Here are the upgrade parts, ready to install:

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You can clearly see the BOSCH part# here:

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Well after collecting the parts, I began shopping for some POLY accessory bushings. Damn things are expensive! Then I remembered that in my vast mountain of Volvo junk...I had a 740 accessory mount with bushings installed :nod: Pulled them out, in excellent condition. Not SuperPro, but a nice quality bush just the same.....and I had 3 of them, just enough for the ALT. job.

Cleared my garage for a Saturday morning (no SAAB work, thankfully), determined to get this done. A pair of 12mm and 13mm ratchet wrenches make for quick wrenching:

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Once the old 130K mile ALT. is removed and unwired, I remove the old marshmallow rubber FCP bushings, and install the poly bushings:

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A little bit of bubble-soap (those little sink dispensers work great for this), a C-clamp and socket/washers, and they press right in. I don't recommend channel locks....you will cut the poly.

I made a lucky find while I was into this ALT. upgrade.....I had heard an occasional squeaking from the AC belt, but it was somewhat random. The AC compressor is contained with 4 of the same size bushings. While the ALT. was out, I noticed that one of the top bolts fixing the compressor was gone :wtf: I torqued them when installing, but did NOT use any blue loctite. Well, while I had it opened up, both top bolts/nuts were loctited into position so that won't happen again. For the record, the AC compressor felt pretty secure in the 4 mount setup with the FCP rubber....so it stays, for now.

Here is the finished upgrade.....startup confirms I've got 14 VDC at the battery posts:

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Electrical connections on the back side; don't forget the plastic cover the big RED cable:

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Fired that mother up.....and not a squeak to be heard! I put the proper tension on my alternator belt (a long span, easy to OVER tension), and I'll try to check in a couple weeks to confirm belt tension is still proper. No power adder, nothing sexy, but reliable operation without annoying squealing belts (that wake the wifey) is a joy forever.
 
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